cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yuang on February 24, 2016, 02:51:09 am

Title: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yuang on February 24, 2016, 02:51:09 am
My suggestion is that in addition to the dagger, other weapons can't have 0 slots. This is unfair.
Look at the arrows, some 1 slots, some of the arrow is 0 slots, which is not reasonable. For 0 slots, so some archers would have pulled out a "Great Long Bardiche" from the crotch. Too funny! :D
A lot of 1H weapon is 0 slots, which will take care of ranged.
About slots, please adjust.

I know some of the weapons is 0 slots, which will increase the fun of the game, so plz discuss it, set reasonable scheme.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Froi on February 24, 2016, 05:05:32 am
no
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Guray on February 24, 2016, 05:20:09 am
My suggestion is that in addition to the dagger, other weapons can't have 0 slots. This is unfair.
Look at the arrows, some 1 slots, some of the arrow is 0 slots, which is not reasonable. For 0 slots, so some archers would have pulled out a "Great Long Bardiche" from the crotch. Too funny! :D
A lot of 1H weapon is 0 slots, which will take care of ranged.
About slots, please adjust.

I know some of the weapons is 0 slots, which will increase the fun of the game, so plz discuss it, set reasonable scheme.
ok then make everything 1 slot.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Gurgumul on February 24, 2016, 06:26:03 am
More 2h weapons and polearms should take 3 slots so that the strongest melee fighters are restricted to melee and maybe something to throw. Shields should also take slots: 1 for small ones, 2 for mediums and 3 for the biggest ones like the board shield and viking table, but at the same time buff shields plox. All arrows and bolts should take slots so that you're forced to choose between a strong weapon, but less ammo or a less strong weapon, but more ammo. Would also make archers/crossbomen have to choose between a full-on ranged equip with a 0 slot 1h weapon, or less ranged potential, but more ability to defend yourself in melee. Right now you are rarely limited with slots and they don't have much use in the current state.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Larvae on February 24, 2016, 06:42:27 am
More 2h weapons and polearms should take 3 slots so that the strongest melee fighters are restricted to melee and maybe something to throw. Shields should also take slots: 1 for small ones, 2 for mediums and 3 for the biggest ones like the board shield and viking table, but at the same time buff shields plox. All arrows and bolts should take slots so that you're forced to choose between a strong weapon, but less ammo or a less strong weapon, but more ammo. Would also make archers/crossbomen have to choose between a full-on ranged equip with a 0 slot 1h weapon, or less ranged potential, but more ability to defend yourself in melee. Right now you are rarely limited with slots and they don't have much use in the current state.

we are already restricted.

if u take 0 slot arrows,u wont dmg heavy guys in ranged,if u take bodkin arrows,u are able to deal dmg to heavy armor,but u need a 1h weapon.

so there is already balance^^

stop trying to nerf,buff everything all the time,its annoying^^
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Gurgumul on February 24, 2016, 06:46:59 am
if u take 0 slot arrows,u wont dmg heavy guys in ranged,if u take bodkin arrows,u are able to deal dmg to heavy armor,but u need a 1h weapon.
a 2h hero AND an archer
now that's a new level of bundle of sticks
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Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Kelugarn on February 24, 2016, 06:51:27 am
a 2h hero AND an archer
now that's a new level of bundle of sticks

Looks like you missed the magic of full plate 2h archers circa 2011
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yuang on February 27, 2016, 06:19:46 pm
Why not still nerf ranged? Especially the bow. Almost all people are complaining about, devs waiting for what? Now look at the battlefield, this is not CRPG, this is CSPG. People only know, shoot, shoot, shoot...... Game player AFK. MOD will die! :mad:
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: XyNox on February 27, 2016, 07:25:25 pm
My suggestion is that in addition to the dagger, other weapons can't have 0 slots. This is unfair.
Look at the arrows, some 1 slots, some of the arrow is 0 slots, which is not reasonable. For 0 slots, so some archers would have pulled out a "Great Long Bardiche" from the crotch. Too funny! :D
A lot of 1H weapon is 0 slots, which will take care of ranged.
About slots, please adjust.

I know some of the weapons is 0 slots, which will increase the fun of the game, so plz discuss it, set reasonable scheme.

I am sorry but if you have trouble defeating an archer wielding a great long bardiche or any other slow and cumbersome weapon you just need some practice. An archerbuild that meets the requirement to even equip such a weapon ( 22 STR, 88 spr ) will have about no melee WPF if he wants to hit anything with his bow, leaving him swinging in slowmotion. On top of that there is the armor weight restriction for archers and the quiver weight nerf. In terms of melee capability, you are basically fighting a midlevel opponent who did put his attributes in the wrong places.

