Weapons which need attention

[_JoG_]

REPOST IN A MORE APPROPRIATE TOPIC

I think that the War Spear in general is kinda a dumb weapon at the moment. There are two hander swords that do just as much pierce damage with thrust, with just slightly shorter range and slightly slower, but with the addition of huge cut damage on swings.

I think the War Spear should have a little higher thrust damage, just so it's fulfilling a niche, instead of just being a less effective sword.

Just name a 2h sword with 150-20=130 reach, 95 speed, and a price of 2258 gold. All swords are either fast but significantly shorter or slow and slightly shorter. The cheapest 2h sword (a bastard sword) has 30 less reach (a HUGE disadvantage) at ~30% higher price.
War spear has its own niche. It's a cheap, perfectly spammable, long (it outranges every 2h sword except the flamberge which is absolutely incomparable in terms of price) polearm. If you want a sword-like polearm, go for hafted blades. They are much better than any 2h sword in their price category (actually, the cheapest bastard sword is more expensive, ~10 cm shorter, and deals about the same damage as the hafted blade. Long hafted blade is much cheaper than normal 2h swords while outranging all of them).

[Gorath]

(it outranges every 2h sword except the flamberge which is absolutely incomparable in terms of price)

No, you're forgetting animations affecting the length.  2h swords for the most part out reach most polearms by a fair deal.

[_JoG_]

No, you're forgetting animations affecting the length.  2h swords for the most part out reach most polearms by a fair deal.

No, they don't.
Animations + polearm grip make the actual polearm length ~20 cm shorter than the length you see in the weapon characteristics. The length of 1 1/2h swords is less than the length of the first cheap hafted blade, the length of 2h swords is less than the length of the (still cheaper!) long hafted blade.
Don't forget, in M&B the length of the polearm is considered as the distance between the tip of the weapon and the place where you hold it with your right hand (that's why, say, the model of the warspear is taller than a model of the warrior even though the warspear is "only" 150 cm long).

Actually, I don't care much about weapon lengths and still use my bastard sword which is outranged by pretty much anything in this game. The only time I want my weapon to be longer is when I'm attacked by a group of 2-3 people in a loose formation and EVERYONE of them starts backpedaling when I actually try to engage them in a combat.

[Tired]

My main issue with all of this is that people create character builds around specific weapons and then heirloom these weapons. 
This takes many, many hours.  It's an awfully disappointing feeling when one day you see that your weapon has been nerfed to the point where several other weapons, which were once on the sidelines, have become vastly superior and leave you with a disadvantage. 
Get a good system, get it as balanced as possible (i don't think it's possible to perfectly balance everything but maybe they can come close) and then don't ever revisit weapon balance. 

[EponiCo]

I kind of agree, constant rebalancing is bad, there is also some kind of internal balance going on. F.e. if many people use shields poleaxes become more useful.
However, you shouldn't just look for the most OP weapon and then heirloom it, otoh.

[Gorath]

No, they don't.
Animations + polearm grip make the actual polearm length ~20 cm shorter than the length you see in the weapon characteristics.

And the animations for 2hers give them an effective +80 length on thrusts (different numbers for other swings, but still 2hers gain reach on every swing rather than lose it) than what you see in the weapon characteristics.  This has been known since beta after many many tests that are still buried somewhere in the TW forums.

[_JoG_]

And the animations for 2hers give them an effective +80 length on thrusts (different numbers for other swings, but still 2hers gain reach on every swing rather than lose it) than what you see in the weapon characteristics.  This has been known since beta after many many tests that are still buried somewhere in the TW forums.

In Native, it does. In cRPG, it does not (due to modified stab animation).

[Christo]

In Native, it does. In cRPG, it does not (due to modified stab animation).

It's still outranges a regular polearm though.

War spear has its own niche. It's a cheap, perfectly spammable, long (it outranges every 2h sword except the flamberge which is absolutely incomparable in terms of price) polearm.

Lol? That's utter bullshit. What's the strength of the War spear? Not really the slashes, aye? The thrust damage is the key here, and two-handers outrange the War spear, even with the new stab animation. The length got a *bit* shorter, but it's still there.

[Belmont]

Just here to remind everyone that this topic is about weapons that should be changed in order to make them worthwhile and not advantages and disadvantages of a specific weapon category, thanks.

[Gorath]

In Native, it does. In cRPG, it does not (due to modified stab animation).

Oh good point.  Might be time to get a new round of testing going on to see what the animation/length difference is currently.

[Tired]

Just here to remind everyone that this topic is about weapons that should be changed in order to make them worthwhile and not advantages and disadvantages of a specific weapon category, thanks.

Good point, and with this I return to my previous complaints...
FIX THE HIGHLAND CLAYMORE!!!!! IT IS TERRIBLE.
Thanks

[Vexus]

Hafted Blade
weight 2.25
requirement 8
spd rtng 95
weapon length 132
swing damage 36, cut
thrust damage 20 pierce

Penalty with Shield

2,450 gold

Vs

Long Hafted Knobbed Mace
weight 2.8
requirement 12
spd rtng 95
weapon length 133
swing damage 31, blunt
thrust damage 21 blunt

Knockdown

3,328 gold

Why should you go cut when you can go blunt, knockdown and same speed range for a little extra gold?

By the shape hafted blade (Not the longer version) wouldn't be bad as a bonus to shields weapon since the only 2 axes polearm has available cheap are very slow... say something like this would be better imo:

Hafted Blade
weight 3
requirement 10
spd rtng 94
weapon length 132
swing damage 36, cut
thrust damage 20 pierce

Penalty with Shield
Bonus against shield

(Don't forget polearms get -22 range from grip so it won't be that long)

[Noble Crassius]

You nailed it on the head - extra cost. Knobbed mace is better therefore costs more! shit doesn't always have to be balanced.

[Vexus]

Around 900 is hardly any costly it's only 45 gold more in repairs then hafted blade.

Polearms don't have a decent "cheap" axe unlike 2h and polearms should be the weapons that focus on bonus to shield.

[cutsomecheesewithmybow]

Waraxe is decent.