Get off the roof, Archers!

[Kophka]

I'm going to have to chime in here, as I hate roof-camping more than anything else in the game.

The arguments for Pro-Roof-Camping (or 1) are : a) Archer is hard! ; b) I'm not a melee fighter! ; c) Cavalry kills me while I shoot at other people! ; d) People fought on roofs in medieval times!

Ok, acknowledged.

The arguments for Anti-Roof-Camping (or 2) are : a) We can't fight back! ; b) It delays rounds! ; c) People leech! ; d) People fought in fields/forests/mountains in medieval times!

That's about it, yeah?

So ,
1a) Yes, archer is hard. It got nerfed pretty badly. Sorry guys.

1b) Melee fighters aren't ranged fighters. You have the advantage anywhere but face to face. Imagine a battle where you archers had absolutely no one to shoot. It would suck, right? That's how melee ppl feel right now.

1c) Try paying attention to cavalry, they really really don't want to fight an aware ANYTHING. Horses die like dodo birds when people are watching them.

1d) Yeah they did. Doesn't mean it's fun for anyone but the people in the nests.

Ok, now,

2a) This is exactly why people hate it so much. On the ground, a ranged fighter can kill just like any other member of his team. When he's on a roof, it becomes a ranged vs ranged fight, making the rest of the team useless. Not cool guys.

2b) It has delayed rounds in the past, but that doesn't mean it always will. But when a round IS delayed, in my experience, it has usually been 3-4 archers up on a roof/tower, refusing to move until all melee is dead.

2c) Same argument as 2b really. People that aren't even ranged get up on the roof/tower with their ranged buddies, and sit there being useless. Not the archers fault, but definitely an argument for getting rid of ladders in battle.

2d) This is what people think of when they think of medieval battle, maybe because that's how the media told us it was done. The reason I prefer to think like this is because EVERYONE can be useful and participate in the battle from beginning to end. Good argument for sticking to field battles, rather than villages/towns OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

I think the Anti-Roof-Camping arguments hold a lot more water than the pro's, and I can't wait until they figure out some way to make this crap go away.

[Gmnotutoo]

An essay on the need to buffing katanas


The subject of the need to buffing katanas has been covered intensively by the world press over the past decade. Underestimate the need to buffing katanas at your peril. While it has been acknowledged that it has an important part to play in the development of man, its influence on western cinema has not been given proper recognition. Inevitably the need to buffing katanas is often misunderstood by the aristocracy, who form the last great hope for our civilzation. Relax, sit back and gasp as I display the rich tapestries of the need to buffing katanas.

While some scholars have claimed that there is no such thing as society, this is rubbish. When The Tygers of Pan Tang sang 'It's lonely at the top. Everybody's trying to do you in' [1] , they globalised an issue which had remained buried in the hearts of our ancestors for centuries. A society without the need to buffing katanas is like a society without knowledge, in that it cleary plays a significant role amongst the developing middle classes.

Some analysts have been tempted to disregard the need to buffing katanas. I haven’t. It has been said that the one thing in society which could survive a nuclear attack is the need to buffing katanas. This is incorrect, actually cockroaches are the only thing which can survive a nuclear attack.

There has been a great deal of discussion in the world of economics, centred on the value of the need to buffing katanas. We will primarily be focusing on the Fish-Out-Of-Water model, a lovely model. Weaboo's = profit.   


There is no longer a need to argue the importance of the need to buffing katanas, it is clear to see that the results speak for themselves. The question which surfaces now is, how? Even a child could work out that the annual military budget has always depended upon the need to buffing katanas to a certain extent, but now more that ever. Perhaps to coin a phrase the need to buffing katanaseconomics will be the buzz word of the century

Politics was once a game featuring competitors from elite classes. Comparing the electoral politics of most Western and Eastern European countries is like comparing night and day.

One quote comes instantly to mind when examining this topic. I mean of course the words of jazz singer Demetrius T. Time 'Political idealists must ideally deal, for I daily list my ideals politically.' [2] One cannot help but agree when faced with the need to buffing katanas, that this highlights an important issue. It is a well known 'secret' that what prompted many politicians to first strive for power was the need to buffing katanas.

One thing's certain. The Human species liberally desires the need to buffing katanas, and what's more human than politics?

