Meet the Archer and Crossbowwoman!

[Mtemtko]

Not one of the dev is mainly ranged spec, only alts, thats what annoys me the most.

[Okkam]

It's 28k-32k vs 34k, *points at last line of text*, not much of a difference, but the crossbowman has to engage into melee more often so he needs the armor more than the archer does.

Yes, at first you deprive archers weapon speed. (fastest bow now shoot as slowest bow before january patch)
Then you rob archers of pierce damage.
At third you deprive archers of possibility to take side weapons (just imagine - those pesky archer can kill someone with his big, sharp thingy).
Then you whine about running archers (without melee weapon)
Then you nerf weight of archers quivers - yea, they run too fast, we cant outran them with our transitional and 5 athletics.
Then you whine about archers equipment cost
Then you increasing cost of archers equipment, because xbowers wanna receive same money as archers\or even more money (but xbowers still have accuracy, armor, athletics, wpf in melee, melee side weapon, main oneshoting weapon with best projectile speed in game, points in ironflesh) Weapon usable from level 13. By peasant with 15 strength.

Please, stop use twisted logic, Fasader.

[Gnjus]

Not one of the dev is mainly ranged spec, only alts, thats what annoys me the most.

Wrong.

(click to show/hide)

Yes, at first you deprive archers weapon speed. (fastest bow now shoot as slowest bow before january patch)
Then you rob archers of pierce damage.
At third you deprive archers of possibility to take side weapons (just imagine - those pesky archer can kill someone with his big, sharp thingy).
Then you whine about running archers (without melee weapon)
Then you nerf weight of archers quivers - yea, they run too fast, we cant outran them with our transitional and 5 athletics.
Then you whine about archers equipment cost
Then you increasing cost of archers equipment, because xbowers wanna receive same money as archers\or even more money (but xbowers still have accuracy, armor, athletics, wpf in melee, melee side weapon, main oneshoting weapon with best projectile speed in game, points in ironflesh) Weapon usable from level 13. By peasant with 15 strength.

Please, stop use twisted logic, Fasader.

I have a solution for all ranged: make crossbow crosshairs same width as they were back in 2010. and bow crosshairs even more wide, while keep the realistic damage, all pierce for bows, etc, everything as it should be, the so called balance by realism. If archers want to be useful they will need to work as a team, not like ramboid sharpshooters. Most of these D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. roof & hill campers won't be able to hit shit (as it should be, except if they fire into big groups of enemies) and thus they will quit playing ranged classes and the game will balance itself out in no-time.

[Okkam]

I have a solution for all ranged: make crossbow crosshairs same width as they were back in 2010. and bow crosshairs even more wide

I like your FAIR suggestion.
Something is wrong with crossbow crosshairs? Someone nerf them? As I remember they was more than accurate in january, even with only 120 wpf in xbows. And I know how they accurate today with 170+ wpf.

And you can make dot-point accurate xbowman, with 15 str and 190 wpf at 30 level.
But you prefer to be dedicated armored bumpslasher. Why? Xbowery is not challenging today?

yes... big group of enemies... this is cRPG mate, not a Total War, where you saw big groups of enemies in cRPG?

[Mannhammer]

Wrong.

I have a solution for all ranged: make crossbow crosshairs same width as they were back in 2010. and bow crosshairs even more wide, while keep the realistic damage, all pierce for bows, etc, everything as it should be, the so called balance by realism. If archers want to be useful they will need to work as a team, not like ramboid sharpshooters. Most of these D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. roof & hill campers won't be able to hit shit (as it should be, except if they fire into big groups of enemies) and thus they will quit playing ranged classes and the game will balance itself out in no-time.

1st point. How many devs are ranged? Are any devs archers? Or are they all xbowers (which would explain a lot) My second point is that ranged is not represented in the dev team in the correct ratio to the gaming community. So we always get nerfed when two handers ect.. get sad we shot them.   
 
2nd point: First lets dispell this myth: "before the patch archers were sharp shooters"  Pre-patch we were anything but sharpshooters. I really don't think that people who don't play as archers get this. Pre-patch you were having a good day as an archer if 1 in every 4 of your arrows hit its mark. We always had crap accuracy which is why no pure archer build was ever one of the top 20 players (based off k/d ratio) of cRPG.

The Fallen archers do fight as archer squads, you should know that from the clan battles. We wounded or killed our prey with coordinated volleys at designated targets even then most of us would miss.  Now...  anyone can lazily move out of the way of our snail slow projectiles and even a mass of arrows is easily dodged. All the archery nerfs were bad but the biggest slap in the dick with this patch is that we do next to no damage now. So archery is a complete joke now that has no accuracy or damage output.

Being an archer in a coordinated squad is the most fun I've ever had in cRPG until the patch.. now it hurts to play.

[Keshian]

Put things into perspective:

Reducing draw speed is like reducing weapon speed on a sword
Reducing damage on a bow is like reducing damage on a sword

These are changes that people can adapt to and be used to balance.

