Hey chadz is this how you fix things?

[Oberyn]

See following post 
Anyway, devs may spend hours of their day making the mod. But we spend hours of our day playing it. You need both to have something. Having one without the other is useless unless devs are happy to just spend time coding ect for the sake of it. The same way a business needs customers. Just because a business splashes out lots of money to make something, doesn't mean we don't equally spend a lot of money/effort to buy it. In terms of crpg it's a time investment. It's the exact same thing.

If devs wrong someone and remove something they've spent hours and hours working on (i.e gaining heirlooms and being able to trade them). Then I personally think you should have every right to feel a sense of entitlement and as such be able to demand compensation or whatever. The same way the devs should feel entitled to slam anyone who tells them they are doing a crappy job at coding the game/whatever because that's what they've spent tons of time doing.

Yes Gawin should probably have approached the devs more directly than a post on the forums. But I still think even if he had, there should be nothing wrong in feeling a sense of entitlement. As both sides have invested something in this mod.

During the entire time Gawin was "working" for those looms, he was playing a game. A free game created by the devs. That's what we get out of the relationship. The least thing he could have done is politely enquired, without barging in and calling devs thieves like they deliberately stole his stuff to piss him off. He himself aknowledges the loom was hot, and somehow can't make the connection that maybe, just maybe, it wasn't a deliberate thing but part of the mass reversal of all trading related to the scammer accounts.
Also, this doesn't seem to be getting through since you're still talking about "business" models, cRPG is not a business. THERE ARE NO FRIGGIN CUSTOMERS. The devs have no incentive whatsoever to have more or less people playing. I don't think they give a damn either way. chadz himself said that he's making this game for himself, not anyone else. Even if only a few people played, chadz would probably keep coding. Anything at all in the database, anything on the website, anything on the forum, if chadz decided he wanted to destroy it all tommorow he could. HE HAS NO OBLIGATION, whatsoever, to provide us with this product, and no incentive beside a feeling of accomplishment and perhaps the feeling of having created something where lots of people have a lot of fun. I doubt he would pull the plug, even if he lost interest, since I'm sure others would want to mantain it anyways, and chadz isn't a massive dick (although he is a massive troll). But if he did, then what? Where do you go rage? Are you going to sue chadz for deleting his own information? XD

[Overdriven]

(click to show/hide)

During the entire time Gawin was "working" for those looms, he was playing a game. A free game created by the devs. That's what we get out of the relationship. The least thing he could have done is politely enquired, without barging in and calling devs thieves like they deliberately stole his stuff to piss him off. He himself aknowledges the loom was hot, and somehow can't make the connection that maybe, just maybe, it wasn't a deliberate thing but part of the mass reversal of all trading related to the scammer accounts.
Also, this doesn't seem to be getting through since you're still talking about "business" models, cRPG is not a business. THERE ARE NO FRIGGIN CUSTOMERS. The devs have no incentive whatsoever to have more or less people playing. I don't think they give a damn either way. chadz himself said that he's making this game for himself, not anyone else. Even if only a few people played, chadz would probably keep coding. Anything at all in the database, anything on the website, anything on the forum, if chadz decided he wanted to destroy it all tommorow he could. HE HAS NO OBLIGATION, whatsoever, to provide us with this product, and no incentive beside a feeling of accomplishment and perhaps the feeling of having created something where lots of people have a lot of fun. I doubt he would pull the plug, even if he lost interest, since I'm sure others would want to mantain it anyways, cause chadz isn't a massive dick (although he is a massive troll). But if he did, then what? Where do you go rage? Are you going to sue chadz for deleting his own information? XD

Hence why I included 'unless the devs are happy coding for the sake of it' and for themselves can be added. If they are, then fine they can do whatever the hell they want. But tbh I know if I were doing what they were doing, a lot of the satisfaction would come from seeing how the mod and the community grow together. The increase in popularity ect. But that's just me.

In order for a community to grow properly/for something to be truly successful, you need to act like it is a business. Thus if someone has been wronged by your mod team/company, you act as quickly as you can to right it. That way the community see's active involvement from the devs and appreciates more what they are doing rather than them just being considered trolls and not really actually being respected by the community. People respect them for coding the mod...but really they quite obviously don't respect the way they run things here. Otherwise there would be a lot less threads like this in every aspect of crpg.