On top of all the aforementioned disadvantages that are already in place to ensure an easy kill once ranged got caught in a melee fight, your suggestion would also limit their maximum melee range to about 50ish - 60ish range if we consider the hand axe and the short falchion weapons that might stay at 0 slots. So all in all, if you die to somebody like that, he hands down deserved the kill.

Missile speed stand on an entirely different page though and as I hear is already being worked on with great haste.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Tiger on February 27, 2016, 08:04:19 pm
Why not still nerf ranged? Especially the bow. Almost all people are complaining about, devs waiting for what? Now look at the battlefield, this is not CRPG, this is CSPG. People only know, shoot, shoot, shoot...... Game player AFK. MOD will die! :mad:

Sorry Yuang, but Range has been nerfed enough =( They said they will decrease the missile speed in another patch or something. But taking away 0 slot Barbed Arrows will take away the possibility of being an archery and using a 2 handed weapon =(
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Casul on February 27, 2016, 08:14:49 pm
How dare you downvoting our chinese emporer

His words are the law
kneel filthy peasants
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on February 27, 2016, 09:40:40 pm
How dare you downvoting our chinese emporer

His words are the law
kneel filthy peasants

I never downvoted anything of his until this

All this post screams is

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Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Sagar on February 27, 2016, 10:01:54 pm
Right now is unplayable ... range need restriction in every aspect.

- Remove 0 slots/add 1
- Raise difficulty for bows
- Add power draw for crossbows
- Throwing is also super-easy

Right now there is no penalty for any range class (archer, crossbowmen, thrower).
You can make full range/melee player without any restriction, and that is very wrong - really fucked up game balance.

We need range adjustment patch ASAP.

Yea, no fun fo anyone except range class ...
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on February 27, 2016, 10:03:26 pm
Right now is unplayable ... range need restriction in every aspect.

- Remove 0 slots/add 1
- Raise difficulty for bows
- Add power draw for crossbows
- Throwing is also super-easy

Right now there is no penalty for any range class (archer, crossbowmen, thrower).
You can make full range/melee player without any restriction, and that is very wrong - really fucked up game balance.

We need range adjustment patch ASAP.

Yea, no fun fo anyone except range class ...

I have plenty of fun on my 3/42 shielder
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Turkhammer on February 27, 2016, 10:09:35 pm
How dare you downvoting our chinese emporer

His words are the law
kneel filthy peasants

He's gotten a free ride for too long.  Now he's part of the community, poor guy.  Besides he doesn't even claim to be a girl archer, pffft, no slack for him.

Right now is unplayable ... range need restriction in every aspect.

- Remove 0 slots/add 1
- Raise difficulty for bows
- Add power draw for crossbows
- Throwing is also super-easy

Right now there is no penalty for any range class (archer, crossbowmen, thrower).
You can make full range/melee player without any restriction, and that is very wrong - really fucked up game balance.

We need range adjustment patch ASAP.

Yea, no fun fo anyone except range class ...

Do you have a ranged character that you actively use?
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: illogical on February 27, 2016, 10:13:01 pm
- Remove 0 slots/add 1
- Raise difficulty for bows
- Add power draw for crossbows
- Throwing is also super-easy
Hardcore, no fun. After these changes, do not forget to delete my character.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Sagar on February 27, 2016, 10:24:34 pm
Yea I have two range character in active use - archer and crossbowman. I play a lot with all classes (over 100 generations) on different characters. 
After last range-buff patch, I don't see that melee players writing demands - "qq or I quit the game"
But at the other side ... when you throw some suggestions you have - "I will delete my character", "I quit" ....

Right now range is supereasy.
 
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Finse on February 27, 2016, 10:28:48 pm
Right now is unplayable ... range need restriction in every aspect.

- Remove 0 slots/add 1
- Raise difficulty for bows
- Add power draw for crossbows
- Throwing is also super-easy

Right now there is no penalty for any range class (archer, crossbowmen, thrower).
You can make full range/melee player without any restriction, and that is very wrong - really fucked up game balance.

We need range adjustment patch ASAP.

Yea, no fun fo anyone except range class ...


Range, range, range, range..... Get a fucking Shield and stop being a bitch
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: XyNox on February 27, 2016, 10:29:15 pm
Right now is unplayable ... range need restriction in every aspect.

- Remove 0 slots/add 1
- Raise difficulty for bows
- Add power draw for crossbows
- Throwing is also super-easy

Right now there is no penalty for any range class (archer, crossbowmen, thrower).
You can make full range/melee player without any restriction, and that is very wrong - really fucked up game balance.

We need range adjustment patch ASAP.

Yea, no fun fo anyone except range class ...

I know right ? Its unbearable.

