Cavalry Are Still Overpowered

[Lordark]

GOD BLESS YE SIR! MAY THE LORD WATCH OVER YOU IN YOUR TIME OF WEAKNESS!

That doesn't stop them from killing my other teammates. And then it's just me against multiple cavalry, so I lose. Even if I fight two cavalry I usually lose, and I'm not a bad player. Cavalry boil this game down to luck, the luck being whether or not you have the most cavalry on your team.

The world revolves around cavalry right now. They are frustrating, and even you say they're frustrating. I'm sure you can also admit that it's silly they can jump on roofs, or kill people on steep hills mid-air. They need to be re-worked for more realism and balance.

[Tears of Destiny]

I think it is normal to fight two cavalry and lose...

I lose usually when fighting two anything all by my lonesome.

[Overdriven]

You're saying you don't want Cavalry nerfed just because you play them. From an infantry standpoint, it's true, they could still be toned-down. See for yourself some time.

I have a 1h shielder alt and a 2h alt which I have been playing extensively. Maybe you should think before making wild claims  I know exactly how to handle cav when I'm playing my inf characters, and they are not over powered at all.

This only works against cav that pressed the couched lance key and then walked away from the keyboard.  Just saying.

You do realise that a normal lance has pretty much the same range of movement as a couch now? Go and try cav yourself. I bet you don't even have a proper cav alt?

[Draulius]

I have a 1h shielder alt and a 2h alt. Maybe you should think before making wild claims  I know exactly how to handle cav when I'm playing my inf characters, and they are not over powered at all.

You do realise that a normal lance has pretty much the same range of movement as a couch now?

Maybe you'd do well in 1v1 duels with a Cavalry, but in large matches with random teammates I think not.

I think it is normal to fight two cavalry and lose...

I lose usually when fighting two anything all by my lonesome.

Simply my point that one man can't make much of a difference.

[Overdriven]

Maybe you'd do well in 1v1 duels with a Cavalry, but in large matches with random teammates I think not.

Well for a start you alone should not be able to handle 2 cav. Just like you shouldn't be able to handle 2 of any class unless you are good.

With random team mates? I see no issue with random team mates being there. If anything it is better because one of them is likely to be carrying some form of anti-cav weapon so it's pure win for infantry. Anything can out range a lance. A 2h lolstab, hell I've taken plenty down with a 1h long espada thrust and then killed them on the ground. It's more difficult to do, but still not very hard.

Cavalry are only a bitch if you are completely clueless and not paying attention. Otherwise if you are actually sensible and stick with a group of players and focus on the cav rather than the enemy infantry when the cav is around, then it's fine. If you get stabbed in the back by a lance, o well, it was your time. But fact is if you were smart enough to stick with a team with sharp pointy things then you will likely not get stabbed in the back because that team will stick sharp pointy things in a horse.

[Seawied]

You do realise that a normal lance has pretty much the same range of movement as a couch now? Go and try cav yourself. I bet you don't even have a proper cav alt?

Lance thrust on horseback + major reach.
Couch animation -~30 reach.

[Overdriven]

Lance thrust on horseback + major reach.
Couch animation -~30 reach.

Except a lolstab can outrange a lance thrust. We've tested it in GK. In a head on with both players trying to stab each other the lolstab out ranges every time. Make much sense? No. My point was, the lance degree nerf means it's difficult in a head on with any aware player. Cavalry are more than ever a ninja class, stabbing unaware inf in the back (seeing as cav vs cav is a lot more viable as well).

However, I personally think cav is in a relatively good place. It's certainly not over powered by any standards 

[Seawied]

Splitting hairs here, but what Gorath is saying is that the extra length on the last second release makes it more difficult to strafe a poke than it is a couched lance, which I find to be true.

As for the lolstab, I haven't done tests myself, but I haven't seen any evidence which contradicts your results. What was the shortest 2h you tried this with?

[Overdriven]

Splitting hairs here, but what Gorath is saying is that the extra length on the last second release makes it more difficult to strafe a poke than it is a couched lance, which I find to be true.

As for the lolstab, I haven't done tests myself, but I haven't seen any evidence which contradicts your results. What was the shortest 2h you tried this with?

Pretty much around the 120 length. The shortest being 117.

[Draulius]

Well for a start you alone should not be able to handle 2 cav. Just like you shouldn't be able to handle 2 of any class unless you are good.

With random team mates? I see no issue with random team mates being there. If anything it is better because one of them is likely to be carrying some form of anti-cav weapon so it's pure win for infantry. Anything can out range a lance. A 2h lolstab, hell I've taken plenty down with a 1h long espada thrust and then killed them on the ground. It's more difficult to do, but still not very hard.

Cavalry are only a bitch if you are completely clueless and not paying attention. Otherwise if you are actually sensible and stick with a group of players and focus on the cav rather than the enemy infantry when the cav is around, then it's fine. If you get stabbed in the back by a lance, o well, it was your time. But fact is if you were smart enough to stick with a team with sharp pointy things then you will likely not get stabbed in the back because that team will stick sharp pointy things in a horse.

Like I said, not a lot of those teammates will have the same idea.  The Cavalry usually outweigh the ones prepared for Cavalry because it's a random match. And some people are just not skilled enough to take them down. Very unfriendly to newer players. Odds point to Cavalry coming out on top, because even as the Admin even said; they always have an advantage. In skill and in power. I don't mean to sound stubborn, but if you say anything less then I think you're just being biased since you like Cav.