In my opinion the need to buffing katanas deserves all of the attention it gets. It enriches, ensures financial stability and figures show it's a winning formular.

As a parting shot here are the words of super-star Keanu Garfunkel: 'the need to buffing katanas is the new rock and roll! And the new opera!'

[Tzar]

Kophka

Good point tobad they the archers cant seem to fuckin get the point that its not ok to be immortal 

Ladders should be in siege and that´s about it they have nothing to do in battle mode other then turning the battle mode into siege...



Look at it this way imagine if you played siege and the attackers didnt have ladders or siege towers ect etc....

[TortoiseAndTheHare]

+1 for satire (on the op.)

And where the fuck are our pavises, already!?

SERIOUSLY! WHERE ARE THEY? I made a crossbow character for my last gen but I abandoned it and went back to lancer cav and then made a thrower with a pavise for fun. The reason? WHERE THE FUCK IS MY PAVISE. Crossbow men need pavises damn it ;_;.

[rustyspoon]

The thing about breaking ladders is you have to swing a weapon to do it and the thing about swinging weapons is that it makes it so you can't possibly be shielding while you do it so as long as your team has archers or throwers, you can just harrass or kill the ladder breakers while melee guys charge up the ladder. It's not rocket science.

This makes me think that you've never used a ladder ever, nor seen one in action.

[theero]

To carry my own weight in this debate I think I will make my next main build an xBow-man who ALWAYS has ladders with him, regardless of the map. If you don't come and get me, I'll pew pew you until you GTX the server and return here to whine  .

 Also, deal with it.

[justme]

ma jebem vam mater

[Arcaian]

Try to think about it as if you were an archer. Personally, I play 2h on the Aus server so I may have different experiences to you, but I'm sure it would be the same. As an archer you can play as a couple of types of archers. The first is a hybrid, who go bow and melee weapon, normally 1h. They go on the open battlefield, and can go quite well. Most people have no problem with them. Then there are the high ath, fairly low damage archers. They run around and sprint away from people when they get close. A lot of melee players have a problem with them, but thats not part of the debate. Then there are the archers with high power draw, low athletics - the normal archers from medieval times. They have low ironflesh and low athletics, so how do they defend themselves ? The hide behind things. Or where melee characters have a disadvantage/trouble getting to. It's logical. As a 2h player, you have the high agi spammers (like the ath archers). No-one gets overly annoyed with them. Then you have the normal, medium 18/21 or 21/18 players. No-one gets annoyed at them. Then you have the crazy str players, that are around 30/9 or something crazy like that. Their only defence is their armour, they can't retreat or run away. What you are asking the str archers to do is effectively loose their armour - what would you as a high str archer say if you saw people calling for no more medium or heavy armour ?

[Armbrust_Schtze]

i hear gay archer noob whining..

what about letting the shielders take the archers roof?

and they are up there because they can rally there without being fast fucked by cav/infantry.

[Arcaian]

I'm 2h, not archer. Also, yes. One reason they are up there is it's harder for infantry to get them there. Tactical decisions like that don't make them OP - it's like you hiding behind a shielder - does that make you OP ?

[Arcaian]

"This masterwork steel-bolt will send you straight to hell Tincan!" - nice sig, looks like you're the gay archer noob whining .

[Leshma]

Buff c-rpg archers please!

Not their class, not their stats, not their bows, buff their brains!

[Joker86]

Archers, get off the roof already.

Why are you up there? It's not fair, no one can reach you to hit you unless they have a ranged weapon or a ladder. Why should everyone have to carry a ranged weapon or a ladder? Those take up a lot of slots and how dare you force the other team to have to bring some ladders just because you did. You're stalling the round and making all of us get less EXP and gold per hour, you aren't just hurting us, you're hurting yourselves too.

Archers, get off the roof already.

Are you just saying people should not complain about players who have godmode against 66% of all enemies?

The only way you should be playing the game is to equip a two hander or pole arm and a lot of armor or MAYBE a one hander and shield combo and then run into melee in a honourable and straight forward manner. I'm getting tired of all this tactics shit, and THINKING and using all this dumb shit the game provides you with like ranged weapons and ladders.

Archers, get off the roof already.

I wouldn't go so far and call the choice of your position "tactics" already. And the simple fact that certain behaviour is possible and grants you with some advantage doesn't automatically mean it's tactics and good or acceptable. That's why ladderpulting is forbidden.

