Get off the roof, Archers!

[Slamz]

The real answer is that every map builder should just include roof access to every building with integrated ladders (either the type that are on the ground and can be clicked up or else just hard ladders on the side of the building).

This solves the problem completely.  Archers can still get on roofs, which gets them away from cavalry and at least gives them a decent chance to stay out of the melee battle, but in the end, the melees have an obvious route to go up and get them.


(And this is all ignoring the fact that another real solution is already in place: the round timer, and the "master of the field" final victory condition.  Maybe this timer needs to be reduced if everyone is really this impatient.)

[Bobthehero]

Its 100% true for Master of the Field considering that its sometimes around the roff, you still get shot while lowering the flag.

[Lichen]

Archers probably didn't go stomping around on thatched roofs back in medieval times.

Maybe not but I have little doubt they used height to their advantage when available. Be it a roof of a small house, a hill etc. Also if anyone has seen the latest robin hood film there is a battle where archers get on the roofs. Not saying the film is a historical documentary but still.

I wonder why both sides of a fight absolutely detested sieges in medieval times. I wonder why the IRL solution to archers camping a roof isn't available, namely, setting it on fire and listening to the bastards scream. Could it be because it's a game?

Another real life solution is going after them with shields and ranged which we have in game. If archers are forced on the ground and are not given some sort of alternative for self preservation like ground stakes or whatever they will adapt their tactics and builds to the new environment. I wonder if the complaints will end? My bet is no.

[Thucydides]

Smoke bombs and torches should be able to burn down houses

[Bryggan]

Couldn't they just make roofs the opposite of invisible walls?  Make them so they can be seen but you'll fall right through if you try step on one.  Sorta like what could happen if you stepped on a real medieval hut's roof.

[rustyspoon]

The real answer is that every map builder should just include roof access to every building with integrated ladders (either the type that are on the ground and can be clicked up or else just hard ladders on the side of the building). enclosed buildings with doors.

This solves the problem completely.  Archers can still get on roofs Melee units can go into buildings, which gets them away from cavalry and at least gives them a decent chance to stay out of the melee ranged battle, but in the end, the melees ranged have an obvious route to go up inside and get them.

Fixed it for you. Now see why this is dumb?

[Leshma]

Just make the roof unreachable already...

It's not that hard, no ladders in battle that's all...

[Gorath]

I wonder why the IRL solution to archers camping a roof isn't available, namely, setting it on fire and listening to the bastards scream.

This is why firebombs or something needs to work if we're not going to do the obvious LOGICAL thing to do and remove fucking ladders from non-siege/strat servers.  Camp a roof or anywhere else, get burned alive by anti camper devices and die en-masse.

[Arcaian]

It's not just the last ranged guy on a roof hiding that's the big problem Fluffy. It's the general idea of "I'mma camp a roof and make half the enemy team useless" that's going on. It just needs to be removed altogether.

Like I pointed out earlier, a ranged guy on the ground can kill the enemy JUST AS WELL as a ranged guy on a roof. Being on the roof doesn't add bonuses to their weapons. It just makes them invulnerable to anything but other ranged, and that's a load of crap.

Thats just like saying you should remove shields because they make it so only ranged can kill them, making half the enemy team useless. I disagree with it IF THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO THE ROOF - if the ladder is destroyed. Otherwise it's fine. And also, the speed bonus increases if you're higher than them.

[Joker86]

Thats just like saying you should remove shields because they make it so only ranged can kill them, making half the enemy team useless. I disagree with it IF THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO THE ROOF - if the ladder is destroyed. Otherwise it's fine. And also, the speed bonus increases if you're higher than them.

You are wrong there, as the big difference is, that an archer on a roof is a) invulnerable to half or even more of the enemy team, but b) can also threaten everyone else on the battlefield.

A shielder keeping his shield up or a two hander hiding behind a wall is immune to half the enemy team, too. But while doing so he isn't a threat for them. There you have the little difference.

[Tears of Destiny]

I think if the cRPG forums were not allowed to have a dozen threads open at all times that complain about range or cav, the majority of posters would suddenly be unsure what to do with themselves, and there would be a lot of akward silences.

[Joker86]

I think if the cRPG forums were not allowed to have a dozen threads open at all times that complain about range or cav, the majority of posters would suddenly be unsure what to do with themselves, and there would be a lot of akward silences.

Well, it's the only way to get things fixed.

I don't play much any more, so I don't know what's up to cav, but concerning rooftop archers: allowing a certain class to basically be a (bigger or minor) threat to everyone while being immune against 1/2 to 2/3 of the enemy team doesn't seem to be something acceptable to me.

There will always be complainers complaining about other people's complaints, never mind if justified or not. It's the famous "stop whining" behaviour, because you can call everything whining. I poisoned your dog, fucked your sister and burned down your house, and now you run to the police? C'mon! Stop whining!

[Kafein]

I poisoned your dog, fucked your sister and burned down your house, and now you run to the police? C'mon! Stop whining!

Quote for truth.

[Jacko]

Ranged will bunch up and create "firing platforms", some will go with the infantry and a few will go solo, this is what they do. "Ranged" is a very stationary class, because firing requires it. Removing ladders will certainly remove camping from most houses, but it will not Remove Camping in general for ranged classes. I do however agree that they need to get the fuck down if they are the only ones left and there is no ladder to them.

Ranged are support, they do not win matches, infantry does (or cav on flat maps). People who believe otherwise are just frustrated. One could simply argue that cavalry needs to get their horses removed because only 1/2 or 1/3 of the team can [actively] engage them. Or shields being OP because only 1/2 - 2/3 can affect them, and so on, and so on..

Removing ladders will prevent rooftop camping, but it will also remove the ability for Everyone to take different routes (where possible).

Imo, it will simply make for lesser gameplay.

[Joker86]

I do however agree that they need to get the fuck down if they are the only ones left and there is no ladder to them.

So an infantryman who decides "It's easier to first kill the squishy archers, removing the enemy team's support, and then engage those tough ironclad infantrymen who stand there without support" has bad luck, because the map grants the enemy team a safe position for their archers? Why should the archers get such a good benefit and other classes should not? And what about the very important aspect of cavalry hunting archers? It is completely removed by ladders!

Ranged are support, they do not win matches, infantry does (or cav on flat maps). People who believe otherwise are just frustrated. One could simply argue that cavalry needs to get their horses removed because only 1/2 or 1/3 of the team can [actively] engage them. Or shields being OP because only 1/2 - 2/3 can affect them, and so on, and so on..

1st: ever fought against a few archers who survived until the end of the round? Even as shield infantry you are doomed, as they probably run faster than, you, all they have to do is to sorround you and you are dead. So I say 3 good archers win against 3 good shieldmen.

2nd: I repeat: usually if you can't harm an enemy he also can't harm you. The only exception of this are horse my old friendchers, that's why I call them horse my old friendchers. It's the pussy way of fighting. Thank god they are not really effective. But an archer on a roof can easily block passages and alleys where a two hander or cavalry would charge through, and doesn't need to be afraid of them by doing so. It's just "Haha I can shoot you and there is nothing you can do to stop me from, except of hiding and thus removing yourself from the battle. Haha."

Removing ladders will prevent rooftop camping, but it will also remove the ability for Everyone to take different routes (where possible).

Imo, it will simply make for lesser gameplay.

Then place barriers on the rooftops and "good" sniping position, so the archers stay on ground and have to fear more than only enemy archers (I know, a horrible thought, ist it?), while all the other, brave classes can use different ways.