Archery buff

[Patricia]

Try making an archer.Perfect accuracy and killing everyone with 1-2 shots is simply not possible.
ANd sure it wasn't a bolt?Many guys use crossbows too.

Nope, it was ploop who's an archer, also I DID make an archer, I have 90 prof and the accuracy is already nearly 100%, I already feel like I'm playing counter strike, all I'm missing is the levels to have a decent power draw for even MORE accuracy and more damage and I'm set to be an underpowered archer sniping peoples from 10 miles away 2 hitting everyone

[Cup1d]

Patricia, at this moment I have build with 10PD and 138 wpf in archery. Also I have masterwork warbow and sharp bodkins. When I shoot enemy in Elite series armor, it takes at least 5 arrows to kill them. Please, stop spreading bullshit.

[EponiCo]

After playing foot archer a bit I tend to agree with Joxer.
Archer duels are now practically a thing of impossibility. You shoot he dodges, he shoots you dodge. With higher shot speed an archer who can predict his opponents movement will prevail and it makes kind of sense to go shooting archers. But now, keep an eye on enemy archers and shoot infantry instead.

[Tears of Destiny]

Nope, it was ploop who's an archer, also I DID make an archer, I have 90 prof and the accuracy is already nearly 100%, I already feel like I'm playing counter strike, all I'm missing is the levels to have a decent power draw for even MORE accuracy and more damage and I'm set to be an underpowered archer sniping peoples from 10 miles away 2 hitting everyone

What bow are you using and what were your stats? I have a warbow with 10 power draw and 130-ish WP and my accuracy is anything but 100% unless I have some unaware groundpounder within 10 meters or some cav within 20 (which is rare).

[Joxer]

After playing foot archer a bit I tend to agree with Joxer.
Archer duels are now practically a thing of impossibility. You shoot he dodges, he shoots you dodge. With higher shot speed an archer who can predict his opponents movement will prevail and it makes kind of sense to go shooting archers. But now, keep an eye on enemy archers and shoot infantry instead.

Yeah back in my old days one of my favourite things was to be an anti-archer archer and I think I did ok in that role. Also I specialised in long range shooting and shooting of moving targets from a distance. I really felt like chadz did this nerf specifically to screw me over 

[Franklin]

At the end of the day I guess it comes down to what the majority wants.

If you want Fantasy Earth Zero without the magic BS then the archer is ok. 
He is an easy kill for the Cav and foot which polishes ego's and ups the kill count.  Two handers can charge around being lone wolves and hacking all asunder without much worry if they have the right armour.  Cavalry can charge around like nutters because being harrassed by arrows is more of the horses problem than theirs and its not much of one at that.
In short, if you like wandering around chopping shit up without having to worry about arrow fire, saving the poor sods until the end for easy kills then every thing is funky.  May your epeen grow shiny.

If on the other hand reasonable historical accuracy is your bag then the archer is frelled.  The whole point of the class is long ranged destruction forcing footmen to form shield walls which protect the spearmen and two handers who march behind.  Enemy archers are supposed to protect that wall with return fire until it closes with the enemy and mayhem breaks loose. 
If you have any cav worth their salt then they should at least attempt to flank to chop the bowmen up and disrupt the enemy wall.
Only a real tit of a two hander, spearman or horseman would charge head long into an arrow storm unprotected and such a f**kwit would deserve to die. 
Again, in short, deadly ranged fire forces group tactics and as it stands at the moment with the shit rate of fire and crap arrow speed/damage fewer people are playing the class for any length of time making it practically redundant as an effective part of the army.  Battles have no organisation or tactics which in open terrain is pooh.
Archers were feared and hated to such a degree that if captured they had two fingers cut off.  Where do you think sticking two fingers up comes from.

I am currently playing an archer and all I am doing is firing sticks at data ghosts or giving some unlucky sod a paper cut.  Its only because I am a stubborn sod that I am still playing it.

[Mattressi]

Frank, if realism was the goal, my feet wouldn't be getting shot through my board shield just because I'm not skilled with shields. The invisible wall of shields is a bit ridiculous, but worse is the immaterial model of the shields. If board shields could soak up more arrows and actually stop arrows where the model is, I'd have much less of an issue with archers.

[Franklin]

Frank, if realism was the goal, my feet wouldn't be getting shot through my board shield just because I'm not skilled with shields. The invisible wall of shields is a bit ridiculous, but worse is the immaterial model of the shields. If board shields could soak up more arrows and actually stop arrows where the model is, I'd have much less of an issue with archers.

