Crush-Through on Bar Mace and Long Iron Mace

[Ganon]

Well then i have to agree with cmp, mauls and mallets are ok, my fear was that you were going to remove CT totally, which apparently isn't going to happen and i'm glad i didn't heirloom it. Maybe i'll heirloom a great maul or a mallet, very slow, short weapons, nobody can complain about.

[Heroin]

Ok.
It doesn't make sense from a balance point of view, it's a very powerful mechanic that has no place whatsoever on weapons with 90+ speed / 80+ length.
It doesn't make sense from a realism point of view, especially with a shape/distribution of weight like the Bar Mace.
Therefore, it doesn't make any sense -> removed.

If changing the crush-through calculation and mechanics was possible, we could have found another solution. Unfortunately, it's not.

And what about the long iron mace? It's shape/distribution is like a longer, thinner version of the great maul. Crush does make sense on it.

Regarding point 2, the crush mechanics ARE able to be manipulated, simply by altering the weight of the weapons which possess it. From all accounts that I've heard, a non-heirloomed bar mace/LIM does not crush through often, and is not OP. So why not simply take the additional weight away from the heirloomed items?

If your answer, in an official capacity, is really "Crushtrough gets removed, unbalanced doesn't, you don't get to change your heirlooms"  I've just lost a lot of faith in the development staff. When making sweeping balance changes that fundamentally alter the way things work for a particular class/build, almost all developers the world over offer the opportunity for individuals using said build to change to a different one without losing their time investment.

[Babelfish]

If your answer, in an official capacity, is really "Crushtrough gets removed, unbalanced doesn't, you don't get to change your heirlooms"  I've just lost a lot of faith in the development staff. When making sweeping balance changes that fundamentally alter the way things work for a particular class/build, almost all developers the world over offer the opportunity for individuals using said build to change to a different one without losing their time investment.

People knew that the barmace build was fubar, still they went for it. Should they be rewarded for being lame & retarded or should we all laugh at them when they lose their edge?

[Nemeth]

The kind of people that hierloomed their bar mace (or at least majority of them) would just use their free respec of hierlooms on another OP thing that will pop up. I couldn't care less about them.

[Konrax]

Is an axe with bonus against shields an option?

Then apparently all you highly skilled 2h guys can break shields and then we can see who can manual block still.

Or I guess only a mere bonus against shields isn't good enough?

Need to ignore the shield / parry completely?

[MountedRhader]

The kind of people that hierloomed their bar mace (or at least majority of them) would just use their free respec of hierlooms on another OP thing that will pop up. I couldn't care less about them.

Just like throwing hybrids. They flock to the most powerful thing at the time with no dignity or honor like piglets to the teat (lol). Don't get me wrong though.. I do not at all mind pure throwers. I DO mind throwing hybrids. EX. = 75-90 pts in throwing 70-80 pts in melee skill, or if they have 5 power throw + 5 power strike. 
No one can call me an op abuser.. I run around with a f****** dagger. 

[Heroin]

People knew that the barmace build was fubar, still they went for it. Should they be rewarded for being lame & retarded or should we all laugh at them when they lose their edge?

Some people may have heirloomed it without knowing that. As a matter of fact, in order for anyone to even KNOW that to begin with, SOMEONE had to heirloom it first. Taking a month of grinding away from a player for a developer screwup is simply not fair. A month, being an approximation of time it would take a casual player to heirloom something 3 times.

EDIT: Furthermore, it's not a reward, so much as simply getting what they have already earned. They put their time in to heirloom an item that had specified stats. Changing those stats should allow respec of the heirloom. I'm not advocating this only for these particular weapons, but for ANY and ALL weapons which are changed in a way that completely alters their role.

If the developers would allow something like this to pass unchecked, I'd likely leave the cRPG community. I don't want to be part of something in which the developers care so little for the time investment their players put into the game.

[Xant]

Some people may have heirloomed it without knowing that. As a matter of fact, in order for anyone to even KNOW that to begin with, SOMEONE had to heirloom it first. Taking a month of grinding away from a player for a developer screwup is simply not fair. A month, being an approximation of time it would take a casual player to heirloom something 3 times.

EDIT: Furthermore, it's not a reward, so much as simply getting what they have already earned. They put their time in to heirloom an item that had specified stats. Changing those stats should allow respec of the heirloom. I'm not advocating this only for these particular weapons, but for ANY and ALL weapons which are changed in a way that completely alters their role.

I'd agree with Heroin. Month+ of time investment down the drain if there's no respec option for heirlooms.

[bruce]

We need heirloom respec in general for us undecisive people anyway. 

[Furax]

I sold my masterwork german sword at start after big patch because upkeep was broken=/ can I have it back?

[Ganon]

I sold my masterwork german sword at start after big patch because upkeep was broken=/ can I have it back?

If you retire 3 more times

[Brutal]

I'd agree with Heroin. Month+ of time investment down the drain if there's no respec option for heirlooms.

I'd agree too if every weapon was changed, or animation, or something that involve a lot of people, respec would be necessary.
However for people that heirloomed a weapon cuz they knew it was broken, i say "bah screw them".

They can always wait and try to trade it once it is possible.

[Memento_Mori]

Err wut?

So...
Suddenly a 3rd gen Bar Mace is useless entirely because it loses it's crush through ability? Shut up, get the hell out of here.

Heirlooms should be perm, that's my theory.
You don't inherit something from your Grandpa then years later decide that you would have rather inherited something other than what you got. Plainly said, fuck off.

+ as stated earlier, all these bar mace users would just go to the next big OP thing, they don't care they just want easy kills, let them suffer with their 'useless' maces.

Pretty sure 3rd gen Bar mace is 39 blunt damage, if you consider that weapon useless then, well I don't know what to say about that.

[Xant]

You don't inherit something from your Grandpa then years later decide that you would have rather inherited something other than what you got. Plainly said, fuck off.

Yeah because when you inherit something from your grandpa it suddenly loses abilities overnight.

[Babelfish]

Some people may have heirloomed it without knowing that. As a matter of fact, in order for anyone to even KNOW that to begin with, SOMEONE had to heirloom it first. Taking a month of grinding away from a player for a developer screwup is simply not fair. A month, being an approximation of time it would take a casual player to heirloom something 3 times.

EDIT: Furthermore, it's not a reward, so much as simply getting what they have already earned. They put their time in to heirloom an item that had specified stats. Changing those stats should allow respec of the heirloom. I'm not advocating this only for these particular weapons, but for ANY and ALL weapons which are changed in a way that completely alters their role.

If the developers would allow something like this to pass unchecked, I'd likely leave the cRPG community. I don't want to be part of something in which the developers care so little for the time investment their players put into the game.

QQ moar, this is beta mod, do you think developers refunded anything in the big titles, during their beta? Though luck.

The two first loomed barmace users where daymun & banok. True they probably wouldnt have known how broken it would turn out, but if they looked the at file, they could have gotten a hunch.

Last but not least, you are forgetting that we recently got to repick our looms, lots of people picked barmace then, so take your 30days and stuff it. They knew it was broken, fix was inevitable, they still chose it.