[Overdriven]

Like I said, not a lot of those teammates will have the same idea.  The Cavalry usually outweigh the ones prepared for Cavalry because it's a random match. And some people are just not skilled enough to take them down otherwise. Odds always point to Cavalry coming out on top, because even as that Admin even said; they always have an advantage.

In terms of cav vs infantry it's usually 1-3 in numbers. On the majority of servers infantry far out weighs cav, unless you get all of GK on one server  You trying to tell me that there aren't enough archers, crossbowmen, long spears, pikemen, friendly cav, 2h, hell, 1h and polearms in a team to take down some cavalry? Because those are all the classes that can do it. I assure you, from a cavalry perspective there are more than enough, especially when horses die so damn easily atm. If cavalry survives, it's because they are good, not because your team mates are crap.

[Draulius]

In terms of cav vs infantry it's usually 3-1 in terms of numbers. On the majority of servers infantry far out weighs cav, unless you get all of GK on one server  You trying to tell me that there aren't enough archers, crossbowmen, long spears, pikemen, friendly cav, 2h, hell, 1h and polearms in a team to take down some cavalry? I assure you, from a cavalry perspective there are more than enough, especially when horses die so damn easily atm.

Remember, that hefty amount of Cavalry is supported by infantry too. You seem to talk as if they're alone in the fight.  If you go into a fight with their infantry, then the Cavalry will come in to knock you down or break your shield, this is why people stood back and hid on a house in my game. It makes sense why people are afraid, and it definitely shows that something is wrong with Cavalry.

We can continue to disagree, but in the end it is up to the Admins.

[NuberT]

Cavalry is so fucked up, I did a respec and lost 35mio xp. I sold my +3 arabian warhorse for a +2 long maul, now I can stamp almost everything

[Overdriven]

Remember, that hefty amount of Cavalry is supported by infantry too. You seem to talk as if they're alone in the fight.  If you go into a fight with their infantry, then the Cavalry will come in to knock you down or break your shield, this is why people stood back and hid on a house in my game. It makes sense why people are afraid, and it definitely shows that something is wrong with Cavalry.

We can continue to disagree, but in the end it is up to the Admins.

You mean the devs. And they already nerfed cav a lot. Hefty amount of cavalry? On a 40 person team you could probably expect 5 cavalry on that team. You telling me you're so shit scared of them that you hid on a roof? I admit there are exceptions when you do get a cavalry heavy side, but in all honesty I often see cavalry working together far more than infantry does. For example, I'm an HA as a main, if 2 HA are attacking the same person you instinctively pick opposite sides to shoot from and wheel around. Making it impossible to avoid. Why can't infantry do a similar thing? Stick with a player you know has an anti cav weapon. That way, even if they die, you can just pick it up.

The problem is that people constantly complained about ninja cav pre patch. So they nerfed the lance angle (one of the many suggestions). And guess what, it made cav even more ninja because you have to be to be effective. Getting lanced in the back is an infantry way of life. But honestly this only happens if you are pretty clueless. When I play my shielder or 2h I know to track the enemy cavalry movements. I won't engage infantry but will watch the enemy cav to see where they are going, I will only engage infantry when I can see there are no cav. Then after each inf fight I'll check for cav quickly.

It's really not that hard to have a bit of awareness. The same way you have to check to see if any enemy infantry has beaten there way behind you. You also have to watch for cav.

PS: Go play a cavalry alt for a while. It will help you understand their movements ect and why they play the way they do, meaning you'll be able to better handle then as infantry. It's why I play infantry, because the more you know about the classes you're going to kill, the easier and more effective you can be at killing them.

[Draulius]

You mean the devs. And they already nerfed cav a lot. Hefty amount of cavalry? On a 40 person team you could probably expect 5 cavalry on that team. You telling me you're so shit scared of them that you hid on a roof? I admit there are exceptions when you do get a cavalry heavy side, but in all honesty I often see cavalry working together far more than infantry does. For example, I'm an HA as a main, if 2 HA are attacking the same person you instinctively pick opposite sides to shoot from and wheel around. Making it impossible to avoid. Why can't infantry do a similar thing? Stick with a player you know has an anti cav weapon. That way, even if they die, you can just pick it up.

The problem is that people constantly complained about ninja cav pre patch. So they nerfed the lance angle (one of the many suggestions). And guess what, it made cav even more ninja because you have to be to be effective. Getting lanced in the back is an infantry way of life. But honestly this only happens if you are pretty clueless. When I play my shielder or 2h I know to track the enemy cavalry movements. I won't engage infantry but will watch the enemy cav to see where they are going, I will only engage infantry when I can see there are no cav. Then after each inf fight I'll check for cav quickly.

It's really not that hard to have a bit of awareness. The same way you have to check to see if any enemy infantry has beaten there way behind you. You also have to watch for cav.

PS: Go play a cavalry alt for a while. It will help you understand their movements ect and why they play the way they do, meaning you'll be able to better handle then as infantry. It's why I play infantry, because the more you know about the classes you're going to kill, the easier and more effective you can be at killing them.

There were multiple small Cavalry nerfs, which probably makes you think they were heavily nerfed, but that is hardly the case. If they're nerfed again I bet you will learn to adapt, and in my opinion they do need another fix. I didn't hide on a roof myself by the way, actually my entire team stayed back and did. We had only one Cavalry on our team too. Auto-balance is a big part of problems like these, because it hardly does it's job well. There's only so much you can do on large, open maps too.

For starters, Cavalry shouldn't be able to use their weapon while mid-air.