fair cav behavior on battle servers

[BlindGuy]

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when i started playing cRPG, i was choosing mostly battle because of the thrill, skill and tactics included(that stayed that way for quite some time). Siege was boring to me as you got respawned anyways , a lot of more teamhits there too.

Now i find myself more and more driven to siege. It is not that i like it more, but that i can't stand the cav investation anymore at times. MY CHOICE ISN'T ANYMORE WHAT I LIKE MORE, BUT WHAT I CAN BARE FOR WHILE. Battles cav or mindless siege getting slaughtered by chrushthrough nubs at entry points of a castle. It is the choice between pest and colara

When i started we had in average over the day 3-7 cavs on each map splitted by 2 teams. Now we have at 5 o'clock in the morning 3-7 cav on one team ... wtf
On Full Server max 120 players, i counted upto 70 cav max devided by 2 teams ... are you f***** kidding me ...
When the balancing works really good, 3/4th to 4/5th of those are then in one team ... nice what a total clusterfuck.

Some voice in my head keeps on been puzzled how that can be and still having players not seeing a problem.
In my book this is grieving already.

LOL! You abuse the fact that shields are broken to fuck and complain about anyone else's style of play? GET THE FUCK OUT.

[Bulzur]

there is only one thing that will change current state
if you dont want to see cav killing inf all the time, bring back old lance angle (uuuu cav lobby), no it will not make our scores 80-1, it will make cav duels more interesting again and instead cav focusing on inf it will focus on cav clash more, i used to be a all anti-cav cav player, and there were many more players like this

the irony is that infantry demanded that nerf at the time, and now they are dealing with the consequences

Nice disguised buff.
Hey, you nerfed us, so it's too dangerous to do cav duels, so instead, we rape infantry. Easily.

But if you bring the angle back (buff), there'll be more cav duels.
And afterwards ? The few cavs remaining can rape the infantry with ease. That's really not the issue.



The problem with cavs, and i'm not afraid to say it, is that they're "balanced" because of the horse's price. Problem is, at some point, you just have too much money. So... you want to be more powerful... so... you go cav.
If there was some good "unsheatable AND not usable on horseback" weapon for infantry, even at relatively high price, i expect it would be way more balanced. This "gold" issue is no longer a "valid" balancing point.

Though it's expensive already, since i noticed some high level GK leeching walking on foot with forks, in peasant clothes, but strangely able to whistle a destrier and mount it. Of course, since i'm always so lucky, i have the mounted GK in the opposing team and the horseless ones in my team, wich does screw up balance.  (not in the same time, of course, banner balance)


Fun fact : After seeing some very good GK players on arabian horses baiting a pikeman to thrust too soon, then lancing him before he can even block, i thought they were the most dangerous. It was not after seeing the almighty superjet courser+3 with 7 riding, couching and instantly killing with 0 PS. Always fun to watch.

But i quite agree with Kinngrimm on some points. It's always irritating when you get killed, and couldn't do anything about it : aka : couched/lanced while duelling, crushthroughed by a maul (nop, you can't spam that one...), etc...

It's easy to blame awareness, but there's so many cavs nowadays and you can't look everywhere at the same time. Everytime i play my polearm alt, i'm just OBLIGED to play as a longpsearman. Or i can go with my normal stuff and die quickly, or find my team obliterated in 30sec. It's really a shame. I sincerely respect some GK players (not some of their noob HA but very persistent, but at least 6 that i could name), but it's the only build wich allows the maximum efficiency, when facing archers/xbows/throwers/polearms/2h/shielders.

I definitely have way less fun now. Luckily, there's rageball.

(click to show/hide)

inb4 the relatively old : "The game is called MOUNT&blade, DUH ! "

[Joker86]

'it helps my team' alone justifies everything if it's within the rules...

You need rules to determine if something is unfair or not?

Sorry, but I can't share that attitude 

[Chagan_Arslan]

Nice disguised buff.

Bulzur i asure you i dont want it back anymore, lost the hope for it long time ago, just saying why i think it looks like that based on my own experience. If you take any other point of view as either lobby for nerf or buff i dont think we have anything to talk about

When i think about previous changes to the cav gameplay i was pretty spot on what will happen, and imo i think im correct about this also, maybe im wrong thou

[Overdriven]

Since around a month i play everyday 10-16hours again like a long time ago when i finished my gear set. 

On a regular bases i count 20-30 on each team in a timespan of 7-8 hours daily.
Tops i counted around 70 cav overall. I am on the flanks with cav remember... i see you guys most of the times  but i hope you don't see me always i try to make sure of it.

When I say not that much I usually play 1-2 hours a day, that's not much for me in comparison with a year ago. If you clock 7-8 (10-16) hours a day then small wonder you're fed up with battle and don't even like siege very much. I suggest you play another game rather than coming on and moaning about this. I still doubt very much that 20-30 cav a side is a regular thing. 90% of maps would simply be to crowded for those kind of cav numbers. And the times I've played there's been plenty of space for cav.