Meh.  I'm not fussed either way.  I am a minority of one and the community as a whole will influence the game.  I was just saying that one method promotes an open brawl with no point to tactics, the other might just force people to play together or get pin cushioned.  Whats the point of all  the portable defenses if there is nothing to defend against?  Not to mention it making some map options such as bridgeheads pointless.
I personally prefer strategy and teamwork but thats just me

As an asides, In the game proper I built a unit of 40, the majority of whom were veteran archers.  The first time I encountered Lord Darcey Farqhar or whatever the hell his name was I got smegged as, much to my surprise, his army came forward in a block with shields raised.  My archers did feck all to his troops and when they got within range they charged and chopped me to pieces.
If the game can deal with fast bows and high arrow damage why cant humans?

[Grey]

Archers were feared and hated to such a degree that if captured they had two fingers cut off.  Where do you think sticking two fingers up comes from.

Common Misconception. It does NOT stem from that. But its a nice romantic story.


NOW: Im an archer. I come in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd most maps.

GONE are the archers I feared when I joined over a year ago. Gone is Birdman, and his balistic missiles. His kind seem to have passed from this world. Maybe they have gone on to the olden lands......

But archery is NOT like hitting someone. By level 15, as inf, you can easily achieve 2/1 ratio if your careful, take cover much, etc.

As archer, untill lvl 20 or so, your a weed at shooting. So to make a truly good archer, just use melees weapons untill 18 str. Then buy warbow. Its accurate, fires fast arrows, and kills anyone with headshot.  EDIT: REALLY good once 'loomed.

but hybridize your archer and you make him useless. at the VERY most you can afford to dumb 50 wpf into 1h or 2h (only very seriously insecure people use polearms, mechanic for them VERY broken, since original gamedev couple did not realise speed at small end of pivot is NOT equal to speed at long end of pivot, and therefor polearms swing at TRULY ridiculous speeds, grab one for easymode, but be warned, it gets boring being stupidly OP).

All rest of wpf must go into archery. At least 150. Once your there, grab some bodkins, lead your targets, and have fun being ragepolled for ruining everyone's day.

[Mattressi]

If the game can deal with fast bows and high arrow damage why cant humans?

Again, that'd be fine if the board shield would protect the areas it visually covers, regardless of shield skill. Otherwise, 2h/polearm have the choice of either dodging a LOT (and are screwed if their a hill or stairs) or using a shield and hoping that the enemy archers are crap and can't aim ('hoping the other team sucks' isn't exactly a great game mechanic).

But yeah, if somehow people could unite and create big shield walls, it'd be amazing; but it's not going to happen any time soon 

[Franklin]

True true.  But isn't the shield issue something that can be fixed?  It would be a shame if the bow was nerfed because the shields were pooh and not fit for purpose.    It sort of stuffs up a good chunk of what is fun about this kind of warfare.

What you are putting forward then, may be cause and effect insofar as since shields are borked, archers are nerfed to compensate.  Since archers suck on the open field very few players stick with it.  Since there are so few archers there is next to no requirement for team play and strategy....possibly 

[Grey]

Shield argument goes both ways, board shields some people consider too easy to shoot "around", while most round shields stop arrows to foot and face, even tho NEITHER is covered unless the shielder makes a conscious descision to do so.....

So, 2 things, I would like shields to cover everything they actually cover, and not a millimeter more, and:

I'd like to see a move towards what I am gonna call "balance", in that archery wpf is affected as follows:

Equip a polearm, archery wpf is HALVED.

Equip a shield, archery wpf is HALVED.

Any body armour above 5 weight reduces archery wpf as follows, X being armour weight: Final wpf = Original wpf - ( 4*x)

Equip any gloves other than leather, archery wpf is HALVED.

Any helmet with closed faceplate reduces archery wpf by 75%.

Any helmet over 1 weight, reduce archery wpf by 10*weight.

Boots over 1 weight, reduce archery wpf by 2*weight.

Equip any weapon over 2 weight, reduce archery wpf by 3*weight.

Any weapon that surpasses 2 weight and is hung on the BACK, reduces 4*weight.

Maybe crazy idea, but archers DO NOT use halberds, poleaxes, greatswords. Historically, the majority who were not specialist horse archers were lucky to get any weapon at all. (Obviously, these weight debuffs do not apply if a horse is carrying the weight for you.)


Im tired of archer being a ranged infantryman, and and even more tired of people saying shields need buffing.

The 2 REAL issues with the mod right now are: Throwing. Accuracy needs to be relative, so war darts, historically known for being a joke, SHOULD be a joke, and javelins need a buff in accuracy, but ALL of throwing needs a huge reload speed nerf. And throwing axes need fixing, the collision mesh AND the accuracy is a joke.

