Plate Armour = Bad value for money = Obsolete?

[Murmillus_Prime]

Since all these patches in the last couple of months, heavy plate armour wearing amongst the general EU population has almost become extinct.

People generally tend to blame it on the upkeep system and how it's crippling anyone who chooses to wear plate, even for short amounts of time. So here I am with 5 IF, I die from 1-3 hits most of the time and that's in light armours like mail shirt, with kettle helmet and mail gauntlets and splinted greaves.

Dying in 1 hit pisses most people off, dying in 2 is almost as bad, especially from what appear to be light weapons like 1hers and basic spears. What's worse given the recent trend of throwing weapon use means that you end up dying in 1-2 throwing axes or javelins ect.. So you'd think the solution would be to wear heavier armour right?

So I throw on milanese sallet, gothic plate with bevor, plate mittens and cased greaves, walk out of spawn next round feeling like robocop.... Only I get slashed to half my hp from a cleaver at the start, knocked to almost 0 hp by a second slash this time by a sidesword or something and then finished off by a throwing axe. So I died in 3 hits, in full plate armour.

I know it depends on who hit you, where they hit you and their level but I'm level 30, I've got 5 IF I know that's not amazing but it's not as if I'm going around using this armour without using IF atall, and this has happened loads of times. So we've got this expensive plate armour, that's expensive to upkeep, slows you down to a turtles crawl and STILL, you die in 1-3 hits often.

I don't like pure str chars and I know I'd survive more if I just pumped STR, but since most of my builds have been balanced or near balanced in agi and str then does this mean that unless your a pure STR char plate armour is worthless? If so then doesn't this plate armour need a buff? Shouldn't plate armour here at least in a small way act and behave like real life plate armour? I'm not saying 'HURR REALISM PATCH' but here plate might as well be chainmail, and there's a significant difference in the real world at least at the level of protection each provide and so I think the heaviest plate armours in this mod deserve a decent buff considering the speed penalties of the plate just make plate users walking pinatas for throwers and light weapon users alike.

Forking out stupid upkeep to become a slow walking target with very small benefits other than looking cool, isnt fun or fair.

[Xant]

purring mime it is mainly for the glance factor methinks good sir

[Kalam]

A) What you describe is due to the significant increase of strength builds, because, you know, it's the smart thing to do.

B) NA seems to have more plate armour wearers than you imply EU has. They tend to be able to use it constantly by maintaining a steady high multiplier average. With black armour, it appears they require 'light armour retirements' in between, where they use a build with light armour for one generation to save gold for the next.

C) Plate, to me, is primarily for avoiding getting easily killed by ranged fire and teamwork damage.

D) I'd be fine with raising the armour, but, at the same time, I feel that it would further encourage strength builds. I'd rather see balanced builds encouraged above all else.

[InqWiper]

I would like to see armour be more balanced by functionality rather than price. I would like to see heavy armour have more penalty to movement and even a bit to swing speed if possible. I think pro plate should be protection against most things in general but mainly light flying projectiles like arrows, bolts and daggers but still be fairly vulnerable to thrown axes and more vulnerable to throwing lances and jarids. I think con plane should be much more restricted running speed and somewhat affected striking speed.
This way plate would good in some situations like pushing in siege maps and less useful in other situations such as open field maps where they would just be dominated by more agile spearthrowers and cavalry. This in my opinion would also add more tactical elements to the game where you have to work together more to protect eachother helping different characters fulfil theire individual role unlike the way it is now where the plated 2hander just kind of dominates in general. I think price could still be a factor but at the moment its pretty much the only factor to consider when you chose to plate or not to plate as I see it.

I hope Im making sense, Im very tired :-)

[Dunecat]

My suggestion is to lower plate armour's weight and weight penalty (because most armours seem much lighter when worn, than when carried in a backpack / hands / etc., that especially true with gothic plate armour), and, perhaps, slightly increase the price to "balance" it.

[LordSnow]

I would like to see armour be more balanced by functionality rather than price. I would like to see heavy armour have more penalty to movement and even a bit to swing speed if possible. I think pro plate should be protection against most things in general but mainly light flying projectiles like arrows, bolts and daggers but still be fairly vulnerable to thrown axes and more vulnerable to throwing lances and jarids. I think con plane should be much more restricted running speed and somewhat affected striking speed.


I hope Im making sense, Im very tired :-)

How stupid are you?