But like I said, if the devs don't actually give a crap and are just coding because they want to for them. Then of course they can do what the hell they like and watch the community grow/die without it affecting them.

[Oberyn]

Hence why I included 'unless the devs are happy coding for the sake of it' and for themselves can be added. If they are, then fine they can do whatever the hell they want. But tbh I know if I were doing what they were doing, a lot of the satisfaction would come from seeing how the mod and the community grow together. The increase in popularity ect. But that's just me.

In order for a community to grow properly/for something to be truly successful, you need to act like it is a business. Thus if someone has been wronged by your mod team/company, you act as quickly as you can to right it. That way the community see's active involvement from the devs and appreciates more what they are doing rather than them just being considered trolls and not really actually being respected by the community.

But like I said, if the devs don't actually give a crap and are just coding because they want to for them. Then of course they can do what the hell they like and watch the community grow/die without it affecting them.

I've seen nothing to convince me that devs have threated this mod like a business, ever, yet the mod seems to have grown and been healthy for quite some time. I guess it works?

[Overdriven]

I've seen nothing to convince me that devs have threated this mod like a business, ever, yet the mod seems to have grown and been healthy for quite some time. I guess it works?

It grows because they've done a good job coding and most people commend them for that. But the way they deal with the community leaves a lot to be desired. Obviously the fact it's an internet community (lots of idiot posts/threads) has something to do with that. But if it were known that the devs deal with things quickly, fairly and have a very active involvement in their community and not known as 'trolls'. Then the mod would grow even more.

But then if they are happy with things the way they are, then that's no problem either. It entirely depends on how they want to do things.

Anyway I'm off now!

[Gnjus]

....and then the marmot wrapped the chocolate. 

[Teeth]

....and then the marmot wrapped he chocolate. 

Well thats an expression I have to google

EDIT: Google has no idea what you're talking about.

[chadz]

If I were the devs I'd jump at the chance to help someone I may have wronged. Regardless of how they approached me. As it was likely my fault in the first place.

Heh, that made me laugh. Not because I think it's silly, but because I would have said the same two years ago, as a member of a community. Fact is, things change. I actually would have way more to say on that matter, but I guess it's better not to, so I'll just do this:

the 101 guide to get support from the cRPG team:
step I) do not contact the following people directly:
a) chadz
b) cmp
why? because you need a hell of a lot of luck to hit the good minutes. It's not because I think I'm something better or I don't want to talk to you. I simply don't have the capacity to do it. Cmp, on the other hand, is just blatantly evil and a misanthrope, as far as I know. Either way, believe me, it's way faster if you go the right route of
step II) contact anyone else of the dev team,
because they will separate your story from bullcrap to "hey this guy could really need some help". and this helps me a lot. which means i can spend more time helping people (and eventually coding, too) and less time talking to people. sounds harsh, but it's true.
step III) chances are, the dev-member or admin you talked to forwarded it to me. chances are, I promised i'll do it - and forgot. So it can help, from time to time (do not read: all the time), to poke your contact every now and then, ask him about progress.
step IV) (not this case) do NOT even bother asking us to do stuff that is somehow gameplay changing. like "hey can you respec me". "hey can you switch my heirloom" stuff like that. Features are for everyone, or no one. If a feature doesn't exist, suggest it to be added. do NOT ask someone to just change stuff for yourself.
and last but not least: be friendly. we like talking to people who like talking to us. which means a friendly atmosphere. we don't like talking to people who don't like friendly talk either. Which means that friendly guys move forward in the todo list, not so friendly guys don't. Who would have thought.

as someone said, trying to be a bully helps when your McChicken has a brown leaf of salad in it, it won't get you far in this place though. Just human, sorry, can't help it.

(click to show/hide)

I hope i can trust ToD to quote this post in appropiate parts of the forum from now on.

[Teeth]

chadzRANT!

[Leshma]

@Gawin

Life goes on...

[Leshma]

Well thats an expression I have to google

EDIT: Google has no idea what you're talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0pN1PpfIag

[Teeth]

And how did that become an expression and why does Gnjus apply it here? Gnjus is no frenchie right?

