Crush-Through on Bar Mace and Long Iron Mace

[Heroin]

DISCLAIMER: IF YOU ARE TOTALLY AGAINST CRUSH-THROUGH IN ANY FORM, PLEASE DO NOT LITTER THIS THREAD WITH YOUR COMMENTS. THERE ARE PLENTY OF THREADS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE FOR CRUSH-HATE. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

I have now heard from several posts that "the devs have confirmed that the bar mace and long iron mace are losing their crush-through in an upcoming patch."

Can a developer confirm this, or can anyone link to a post in which a developer confirms it?

If this is, in fact, the case, several things should be addressed.

First, taking crush-through away from a weapon that has it fundamentally changes the way that weapon works. The weapons speed/reach/damage/cost should be scrutinized to ensure that this loss does not make the weapon an invalid or inefficient choice.

Secondly, heirlooms take a significant amount of time to get. People heirloom items based on many things, but most of all based on the items stats and abilities. If you fundamentally change the way an item works, people who heirloomed those items should have those heirlooms refunded. (Before anyone says "they abused the heirloom/crush-through mechanic, let them suffer", understand that SOME people may have heirloomed before such mechanics were even known to be the case.)

Last, I would like to address the core issue here. The increase in damage and WEIGHT in particular with heirlooming is what I understand to be the problem, which results in these weapons crushing through with a regularity that was never intended. Why take away a core function of the item, rather than re-balance the heirlooms to ensure that they don't get 90% crush-through? It makes sense to me that you'd simply re-balance something to not be OP, rather than fundamentally alter the way the item works. But perhaps I'm missing something? Feel free to enlighten me.

DISCLAIMER: IF YOU ARE TOTALLY AGAINST CRUSH-THROUGH IN ANY FORM, PLEASE DO NOT LITTER THIS THREAD WITH YOUR COMMENTS. THERE ARE PLENTY OF THREADS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE FOR CRUSH-HATE. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

[Xant]

Several devs have said that barmace and long iron mace are losing crushthrough - look through cmpx's and/or fasader's latest posts.

[Cyclopsided]

True story. The only bar maces that crush through reliably are heirloomed ones which increase the weight. If you changed their heirloom progression that would go away.
Maybe just change their progression to the masterwork line? Idk.

[Heroin]

True story. The only bar maces that crush through reliably are heirloomed ones which increase the weight. If you changed their heirloom progression that would go away.

Right, this is my point. Also, I don't use a bar mace on any of my characters, FYI.

[Magikarp]

First of all, I think that nerfing the Morningstar made it a useless wep by removing crushtrough.

Secondly, only full strength character with at least 11 powerstrike reliably crush trough with heirloomed crustrough weapons!.

I really hope they don't remove it from cRPG, but just nerf it so that only strength based builds and heirloomed weapons can have a good chance of doing it.

[Zanthos]

First of all, I think that nerfing the Morningstar made it a useless wep by removing crushtrough.

I beg to differ.

[Ganon]

Not this again. Personally i think the argument has been discussed far too many times, and there are other more important issues like server lag, throwing imbalance and some weird hitboxes which disrupt the game experience way more and need to be addressed. I don't want the devs to think the main problem currently is crushtrough. If they remove ct from the entire mod just because a few peasants with small shields whine, just uninstall. It's what i would do, no whine no posts, nothing, they're free to patch as they please, if it makes the game unfun for me i am in turn free to leave.

[zagibu]

Do you always give up this easily, Ganon?

Anyway, I also think that rebalancing the longer CT weapons would be enough, without removing their crush-through flag entirely. Maybe CT maxchance should be below 50% no matter what. I never used a CT weapon yet, btw.

[Elmetiacos]

If they can't crushthrough, are they getting more damage as a compensation, so that people who have chosen to heirloom these weapons aren't just getting a Nelson from The Simpsons style "HAH HAH!"

[Magikarp]

I beg to differ.

There are much better weapons out there, morningstar was only useful as cav in the past or as crush trough weapon.

[balbaroth]

Not this again. Personally i think the argument has been discussed far too many times, and there are other more important issues like server lag, throwing imbalance and some weird hitboxes which disrupt the game experience way more and need to be addressed. I don't want the devs to think the main problem currently is crushtrough. If they remove ct from the entire mod just because a few peasants with small shields whine, just uninstall. It's what i would do, no whine no posts, nothing, they're free to patch as they please, if it makes the game unfun for me i am in turn free to leave.

why people think its only shielders that are fed up with that op crushthru ,  everyone shield or not cannot block a overhead  crushthru  , i support the 50% max crushthru , its all about balance.... a superior fighter have a obvious advantage using a 100% go thru crush overhead , 
1-block
2-overhead
3-profit

[Seawied]

Even 50% seems high. Item balance should encourage skill, not spamming (hate using that word, but it fits here) a single attack. Even if you block crush 50% of the time, there is no reason to use any other form of attack with long and fast weapons like these.

I think a reasonable 25% chance on a strength build character is a better figure to work with. The block-crush gives the weapon an edge over non CB weapons, but a CB weapon wielder still needs to practice strategic tactics like feinting.

[Zanthos]

There are much better weapons out there, morningstar was only useful as cav in the past or as crush trough weapon.

I'm pretty sure the 1 hit capability of 45 pierce against heavy armor makes it quite useful enough as it is. This, plus it breaks shields quickly... I'm finding it to be quite capable and far from useless. Feel free to ask anyone who gets hit by it.

[Gorath]

If they remove ct from the entire mod just because a few peasants with small shields whine,

Sorry, I use either a 2her, or polearm depending on my character.  No shield.  Crush through is bullshit.  It crushes through my chamber blocks, and THAT is completely retarded.

[Cyclopsided]

Lower the weight to 4 and change the heirlooms so they don't add more weight, but give them something else instead. Done without rendering them useless.
They won't be crushing through often at all then, and would only crush through for steroid users sometimes.