During the middle age, plate armor was the best way to be protect  and MOVE fast on the battlefield. The weight was distributed among the different body parts and knight were able to run, jump, mount on a horse alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6IL2giKNN8&feature=related

Guys in plate armor were MUCH faster than a guy in full mail armor.

20kg ? This is less than the weight of modern combat gear of an infantry soldier (usually 25 to 35 kg), and the weight is more evenly distributed.

[DrKronic]

LOL @ B remember REPLACE "they" with "GORETOOTH" and B becomes TRUE instead of FALSE

My opinion is that plate was never worth it because of the weight to protection ratio compared to say elite or transitional armors

A) What you describe is due to the significant increase of strength builds, because, you know, it's the smart thing to do.

B) NA seems to have more plate armour wearers than you imply EU has. They tend to be able to use it constantly by maintaining a steady high multiplier average. With black armour, it appears they require 'light armour retirements' in between, where they use a build with light armour for one generation to save gold for the next.

C) Plate, to me, is primarily for avoiding getting easily killed by ranged fire and teamwork damage.

D) I'd be fine with raising the armour, but, at the same time, I feel that it would further encourage strength builds. I'd rather see balanced builds encouraged above all else.

[Kalam]

LOL @ B remember REPLACE "they" with "GORETOOTH" and B becomes TRUE instead of FALSE

My opinion is that plate was never worth it because of the weight to protection ratio compared to say elite or transitional armors

Linden uses Gothic, and Wallace uses transitional. One of the LLJK uses plate regularly, as does one of the Qc guys. Where 'plate' here is anything with 50 armour or above. There are more, but these are just the ones that I can mention off the bat.

[InqWiper]

How stupid are you?

During the middle age, plate armor was the best way to be protect  and MOVE fast on the battlefield. The weight was distributed among the different body parts and knight were able to run, jump, mount on a horse alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6IL2giKNN8&feature=related

Guys in plate armor were MUCH faster than a guy in full mail armor.

20kg ? This is less than the weight of modern combat gear of an infantry soldier (usually 25 to 35 kg), and the weight is more evenly distributed.

So a guy in full plate will not be slower and less agile than someone in light cloth? I never compared full plate and full mail, you made that comparison. Calling someone stupid before making yourself look like a fool only adds to your embarrasment.

[DrKronic]

Linden uses Gothic, and Wallace uses transitional. One of the LLJK uses plate regularly, as does one of the Qc guys. Where 'plate' here is anything with 50 armour or above. There are more, but these are just the ones that I can mention off the bat.

Ok if plate includes stuff over 50 then my elite armor counts as plate I wasn't considering anything under the cherboueg/gothic/milanese/black as "plate"

Still in  weight vs protect I still think transitional/elite is about the best weight to protect ratio (especially when u add cost in)

[Joxer]

This thread is so full of fail 

[UrLukur]

This thread is so full of fail 

+1

[Memento_Mori]

Plate works fine, if anything wearing plate should have some penalties to it.
Examples: running slower, swinging slower,

If these penalties were made noticeable then I may side with lowering the price a bit, but as it is right now, plate is a life saver in most situations, and wearing it is an advantage since there is hardly any penalty to choosing to wear it.
 
& sometimes you can get away without even paying upkeep :O .. Extreme luck is needed though.

[Michael]

This "plate is overpowered" crap came from two different sorts of people:

1) crpg noobs, that played for 2 hours and got frustrated that they couldnt do shit with their wooden stick and 2 ps against a "tincan"

2) agi whores with 9 str 3 ps no iron flesh no real armor that got one shotted by a tincan


Black Armor never worked for me.

My medium tincan build 18 str 6 iron flesh in black armor died in 1 throwing lance, 2 bolts, 2 poleaxe swings, 3 arrows, 4 (at best) 1h hits.

Whats the point in wearing armor when you die in 2 hits most of the time anyway.


My full str build 36 str 12 iron flesh could take a bit more, but rushing into the enemy and spamming a great axe gets boring after a few mins and thats all you can do with such a build.


I am doing better in Leather Jacket. For real!

I can kill (with my 8 power strike) in 1 or 2 hits (in battle enemies are usually already injured when I meet them), a fresh heavy armored I have never seen survive more than 2-3 hits from me, except those two Shogunate cheaters that are/ were clearly cheating by buffing somehow their chars hit points to about 700.

Its true. Armor doesnt give your char the protection it should.

I would change it like that: More protection, but also more weight to slow the movement speed down.
 

[Furax]

Its as it should be: You dont wanna block, you pay