Poll

Should i atleast get 2 loom points or my starting item back?

yes
no
to hell with you, you whining troll

Author Topic: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?  (Read 11790 times)

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Offline Casimir

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2011, 04:18:31 am »
+1
technically speaking theft is appropriation of property belonging to another WITH intention too permanently deprive.



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Offline Harafat

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2011, 04:33:56 am »
0
technically speaking theft is appropriation of property belonging to another WITH intention too permanently deprive.



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+1

Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2011, 04:42:59 pm »
0
Exactly -- It's chadz's mod, all the items, everything, in it belongs to him. He owes Gawin nothing. Therefore it would've served the aforementioned person better to ask nicely.

c-RPG is a free mod.

So in a made up situation, if say you did a lot of trading on the market place, and one day you find out that chadz had taken all your items and gold or even deleted your account because a number of trades ago, unknown to you, a stolen item had passed your hands in an innocent seeming manner. You wouldn't be mad because it's acctually chadz's account right? You must have spent days if not months grinding gold and experience to get those heirlooms and things for chadz.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #63 on: September 26, 2011, 05:25:43 pm »
0
Xant...helpful as always.

Gawin has every right to be annoyed. It seems a bit odd that he wasn't at least consulted first. Seeing as his transaction had nothing to do with UltimateWar's original scamming. There's no arguing against that it was badly handled by whoever took his items away. I'd say Gawin's original post was actually quite calm considering. Many people would post a thread that was far more flaming/insulting to the devs.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 05:27:09 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Bjord

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #64 on: September 26, 2011, 05:30:15 pm »
0
He has every right to be pissed off and curse at chadz. But if he wants something a good idea is often to be as humble as he can.

After all, to show true humility is to not give in to anger and frustration no matter what. It can sound harsh, but that's how it is.
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #65 on: September 26, 2011, 05:32:20 pm »
0
Considering Gawin's age I think he was stunningly calm.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2011, 05:34:47 pm »
0
He has every right to be pissed off and curse at chadz. But if he wants something a good idea is often to be as humble as he can.

After all, to show true humility is to not give in to anger and frustration no matter what. It can sound harsh, but that's how it is.

In most cases in real life, being humble rarely get's you anywhere. Especially when you're dealing with a case like this. If you aren't more demanding, then often you'll just be ignored/no one will pay attention to you and other cases will come first from people who are demanding.

If the guys who took his items away (not going to place the blame on someone) are the kind of people who expect someone who's been wronged by them to come begging/whatever to them to get it back. Then they have definitely lost my respect. Whoever removed his items should fully expect a serious/demanding tone.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 05:36:02 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2011, 05:38:43 pm »
0
While I agree with you Overdriven, I would remind you of the attitudes and known methods of handling things from the Devs. The devs are known trolls.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.

Offline Bjord

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2011, 05:46:12 pm »
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In most cases in real life, being humble rarely get's you anywhere. Especially when you're dealing with a case like this. If you aren't more demanding, then often you'll just be ignored/no one will pay attention to you and other cases will come first from people who are demanding.

If the guys who took his items away (not going to place the blame on someone) are the kind of people who expect someone who's been wronged by them to come begging/whatever to them to get it back. Then they have definitely lost my respect. Whoever removed his items should fully expect a serious/demanding tone.

In this case, considering the support he got from everyone he didn't have to be demanding. Most of you did it for him. The tactically sound approach would have been to try and appeal to their sense of justice.

That is if the devs have any sense of justice... :lol:

Anyway I wish Gavin the best, I hope he gets redeemed. I pray the devs have the kindness in them to put some time aside and help him. I can't argue against the fact that he has been wronged, either way.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2011, 05:54:00 pm »
0
The tactically sound approach would have been to try and appeal to their sense of justice.

Probably right.

