Maps in Development

[Kong Ming]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen!

This will henceforth be the discussion thread for independent maps that are being developed specifically for the cRPG servers.  It is intended to be a place where sceners can post info about the maps they are working on, and get feedback from the cRPG community.  Any online FPS-style game is only as good as the maps you play on.  Let's work as a community to make cRPG's the best around!

A few etiquette rules to help keep things managable:

1.  Sceners, please post screenshots inside spoilers to keep this thread streamlined.  Also, provide a specific name for your map so we can refer to it quickly and easily in discussion.

2.  Commentators, please keep the discussion about the maps that are specifically being posted here and how to improve or build upon them.  If you have ideas for new maps, there is a thread specifically for this topic here.  (Yes, I apparently like the word "specific")

Submit New Map Ideas Here.


I am also going to post this link which is Airith's very helpful post about guidelines for maps that are submitted to the NA servers as well as a map list for both the NA1 and NA2 servers.

Map Submission Guidelines


Thanks for helping us get the conversation about map development and improvement up and running!

  -Barely Legal


NOTE:  This discussion is being transfered from the TaleWorlds forums.  Sceners please repost your maps from that board if you wish to continue discussing them here.  Thanks for your patience!

[Warcat]

Here's a map I'm working on, should be done soon. It's called Gatehouse Line
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It's fairly symmetrical and should provide decent xp. Inside the gatehouses is a series of rooms that go all the way across the middle of the map so that you can see from one end to the other.

[Nasturtium]

Here's a map I'm working on, should be done soon. It's called Gatehouse Line
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It's fairly symmetrical and should provide decent xp. Inside the gatehouses is a series of rooms that go all the way across the middle of the map so that you can see from one end to the other.

Nice, we need more indoors maps, Is that the winery_interior prop blown up you used for the room? This map (unlike my jumbled prop-heavy messes) has a simple objective with clear symetrical lines, unlike many user-made maps for other fps style games C-rpg does not have many (if any!) maps like this. You might want to hang a few lights here and there, unless the darkness in what you are going for. Keep up the good work!

[Thranduil]

Here's a map I'm working on, should be done soon. It's called Gatehouse Line
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It's fairly symmetrical and should provide decent xp. Inside the gatehouses is a series of rooms that go all the way across the middle of the map so that you can see from one end to the other.

Very interesting.  I had something similar up on the servers a while back that was generally well received.  Mine just needs resizing since it's too large and was dropping fps like flies.    Yours should do well I believe.....oh wait....hold the phones.....THAT is at least 5 times bigger than mine was!!!!! 

Okay, MAYBE it's size won't kill some people, but remember, most players don't have very good gaming computers, so keep that in mind.  It looks cool, but if that's your horse I see there, (and I do believe it is), you sir have created quite the large place.

This one is mine:

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Note that the tiles are much smaller on mine, so you can tell mine is much smaller than yours.  Keep in mind, Crashing Winery was an appropriate name for my map since it was so large that people's pc's couldn't handle it.  My laptop should run your map decently well, but I don't think many others will. 

Just a word of caution.  Also, if people like it but it's too large....be prepared for a grueling session of resizing.....I actually just gave up resizing mine and am currently in the process of building it back from scratch......which may be an even greater pain, so I may just go back to resizing! 



Oh, hey, Nasturtium!  On TaleWorlds you asked about weather:

Correct me if I am on but isn't the in game editor a map editor? Its fairly easy to learn, you don't need python or any of that jazz.

 Like Kong_Said, is there a way to manually set fog/weather/time of day without digging around in some obscure bit of code? Is it server dependent? I would love to be able to permanently set fog in my maps. Thanks!

I'm fairly certain that it is server dependent the way it is now.  I don't know if that's something chadz and the crew can change or if it's hardcoded by TaleWorlds.

[Warcat]

Very interesting.  I had something similar up on the servers a while back that was generally well received.  Mine just needs resizing since it's too large and was dropping fps like flies.    Yours should do well I believe.....oh wait....hold the phones.....THAT is at least 5 times bigger than mine was!!!!! 

Okay, MAYBE it's size won't kill some people, but remember, most players don't have very good gaming computers, so keep that in mind.  It looks cool, but if that's your horse I see there, (and I do believe it is), you sir have created quite the large place.

This one is mine:

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Note that the tiles are much smaller on mine, so you can tell mine is much smaller than yours.  Keep in mind, Crashing Winery was an appropriate name for my map since it was so large that people's pc's couldn't handle it.  My laptop should run your map decently well, but I don't think many others will. 

Just a word of caution.  Also, if people like it but it's too large....be prepared for a grueling session of resizing.....I actually just gave up resizing mine and am currently in the process of building it back from scratch......which may be an even greater pain, so I may just go back to resizing! 



Oh, hey, Nasturtium!  On TaleWorlds you asked about weather:

I'm fairly certain that it is server dependent the way it is now.  I don't know if that's something chadz and the crew can change or if it's hardcoded by TaleWorlds.

Thanks for the feedback, I never really even though of the building as being a potential problem for fps, however since the building is relatively unimportant to the way the map actually play's, I might just take it out and put it on flat ground.

[Nasturtium]

Finished my cave map!! Ill try to get it on this weekend

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[Chasab]

With the new patch i had some concerns about maps in the other thread the big ones are

"forested hill"

"Horseshoe"(possibly spawns on 2 sides of a desert, a dual leveled building in the middle)

A winter map, with a villiage on a hill. one side spawns in the villiage the other out on the flats with no cover

With a heavy emphasis on winning, with losers potentially losing/breaking equipment, i think side balance really needs to be paramount when maps get put into the live rotation.

for forested hill you mentioned that you were moving the spawns so the team that used to spawn up on the hill with tree cover would be down, thats great and probably all that needs to be done. Like i said before its a great looking map, but the "rp element" you were going for just kills one side, and unfortunately nobody RP's in this game anyways.

