LLJK Official Proclomation of Peace

[Snatch]

Personally, I don't think a rollback is a bad idea, but if there's one now, then it means we need to start seeing a lot more rollbacks in the future whenever shit goes badly for somebody in an unfair way, even if it doesn't really break Strategus at large.

You are being extremely short sighted about this incident. If the devs allow hacking players accounts, which in turn will be used to remove troops, change rosters, kick all players from the clan, or hand over gold/gear/troops to anyone nearby, then other clans will employ this new tactic to further their clan's prerogative in strategus. It is game breaking, and is not at all similar to the incidents in old Strat when the devs didn't have the foresight to implement a hardcoded ranking system.

If account hacking becomes a viable tactic, be prepared to have many more of these incidents and droves of players quitting the game. Since the game ceases to be fun at that point, and moves in the direction of bundle of sticksry.

[okiN]

You're not wrong, as such, but I still think that if there's a rollback or reimbursement here, then it needs to inform future responses to similar situations, even if they don't have quite as worrying implications. No abuses or cheating should be tolerated, regardless of whether there are security breaches involved. The same argument applies: whenever you allow some kind of cheating, bug abuse or what have you in order to gain an advantage in Strat, then you're encouraging continued abuse, and over time it leads to a constant escalation of ugliness in the game. Just like here, it's not enough to just forbid it or prevent it from being done in the future, because whoever does it first still gets the edge. The stance of no refunds on losses due to bugs, no matter how serious, might also be reconsidered.

If chadz is worried about rollbacks messing up the game, just do a wipe instead. Give us the bigger, two-continent, time-zoned map while you're at it.

[SPQR]

The precedent for reimbursing hacking victims was already set when the people who had their crpg characters hacked had their items returned and characters un-deleted. This is no different, only on a much larger scale because it not only effects Gaga, but everyone else in the clan too (in this case, over 100 people).

In the case of the old "unhiring everyone on the list" trick, yes it was clearly abuse of a faulty game mechanic but before it started cropping up there was no rule against it anywhere. Hell, I doubt most people even imagined it was possible. Hacking into peoples accounts, on the other hand has been, and always will be, absolutely against the rules. Taking immediate action in the form of a rollback or reimbursement will make future hacking attempts significantly less attractive as they will know that any temporary mayhem they may cause will be undone and they will be banned. Doing nothing, on the other hand will practically ensure that this becomes a repeating occurrence.

[Tears of Destiny]

You can't be serious that hacking should be an expected problem?

This is a game on the internet... are you sure you want to stand by saying that hacking is not to be expected? Even a small mod like c-RPG has rampant hacking, not just the larger ones like EVE and Counter Strike...

[Gumdrawp]

This is a game on the internet... are you sure you want to stand by saying that hacking is not to be expected? Even a small mod like c-RPG has rampant hacking, not just the larger ones like EVE and Counter Strike...

The problem is if you allow this to be commonplace just wait until the russians and lljk go to war, so many people will be hacked you might as well wipe the entirety crpg.

Something should be done to compensate LLJK whether it be a rollback of just the ayn aussaudi fief and gaga's army or a full strat rollback. At the very least gaga should get his troops back and LLJK should get some sort of compensation for ayn aussaudi getting fucked due to the roster wipe.

Regardless of that just becuase somethings on the internet doesnt mean you should expect to be hacked. Sure its always possible but i doubt anyone ever expects to be hacked in any game. Its kind of a moronic argument to make.

[Mtemtko]

The problem is if you allow this to be commonplace just wait until the russians and lljk go to war, so many people will be hacked you might as well wipe the entirety crpg.

Something should be done to compensate LLJK whether it be a rollback of just the ayn aussaudi fief and gaga's army or a full strat rollback. At the very least gaga should get his troops back and LLJK should get some sort of compensation for ayn aussaudi getting fucked due to the roster wipe.

Regardless of that just becuase somethings on the internet doesnt mean you should expect to be hacked. Sure its always possible but i doubt anyone ever expects to be hacked in any game. Its kind of a moronic argument to make.

I think I have never seen any kind of refund in strategus because its BETA, I know hacking has nothing to do with bugs etc, but even when in old strat when templars wiped their roster before the battle for ????(afaik some guy hacked in an account and wiped it a minute before the battle) reason there was no refund.
Good luck....

