Meet the Archer and Crossbowwoman!

[Fasader]

And the xbowmen can jump and shoot accurately unlike an archer.  The rus bow would not have been comparative at all for damage on anything mid-tier armor or above (like 1/10th health isntead of the 45-55% shown.) I see xbowmen dodge all the time and its really nice to be able to reload at leisure behind a crenellation/wall/tree/shielder/etc. and then pop out to shoot only when you choose to rather than having to go immediately as you draw back your bow wihtin a 1/4 second to shoot accurately.  Much harder to dodge a fast travelling xbow bolt now than a slow moving arrow.  May have been closer to balanced pre-last patch, but certainly not now.

The red part of the text is complete bullshit. Please don't post such stuff in here.


About projectile speed which seems to be a great whine subject:
so they had 13%-43% more (worst case, best case)
now they have 1% more (best case)
or 22% less (worst case)

(best case: MW longbow 10 PD vs regular arbalest)
(worst case: regular longbow 6 PD  vs MW arbalest)

[Tears of Destiny]

The red part of the text is complete bullshit. Please don't post such stuff in here.


About projectile speed which seems to be a great whine subject:
so they had 13%-43% more (worst case, best case)
now they have 1% more (best case)
or 22% less (worst case)

(best case: MW longbow 10 PD vs regular arbalest)
(worst case: regular longbow 6 PD  vs MW arbalest)

Out of curiosity, since 10PD is impossible with a level 30 build due to wpf restrictions, what would 9PD do to those numbers?

[Shablagoo]

Ranged wanting other ranged nerfed is part of the reason ALL ranged is underpowered.  Threads like these are the reason that both xbows and archery got nerfed this patch, they're the reason they'll both be nerfed next patch, and after they're made worthless (like throwing was) they'll finally be given some love by making them viable but still underpowered.  And then they'll be nerfed again.   Congratulations, you gave every 2h and polearm whiner another thread to point to when their 20 kill streak is ruined by some ranged sissy. 

The bow vs xbow comparison is bad because the bow shoots over twice as fast.  It's like someone with an assault rifle complaining that the sniper rifle does more damage and has better range, while completely ignoring every other advantage.  Threads like these almost make me want to stop arguing against archery nerfs. 

There are far more archers than there are xbowers, and they get far better scores.  Why?  Because they have far better dps.  You act like 18 vs 8 isn't a big deal.  Do you even realize how much time that is hiding behind a wall, not helping your team in the slightest, not getting kills at all?  Headshots are what gets ranged consistent kills.  18 shots is 18 possible headshots, 18 kills.  8 shots is 8 kills at best.  Two ranged with equal skill, one archer and one xbow, the archer will always come out ahead.  Archery should be buffed but it has nothing to do with crossbows.  And at least archers don't have to leave and find a new server every time it rains. 

Here's a comparison I'm far more interested in.  I made a skip the fun polearm character after the recent patch.  I've played it for 2 days.  It's been a real eye-opener.  For the first time ever I got first place in a match with over 40 players, and then did it a few more times.  40 kills, 9 deaths, 35:5, 28:6, putting in very little effort.  5 generations with an xbow and I like to think I'm pretty damn good with it, but I did better half-assing it as a polearm spammer with 2 days of casual experience.  Oh, and less than 1/4th of the repair cost of my main.  I'm scared to see how much better I'll do when I can actually afford some decent armor. 

[Tears of Destiny]

No...

The reason why range gets nerfed is because it is no fun for dedicated melee to get shot.

[Gevlos]

No, buff archers.

ie.
Increase the time a bow can aim accurately - alternatively, add pre notching.
Increase the effect of proficiency so that they can afford to spend points for 1h or 2h.
Decrease the effect of armour on accuracy.

Hell yes! But armor should also protect better against arrows and bolts. As much as I love shoot tin cans, I still find it kinda silly when they start dancing when I aim at them. One should feel more safe in full plate armor.

[Fasader]

Out of curiosity, since 10PD is impossible with a level 30 build due to wpf restrictions, what would 9PD do to those numbers?

bows had 13%-39% more (case 2,case 1)
crossbows have 1%-28% more (case 1, case 2)
or you can say bows have 1%-22% less (case 1, case 2)

(case 1: MW longbow 9 PD vs regular arbalest)
(case 2: regular longbow 6 PD  vs MW arbalest)

[Elerion]

The red part of the text is complete bullshit. Please don't post such stuff in here.

