Author Topic: How big is your computer mouse?  (Read 8537 times)

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Offline bredeus

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2011, 10:57:27 am »
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Offline Siiem

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2011, 10:58:43 am »
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http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/02/does-dpi-matter-in-gaming-mice-one-mouse-maker-says-no.ars

Hmmm Steelseries the company that makes mice vs random article writers...

One of the most used mice among FPS pros is IM 3.0... with staggering 400 dpi.

Hmm I always trust random article writers! Fuck people who actually work with said thing.

Offline Gorath

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2011, 11:24:02 am »
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http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/02/does-dpi-matter-in-gaming-mice-one-mouse-maker-says-no.ars

Hmmm Steelseries the company that makes mice vs random article writers...

One of the most used mice among FPS pros is IM 3.0... with staggering 400 dpi.

You mean an article written by a guy in the industry of trying to make money by getting you to buy his product instead of someone elses?  Yeah, credible.  Hell I'm sure I can pull up an article by another brand which completely contradicts this guy in order to sell THEIR product.  I'll take the testing and conclusions put to article by actual gamers who give a shit that their "higher sensitivity" in windows/games makes your mouse curser SKIP pixels and get all jaggy instead of smooth.  Something you can test for yourself.  The fact that this dude is spouting something which is completely false and easily proven to be false by anyone with a multi-dpi mouse and MS paint for instance is pretty telling actually.

The reason they use it is personal preference.  Also even though it has a low DPI, the polling rate on the IM 3.0 (IM series in general tbh) is insane.

"

IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0

Key Features

Optical Tracking Performance

Legendary accuracy delivered from an optical engine that produces 9000 Frames per Second, Maximum Speed of 54+ Inches per Second, and Maximum Acceleration of 25Gs combined with Microsoft's Intelligent Tracking System with a centered optical port. "

That means it's taking a snapshot of it's location on the mousepad 9000 times per second and has an amazing speed threshold for snap shots.

However the 3 most popular gaming mice that the pro's use are, in no particular order:
IM 3.0
MX518
DeathAdder

It comes down mostly to comfort and personal preference between hi-sensitivity players vs low-sensitivity players.  That and whatever their sponsors provide, which for the majority of them is from SteelSeries or Razor.

400 DPI is great for a lo-sens player, most hi-sens gamers though usually hover between 1800 and 3500.  I still encourage you to do the MS paint test if you still think that DPI has nothing to do with precision and tracking smoothness vs just cranking up the OS/ settings.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 11:28:20 am by Gorath »
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Xant

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2011, 11:30:45 am »
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Yeah it's crazy how someone from Steelseries with their 3200 CPI optical mouse and 5001 CPI laser mouse is totally downplaying the importance of CPI. Totes just trying to get people to buy their product.
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Offline Gorath

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2011, 11:50:31 am »
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Yeah it's crazy how someone from Steelseries with their 3200 CPI optical mouse and 5001 CPI laser mouse is totally downplaying the importance of CPI. Totes just trying to get people to buy their product.

You're missing the point of it.  You're looking at a comment from a SALESMAN basically about the importance of DPI or lack thereof in gaming.  I can find another article from a different SALESMAN that refutes it.  I can also, if I look hard enough, probably find an article from yet another SALESMAN that will state that controllers are the best thing for gaming.

What that particular salesman is saying however is completely wrong which is easily proven over and over again in article after article and test after test.  Hell just the damn definition of what DPI is/does refutes is (even if it should be PPI).

"Taking Advantage of High-Definition Mouse Movement



Advanced Technology Group (ATG)
 
April 2006
 
Introduction


A standard computer mouse returns data at 400 dots per inch (DPI), whereas a high-definition mouse generates data at 800 DPI or greater. This makes input from a high-definition mouse much more precise than that from a standard mouse. However, high-definition data cannot be obtained through the standard WM_MOUSEMOVE messages. In general, games will benefit from high-definition mouse devices but games that obtain mouse data using just WM_MOUSEMOVE won't be able to access the full, un-filtered resolution of the mouse."

I'm not saying that you have to use any specific DPI, or mouse brand/type/model or anything.  I'm simply telling you that by the very technical definition and application of DPI you're just wrong in your statement about what it is, does and is used for.
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Xant

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2011, 11:52:38 am »
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Yes, a salesman is making a comment about the importance of "DPI" or lack thereof in gaming. What's the "DPI" of this salesman's products? 3200 and 5001. Doesn't make sense.

It's real impressive when what you quote can't even get the terms right. It's CPI, not DPI. It's ok to say DPI when discussing it on the forums and shit, but if you're trying to be all scientificial and shizzle you should get the terms right.
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Offline Erasmas

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2011, 11:58:46 am »
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.

sorry wrong place
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Offline Gorath

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2011, 12:01:35 pm »
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It's CPI, not DPI. It's ok to say DPI when discussing it on the forums and shit, but if you're trying to be all scientificial and shizzle you should get the terms right.

No man.   :rolleyes:
If we were really being accurate it would be PPI for pixels per inch.

Also your article also uses the standard "DPI" term.  Speaking of your article, didn't take long at all to find the counter-article to it at the bottom of the page actually:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/03/razer-fires-back-why-dpi-in-a-gaming-mouse-does-matter.ars

Gee, what did I tell you, some other salesman for some other company ranting about why he disagrees.