The only time I've gotten frustrated as cav, because of to much cav, was immediately following the archery nerf where there was a massive boom. But then it subsided again and it's at the same old normal levels.

[polkafranzi]

The only time I've gotten frustrated as cav, because of to much cav, was immediately following the archery nerf where there was a massive boom. But then it got buffed to a ridiculous level and it's at the same old normal levels.

[kinngrimm]

@all cav & gk
i love to battle you, there is no greater joy as to unhorse one of you, and if i get lanced i may rage for a few sec but all in all i have fun also in defeat. Those who faught with or against me know that i can take a beating and deliver aswell if Fortuna is with me. Point is, i don't dislike you as persons(i let you in on a secret not even ranged guys in terms of cav would be HAs) I got great admiration for some cav players. There formost those who are versatile. Those who have skills in more then only HA or, Lancer, 1h/cav, but are able to switch between classes a bit, f.e. are also good without a horse. Elmer makes me sweat as i never know do i get an arrow in the back or will he bumpslash me. Hentzi same whereby he is a bit more focused on the archery i think. Garrus has himself developed to quite a deadly cav player after i knew him only as infantry for a long time. Kerigans axe *shakeshead* nooooo my shield, ... So yes GK has some awesome players and to have a pure cav clan is also in terms of RP a nice thing.

@GK Haters
how often have you been on their site in battles and they safed the day ... x5 and you were like ... yes yes yes, even if you don't admit it openly we all know you were glad to keep the multiplier, so why not safe the GK flaming till you got to know them for real perhaps in ts, if you then  still hate their guts so be it, but normaly the chances for that are rather thin, as normaly we only hate what we don't know or don't understand.

(click to show/hide)

... If you clock 7-8 (10-16) hours a day then small wonder you're fed up with battle and don't even like siege very much. I suggest you play another game rather than coming on and moaning about this. I still doubt very much that 20-30 cav a side is a regular thing. 90% of maps would simply be to crowded for those kind of cav numbers. And the times I've played there's been plenty of space for cav.

The only time I've gotten frustrated as cav, because of to much cav, was immediately following the archery nerf where there was a massive boom. But then it subsided again and it's at the same old normal levels.

If it wasn't for cav i would play battle all day and wouldn't loose a thought on siege. Whatever you imply to know about me is your own imagination not my motivation. Today over a period of 4-6 hours we had around 25 cav per team. But to be truely sure we would need the statistics of the devs.

...
LOL! You abuse the fact that shields are broken to fuck and complain about anyone else's style of play? GET THE FUCK OUT.

I abuse now what exactly? And what anyone elses's style of play? You are either delusional or at best very unspecific.
Tbh no clue who you are anyway, but it seems you feel strongly about me sry that i can't give you back some love, you seem to need it clearly.


back to topic:
If a cav player intervenes in a 4+(inf/ranged):1 and makes it a 5+:1, there is just no love possible. Not only are these cav players quite likely damaging their own team, but any effort one player with his own skills to get perhaps a kill out of this mess are neglected completly and i insinuate here it is not about skill at all anymore but about ganking and getting a kill at all cost.


edit:
as last cav player to dehorse i feel is a nice thing to do - on the counterpart infantry shouldn't attack someone who is "in the process of dehorsing" by free will to engage without cav.

spawn kills: after 1 minute there shouldn't be an moral implications, if people haven't moved for a minute they are just not in the game. There are some maps where as inf you can reach enemy spawn within 1 minute. You have like 10-20 sec left there and admittedly i kill every last one of those who are still standing around there. It is not about good or bad, or big k/d. It is just cleaning the area so i most likely don't need to go back there later on(check).

[Miranda]

If it wasn't for cav i would play battle all day and wouldn't loose a thought on siege. Whatever you imply to know is your own imagination not my motivation. Today over a period of 4-6 hours we had around 25 cav per team. But to be truely sure we would need the statistics of the devs.
I abuse now what exactly? And what anyone elses's style of play? You are either delusional or at best very unspecific.
Tbh no clue who you are anyway, but it seems you feel strongly about me sry that i can't give you back some love, you seem to need it clearly.


back to topic:
If a cav player intervenes in a 4+(inf/ranged):1 and makes it a 5+:1, there is just no love possible. Not only are these cav players quite likely damaging their own team, but any effort one player with his own skills to get perhaps a kill out of this mess are neglected completly and i insinuate here it is not about skill at all anymore but about ganking and getting a kill at all cost.

Like infantry doesn't swarm-gank peeps. Not saying it is good or bad, just a observation. You can't blame cav alone for this. Its all over the place. 

[kinngrimm]

Like infantry doesn't swarm-gank peeps. Not saying it is good or bad, just a observation. You can't blame cav alone for this. Its all over the place. 

i say it is mostly bad. And i mostly don't take part in these myself. 3-4 against 1 is the border where i disengage. Not only is it disgusting, but everything above is just stupid. The chances to hit each other. The manpower which is missing somewhere else on the battle field. The longer one dude occupies 3+ people, if he survives or not, the more likely he will get help or all others are just loosing because so many are occupied, so i would rather go and disturb those who would come to his help.