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And this is how much damage it did versus "heavy" armor!
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(click to show/hide)

For the record, I tried taking this shot 8 times. These were the rough damage numbers: 10%, 10%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 30%, 40%.

"Heavy armor" is still Coat of Plates and Mail Mittens, so not very heavy. Also, all shots have been taken naked, which boosts bow damage slightly by keeping wpf maxed.

[Mannhammer]

About projectile speed which seems to be a great whine subject:

Don't forget

1 - higher chance to repair arrows
2 - huge decrease of arrow speed
3 - decreased arrow damage (for all bows except longbow)
4 - nerf to loomed bows (loomed bow do not receive bonus to weapon speed) -2 to speed or all MW bows
5 - increased weight of quivers
6 - increased cost of equipment

Arrow speed is just the worst of the six dev fails

[Fasader]

Don't forget

1 - higher chance to repair arrows
arbalest + 2xsteel bolts = 23922 cost
longbow + 2xbodkins = 21116 cost
archer armor cost = ~3000
crossbowman armor cost = ~8000
assuming they get a similar melee weapon.
that's ~31k for the xbowman
and ~34k for the archer if you count arrows double because of extra breakage
not much of a difference, before it was 31k vs 24k
but most xbowmen take a better melee weapon instead of another stack of bolts so it goes from 33k+ to 37k depending on what they take.
2 - huge decrease of arrow speed that is missile speed.
3 - decreased arrow damage (for all bows except longbow) bolts have that too except for arbalest and heavy which got a small accuracy decrease instead
4 - nerf to loomed bows (loomed bow do not receive bonus to weapon speed) -2 to speed or all MW bows crossbows got -3 speed on MW
5 - increased weight of quivers <- arrows always had more weight than bolts because there's more of them and they're longer.
6 - increased cost of equipment every upkeep got increased, not just bows.

Arrow speed is just the worst of the six dev fails

[Elerion]

Uhm, the only reason the crossbowman gets that high on repair cost is because you add more armor that an archer can't dream of wearing. If you give them the same level of armor, the crossbowman is now at 26k, versus 34k for the archer.

If archers could wear 8000 worth of armor, they sure as hell would.

Are you seriously saying you added extra repair costs to archers because their lack of ability to wear armor made them cheap to use? The ability to wear heavier armor is a luxury, not a burden. Archers would LOVE to be able to wear more expensive/heavier armor, like crossbowmen can.

Should Katanas get double repair cost because ninjas run around with low armor?

[POOPHAMMER]

Uhm, the only reason the crossbowman gets that high on repair cost is because you add more armor that an archer can't dream of wearing. If you give them the same level of armor, the crossbowman is now at 26k.

If archers could wear 8000 worth of armor, they sure as hell would.

I normally crossbow naked when I crossbow

I am also an archer but I do not do that naked... Sometimes

[Cup1d]

Should Katanas get double repair cost because ninjas run around with low armor?

Why only katanas? All weapons must have double, even triple repair, except transitional armor, arbalest, kuyak, bec, danish, poleaxe, heavy lance, huscarl, spammitar and courser.

[Fasader]

Uhm, the only reason the crossbowman gets that high on repair cost is because you add more armor that an archer can't dream of wearing. If you give them the same level of armor, the crossbowman is now at 26k, versus 34k for the archer.

If archers could wear 8000 worth of armor, they sure as hell would.

Are you seriously saying you added extra repair costs to archers because their lack of ability to wear armor made them cheap to use? The ability to wear heavier armor is a luxury, not a burden. Archers would LOVE to be able to wear more expensive/heavier armor, like crossbowmen can.

Should Katanas get double repair cost because ninjas run around with low armor?

It's 28k-32k vs 34k, *points at last line of text*, not much of a difference, but the crossbowman has to engage into melee more often so he needs the armor more than the archer does.

Katanas already get double cost (not only repair) because of the weeaboo factor. ;)

[Bromagi]

-get rid of upkeep and give back the good ol' c-rpg... lets try that for a week or two and see if people still complain... I beg you!!   

[Mannhammer]

You guys really need to think these massive changes through more. Honestly, are there even any throwers, lancers or archers in the dev team? I doubt it and if there are they are a clear minority. Get out of your ecko chamber and listen to the people:

(click to show/hide)

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,10309.0.html
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,5439.0.html

Last night I shot at a guy with an MW rus bow, he had a light xbow and fired back. He reloaded and fired back at me before my reticule could close to return fire. 

We will be Fraping this shit later tonight to show you how stupid this mod has become.