[Damug]

I think I have never seen any kind of refund in strategus because its BETA, I know hacking has nothing to do with bugs etc, but even when in old strat when templars wiped their roster before the battle for ????(afaik some guy hacked in an account and wiped it a minute before the battle) reason there was no refund.
Good luck....

Did you even read the thread?

Actually, if memory serves, back when the Templars and their allies got screwed over there were no restrictions concerning who had access to hiring lists -- IIRC access by rank was added as a response to those incidents. All the "espionage" involved there was some undercover 22nd, DRZ or whoever getting accepted into the faction, and since the game was a lot more innocent then and it wasn't clear yet just what some people would do to be more "competitive", I really wouldn't call that much of an achievement.

[Mtemtko]

Did you even read the thread?

No I didnt, I just stumbled upon this poor abused thread and wanted to point out theres no fucking way you are getting a refund.

[Raxmus]

Same shit, different strat.

This shit happened before, it will happen again.

There weren't roll backs before why should there be now?

We had slaves hundreds of years ago, why should we not have them now?

I'm going to say that analogy until people stop thinking that the wrong past is justification for a wrong future.

[LLJK_Korea1]

No, my clan wants a rollback along with couple of devs

This is why devs should stay neutral and be forbidden to have player characters

[Boss_Awesome]

Whoever hacked the army is an idiot who has gotten way to competetive.  Cheating is the domain of people who just HAVE to win, no matter what.  Pathetic really.  I want to see them get a refund with maybe a bonus because A) it's only fair, B) it would really piss off whoever did this, and C) it would discourage this type of behavior in the future.  The best way to reward hackers is to let them get what they want, in this case to destroy an attacking army.    At least one of LLJK's enemies is a real piece of shit and I hope I get a chance to fight whoever that is. 

[Ujin]

Can't say i enjoy seeing Gaga hacked (especially if it also included someone going through your personal stuff),but the "it's only fair" arguments lobbying a rollback are kinda silly =). I'm hoping for a partial/full wipe soon.... and two continents (servers).

P.S. Out of curiosity, weren't LLJK themselves involved in hacking other players accounts in cRPG recently ? If yes - well,  what goes around  ,comes around.

[Elerion]

No abuses or cheating should be tolerated, regardless of whether there are security breaches involved. The same argument applies: whenever you allow some kind of cheating, bug abuse or what have you in order to gain an advantage in Strat, then you're encouraging continued abuse, and over time it leads to a constant escalation of ugliness in the game.

The problem with rules against "exploiting" is that unless there's a specific rule written about a specific exploit, the line is extremely muddy. Check out the Merc vs BRD debate regarding invisible walls for example.

When your spawn is behind an invisible wall:
Are you breaking the rules if you stand behind it and shoot enemies?
Are you breaking the rules if you don't attack from behind it, but move behind it to reach a better exit position?
Are you breaking the rules if you don't attack from behind it or move behind it, but wait behind it until the enemy can be repelled before you move out?
Are you breaking the rules if you position your army up against the invisible wall, thus cutting off the enemy's opportunity to flank you from behind?
Are you breaking the rules if you use a tactic that doesn't directly utilize the invisible wall, but that would be infeasible if the wall was not there? (e.g. not caring about protecting your spawn)

This is a classic muddy line, and unless specific rules are made describing exactly what you are allowed to do, rules against "exploiting in general" won't solve the question. There are hundreds of game mechanics and bugs like this that can be abused to some extent, and you probably can't write rules for all of them.

Hacking, on the other hand, can be easily forbidden with a single rule: Accessing another player's account without authorization is not allowed. The line here is pretty clear cut.

(click to show/hide)

Cheating also, can be relatively easily forbidden: Using a third party program or game file modification to gain access to in-game information you would otherwise not have access to is not allowed. Using a third party program or game file modification to automate actions is not allowed.

[Babelfish]

but the "it's only fair" arguments lobbying a rollback are kinda silly =)

Not as silly as strategus will be if hacking is encouraged.

[Tydeus]

P.S. Out of curiosity, weren't LLJK themselves involved in hacking other players accounts in cRPG recently ? If yes - well,  what goes around  ,comes around.

There was a time when I respected Shogunate, then I came across the post of one of their members and it made me hate their entire clan. If you're going to judge a clan by one member's actions, maybe everyone else should do the same?

I guess it's a good thing not everyone thinks like you.