retiring: what's the point?

[PieParadox]

Yeah grinding is annoying as hell.

But once you hit about 50k in gold, you don't have to worry about it so much really.

[Phazey]

Bullshit. 20 times? Who do you actually know who retired "20 times"?

Dozens of guys. Myself, i've retired 12 times and i have several level 28+ alts.
What you fail to realize, i think, is that some of us have been playing c-rpg for over a year.

I've been playing for about a month and am just now getting to 31.

Some of us can level our characters from 1 to 31 in two or three weeks.

Running around in peasent gear saving up your gold getting killed by a tin cans all day who seem to have unlimited funds to pay for their upkeep costs.

That tin can has to pay upkeep also! It would be much worse without upkeep for new players, trust me.

Older players can afford the masterwork / lordly armors while newer player can't.

Wrong: heirloomed items are not more expensive to upkeep.

Anyway, you'll have some perspective when you've played the game a bit longer. The upkeep system is a very important innovation that does help the balance between old and new players.
I agree that old players have an advantage, but that advantage isn't just because of gear or a gold stockpile. It's mostly experience and skill that make the difference. The advantage heirlooms give you is small. Also, some players kick ass with a scythe at level 15, because they are just that damned good. It's not just their gear.

There are a few mechanisms that 'help' new players. For example: you don't pay upkeep on gen 1 up to level 25 and you can make a new skip the fun character every week to try out builds.

Myself, i love retiring. It keeps the game fresh and it gives me a challenge. Picking optimal gear for my level, thinking about the economics (i earn a lot of money between level 1 and level 25, because i use lesser gear) and also changing my tactics to suit my character... all fun to me.

Ages ago, crpg did not have retirement. Everybody just kept grinding and the differences between old and new players just got bigger and bigger. You had to be 'peasant' for months, dying to plate-armored, flamberge-wielding, armored-horse-riding level 40+ characters.

Trust me, retirement is a great way to level the playing field a bit. I'm not saying heirlooms, a few hundred thousand gold and a good selection of gear doesn't give any advantage. I'm just saying it could be much worse.

And about 'the gind'. Son, just stop grinding. You will get there eventually.
Focus on enjoying the game, focus on winning, focus on trying to organize your team into a good fighting group instead (i wrote a guide on group tactics ages ago, check it out, it's in the Guides forum). Set small personal goals.

For me, it sometimes feels a bit of a grind between level 25 and level 30, because i'm using reasonable gear but my character is slightly sub-par. But once i reach level 30, that level just flies by and then i get to retire again.

If you're worried about money, consider selling your first heirloom point. It brings in 400 000 gold or more, if you're lucky. Or if you don't prefer using the more expensive items, instead heirloom something you use a lot. Or don't retire at all. Consider making alts. You can kick ass without heirlooms. Instead, focus on getting the right build, the right equipment and most importantly, the right play style.

I guess what i'm trying to say is, look at the game with a more long term perspective. It's a game you play many months. Don't grind, instead, try to enjoy the challenges the game gives you. Know it's not fair... know some of your opponents have an advantage... the victory should be even sweeter.

[Polobow]

I really, REALLY hate grinding. Repetition gets boring very fast for me.

Solution: Don't grind.

I'm gen 2, loomed my torch, and i am just playing when i feel like.

[Qilidj_Arslan]

I've been playing since last august and I only retired once. With a horse archer build, low levels are a pain in the arse. My money has never been over 80k and is slowly going down since the upkeep is going up every patch. I will retire again the day it will be mandatory.

[Teeth]

I understand why people think heirloomed items cost more to upkeep. My MW Danish costs 34k if I equip it on my character site. If you think you can upkeep 40k of gear and look at the total gear costs on the site, you really get the wrong idea. I think it should just display the regular price, this is very confusing. It's not like anyone is going to sell his looms to the bank anyway.

[Lt_Anders]

I understand why people think heirloomed items cost more to upkeep. My MW Danish costs 34k if I equip it on my character site. If you think you can upkeep 40k of gear and look at the total gear costs on the site, you really get the wrong idea. I think it should just display the regular price, this is very confusing. It's not like anyone is going to sell his looms to the bank anyway.

I know someone who did. He got it back when chadz gave back looms people sold to back. +1 for 50k from him since he didn't want it. Cheapest loom i ever bought.(not to mention I loomed it myself right after so it can now net me 550k )

[MrShine]

Fun fact: Looms matter, but player experience skill & build matter much much more.

