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It is true that UK as much bigger economy should get much bigger deal and this whole ordeal should end in hugs and kisses and each side wishing other the best. However, that is not going to happen. UK does have a gameplan, I just forgot about it. Since they are leaving and that will put them in non favorable position their best bet is to make a big deal of it and maybe give others same idea. Because if they leave, then crash and burn, that will mean EU is right and they are dumb. It is better to work on splitting EU therefore making their decision right and reinstating them as some world leaders or whatever they believe they are. That's most likely they'll do now, and they are certainly skilled at it.

As things currently stands, UK have no capacity to become superpower of any sort. Those times are long gone. They can be strong independent country if they fix their internal issues. Despite what leave campaign said, EU helped UK a lot. Most of their poor areas were subsidized by EU. Those who voted against EU... now we'll see who will provide for them. London is fine and dandy, few other cities as well. Rest is no different from Slovakia for instance. They better prepare for Slovakian wages, those poor people from countryside because London won't finance them forever. Not now, when they essentially hurt London more than anyone else.

I've never said you are an idiot. You devour nationalism because it makes you feel good. That doesn't make you an idiot. You're well aware what you are doing and other options but you willfully choose that option. Like nicotine or drug addict. Idiot is the person who knows very little about anything but takes populist talk for granted. Idiots are ignorant, you are not. We have right wing politician in here who's university law professor, one of the best in whole country. Very smart dude, but he's a bit of irl troll who likes nationalism more than other options. He knows very well he's wrong but that doesn't stop him to pursue what he feels and likes. It's not matter of doing right, but doing what he wants.

Britain contributed more to the EU financially than it got back in return. Our net contribution has been stated at from just over £158,000,000 up to as much as £250,000,000 a week after rebate. That's 194,000,000 to 307,000,000 Euros a week at the current exchange rate net financial contribution to the EU. Now that we have voted to leave the EU it will now be the electorates responsibility to vote in a government that will work to fairly redistribute the savings that we make from ending EU membership and see that the money is put to good use across the kingdom and used to invest into our infrastructure, like the NHS.

Some people argue that Scotland will hold another referendum to leave the U.K because it would prefer to remain in the EU, what those who call for a second referendum fail to realise is that the wealth being redistrubted to Scotland by the EU had originally came from the whole of the U.K. It had been redistributed from the millions the whole of the U.K contributed in the first place. Without the U.K's combined contribution Scotland is likely to loose significant funding if it votes to leave the U.K and stay in the EU. Scotland is not wealthy enough to contribute 158-250 million per week to the EU and therefore will not receive the same level of EU funding it has so far enjoyed. Scotland would do better respecting the decision made by people from across the whole of the U.K and fight for it's share of the savings made from leaving the EU.

General Off Topic / Re: Leave or stay in the EU?

« on: June 25, 2016, 02:15:34 pm »

Quote from: HESKEYTIME on June 25, 2016, 01:34:56 pm

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Just leaving this here for anyone eligible and interested.

''We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.''

1.3 million of what, 16 million remain voters who've voted on a worthless petition? Accept the result. Respect democracy.

General Off Topic / Re: Leave or stay in the EU?

« on: June 25, 2016, 01:23:19 pm »

Quote from: Teeth on June 24, 2016, 11:18:41 pm

I am not sure if most voters realized that their vote on this is likely to make a way bigger difference for their daily lives than the general elections.

Oh I did, believe you me. That's precisely why I voted to leave.

General Off Topic / Re: Leave or stay in the EU?

« on: June 25, 2016, 01:16:52 pm »

U wot m8?

General Off Topic / Re: Leave or stay in the EU?

« on: June 24, 2016, 04:19:49 pm »

U wot m8?

General Off Topic / Re: Leave or stay in the EU?