On the horseshoe map one team starts very close to the main building where alot of the fighting happens, as a result they have the ability to get all of their tin cans, and archers to the roof and are able to block the stairs,  before the first of enemy team even reaches the bottom of the stairs, constant archer fire, and the threat of cav turns this into a mini siege map for one side without autospawns. two things to make it a little more balanced, move the second teams spawn a bit closer to the building so that fighting will start with both teams getting to the top first, and adding a ladder to the secondary building so both sides have access.

For the wintery town map there is really nothing you can do there is no cover for the team starting below in the flats, maybe move them to the top of the big hill and let them start the attack from high up. that presents a unique battle. high ground with no cover vs low ground with lots of cover.

[Thranduil]

Finished my cave map!! Ill try to get it on this weekend

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THIS will be interesting. Hopefully as fun as it looks!  I'm looking forward to playing it. 

[Nasturtium]

Interesting was right ^^ on the first test a third of the players whined to change the map, a third loved it and a third found bugs  I doubt this one will survive long, the engine was just not made for indoor areas.

[Thranduil]

Interesting was right ^^ on the first test a third of the players whined to change the map, a third loved it and a third found bugs  I doubt this one will survive long, the engine was just not made for indoor areas.

It's ironic you should say that.  I'm working on resizing my Crashing Winery map which was on for a short while a few months ago.  People liked it, but it was too large and too system intensive.  I was then tasked with resizing it.  That was put on hold until after finals, and then X-mas happened, so it dropped off my to do list for a while.

 I had to start over from scratch since my pc has never liked me running that scene, much less in edit mode.  Keeps crashing, thus the name.    Took me a little over 2 weeks to finish it the first time.


!!!WARNING!!!  spoiler has a lot of pictures....around 12 actually

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Anyway, I've currently scaled mine down by 2/3, and I only have the building and a few walls--no knick knacks to make it interesting or even look like a winery.  My fps are taking a hit still, so I scale it down ANOTHER 2/3, so essentially I scaled it down to 4/9.  I still see the same fps numbers.  As you said, the engine just doesn't seem made for indoor maps.  Also, I'm running on a pretty decent laptop.  I run the game nearly maxed out, and I've even tried turning my settings down low, but no dice.  I was able to edit some on my friend's pc, which is how I got the screenshots, but his pc is a gaming mammoth, so he doesn't count. 

What I've found, and what I've been told is that most people play on pcs that can't handle very large maps, or maps with lots of stuff.  So, when I say that I play 90% of all the maps online with 90~110 fps consistently, and my Crashing Winery knocks me down to 50~60 fps unless I'm staring at a wall, I think this is a lost cause......Airith, I'm sending you a pm apologizing right now...this map just isn't very conceivable as I once thought it was.

[Kung Fu Jesus]

Ok, that cave map...

Sorry to say, I find it too difficult to play. There are a lot of spots where players can get stuck inside the walls. Also, it just becomes a mess of players stuck in narrow hallways. It was a good try but I think this one needs to go away.

[Kong Ming]

Here's the 1.3 version of Horseshoe.  I've made several large changes to try and address issues that existed with 1.2.  If anyone wants to take a look at it and give some feedback it would be appreciated.

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2489

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The principle changes are thus:

# Change log:
#
# 1.3
# -Significantly reduced the height and scale of "the Hill" and altered the Hill's building. Re-added access to the roof.
# -Moved the Hill's staircases to an even more central position.
# -Moved Battle team spawns to diversify conflict areas and spread out traffic.
# -Added the Guard Tower to the Island to off-set the strategic importance of the Hill.

[Thranduil]

I think shrinking the hill and adding the tower in the center were very good choices.  I think this should balance out fairly well.


In the "Submit New Map Ideas" thread, Helrekkr suggested this:

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Just something quick i found with google image search, but i guess it's fairly close to what i was going for, with a focus on keeping the fight on the edges (on the battlements/towers mostly, possibly with the occasional crumbling wall allowing for a gap where the unaware could fall ) instead of inside to keep things interesting (and dangerous).

So, I'm giving it a shot.  This is Sky Castle version .100!

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As per his request, I'll be throwing in a few nasty falls, so watch your step!

Oh, and right now, the size of my file is a cool heavy 12kB. 

[zagibu]

Looks cool so far. I remember your crashing winery from back when I was a rider...I liked it . It never crashed on my computer, and I also didn't notice any FPS problems.

Also, about M&B and indoor scenes: I don't think M&B does any vis culling AT ALL. That's why, when you first spawn inside a castle, and sweep your view around, it stutters a moment, because it is loading all the models and textures of enemies behind the walls. I could be wrong, but I'm certain that it doesn't have any specialized indoor vis algorithm like BSP or portals.

[Kong Ming]

I'm pretty sure of this as well, since there is nothing in the map editor to help you manage what the engine will try to render.

Love the prelims on the castle in the sky :-)

EDIT:  I tried implementing extremely high/steep elevations on another map with deadly ravines that we were discussing on the old forum.  I found that there were some serious glitches in the game engine when I tried to walk or jump off these extremely high cliffs.  Something to do with how the game engine tracks a characters movement over the terrain map.  Just a heads up that you should be prepared to make many of the deadly ledges out of scene props instead of a very sharp drop off of the terrain field.  I experimented slightly with putting little barriers as lips on the cliffs, but nothing conclusive about whether this really helps.