Maps in Development

[Vanguard Warden]

I've been working on a siege map for a bit and all I have left to do is balance and terrain/decoration work. An overview of it is as follows:

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There's a lot of variation in height which I've been missing in previous attempts, and I've managed to avoid too many right angles. Attackers will spawn in the valley at A, the capture flag is at B, C and D are the two gatehouses and there's a side-door directly to the capture area at E.

I'm open to suggestions on where would be best to put a siege tower/ladders.

[Warcat]

If that side door is going to lead to the flag so directly, I'd get rid of the stairs outside. I'd suggest a ladder left of C and a tower to its right. Maybe a couple ladders on the back side as well.

[Ronan]

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Im trying to upload screen shots on my "beta" map still in development. How do upload screen shots/Files?visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Vanguard Warden]

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Im trying to upload screen shots on my "beta" map still in development. How do upload screen shots/Files?

Find an external image hosting site. I'm using Uploadit at the moment. For the actual map files, use mbrepository.

I finally managed to make something that didn't look so bland in another siege map I was working on trying to utilize the full_keep prop to the fullest, and terrain gen gave me an awesome plateau with a river on one side and cliffs on the other:

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Details can be a bit hard to make out in the shot I took, so I'll try to cover most of it. There are three entrances to the inner ward where the capture flag is; a sally port door on top of some narrow stairs west of the keep, a gate-less gatehouse to the northeast of the keep and a siege ladder into the hole in the southeast wall on the second floor of the keep. The outer ward has a sally port door to the southeast on top of the plateau with stairs leading up the cliff-side, a siege ramp on the wall to the south, a ladder west of the southern gatehouse and another ladder on the wall short wall segment to the west. The inner walls can only be reached through the keep and are separated from the external walls, which have exposed stairs to the east and west ends, and internal stairs in the external gatehouse and eastern tower. The edges of the picture are pretty much the edges of the map, so the entire area north of the castle is out of bounds.

The attackers spawn all over the southern field, but I'm not exactly sure where to spawn most of the defenders. There aren't too many out-of-the-way places to put spawn points and I'd rather not have them spawn all over the walls. I'm also considering a door in the east or west entrances of the external gatehouse. The proximity of the ladder/siege ramp makes it seem like the gatehouse would fall way too quickly without it. I'd like to hear someone's thoughts about that.

EDIT: Oh, and I found out that siege engines don't like bridges. It got halfway across, and then turned upside down.

[Ronan]

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K. Lets see Phoenix Castle?
Doesnt really do it justice, but Im using "steam" for the screenshots and then putting on the uploadit web page and this is what I get. I dont seem to have a folder in M&B thats for screenshots... so weird

[Kong Ming]

The folder should be in your "My Documents" folder actually.  Weird.

[Professor]

I decided to leave my floating castle idea by the wayside and work on something a bit more interesting. This map is intended to be a fast-paced siege map. The premise is an airship-to-airship boarding party, with the airships boarding at the bow (front), and the defender's flag located in the stern (rear) castle. For those who are worried defenders will be easily overwhelmed, I'm working on cluttering up the main deck somewhat with barricades and such. There are a few areas where defenders will be able to choke off the attackers - namely, at the boarding points (harder to do), and at the ramp leading up to the stern castle.

The following image is taken from the view of one of the pirate ships. The boarding ramp is visible, as well as some of the details. In the distance is the back ramp which leads up to the defender's flag. From the point where this picture was taken, it takes about 36 seconds to run, unimpeded, all the way up to the flag area. This time will become longer as more debris is added to the deck, to ensure that the attackers aren't able to easily overwhelm the defending team by virtue of faster spawns.

What do you guys think? I think I could have this map ready to test by tomorrow afternoon, and I'm eager to see if the NA_Siege server wants to give it a whirl.

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[Kong Ming]

There is one trick with floating maps that we haven't yet been able to solve.  Falling.  Obviously the map can be high enough that any footsoldiers that fall will die, but anyone on a horse will survive the fall when their horse takes the impact.  The only semi-solution found is to block the spawn area in with ai_barrier's so that horses cannot leave spawn.  It works, but obviously cav players hate this solution (and rightly so).  Anyone who figures out how to kill a horseman who falls off a high cliff will earn an extra special reward of some type from me.  Note, we've already tried putting an ai_barrier parallel to the ground and still quite high, to kill the horse and then let the player fall farther to their death.  Unfortunately, the horse just stops at the ai_barrier without taking any damage and the player is stuck until they dismount to their inevitable death.