Since the last time I played a shielder I've seen a KDR increase of .7.  The only difference between my last shielder gen and this gen is I went from +1 gloves to +3 gloves.  Do you really think +5 armor accounts for the change in kills?  Maybe marginally, but I would point to more experience as a shielder as the main contributor.

A lot of new players think that they are incredibly outmatched against all the tin cans in fully heirloomed equipment, and they have to grind hundreds of hours to match their gear in order to compete.  That's not true at all.  You can be quite effective and successful if you get close to level 30 during your first generation once you can start to get a "standard" set of mid/high end non-heirloomed gear that you are comfortable with.  If you run into one of those "fully heirloomed tin cans" (which are probably less common than you think) pierce and blunt damage will go a long way to cutting them down to size.

The biggest difference between a level 30 gen 1 char and a level 30 gen 10 char is experience (skill), far more than looms.  The sooner you accept this the sooner you'll be able to improve instead of complaining about how disadvantaged you are.

[Tears of Destiny]

Bullshit. 20 times? Who do you actually know who retired "20 times"? Unless you've got your character sitting on some leeching server I don't know about sucking up xp and gold while you're at work, I highly doubt anyone has retired this many times. I've been playing for about a month and am just now getting to 31.

Plenty of people.
It was really bad before the recalc patch, Kesh for example was gen 91 and was earning 10,000 xp per tick.
After the recalc patch though, the highest was 31 or so... Still plenty of people past gen 20 though. The minority sure, but I personally know a few. Bothersome Aldryk for example. If this is the only game you play, you can retire in two weeks, or once every week if you have no job. Average of a little over 70 hours to retire (9 hours on average multiplier per million xp I think)

[PhantomZero]

A couple of players discovered that you could join multiple servers at once and receive full xp and gold for being in each of them, they were never punished for this but the bug was fixed.

[Punisher]

A couple of players discovered that you could join multiple servers at once and receive full xp and gold for being in each of them, they were never punished for this but the bug was fixed.

That's multiboxing and they were awarded essay bans. The ones who did it on EU at least.

[Turkhammer]

15 gens later, I get 7100 xp at x5 now. The extra 2k helps in my grind to lvl 33. Also, more money if you sell items/ loom points.

I KNEW it wasn't just skill, but is was also grind.  I feel better about myself now.  Thank you robert.

[Bowl_of_Cereal]

I think it's neat that it takes forever to get to 31. It's like how when I first started playing tin cans were people who could take meteor strikes to the face, then it lost the coolness because suddenly there were tin cans everywhere and it wasn't difficult to become one myself.

Sort of back in vanilla wow how getting a mount was considered incredible and those who didn't own mounts were peasants.

[Tears of Destiny]

The next step is to get every loom you want, and then go for level 33 (though at this rate I need to gun for 34 instead)... You feel great. 

[Overdriven]

I've been playing since last august and I only retired once. With a horse archer build, low levels are a pain in the arse. My money has never been over 80k and is slowly going down since the upkeep is going up every patch. I will retire again the day it will be mandatory.

I find retiring useful for the money. I got down to 10k, pretty much my lowest every, and then retired. Played peasant till level 22 or so due to HA being crap until about level 28 and stay as a foot archer till I use my champ courser. My money is now back up to about 40k and I'm still only level 23.

[Swahili_Zulu_Mon]

Ooooh, breaking down my post and saying "wrong" after each of my sentences... I see what you did there... Do you really want to have a conversation like this? Alright... if you insist.

Dozens of guys. Myself, i've retired 12 times and i have several level 28+ alts.
What you fail to realize, i think, is that some of us have been playing c-rpg for over a year.

So obviously you're out of touch with what's it's like to be new in this game.

Some of us can level our characters from 1 to 31 in two or three weeks.

Do "some of us" also maintain a healthy social life and work 50-60 hours per week? 

That tin can has to pay upkeep also!

Lol, you sound like a republican trying to defend tax breaks for the wealthy.

Wrong: heirloomed items are not more expensive to upkeep.

I wasn't talking about upkeep, I was talking about buying the items second hand on the marketplace.

Anyway, you'll have some perspective when you've played the game a bit longer.

Ah, the stupid-nubs-don't-know-anything argument. Nice to see such lazy thinking from the admins.

The upkeep system is a very important innovation that does help the balance between old and new players.

You're joking right? The inequality between old and new players is painfully obvious. Just go on any server and you'll see the same tin cans doing the same thing all day.

I agree that old players have an advantage, but that advantage isn't just because of gear or a gold stockpile. It's mostly experience and skill that make the difference.

