Plate Armour = Bad value for money = Obsolete?

[Murmillus_Prime]

I wore plate for 2 reasons before the patch.
a) i liked the way it looked
b) less damage from ranged fire.

the amount of protection given by plate was never that high.
The simple matter was people who could afford plate had been playing for longer and were thus more seasoned players.
Thats why everyone went OMG PLATE SO OP because they made the wrong connection.
But I agree, for the current cost, plate aint worth it. Not to mention how goddam slow it makes you.

As mentioned earlier, some players with heavy armour take many powerful hits from players with, 5-7ps and +2-+3 weapons with 130-150wpf, where as most players with heavy armour die in 2-3 hits, I'm not sure how some plated players can take repeated overhead strikes and survive as when somone with a 2h does the same to me, half my life is usually taken in the first strike and the rest on the second.

Maybe there's more +2-+3 armours out there than I thought, and maybe they add more protection than I give credit for, I've never heirloomed armour as of yet so I can't say I'm clued up on how heirlooming armour would affect it.

[Bobthehero]

Str build, you wouldnt beleive the number of hits needed to kill me with 29 str while I can kill platers in 2-3 with a 1 handed sword

[Casimir]

Yes but str builds max at around 120 - 130 wpf, are slow, easy targets for any kind of ranged or cav. Trust me 3x heirloomed plate pure str meant i was a tank. But these days its not so feasible so given up. Plate is nice with 0IF i can still take a 2 sometimes 3 hits when fighting which is good. Other than that i'd say it is quite weak for the amount you pay out. Maybe increase the weight of it so it nerfs WPF more but increase the resistance it gives. E.g. make bounces more likely.

[Gorath]

Yes but str builds max at around 120 - 130 wpf, are slow, easy targets for any kind of ranged or cav. Trust me 3x heirloomed plate pure str meant i was a tank. But these days its not so feasible so given up. Plate is nice with 0IF i can still take a 2 sometimes 3 hits when fighting which is good. Other than that i'd say it is quite weak for the amount you pay out. Maybe increase the weight of it so it nerfs WPF more but increase the resistance it gives. E.g. make bounces more likely.

I have 130 wpf on all my hybrids and it's more than enough for melee fighting.

Increasing the weight to nerf wpf and speed more while increasing resistances would be a good tradeoff imo.

[Casimir]

Same ivw got 120+ pole & 100 throw atm. Ultimate anti cav cavalry. 

Pure str devoids you of the effect of athletics which by increasing you ability to footwork makes you faster in fighting.

Anyhow the best solution to plate is to either lower repar cost. 1.5k for millanese is abit ott for what it is. Or increase its resistance and weight.

Or just pretend its fine and leave it. I wander what will happen...

[Patricia]

Same ivw got 120+ pole & 100 throw atm. Ultimate anti cav cavalry. 

Pure str devoids you of the effect of athletics which by increasing you ability to footwork makes you faster in fighting.

Anyhow the best solution to plate is to either lower repar cost. 1.5k for millanese is abit ott for what it is. Or increase its resistance and weight.

Or just pretend its fine and leave it. I wander what will happen...

They added the upkeep specifically to reduce plate wearers, so I REALLY doubt they'll lower the repair cost.

[Rextard]

I think armor should count as damage reduction from every hit, not like a set of spare hp that takes damage before the set that determines your status as a living or dead toon. Also the heavier and more plated the armor the more it should have protection from slashing weapons.

[Ganon]

Lots of uninformed bs posts.

Plate currently does slow you down alot, and using plate armor on a map with hills = suicide because you come to almost a stop when climbing a hill in plate (which historically was lighter than full chain armor). It is useful on plain maps vs some agi stackers, and gives some protection vs arrows (depending on luck on the enemy damage roll). I rarely use it while my build should use it always but as i said, on hills i simply cannot walk anymore, and vs throwers or good 2h/pole it maybe lets you survive 1 more hit. Not a huge deal, while the upkeep is crazy high and should be tuned down to something more fair.

[ThePoopy]

increase effectivity and upkeep on high tier armors

[Leesin]

I think armor should count as damage reduction from every hit, not like a set of spare hp that takes damage before the set that determines your status as a living or dead toon. Also the heavier and more plated the armor the more it should have protection from slashing weapons.

I'm pretty sure it does, armour does not act like HP. There is a formula for damage, different for cutting, blunt and piercing, cutting is the least effective against armour, it is more likely to glance and penetrates armour less effectively than the other types. I think blunt glances less than pierce, but pierce penetrates more armour, losing less damage to the reduction factor. Overall pierce is the best vs armour where the formula is concerned, but blunt weapons usually benefit from things like knockdown and crushthrough.