[zagibu]

I guess the only half-solution to this problem is to make a plateau. The rider falls, horse dies from the impact on the plateau, then he can jump off the plateau to commit suicide. Something like this:

Code: [Select]

Floating map

     |1
     |
     V
|2 ____ Plateau
|  |  |
V  |  |
__________ Ground


[zagibu]

I finally managed to make something that didn't look so bland in another siege map I was working on trying to utilize the full_keep prop to the fullest, and terrain gen gave me an awesome plateau with a river on one side and cliffs on the other:

Details can be a bit hard to make out in the shot I took, so I'll try to cover most of it. There are three entrances to the inner ward where the capture flag is; a sally port door on top of some narrow stairs west of the keep, a gate-less gatehouse to the northeast of the keep and a siege ladder into the hole in the southeast wall on the second floor of the keep. The outer ward has a sally port door to the southeast on top of the plateau with stairs leading up the cliff-side, a siege ramp on the wall to the south, a ladder west of the southern gatehouse and another ladder on the wall short wall segment to the west. The inner walls can only be reached through the keep and are separated from the external walls, which have exposed stairs to the east and west ends, and internal stairs in the external gatehouse and eastern tower. The edges of the picture are pretty much the edges of the map, so the entire area north of the castle is out of bounds.

The attackers spawn all over the southern field, but I'm not exactly sure where to spawn most of the defenders. There aren't too many out-of-the-way places to put spawn points and I'd rather not have them spawn all over the walls. I'm also considering a door in the east or west entrances of the external gatehouse. The proximity of the ladder/siege ramp makes it seem like the gatehouse would fall way too quickly without it. I'd like to hear someone's thoughts about that.

EDIT: Oh, and I found out that siege engines don't like bridges. It got halfway across, and then turned upside down.

Looks very cool. I've also wanted to do a siege map with a river and the turin castle props. Now I have to rethink my design.

Don't worry about defender spawn too much, the engine will usually select a spawn point that is free from attackers. You must distribute defender spawn a bit, so that at initial spawn, they have a chance to defend the walls, but at later times, they can also get back to the flag quickly. Note that at initial spawn, ALL attackers will spawn at spawnpoint 32, just like in battle mode, so put that somewhere with enough space around it. Defenders seem to use all of their spawnpoints at initial spawn.

About the siege engine and the bridge...have you made sure the entry points for the belfry have their z axis all the same direction?

[CtrlAltDe1337]

There is one trick with floating maps that we haven't yet been able to solve.  Falling.  Obviously the map can be high enough that any footsoldiers that fall will die, but anyone on a horse will survive the fall when their horse takes the impact.  The only semi-solution found is to block the spawn area in with ai_barrier's so that horses cannot leave spawn.  It works, but obviously cav players hate this solution (and rightly so).  Anyone who figures out how to kill a horseman who falls off a high cliff will earn an extra special reward of some type from me.  Note, we've already tried putting an ai_barrier parallel to the ground and still quite high, to kill the horse and then let the player fall farther to their death.  Unfortunately, the horse just stops at the ai_barrier without taking any damage and the player is stuck until they dismount to their inevitable death.

We do have a solution: put AI barriers around every possible area you can fall.  The only problem is that takes a lot of time for most maps.

[Kong Ming]

Nasturtium ran into major problems with that beyond simply the time and effort involved.  Apparently lots of issues with random teleporting and such.

[Professor]

If someone wants to ride around on a horse in a siege map, I'd say that's their (stupid) call. Especially if the map is floating. On the main boat, it won't be a problem since the edges of the boat are such that it's impossible to even jump off on a horse. I might make plateaus underneath the attacker's spawns though. That's an excellent idea, zagibu.

[Ronan]

id say good sir, I thank you... Now Ill post actual screenshots later. I Bow to your wisdom Kong Ming!

[Leiknir]

If you fall deep enough, both rider and horse get damaged (Like from the gatehouse in turin castle)