The other issue is crossbows. I have a char with all of wpf in 2h. All of it. I make LOADS of crossbow kills with it tho. This has needed no investment from me other than the money for the crossbow....

Crossbows breed shielders, are a investment free ranged option, and are stupidly accurate at 1 wpf. Remove them completely to make a better game, but since then rage from all the people who LIKE free kills will drown the forum....better just to nerf the accuracy massively, and have it depend on wpf, not be godgiven ability.

EDIT: Thought about this some more and tested with friends, from different angles today. All shields are stupidly overpowered vs ranged fire, stopping shots to the sides and back sometimes, often catching arrows and thrown weapons that are an ingame chars arms reach away. And bucklers.....well, shields should need conscious effort to stop ranged fire, not just hold rightmouse and walk....

[Franklin]

Playing a peasant last night... bored out of my mind so started dicking around with enemy archers.  They always aim for straw hats. 
Was on a desert map at the top of a hill with two enemy archers below taking pot shots.  They were far enough away so as not to make out their faces, but close enough to see the body movements. Went something along the lines of,

1) Watch archer anim.
2) Wait untill they stand and you can see their elbow.
3) Watch the arrow leave the bow
4) Side step one pace.
5)Rinse and repeat.

Eventually a two hander came up and snotted me in one shot because I couldn't be arsed running away or biffing him with my club.

The thing is, I was watching the arrows head towards me.  They would have hit if I hadnt moved, but I could see them coming.  If they had been any slower they would have been going backwards.  As archery goes that is just plain sad.

[Barracuda]

I can top score charts with an archer but it requires a certain play style. Most important thing is to stay alive as long as you can and shooting wounded enemies is the key. At the beginning of the round I usually pick out the least armored targets and fellow archers. Shooting in to the armored ones seems useless because with the current accuracy and arrow speed you can't even be sure you hit them.

I get a lot of "nice shot" messages when I shoot someone in the head but the truth is that those hits are just lucky. I don't specially aim for the head. Once heirloomed strong bow with 160 wpf isn't that accurate except in short ranges.

There also seems to be a myth about PD increasing accuracy. I have done some testing myself and I haven't noticed any difference using strong bow with 5 and 7 PD.

I agree with Grey above - something similar to his suggestion would be great.

[bruce]

but hybridize your archer and you make him useless

Meh, I went for 21 str, 7 PD & 7 PS, 100 polearm wpf, 130 archery wpf, accurate enough for mid-range shooting, kills everyone except the strongest tincan with a headshot, good damage at mid range (with my strongbow I did almost as much as a 6 PD warbow does, 14% bonus lol, except I could fire much faster), and rapes in melee with a long polearm. On, and with mail too, so you don't get onehit... but you onehit others with your melee weapon. I even thought about trying it without any archery wpf at all, but then I retired into a polearm+shield and then joined with Gnjus and his my old friend army which don't tolerate archers. But I bet it'd be reasonably effective too without any wpf, since 130 wpf with 7 PD and 20-ish total kg armour probably means I had close to zero wpf anyway.

Of course you can't run around like a my old friend, since most people are faster then you. You don't need to, however, unless there's a mob coming. Or throwers. But even shielders have to run from throwers in a mob.

Ofcourse, matter of preference. But regardless, unless you're a horse archer or something, 6 PD (or more) is the way to go, the damage is good, the accuracy is good, etc.

As for shields: round-type shields cover a lot more then model suggests, western-style shields cover jackshit.

Historically, the majority who were not specialist horse archers were lucky to get any weapon at all.

Sources?

I didn't think so.

The only reason NOT TO USE armour realistically (bar maybe plate and such) is that you couldn't afford it, and the only reason not to use the best melee weapon available was... you guess it, don't you. However, I would really like to find where people get the fanciful idea archers didn't have weapons.

If on the other hand reasonable historical accuracy is your bag then the archer is frelled.  The whole point of the class is long ranged destruction forcing footmen to form shield walls which protect the spearmen and two handers who march behind.  Enemy archers are supposed to protect that wall with return fire until it closes with the enemy and mayhem breaks loose.

Yes, in movies. With the advancement of armour, the type of shield which was most commonly used by footmen.... was the buckler. On the battlefield. Imagine. Larger shields were generally used by the less armoured people. (the buckler not being a battlefield shield is just a myth, really)


Anyway, if you want to see reasonable tactics... then you need to see reasonable maps. House to house fighting maps don't lend to tactics well. Open-type large maps do.