« on: April 29, 2016, 06:31:14 pm »

Quote from: Rhekimos on April 29, 2016, 04:50:24 pm

Saying that his view is faulty because of his country of residence or birth is a logical fallacy though. Ad hominem.
Absolutely everyone has biases and that doesn't break an otherwise valid argument.
It only shows that you don't like it.

Well I haven't made the conclusion that his view is faulty based on his country of resistence but only that it's influenced.(If your post is in response to mine.) After re-reading some of Kafeins posts there are some elements of his argument I agree with. A single unified world government if successful could solve some of humanities problems. However at the current level of human development I doubt the world is ready for such an entity, both in the developed and developing world. An attempt to introduce such a system both covertly (which I suspect is already underway) or overtly is likely to cause more problems than solutions.

If the EU was a model of mass governance worth replicating it would be a good start, in its current and likely future state it's not. It's a system under strain from its own members interests and the interests of its global partners, mainly the U.S and under strain from its own failed policies and failue to turn them around.

General Off Topic / Re: Leave or stay in the EU?

« on: April 29, 2016, 03:25:41 pm »

Quote from: Paul on April 29, 2016, 05:52:15 am

wat? I'm suggesting the big O's "you are from X, no wonder you suck" argument is funny. There are good pro and contra EU arguments but my remark has nothing to do with that. Personally I'm for smaller solutions with fitting mindsets and economic strength.

Like a scandinavian union(Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland):
SCandinavian Union Members

Spain, Portugal, Tunesia, etc.:
Iberian and North African Nations Enterprise

Greece, Balkan States(yeah, right):
Balkan Union of Mediterranean States

and some middle European version with all the decent countries like Germany, Austria, Benelux, Poland, maybe France.

Ah ok, I guess I jumped the gun a little and misread/misunderstood what was being discussed.

It seemed as though you were sarcastically implying that Oberyn was judging whether Kafein was a decent person or not based on his country of residence. This percieved implication appeared to be made in response to what, at least from my perception appeared to Oberyn's attempt to discuss what influence living in a nation like Belgium would have on someone's view of the European Union and subsequently their view on national sovereignty in general. A point that seemed to suggest that resididing within a nation state with an arguably weaker coherent national identity a nation state that also happens to be the apple of the EU's eye may have an imbalanced/biased influence on someones political view of the European Union, a view which would lead that person coming to differing conclusions about the EU and global geopolitics.

For example, the Belgians may get on relatively well, a mix of different languages and communities coexisting in a developed European society. While back in Africa, the Middle-East and much of the rest of the world we still have tribes and nation states in a perpetual state of conflict. Which puts to question the possibility and practicality of a unified world government. Under such circumstances proponents of a world government couldn't their own way without resorting to fascism in some form and without resorting to killing or contributing to the killing of millions of people.

General Off Topic / Re: Leave or stay in the EU?

« on: April 28, 2016, 11:48:31 pm »

Quote from: Thomek on April 28, 2016, 09:24:09 pm

So the whole point with the EU was to stop the endless bickering and power politics between European nations, and actually create a framework for free trade. Look at how Russia deals with with trade/diplomacy to get an idea how it was. Basically and endless and absurd tit for tat. Perhaps that is more fair in the end, but it's also a monster destroying predictability and general smoothness of trade. The result is often non-trade, and much much worse than being in a union where the rules are established.

About removing people further from power, corruption etc, this can be true. (Although I haven't heard much about Brussels being so corrupt..) The problem with EU is rather powerlessness and sluggishness when it comes to handling issues that require immediate attention like the refugee crisis. In stead of either voting for closing down Schengen borders, or opening them up, we have total paralysis, forcing individual nation states to act unilaterally and chaotically. Except the fact that taking in millions of refugees and others would only cause an even larger influx of people, Europe "could" have taken in lots of refugees with no problem, IF they were spread out evenly among the nations. At least in theory. (Idea is of course flawed because of future consequences. ) - in Norway we call it "peeing your pants to keep warm."
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About Britain leaving the EU. I think it's retarded. It's a result of ignorant Brits thinking they are "special and superior" (like Americans, but they have some reason at least.) Except that it's a very long time since they were special and superior. Germany is a far better run country than that island.