[Tears of Destiny]

(click to show/hide)

I hope i can trust ToD to quote this post in appropiate parts of the forum from now on.

 

You know me too well.

[Gawin]

Heh, that made me laugh. Not because I think it's silly, but because I would have said the same two years ago, as a member of a community. Fact is, things change. I actually would have way more to say on that matter, but I guess it's better not to, so I'll just do this:

the 101 guide to get support from the cRPG team:
step I) do not contact the following people directly:
a) chadz
b) cmp
why? because you need a hell of a lot of luck to hit the good minutes. It's not because I think I'm something better or I don't want to talk to you. I simply don't have the capacity to do it. Cmp, on the other hand, is just blatantly evil and a misanthrope, as far as I know. Either way, believe me, it's way faster if you go the right route of
step II) contact anyone else of the dev team,
because they will separate your story from bullcrap to "hey this guy could really need some help". and this helps me a lot. which means i can spend more time helping people (and eventually coding, too) and less time talking to people. sounds harsh, but it's true.
step III) chances are, the dev-member or admin you talked to forwarded it to me. chances are, I promised i'll do it - and forgot. So it can help, from time to time (do not read: all the time), to poke your contact every now and then, ask him about progress.
step IV) (not this case) do NOT even bother asking us to do stuff that is somehow gameplay changing. like "hey can you respec me". "hey can you switch my heirloom" stuff like that. Features are for everyone, or no one. If a feature doesn't exist, suggest it to be added. do NOT ask someone to just change stuff for yourself.
and last but not least: be friendly. we like talking to people who like talking to us. which means a friendly atmosphere. we don't like talking to people who don't like friendly talk either. Which means that friendly guys move forward in the todo list, not so friendly guys don't. Who would have thought.

as someone said, trying to be a bully helps when your McChicken has a brown leaf of salad in it, it won't get you far in this place though. Just human, sorry, can't help it.

(click to show/hide)

I hope i can trust ToD to quote this post in appropiate parts of the forum from now on.

hey chadz sooooo i am not going to get my looms back? or is this just going to take more time?

[Overdriven]

(click to show/hide)

Heh, that made me laugh. Not because I think it's silly, but because I would have said the same two years ago, as a member of a community. Fact is, things change. I actually would have way more to say on that matter, but I guess it's better not to, so I'll just do this:

the 101 guide to get support from the cRPG team:
step I) do not contact the following people directly:
a) chadz
b) cmp
why? because you need a hell of a lot of luck to hit the good minutes. It's not because I think I'm something better or I don't want to talk to you. I simply don't have the capacity to do it. Cmp, on the other hand, is just blatantly evil and a misanthrope, as far as I know. Either way, believe me, it's way faster if you go the right route of
step II) contact anyone else of the dev team,
because they will separate your story from bullcrap to "hey this guy could really need some help". and this helps me a lot. which means i can spend more time helping people (and eventually coding, too) and less time talking to people. sounds harsh, but it's true.
step III) chances are, the dev-member or admin you talked to forwarded it to me. chances are, I promised i'll do it - and forgot. So it can help, from time to time (do not read: all the time), to poke your contact every now and then, ask him about progress.
step IV) (not this case) do NOT even bother asking us to do stuff that is somehow gameplay changing. like "hey can you respec me". "hey can you switch my heirloom" stuff like that. Features are for everyone, or no one. If a feature doesn't exist, suggest it to be added. do NOT ask someone to just change stuff for yourself.
and last but not least: be friendly. we like talking to people who like talking to us. which means a friendly atmosphere. we don't like talking to people who don't like friendly talk either. Which means that friendly guys move forward in the todo list, not so friendly guys don't. Who would have thought.

as someone said, trying to be a bully helps when your McChicken has a brown leaf of salad in it, it won't get you far in this place though. Just human, sorry, can't help it.

(click to show/hide)

I hope i can trust ToD to quote this post in appropiate parts of the forum from now on.

This should be stickied in a separate thread  Thanks for the reply though. It's always good to hear something proper from you and I entirely understand what you're saying.

[Mustikki]

hey chadz sooooo i am not going to get my looms back? or is this just going to take more time?

Contact Espu/okin/fasader/shik/urist on irc, chadz propably alread forgot, he wrote in here...