Should also probably have followed the usual form of approach:

1. Call customer support (IRC?). If this doesn't work and produce results, step 2.
2. Write formal letter of complaint to higher ups (chadz ect) involving threatening of lawyers and to take it public. If this still fails then step 3.
3. GO PUBLIC with an epic story of how you were horribly wronged (General Discussion forum).

« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 06:01:23 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2011, 05:55:33 pm »
0
Going public almost never helps in cRPG. Gaining the support of the masses is near useless when you are not in an electorial system
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2011, 05:56:35 pm »
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Going public never helps in cRPG. Gaining the support of the masses is useless when you are not in an electorial system

True for crpg. But it helps against big companies in real life  :)

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2011, 05:57:28 pm »
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Very true.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2011, 06:03:44 pm »
+3
In most cases in real life, being humble rarely get's you anywhere. Especially when you're dealing with a case like this. If you aren't more demanding, then often you'll just be ignored/no one will pay attention to you and other cases will come first from people who are demanding.

If the guys who took his items away (not going to place the blame on someone) are the kind of people who expect someone who's been wronged by them to come begging/whatever to them to get it back. Then they have definitely lost my respect. Whoever removed his items should fully expect a serious/demanding tone.

It's not like cRPG is some bureaucratic, red tape nightmare, and it's not like this guy's mortgage/money/job/life/whatever depends on it. People have a direct line of communication with the devs (whenever they're not, you know, living their lives) and nothing, nothing at all in this game is worth turning into an entitled brat to get your way. Squeaky wheel might get the grease in RL in most situations, but this is a frigging forum for a free online video game. It's a terrible comparison. No one is asking people to be pushovers.
How someone with less of a sense of entitlement would have handled this? Log on IRC, query one of the devs after asking who is around, tell them "Hey, there seems to have been a mistake, some of the looms I traded disapeared, I got them from that scammer but I had no idea it was hot goods, any way of getting either my item or the money back?". Stomping around demanding to see the manager might get you results down at the local McDonalds, but here it's just gonna make the devs ignore you. No one is an employee here, you are not a customer, you have zero rights. Devs are doing this as a hobby, they have no obligations to anyone.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 06:06:15 pm by Oberyn »
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2011, 06:13:40 pm »
0
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See following post  :D
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Anyway, devs may spend hours of their day making the mod. But we spend hours of our day playing it. You need both to have something. Having one without the other is useless unless devs are happy to just spend time coding ect for the sake of it. The same way a business needs customers. Just because a business splashes out lots of money to make something, doesn't mean we don't equally spend a lot of money/effort to buy it. In terms of crpg it's a time investment. It's the exact same thing.

If devs wrong someone and remove something they've spent hours and hours working on (i.e gaining heirlooms and being able to trade them). Then I personally think you should have every right to feel a sense of entitlement and as such be able to demand compensation or whatever. The same way the devs should feel entitled to slam anyone who tells them they are doing a crappy job at coding the game or if someone say copies their work without their permission, because that's what they've spent tons of time doing.

Yes Gawin should probably have approached the devs more directly than a post on the forums. But I still think even if he had, there should be nothing wrong in feeling a sense of entitlement. As both sides have invested something in this mod. Arguing that this mod is free, as some have, has nothing to do with it. If I were the devs I'd jump at the chance to help someone I may have wronged. Regardless of how they approached me. As it was likely my fault in the first place. It helps if the community see's that such things are dealt with quickly.

Edit:

It's already been stated that the devs are known trolls. And it's a bit sad that they are viewed that way in my opinion. This mod would grow a lot more if both sides dealt with each more decently. But fact is, if you make a complaint as such, and all you receive are some unhelpful answers from devs/admins/whatever. Then people are not going to respect the devs regardless of the work they do.

Just as if you come on here and write a post flaming the devs/swearing/insulting ect, then you will lose the respect of them and the community.

But Gawin's post I think was well addressed, even if he should have gone to them directly first.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 06:24:21 pm by Overdriven »