Lol, you're lying to yourself if you think "skill" is mostly responsible for your KD ratio. Sad to see an admin who's so naive about an online game.

The advantage heirlooms give you is small. Also, some players kick ass with a scythe at level 15, because they are just that damned good. It's not just their gear.

Please, by all means, name these players who are crushing tin cans on plated chargers with their scythes, I'm all ears.

There are a few mechanisms that 'help' new players. For example: you don't pay upkeep on gen 1 up to level 25 and you can make a new skip the fun character every week to try out builds.

A new player isn't someone below 25, a new player is someone who's still on their second generation and doesn't have 5+ heirloomed items. Earlier in this thread people were talking about what a big difference heirlooms make. I guess they're wrong though, eh? You know why so many players are continually respeccing to stay below 26? It's because upkeep costs are fucking excessive, ruin the fun and turn the game into a boring ass grind.

Myself, i love retiring.

You must love doing anything when you have retired as many times as I'm guessing you have and you have accumulated such excesses in heirloomed gear and gold.

Ages ago, crpg did not have retirement. Everybody just kept grinding and the differences between old and new players just got bigger and bigger...You had to be 'peasant' for months, dying to plate-armored, flamberge-wielding, armored-horse-riding level 40+ characters.

I played for a couple weeks when this mod was first released (been playing warband since day 1). It's still like that, it's just they have a ton of heirloomed items now instead of a couple extra levels. In order to make any gold you still have to be a peasent for months wearing shit gear and getting 1-shotted by 2h spamming heirloomed tin cans who then go on the forums and chalk it up to skill and are general dicks to newer players telling them they just need to grind more and it will all be better.

Trust me, retirement is a great way to level the playing field a bit.

Based on my experience here the past couple weeks, you're wrong. It's a horrible leveling function.

I'm not saying heirlooms, a few hundred thousand gold and a good selection of gear doesn't give any advantage.

Are you sure, because from what I've read in the rest of your post, it sort of sounds like you're saying it doesn't and that performance differences and enjoyment levels are 90% based on skill.

I'm just saying it could be much worse.

This is a retarded statement. Anything can be worse. Name a situation and I can tell you how it could be worse. A starving kid in africa could complain to me about not having food and I could say to him, "well there sonny boy, it could be worse, at least you don't have aids, why are you complaining?".

And about 'the gind'. Son, just stop grinding. You will get there eventually.
Focus on enjoying the game, focus on winning,

I think you should reroll a level one account with no heirlooms and no friends helping you out, start as a peasent and just "ignore the grind," just "focus on winning," (even though you have no influence over the outcome of the game as a peasant unless you count throwing ladders or distracting the enemy for a glorious 2-3 seconds it takes them to catch and one shot you.

focus on trying to organize your team into a good fighting group instead

who the hell is going to listen to the new scrub who tries to boss everyone around, I know i'm not...

If you're worried about money, consider selling your first heirloom point. It brings in 400 000 gold or more, if you're lucky. Or if you don't prefer using the more expensive items, instead heirloom something you use a lot. Or don't retire at all. Consider making alts. You can kick ass without heirlooms. Instead, focus on getting the right build, the right equipment and most importantly, the right play style.

Could you be more condescending please, I don't think you're being condescending enough here. You honestly believe new players aren't thinking about this as they grind round after round having very little influence on the game? And you out of touch mods and admins get mad at all the leechers. Maybe make the game a bit more insteresting during the "fun" part (aka boring ass fucking grind), and maybe the amount of leeching my decline a bit. Ever consider that?
 

I guess what i'm trying to say is, look at the game with a more long term perspective. It's a game you play many months. Don't grind, instead, try to enjoy the challenges the game gives you. Know it's not fair... know some of your opponents have an advantage... the victory should be even sweeter.

I have no incentive to win, as I have no influence over the outcome of battle matches as a new player. The only incentive is that eventually I'll be able to make a character that will stand an equal chance against these older players, because right now it's a boring, unrewarding grind where you stand little chance in battle and have to deal with stupid dick old players who chalk up their repeated victories to "skill". Give me a ton of gold / xp for killing a heirloomed tin can 2h spammer and I might actually consider trying. Until then there's no point. I'm just forced to sit there like a sponge and collect the xp like welfare checks, saving them so hopefully one day I can afford to compete.

Your current upkeep system turns this game into a boring grind and it's made worse by a bunch of forum chocolate chip cookie old players attacking anyone who complains about it.