There is a randomization to damage too, meaning one full swing might glance off the armour because it didn't do enough damage to make it through the armour, but the next swing might do near max damage your skills/weapon allow you to do, delivering damage to the enemy. Though high powerstrike means alot less glancing with all weapons.

A problem IMO has always been that even though cut weapons are the least effective against armour in terms of the formula, they always have the higher raw damages, meaning that a 40 cut weapon is going to be as effective against armour as a 30 blunt weapon when you factor power strike into it. The immense amount of raw damage the cut weapons get from power strike % bonus means it makes the armour formula vs cutting ineffective, they are just more likely to glance if the swing is started too close to the enemy. That's just how I see it anyway.

[Murmillus_Prime]

I'm pretty sure it does, armour does not act like HP. There is a formula for damage, different for cutting, blunt and piercing, cutting is the least effective against armour, it is more likely to glance and penetrates armour less effectively than the other types. I think blunt glances less than pierce, but pierce penetrates more armour, losing less damage to the reduction factor. Overall pierce is the best vs armour where the formula is concerned, but blunt weapons usually benefit from things like knockdown and crushthrough.

There is a randomization to damage too, meaning one full swing might glance off the armour because it didn't do enough damage to make it through the armour, but the next swing might do near max damage your skills/weapon allow you to do, delivering damage to the enemy. Though high powerstrike means alot less glancing with all weapons.

A problem IMO has always been that even though cut weapons are the least effective against armour in terms of the formula, they always have the higher raw damages, meaning that a 40 cut weapon is going to be as effective against armour as a 30 blunt weapon when you factor power strike into it. The immense amount of raw damage the cut weapons get from power strike % bonus means it makes the armour formula vs cutting ineffective, they are just more likely to glance if the swing is started too close to the enemy. That's just how I see it anyway.

+1

Spamtanas and other cutting weapons are usually why I die in full plate armour, which I think is wrong. Aren't there super crush weapons like the maul to deal with full plate chars? Yet the maul users arent really needed since cut weapons kill plate fine anyway.. even though I think they should have a tougher time vs plate...

[Memento_Mori]

+1

Spamtanas and other cutting weapons are usually why I die in full plate armour, which I think is wrong. Aren't there super crush weapons like the maul to deal with full plate chars? Yet the maul users arent really needed since cut weapons kill plate fine anyway.. even though I think they should have a tougher time vs plate...

My last build with my masterwork 'SPAM'tana & 7 PS cut down tin cans after a few good swings usually because of their incompetence to block overheads.

is that wrong?

anyways.. I've decided that I will agree with you IF they remake the morningstar and spiked mace to be sheathed where a daggar would go :3 just so I can deal with the tin cans and their better armor & still maintain looking awesome what do you think?

[Ganon]

My last build with my masterwork 'SPAM'tana & 7 PS cut down tin cans after a few good swings usually because of their incompetence to block overheads.

is that wrong?

anyways.. I've decided that I will agree with you IF they remake the morningstar and spiked mace to be sheathed where a daggar would go :3 just so I can deal with the tin cans and their better armor & still maintain looking awesome what do you think?

If they fail to block overheads it's the helmet armor that counts if your hit is perfect, nothing wrong there. If you hit the body instead it should take 5-7 swings with a katana not 2 to kill a tincan. You're also right if tincans are buffed there will be a proper use for anti-armor weapons like blunt and piercing, which currently make little to no sense since cutting weapons can do the same damage to plate without the drawbacks.

[Punisher]

The problem with plate is that with the WPF cap you are slow as shit if you wear full plate, so unless you are a STR build it isn't really worth it. Pre-patch I used to wear plate because I had 220 WPF. Now I never wear anything heavier than Banded Armor, it just slows you down too much for little benefit.

[Kafein]

I don't thin we should make plate armors even more "special" and rare, by increasing their effectivity and upkeep.

I'm not taking realism into account here, but I don't like the idea of suddenly, because you want to spend money on this round, you can have an unfair advantage over others by having a better gear once. Currently, plate offers more advantage than pre patch, but it's still manageable to kill plated people. But if we buff it, light armored rich people will complain and ask for an increase in upkeep, which is absolutlely not what players really interested in plate want.

So I would be for :

More balancing of cheap and expensive items
Less upkeep

For gameplay sake, I don't think it's good you can "choose" wether you will have a big advantage or not, simply by spending money (which is alas there for this only purpose) on a round when others did not. This is decreasing the skill factor, and make the game more like a "strategic planning" game. A change i that direction would also fix the idiotic cloth-plate-cloth-plate-cloth-plate cycle of some players, being (for some) allmost useless, then completely imba. "To have more gold, just stick with the +3 plated charger black armored guy", "ho damn, this turn he'll be an useless leech" that's not really and enjoyable, realistic or immersive game...