Again, you're arguing nothing at this point because the point was made that you were wrong, and you have as of yet to disprove that.

*A dark haired fellow in black lamellar strolls into the thread with a serious look upon his face.  He confidently raises his finger and opens his mouth to speak when he overhears the familliar sounds of bickering about nothing permeating the air.  Upon hearing said argument over nothing he lowers his arm and turns to leave, quietly muttering:
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sorry wrong place
"
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 12:04:03 pm by Gorath »
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Xant

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2011, 12:07:09 pm »
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http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?10213-DPI-vs-CPI-The-real-deal

Except Razerguy doesn't make any other "counter-arguments" except for "it is so." This is the only thing he justifies it by:
"I think gamers care about DPI and I do think the term makes sense for today’s mice. We pioneered this industry back in 1999 when we came out with the first gaming mouse offering 2000 DPI—at that time gamers were told by our competitors that 800 DPI was enough," Krakoff told Ars. "Now people are saying 1600 DPI is enough, just like there were “purists” who believed in silent movies, black and white TV or perhaps film rather than digital cameras. By the way, I could discuss CD vs. vinyl for days."

Whereas the Steelseries guy actually backs up why he thinks so.

And no, the point was made that you are wrong, you've yet to disprove that.
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Offline Gorath

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2011, 12:21:19 pm »
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And no, the point was made that you are wrong, you've yet to disprove that.

Dude.  Definition of DPI.  What it means your mouse is doing.  Basic fucking tests.
You


are



wrong.


DPI is not just extra "sensitivity" like you claimed or just a bunch of hoohah that was cooked up by marketing.  It is quite literally how fucking precise your mouse is.  Show me anything that says DPI/CPI/PPI isn't the measurement used for how many "dots" *counts* (pixels/pulses) per inch your mouse is taking a reading of.  Hell your dude's best argument consists of:
"but where is the real value in that?" Rom asked. "That doesn't make you more precise or accurate; I would argue that it does exactly the opposite. A higher DPI in a mouse doesn't offer a lot of value, and it is not a benchmark for how precise or awesome the mouse is. It's simply a measure of sensitivity."

It's just his NON GAMER opinion about the value of increased speed from his misinforming idea of PPI (we're sticking with that from now on, going old school).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_dpi#Mouse_speed
"Mouse speed
 
The computer industry often measures mouse sensitivity in terms of counts per inch (CPI), commonly expressed incorrectly as dots per inch (DPI) – the number of steps the mouse will report when it moves one inch. In early mice, this specification was called pulses per inch (ppi).[15] If the default mouse-tracking condition involves moving the cursor by one screen-pixel or dot on-screen per reported step, then the CPI does equate to DPI: dots of cursor motion per inch of mouse motion. The CPI or DPI as reported by manufacturers depends on how they make the mouse; the higher the CPI, the faster the cursor moves with mouse movement. However, software can adjust the mouse sensitivity, making the cursor move faster or slower than its CPI. Current software can change the speed of the cursor dynamically, taking into account the mouse's absolute speed and the movement from the last stop-point. In most software[specify] this setting is named "speed", referring to "cursor precision". However, some software[specify] names this setting "acceleration", but this term is in fact incorrect. The mouse acceleration, in the majority of mouse software, refers to the setting allowing the user to modify the cursor acceleration: the change in speed of the cursor over time while the mouse movement is constant.
 
For simple software, when the mouse starts to move, the software will count the number of "counts" received from the mouse and will move the cursor across the screen by that number of pixels (or multiplied by a rate factor, typically less than 1). The cursor will move slowly on the screen, having a good precision. When the movement of the mouse passes the value set for "threshold", the software will start to move the cursor more quickly, with a greater rate factor. Usually, the user can set the value of the second rate factor by changing the "acceleration" setting.
 
Operating systems sometimes apply acceleration, referred to as "ballistics", to the motion reported by the mouse. For example, versions of Windows prior to Windows XP doubled reported values above a configurable threshold, and then optionally doubled them again above a second configurable threshold. These doublings applied separately in the X and Y directions, resulting in very nonlinear response.[38]"

Simply put, with a higher information rate the tracking/movement of your cursor will be smoother and more precise/accurate to the movement of the mouse itself without any skipped or lost pixels.

That's just how it is.
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Offline Siiem

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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2011, 09:32:48 pm »
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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2011, 09:38:56 pm »
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I like my mouse.
My mouse is blue and black with many buttons.
I also like Gus.
Gus is a cool guy.
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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2011, 10:01:41 pm »
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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #73 on: September 07, 2011, 05:24:48 am »
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Since i am left hander I am using really nice Logitech product who is first on market product for 10 percent of population.
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The older version of this mouse is what I use. It came with a keyboard that has "Wave" on it, so I assume it's a "logitec Wave". I don't care for the DPI of the mouse, just as long as it moves where I want it to and when I want it to. I'm not at all fussy with that stuff, I just prefer to have a mouse that doesn't clunk around and also wires are a right pain in the arse despite the constant need to change the batteries! :)
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Re: How big is your computer mouse?
« Reply #74 on: September 07, 2011, 11:56:09 am »
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Is nobody except me using the Logitech MX 518?

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Also, this is my simple Keyboard:

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okay as it goes on my headset Sennheiser PC 161, very comfortable:

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