Fix 2h stab

[Zisa]

That's just the best Taleworlds could manage for hit boxes, this happened with the overheads before chadz put floor bouncing in.

What Kato said is essentially all I asked for, but maybe the poleaxes need to be brought in line too, since they are duel weapons which can break shields, they don't need an amazing stab too.

huh?
floor bouncing is overly punitive -  unless you like fighting on a slope and watching attacks go through people. And no, for FUCK's sake, dragging an overhead into an opponent is NOT gone - wtf class are you playing?

[CaptainQuantum]

It's still possible, but harder, not to mention useless in comparison with other techniques you could spend time learning instead since most people wait for the swing to hit or bounce anyway. I digress, so lets get back to topic.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

but damage on 2h stab is quite weak compared to polearm stab (lol poleaxe 31p stab, german greatsword 26p stab). Not to mention polestab is pretty much instant.

only if you get the "lol wait i slide my sword in your head even though its gone right next to your face" off

[CaptainQuantum]

Lactose what you speak of is the "lolstab" which is the only way to use a stab now since it's so slow, and with the polearm stabs speed the spin stab on it is far more deadly and harder to detect because it chambers behind the body instead of on level with the head. Still all I made this thread for was to stop the "I hiltslash because it's the only tactic I need to know" crap, stab stun is silly and I think removal would stop servers from being hiltslash fests for melee.

[Furax]

Hmmm...I dont think were playing the same game, because the 2handed sword stab is still the most powerful move inn the game.

Sure as mentioned if you whiff/glance the stun for stab is slightly longer than sideswings, but wouldent you be equally hit anyways if you glanced a swing and the opponent was attacking instead of blocking?

It still has the range on most polearms shorter than 150 reach, even though its own is 120. It still fast, you can also still lolspin around all you want.

Atleast the majority of players I see utilize and seem to prefer the stab over swings. As do I.

[CaptainQuantum]

Actually speaking in terms of ranges a Danish stab has 204 range (sword range+80), whereas it's plus 14 for poles. My issue is due to speed bonus from backpedal the stab will always glance, and the amount of stun is proportional to animation length. Since the stab animation for 2h is ~2* as long the stun is ~2 times as long as other swings, which translates to stab chambered by an overhead being unblockable. Polearm stabs should not do more damage than 2h stabs since the animations are completely balanced by their duration and difficulty to detect, but as I said this thread is not about that it's about making the 2h stab less risky. And of course to reduce the amount of hiltslash only duelists which is ruining dueling fun in crpg.

[Dezilagel]

That's bs Quant, I recently made a 2h alt and the stab is definitively not twice as slow.

I actually don't see a single problem, you can make the 2h stabs fast just by turning, and they're long.

Polesttun is bs, but they're removing that (thank god!)

[Gurnisson]

Retarded duration and length compared to polearm stab. I think it's fair as it is.

[Ragni_Bross]

Make the thrusts do cut damage. That would actually make sense since most of the stabs nowadays are cuts that can't be blocked as cuts. Derp-herp-darth-herp.

[Diomedes]

Polearms stun
2h stabs are magic
Shielders swing like hummingbirds fly

Tweaking is fine but changing this setup dramatically would require rebalancing the whole set.  I agree with Saul that gameplay should be deeper rather than more shallow, but it's unfortunate when deeply skilled players can walk over less skilled players because they use some rather absurd weapon mechanics.  The 2h stab, for example, continues well after the sword has actually stopped stabbing.  Rather than just being powerful, it's also magical.  The polearm stun, too, can allow chains of hits with very powerful weapons (cp: Bec).  And some 1h swings, even when burdened by a shield, can come become almost unblockable unless one is reading what the shielder is going to do (cp: Matey ಠ_ಠ).

It's in these crazy cases, which are mostly weapon-specific, that we should be tweaking.  IMO threads about "Fixing 2h stab" mistake the problem for a problem of weapon kind, rather than of specific case.

[CaptainQuantum]

I agree I may of mistitled the post, but my point still stands.

Dezi a stab is not made faster by spinning, it actually makes it hit later just with more speed bonus. As for the twice thing, I am just quoting what Baldrider said a while ago. The main point is that the stun needs to be reduced on the stab for 2h, since a spammer just happens to overhead when I am stabbing nets the spammer a free kill? That seems against the normal way of crpg.

[zagibu]

Hmmm, I don't know. I have not experienced the long stun to be a big problem. Actually, I can't remember the stab bouncing very often. Maybe that's because I usually play with at least 8 PS.

Overall, the 2h stab is still the best stab in the game, IMO. Maybe it's okay if it has a small downside?

And on the topic of adjusting stab for polearms...if you do, raise the stab of spears. If polestun is remedied, noone will ever use the regular spears anymore, if they are not buffed somehow.

[Vibe]

Overall, the 2h stab is still the best stab in the game, IMO. Maybe it's okay if it has a small downside?

2h stab is the weakest in the game - DAMAGE WISE:
German Greatsword - 26 pierce
Long Espada Eslavona - 28 pierce
Poleaxe - 31 pierce

+ has that uberlong stun when someone blocks you. I wouldn't really call it a small downside.

And on the topic of adjusting stab for polearms...if you do, raise the stab of spears. If polestun is remedied, noone will ever use the regular spears anymore, if they are not buffed somehow.

I beg to differ. Spear + shield is still a good combo, no matter the stun.

[Paul]

2h stab is fine

[Mala]

2h stab has a quite longe recovery time. But weakest stab ingame?

Hmm, here i have my good, old knife with oh 21 pierce stab damage.
Ok, this was a bit unfair because it is a slashing weapon. Lets take a look at my stabbing toys.
Look my short sword with 26 pierce, yeah it is a tie, or my dagger 25 pierce, well it beat at least the danish one.

The main issue is that you can drag the point in your enemy without any problems and not the strange animation timing.