Get off the roof, Archers!

[Kophka]

Another real life solution is going after them with shields and ranged which we have in game. If archers are forced on the ground and are not given some sort of alternative for self preservation like ground stakes or whatever they will adapt their tactics and builds to the new environment. I wonder if the complaints will end? My bet is no.

Archers can fight on the ground. They can still kill with out any problems, and be SAFE if they pay attention. What chance do 5 infantry have against 5 archers when the infantry are on a ladder, and the archers are on a roof where they can't be reached? Even if 3/5 of them have shields, the ranged can just shoot around it, and the 2 without (because that's their build, 2 hander/polearmer, etc) are completely helpless to reach the roof-top archers.

[Turkhammer]

ok you can use your "strategy and cunning" to camp the roof.

and i will use my "strategy and cunning" to not engange you in battle, because it wont be cunning to climb the ladder as a 2hander when there are 5 archers up on the roof taking aim at you. its also not cunning to carry a ladder to place on the roof as they will destroy it as soon as they see it.

i guess the only cunning thing left to do as a 2hander is to camp behind a wall and not get hit, while you camp the roof.

enjoy your draws.

this is why i no longer play battle.

Then the remaining 5 archers can come down and slaughter you.

[Turkhammer]

Archers can fight on the ground. They can still kill with out any problems, and be SAFE if they pay attention. What chance do 5 infantry have against 5 archers when the infantry are on a ladder, and the archers are on a roof where they can't be reached? Even if 3/5 of them have shields, the ranged can just shoot around it, and the 2 without (because that's their build, 2 hander/polearmer, etc) are completely helpless to reach the roof-top archers.

If I'm an archer, I would play to my natural advantages, one of which is getting up high.  If you want me down on the ground convince the devs to make arrows that disable infantry if they hit an arm or a leg, or any vital organ.  As it is, arrows now take away hp but have no effect on the target's speed or agility.  Also while you're at it, have the devs work on making a plate wearing 2h get so exhausted after swinging his 4 foot sword non-stop for 5 minutes, that he can't even lift it when he gets to me.  Then we can address complaints about archers getting on roofs.

[Kophka]

If I'm an archer, I would play to my natural advantages, one of which is getting up high.  If you want me down on the ground convince the devs to make arrows that disable infantry if they hit an arm or a leg, or any vital organ.  As it is, arrows now take away hp but have no effect on the target's speed or agility.  Also while you're at it, have the devs work on making a plate wearing 2h get so exhausted after swinging his 4 foot sword non-stop for 5 minutes, that he can't even lift it when he gets to me.  Then we can address complaints about archers getting on roofs.

Wait, do you want the same thing applied to you? If we remove roof camping, but you can get wounded in the arm, unable to draw your bow, or your leg, unable to run away, you'd be fine with that? Or how about an archer collapses with exhaustion after repeatedly drawing (and holding) a moderate to high pull bow for 5 minutes, while trying to stay mobile at the same time? Do these sound like things you want to see?

[Turkhammer]

I rarely play archer.  But if I did I would say that those effects would of course apply to archers as well.   I would love to see wounding effects and fatigue for all classes.  I don't think it will happen with this engine however.  CMP has said that implementation of fatigue would cause too much lag on the servers.

[Kophka]

Look, the whole point I'm trying to make is that being forced to fight on the ground with the rest of the team does NOT in any way, shape, or form negate the ranged play-style. It is either more or less dangerous depending on the team you have, the team they have, and what you do about it. That's just like every other player in the game, isn't it?

Howevery, ranged being on the roof DOES negate every other players build/play-style. Does this make sense, do you get my point?

[Nova77]

2h coward rage. Nobody cares.

[Bobthehero]

Shielders too, with higher ground it a lot easier to ignore a shielder shield due to the lessened force field and head shot him.

[Kafein]

Shielders too, with higher ground it a lot easier to ignore a shielder shield due to the lessened force field and head shot him.

Anyway, shielders are just 2h with 30 degrees of feeble protection in front of them.

[Lichen]

ever fought against a few archers who survived until the end of the round? Even as shield infantry you are doomed, as they probably run faster than, you, all they have to do is to sorround you and you are dead. So I say 3 good archers win against 3 good shieldmen.

I wouldn't call those players 'good' shieldmen if they lose to an equal number of archers.

[Kafein]

I wouldn't call those players 'good' shieldmen if they lose to an equal number of archers.

Try it first. The shielders are slower than the archers. So each archer can flee in it's own direction, each shielder follows one archer. Archers can jumpshoot the other shielders in the back while fleeing from their owner shielder. The shielders die.

Alternatively, all shielders can follow one archer, and get shot in the back by the other archers that have plenty of time to aim.

[Christo]

2h coward rage. Nobody cares.

lol, who is the coward, the one who is hiding his arse at an unreachable roof, hiding when he's exposed to fire, or the others who want to play a good game?

Go to hell, and take your cheap argument with you. 

(click to show/hide)

*10 points if you catch the reference*

[justjr]

The problem is the fckn delay, as long as u don't delay the round run away as much as u want.

[Lichen]

Try it first. The shielders are slower than the archers. So each archer can flee in it's own direction, each shielder follows one archer. Archers can jumpshoot the other shielders in the back while fleeing from their owner shielder. The shielders die.

Alternatively, all shielders can follow one archer, and get shot in the back by the other archers that have plenty of time to aim.

I've played shielder in the past. Unless they have suddenly become crap I can't see the problem. You can run forward quicker than players can backpedal and if an archer chooses to run then don't follow him if he's luring you into a trap (SMART!). Out maneuver them. Yet if archers are that coordinated then maybe they deserve to win. I know many people hate it when archers use teamwork. So now we are at archers>than all now even shielders. Amazing. Next gen I'm going shield again. Maybe noobs can watch and learn.

[Jacko]

Not gonna make a quote pyramid but here's the gist of it:

1st: ever fought against a few archers who survived until the end of the round?[...]

I've been on both sides, and usually, the range side get killed quickly enough. If they work together it's pretty even. The more skilled will win, regardless of class.

2nd: I repeat: usually if you can't harm an enemy he also can't harm you. [...]

The whole point of ranged combat is to effect the other player before he can affect you, and move away before he reaches you. This is fundamentally what ranged classes do. Be it on a roof, behind a barrel, tree or whatever cover they can find.   

Sure, remove ladders, add barriers (which is a fucking pain in the ass I can tell you, at least a weeks work, and all village maps aint even done yet), but it wont change the fact that ranged is a stationary class, made for "camping". While you are enabling one class to effectively engage the other (melee versus ranged), your are disabling the other one from effectively doing the same (ranged versus melee in this case), this is not really a solution, just shifting the "problem" (I'm still not convinced there is a problem) somewhere else.
Hah, I foresee a lot more friendly fire from archers trying to help out in the melee line if the ladders are removed.

Do you remember the time before ladders, with the constant hill camps? I'll take roof camping over hill camping any day. You at least have cover and angles in a village.

It's a dilemma, everyone wants to play their class to the fullest, but the rock paper shotgun aspect of the game makes it more frustrating for some then others. It all depends on the situation you end up in.
I don't see this changing, at all.