Reducing shoot speed by a 1/3rd is like reducing a sword's weapon length by a 1/3rd.

Those are the kind of major changes that fundamentally alter and destroya  class as it affects the very nature of the fight itself.  Try dueling a 153 length long hafted blade with now a 74 length longsword.  Its doable but if anyone has any sense they will leave a class that has been disrespected by the developers to the point of becoming almost completely ineffective.  But with archery -decreased shoot speed also cause greater reduced damage over distance so its like nerfing damage on the sword as well.  So you can try and fight with a 59 length katana doing 32 cut damage on the swing OR you can just accept the fact that developers hate your class and switch to something else despite the fact that the original game had this class as a fundamental and enjoyable aspect of it.

[Mtemtko]

Wrong.


I have a solution for all ranged: make crossbow crosshairs same width as they were back in 2010. and bow crosshairs even more wide, while keep the realistic damage, all pierce for bows, etc, everything as it should be, the so called balance by realism. If archers want to be useful they will need to work as a team, not like ramboid sharpshooters. Most of these D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. roof & hill campers won't be able to hit shit (as it should be, except if they fire into big groups of enemies) and thus they will quit playing ranged classes and the game will balance itself out in no-time.

Well I will be more specific then.

Not one dev is mainly archer/horse archer, only alts Not including Shikk, doesnt play the game, in 1500hours of crpg in both EU and NA i saw her twice, once as HA.

... You want us to fire onto "big groups of enemies"? Fuck off or give us 200 player siege servers.

[Torost]

I have played an archer from the start of cRPG.
Today I find archery futile and obsolete. Due to nerf upon nerf upon nerf.

You have made the bow inaccurate,slow and lowdmg.
And to top it off, you have very few arrows, so you can only take shots you have a good chance of hitting. (meaning not giving longrange suppression fire, forcing melee to run with their shields up, dehorsing cav, fireing distractionshots at enemy xbowsnipers.)
The bow either has to be accurate/low dmg or inaccurate-heavy dmg. 
Slow/naccurate/low dmg/low supply of arrows makes it useless.

For ranged damage, the xbow is the superior choice. Low skill, hard accurate punch.

I cant even imagine how one should level up as dedicated archer, and get the masterwork items.
Insta30 is the only way, unless you want to waste your own and your teams time

If you want archery to be a part of cRPG you have to seperate the roles of xbow and bows.
Today xbows can do everything bows can .. just better,simpler and cheaper( in terms of skillpoints)

I would like archery to become more of a supportrole, so that a team of archers could shower incoming cav, densly packed melee with a rain of arrows. But this takes teamwork. cRPG plays more like a team deathmatch, where everyone just runs into battle trying to get the most kills.
All you meleeguys whining/wondering why cav is so "OP"? You made archery useless, now you must deal with cav at pointblank.

Would turning of the K:D ratio ingame induce more teamwork?

/rant

Torost

[Rumblood]

Xbow needed a nerf LAST patch. Doubly so this patch. Nerf the fuck out of them.

I'm fine with archery as it is. I always adapt enough to make the xbow loving Dev's cry and whine and invent new nerfs for us. 

[Thomek]

would be interesting to see a bow of the type torost suggest.

a fast firing, hard hitting bow, with crap accuracy and low missile speed. For lobbying volleys at the enemy positions.

[Adam_Bomb]

Xbow needed a nerf LAST patch. Doubly so this patch. Nerf the fuck out of them.

I'm fine with archery as it is. I always adapt enough to make the xbow loving Dev's cry and whine and invent new nerfs for us. 

Xbows got a nerf with this last patch, it takes forever and a day to reload now.  I wish ranged would stand together a bit more, and try to get archery buffed back, rather than turning on each other and just trying to get all ranged nerfed to the same level of crap...

+1 for giving arrows their old speed back

[Cyclopsided]

would be interesting to see a bow of the type torost suggest.

a fast firing, hard hitting bow, with crap accuracy and low missile speed. For lobbying volleys at the enemy positions.

I support that idea.

[Mannhammer]

Xbows got a nerf with this last patch, it takes forever and a day to reload now.  I wish ranged would stand together a bit more, and try to get archery buffed back, rather than turning on each other and just trying to get all ranged nerfed to the same level of crap...

+1 for giving arrows their old speed back

Good damn point. After the devs finish ruining archery it will only be a matter of time before they obliterate xbow too. This will ensure that only "skilled" melee players will be in the game, after all, only melee players have any skill.

[Rumblood]

would be interesting to see a bow of the type torost suggest.

a fast firing, hard hitting bow, with crap accuracy and low missile speed. For lobbying volleys at the enemy positions.

That's what we have now....well except for the fast firing, hard hitting part.....

[Bobthehero]

I have an archer that is going to have both 7 powerstrike and powerdraw, and prof in both 2 h and bow, right now its at level 20 somethings, works wonder.