It wasn't the EU who fucked Britain over. It was themselves and their idiotic tinkering, class system, practical backwardness, and general power being far, far removed from realities. After spending time in Belfast I'm honestly a little shocked how terribly run everything is. Perhaps Belfast is not a good metric for judging Britain, but it says something when our Ukrainian coders thinks its not so different from back home!

You are right to an extent. We, (as in the working poor and unemployed) have been fucked over by the class system and the political establishment, things could have been and could be run much better..

As it stands it's arguably those in the middle and upper middle and upper classes, who currently enjoy most of the benefits from Britains relationship the EU and that's why many of those within those demographics are fighting to remain in the EU, because it benefits them. There's no wonder why so much of our media is so pro-EU and anti brexit nor why both main political parties, both the government and the opposition support remaining within the EU, because they belong to the aforementioned demographics.

The working poor and unemployed get fucked over by mass immigration for multiple reasons, we don't have the social mobility or financial wealth to be able to start up a business when we want, pick and choose EU companies to trade with. In many cases the majority of the working poor don't have a choice due to financial constraints to pick where they can live in the country, or pick what schools, colleges and universities their children go to, or pay to pick what dentist or doctor they see.. They have to rely on the public systems in place like the NHS, the council services and the benefits system and all these services are under strain from a booming population in part caused by mass poorly controlled immigration. On top of the existing strain on said services the government is at the same time reducing funding to all these services when the demand on them couldn't be higher. Essentially we have a growing population that has to subsist on a crumbling underfunded infrastructure. Additionally, for the low skilled working poor we also have to compete harder for fewer available full time low skilled jobs and compete harder for overpriced rented accomodation of questionable quality. When it comes to rented accomodation for example, most of the landlords are more often than not middle, upper middle and upper class and whom manage property portfolios that have an amount of properties often numbering into double figures. They have a monopoly on the rental market and are thus able to charge stupid amounts of rent for poor quality housing. This is again another example of their demographics benefitting from the status quo in which a a housing shortage exists in part due to a growing population that's largely stimulated by uncontrolled immigration, the higher birthrate of isolated migant communities and an overall aeging population.

Of course blame lies with both successive governments domestic and foreign policies. Policies including but not limited to those derved from our membership of the EU, our foreign policies where successive governments have spent billions blowing people up and destabilising nations in the Middle-East, actions which then contribute to regional instability which then leads to an increase in the flow of migrants and refugees... To complete the shitfest we have borders that aren't effectively managed or controlled leading to an uncontrolled amount of immigration. At this point they've failed our nation, or at least the working poor and unemployed on multiple levels. Their policies and ineptitude have contributed to an increase in the gap between the rich and poor and increased the threat of terrorism against the general populace both at home and abroad. In response to these threats they introduce new anti terror legislation that has infringed on all of our civil liberties and in some instances has been used to stifle protest, spy on and collect the data of millions of innocent people. With the almost certain implementation of TTIP social mobility for the working class will be almost entirely dead, except for the lucky few.. While the well to do middle and upper middle and upper classes will largely continue to happily live in their bubbles, bubbles far removed from many of our problems, they'll contniue to be able to hire cheap polish builders to build an extention on to their three storey town houses while they pay peanuts for childcare, peanuts for maids to clean their houses and can afford to spend all of their spare time studying University courses... These trends only threaten to increase the disenfranchisement the working poor and unemployed have with the system and its defence ofthe status quo, and will encourage these demographics to vote for more populist, fringe political parties, as we see in the EU and Britain today.

The status quo as it stands may not only continue to doom the working poor, but if those benefitting and profitting from it aren't careful, it threatens their own futures, the future of our nations and civilised societes too.

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