There are circumstances where you have no other choice, like the frontlines of the 2 teams clash together, there are situations where 3+ can happen fast if everything gets mixed up. Still you should calm yourself and disengage, look for another target. Or when you flank in a group in a city map, going around a corner and there is a single dude directly running into your group ... (sometimes thats me ^^)

If there is an existing fight between 3-4+:1. You don't go there straight ahead to make it a 4-5+:1 fight, you look first for a fight 1:1 2:1 1:2 or someone who gets ganged from your team 3+:1 and even the odds. If you kill one dude who is battling one of your guys, you are freeing up resources ... repeat.

but:
I circle sometimes not in close proximity not directly engaged into fights, but several steps away from the combatants. Nevertheless the chances are that a dude comes my way ... i don't say no to presents.

[Trikipum]

at this point i must say,  that I rode with GK a few times,  and they are  highly skilled cav teamplayers,  I havent ridden with any clan yet that refined cav teamwork like them.  They really are like a coordinated swarm, which makes them so despiseable for their victims,  because they are very efficient in what they do.

for example,  if they have cornered a good player,  you will see them circling him,  until they regrouped and go in for the kill.
they work like a pack of carnivores,  and I love watching them do their thing,  even when i am at the receiving end (i have a thing for fighting against great odds though).

so please differentiate between your hate fighting against effective tactics (that dont see many counters)  and your hate against actually game breaking behavior.

edit:  and no,  stragglers are in game,  and they can actually act and fight back.  Dont see it game breaking to attack them.
I do how ever usually not go for straggling peasants,  as i there is no use in killing them and it only breaks their  gaming experience.  so again:  play with reason,  and everything is ok.


edit 2:  doesnt mean gk dont make me rage.  Leed and I had long conversations about how much we hate them.  often they followed us,  shooting down our horses and than leaving us stranded in the middle of no where.
not fun,  but effective.  and their team had to thank them for it,  as back than we usually took down 10-20 enemies every round.

Oh man, this is like you have been tripping on LSD. Organizated swarm?.... Really?. Coz all what i see is gks charging from all directions against a single guy, bumping team mates, killing their own horses and making an amazing horse clusterfuck in the process. Some Gks are good. Most are just average and reckless. And that coordination you say its imagination. They are just a big bunch. But ive seen them killing each other just for getting a poor peasant kill.

[Trikipum]

You are wrong here, i can fight almost anyone on horse back at low speed no matter what weapon they use. Its super hard vs lances but sometimes you sucess even vs good players. And i rarely back stab. If any, the lancers are more back stabby, since the angle nerft any weapon included a stick is dangerous for those. And while i can trick the enemy and attack him from an unexpected  side, as you do in ground, the lancer just have a way to attack and its always in front of the horse. You seem to think there is only a way to slash an enemy from horseback. When in reality, 1h and horse is the most complete class of the whole game, and gives you the most choices and ways to kill an enemy. I mean in the form of number of animations you can use to work out your kills.

[Overdriven]

back to topic:
If a cav player intervenes in a 4+(inf/ranged):1 and makes it a 5+:1, there is just no love possible. Not only are these cav players quite likely damaging their own team, but any effort one player with his own skills to get perhaps a kill out of this mess are neglected completly and i insinuate here it is not about skill at all anymore but about ganking and getting a kill at all cost.

No there's something I do avoid. I only try and help as cav if it's 1vs1 inf. If it's 2vs1 I'll draw my bow and wait for a completely clear shot. If it's more then I won't bother.

[Lizard_man]

One thing i can't stand is spawn rapers, 30 seconds in though and i'll come up from behind the spawn, i see no problem with that...

[kinngrimm]

One thing i can't stand is spawn rapers, 30 seconds in though and i'll come up from behind the spawn, i see no problem with that...

lets say with the end of the euipment/spawn phase of one minute.
Whoever spawns late if a bit of clear minded, he is prepared mentally for incoming cav.
""""
First thing always i do when i spawn , early or late, i switch to anticav protection and go into block position(in my case warspear and shield).
Second is orientation, pan view and zoom if there is cav in close proximity
Third where are my folks, is there incoming gankers somewhere or can i go my left/right flank route.
"""

[Riddaren]

It is somewhat true what Chagan said, that after the lance angle nerf it got a bit more complicated to fight other cavalry players while you could still almost as easily kill infantry players.
The reason for that is also the reason that makes cavalry viable; UNAWARE (and noobish) infantry opponents.

So the nerf didn't actually make cavalry weaker vs infantry, just vs other cavalry.
Imagine the right swing removed for 2 handers. It was a bit like that. One option less to use when attacking.

But to sum it up, it wasn't much of a nerf at all, I just changed my primary attack angle from right side to left side and that's it.
The biggest difference is that cavalry "duels" got less fun. When I say duels I don't mean straightforward attacks but when you are chasing or circling each other.

Anyway, I don't wish to have it changed back. It took quite some time getting used to play after it got changed and I don't want to go through that again.