I am for removing the ladders and your teammates using tactics. Not the roof is supposed to protect you from melee attacks, your teammates are. Moar teamplay ftw, less pussy behaviour.

And further more, once you have your two hander equiped and are playing like A MAN, don't try and be all clever and hide and shit, and try and ambush people and try to manuever around, trying to isolate people and overwhelm them and all this shit. Who do you think you are, fucking JOHN RAMBO or something? Are you and your clan mates like the guys in Band of Brothers or something trying to out fight the SS or some shit? KNOCK THAT SHIT OFF, YOU'RE STALLING THE ROUND AND ROBBING ME OF MY EXP AND GOLD.

Archers, get off the roof already.

Because Ninjaing works soooooooo well, the maps have no borders, no enemies - especially cavalry and horse archers - are going around the flank and.... oh wait! 

Also, when you have your Bec or your Flamberge or whatever, don't block attacks like a my old friend. Can people stop equiping shields and trying to weapon block all the time? It's not fair. People can't hit you if you're blocking and dodging around and all this shit when you fight, it makes their attacks do NO DAMAGE, ZERO. Knock that shit off you're stalling the round and making all of us get less EXP and gold per hour, you aren't just hurting us, you're hurting yourselves too.

Archers, get off the roof already.

I think you are overshooting here...

This game is about rounds ending promptly and me getting my EXP and my GOLD, it is not some bullshit medieval combat simulator for you and your my old friend reinactor buddies to have pretend battles with and try and out wit and out play eachother while you fuck over all the good honest players like myself who don't want to have to plan against your "strategy" and "cunning". We came here to equip whatever the fuck gear WE PLANNED ON (a two hander, duh) and have it kill people we swing it at. OH AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON HOW GAY CAV ARE.

Archers, well, I think you get my point by now. STOP BEING my old friendS.

Ugh, writing this post just screwed me out of so much EXP and GOLD.

The first part is right. Rounds should end as quickly as possible, not for the sake of XP and Gold (although it's quite an important argument for many people, I suppose), but simply for the fact of increasing the time you actually PLAY, instead of watching in spectator mode. Shorter rounds = more playing for everyone.

And yes, this is NO medieval simulator. In medieval battles you tried to gain an unfair advantage over your enemy, because noone likes fair chances if it's about his own life. But this here is a game. Games a) have rules, and b) are supposed to make fun. Combining a) and b) leads to the conlusion that games needs FAIR rules (which is mostly accomplished by the same rules for everyone).

How about this strategy and cunning: you shoot from a hill, your pikemen and shield bearers cover you. Tadaaaaa! You just made a fool of yourself, thinking that other players are not willing to use tactics, but you are not seeing that in fact it's YOU!

____________________________________________________

I still think camping roofs, especially with breaking the ladders afterwards, should be forbidden.

- In Native balance works without ladders
- Godmode against 66% of all players is inacceptable, especially if you are still able to attack them in return
- It is no tactic, as it is making you completely independant from your teammates, but tactics involve the effective COMBINATION of all classes

IMHO archers are supposed to be shooting from an elevated position on the ground, being protected by teammates. They have high offensive capabilities (being able to attack anyone on sight over range), this has to be paid with low defensive skills. Camping on a roof removes this BALANCING aspect.

So just shut up. Stay on ground and stop whining about the roof whining. It's justified.

[Gorath]

take ladders out of the game battle

^
yeah, that.

[Bryggan]

I'm inf with a few jarids and personally I generally have no problem with roof campers, accepting it as a valid tactic. The only thing is that it only helps for awhile.  While it is great having arrows dropped into the guy you're fighting and makes for some easy kills, at some point the advantage turns into a disadvantage.  I've seen a lot of games when, thanks to roof top archers, we take the lead at about 12-8.  But with fewer targets the rooftop archers stop hitting people, plus all the survivors are aware of the killing zones, so the numerical advantage is lost and suddenly the infantry on the ground are taken out by enemy infantry who actually have archer support, or some tin can cav popping out of alleys and such.  Then suddenly the four archers and 2 infantry on the roof are suddenly alone.

They also must realize one thing- there are no reinforcements coming!!! Buying time won't help, it just irritates all the dead while they wait for you to try get that 5% chance of killing some guy on the ground who gets bored of standing behind cover