- All these archers running around with longbow + 2 quiver + long volgue because there are no slot restrictions.
- All of them wear full plate because there are no armour weight restrictions for ranged.
- They can also spam those long volgues around like air with their 200 pole wpf builds, because there is absolutely no build restriction by hybridizing since ranged weapons work at full efficiency even with 1 wpf.
- Quiver weights are absolutely too light and pose no restriction to their footwork and general mobility and fighting capabilities.
- The fact that, as we all know, ranged has magic unlimited ammo quivers/pouches and they do not have to worry about ammo is not restricting them though it should.

Id like to believe this was a bad troll attempt. If not, have some of that cynicism. I am past those times where I would rush to the forums and participate in those verbal-nerfthread-brawls but just in case this was actually meant as a serious suggestion, son, that is without a doupt the most retarded anti ranged lobbying I heard in a long time.

Yea I have two range character in active use - archer and crossbowman. I play a lot with all classes (over 100 generations) on different characters. 

Oh, are you sure about that ? ;)
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Sagar on February 27, 2016, 10:48:57 pm
Your reaction (just as any other range player) Is just as expected.
So scared that someone can actually mess up with your easy class.
These are just some suggestions for incoming patch, which will include nerf anyway (its confirmed).
Enjoy it while it lasts ...
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: XyNox on February 27, 2016, 11:33:52 pm
Your reaction (just as any other range player) Is just as expected.
So scared that someone can actually mess up with your easy class.
These are just some suggestions for incoming patch, which will include nerf anyway (its confirmed).
Enjoy it while it lasts ...

An answer that I as much expected as well, which made me think about a little wager.

Up to this day, many have been bold enough to claim how easy the opposite side it has, yet nobody had the guts to deliver.

Let's agree on a time and date, you go to EU1 and the rest of us watches you completely annihilating the entire server in ranged combat as well as melee alike.

If you - for some mysterious reason - are able to live up to your venturous claims you will get one loompoint. If you are not able to, I will get a loompoint. If the loser doesnt pay up, he gets a permanent ban ( which will be nothing for you to be afraid of since you will clearly leave as stand corrected. ) More specific terms for this would follow of course.

Your next answer I also can already expect but just for the sake of fairness, what will it be ?
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Sagar on February 27, 2016, 11:39:21 pm
you go to EU1 and the rest of us watches you completely annihilating the entire server in ranged combat as well as melee alike.

You now very well that doesn't work like that.

Don't be so upset, patch is behind corner - and everything will be just fine ....  :)
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: XyNox on February 27, 2016, 11:45:07 pm
You now very well that doesn't work like that.

And what would be the reason for that ? As I said I already expected a cheap excuse but according to your earlier statements, it should not be of any concern where or how you play, as long as you play ranged you would simply eradicate everyone. So what it is the problem all of a sudden ?  :wink:
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 27, 2016, 11:46:33 pm
People want archers to not be able to kite, so they are forced to play a bit more melee hybrid with str. But thats not acceptible either, so they shouldnt be able to melee, and not kite. But then they should atleast be compensated with ranged damage, but i guess thats a no go aswell. (I'll agree to more damage, but less missile speed but still, removing their melee options is completely silly.)
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Sagar on February 27, 2016, 11:51:55 pm
One archer cant "annihilate" the entire server.
I don't know when you play last time, but now - as melee, you are dead in very very short time.
Amount of range players is huge, and new missile speed make impossible to dodge projectiles.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: XyNox on February 28, 2016, 12:05:28 am
Yea I have two range character in active use - archer and crossbowman. I play a lot with all classes (over 100 generations) on different characters. 
After last range-buff patch, I don't see that melee players writing demands - "qq or I quit the game"
But at the other side ... when you throw some suggestions you have - "I will delete my character", "I quit" ....

Right now range is supereasy.

Your reaction (just as any other range player) Is just as expected.
So scared that someone can actually mess up with your easy class.
These are just some suggestions for incoming patch, which will include nerf anyway (its confirmed).
Enjoy it while it lasts ...

Oh but pease, let us not get lost by fiddling with such trivial word play, what can be considered as annihilating or not. "Supereasy", "mess up with your easy class", whatever it may be called, I think we all understand the sentiment. You reaching a KD of lets say ... 4:1 at the end of 3 rounds in a row while being in the top 20% of the scoreboard and scoring a minimum of 5 kills each map is surely not a hinderence for you once wielded the power of a bow. Now with the formalities out of the way and a more clear picture of what has to be achieved, I believe there is nothing left standing in the way of our little bet, is there ?

You dont really want that loompoint drifting out of your grasp and in the same turn let everyone think you are a hypocrite, do you ?
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yeldur on February 28, 2016, 12:12:13 am
Well, Yuang is our leader therefore everything you say is correct, so I am inclined to agree with everything you say.


Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yeldur on February 28, 2016, 12:13:54 am
One archer cant "annihilate" the entire server.
I don't know when you play last time, but now - as melee, you are dead in very very short time.
Amount of range players is huge, and new missile speed make impossible to dodge projectiles.

74% of my deaths by archers are from headshots since this patch, it broke archers completely. (statistic isn't accurate, just an average based on how many times I've seen myself get headshot from memory)

I do believe that this patch made archers incredibly unbalanced compared to the patches before, particularly because it nerfed xbows and buffed archers, and xbow is probably the biggest counter TO archers.
With some tweaking (I.E. Turning that fucking missile speed way back down so you can't insta-headshot from 1000 kilometers away) I do believe archers can be balanced out more.

I'll always hate archers because I do believe that they are an easy class to play but that's solely down to whether you can aim a mouse correctly, some can, some can't and obviously that's just my opinion, some people might find it difficult. All I know is that right now I don't think archers are balanced out correctly right now. High damage, high missile speed isn't the way to go. It should be high damage, bad accuracy/missile speed or low damage, high mis speed/accuracy
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Sagar on February 28, 2016, 12:35:00 am
With all that your cheap talk you will not get me in any bet ... not me. Maybe try with some younger, I'm too old for that shit.
I'm hypocrite? For statement that right now range is too easy, unplayable for melee, that need to be changed?
All that is true, and will be changed in next patch. So hold your breath and try range class these days - you will see that is supereasy.
As regards that lp, I have more than enough after 5 years of playing this mod, so leave it for yourself - maybe you will need new weapon or bow after patch ...
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: XyNox on February 28, 2016, 12:52:47 am
I guess even if I ask you for a 4th time now to prove your claims by actions you will come up with yet another retort on why you cannot do that.

No hard feelings Sagar, anti-ranged lobbying is as old as this forum itself and of course I knew that you would not agree to anything in the first place. Maybe next time though you might consider putting your money where your mouth is before making some daring claims, which were about the general/melee restrictions of ranged classes of course - not about about missile speed. Those need to be lowered of course :wink:

Maybe that is a concept that should be officially adopted - whoever requests a nerf for a class that he/she cannot do good with him/herself, all the characters of that person are stripped of 10% of their XP as a QQ-tax. Forum QQ would drop by 90% I predict.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yeldur on February 28, 2016, 01:51:59 am
I guess even if I ask you for a 4th time now to prove your claims by actions you will come up with yet another retort on why you cannot do that.

No hard feelings Sagar, anti-ranged lobbying is as old as this forum itself and of course I knew that you would not agree to anything in the first place. Maybe next time though you might consider putting your money where your mouth is before making some daring claims, which were about the general/melee restrictions of ranged classes of course - not about about missile speed. Those need to be lowered of course :wink:

Maybe that is a concept that should be officially adopted - whoever requests a nerf for a class that he/she cannot do good with him/herself, all the characters of that person are stripped of 10% of their XP as a QQ-tax. Forum QQ would drop by 90% I predict.

Punishing someone for whining is a stupid idea, let 'em whine, you don't have to respond.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: McKli_PL on February 28, 2016, 02:35:02 am
One archer cant "annihilate" the entire server.
I don't know when you play last time, but now - as melee, you are dead in very very short time.
Amount of range players is huge, and new missile speed make impossible to dodge projectiles.
ehhh kurwa what? 1 archer can fuck up realy good stack with good players like it was proven tons of time in the past but it require some mad focus and those couple of real archers were always a devastating force to reckon on battlefield.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Son Of Odin on February 28, 2016, 02:49:17 am
How dare you downvoting our chinese emporer

His words are the law
kneel filthy peasants

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Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yuang on February 28, 2016, 03:03:21 am
Archer, mention this occupation, some people love or hate. But yesterday I was angry!

As an archer, they have a very big advantage. Because of higher level, they can have more WPF and more PD. They have 0 slots, fast speed, high accuracy, great damage, and can wear plate. They have a sniper rifle, a sword or axe, run fast, powerful melee. Shield? Yes, he can only take care of an archer, and afraid of the axe. They are shameless old game player, they are elite melee. They can be leisurely killing in both near and far, once with a strong bow, so they are invincible. Maybe the CHN server and the NA&EU are not the same, because there is no archers WPF punishment. OP whining! NP fearing!

If things go on like this, CRPG really will be fewer and fewer people. We play with the pain. (these are things that I saw in CHN.)

Finally, I suggest again blockbuster, forced to cancel bow sight! At least I usually no sight shooting in a single game. You can reject me and give me downvote.  :D
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yuang on February 28, 2016, 04:31:41 am
What I say is not my personal point of view, this represents the most CHN game player comments. The number of CHN was less, because buff bows, fewer people. I don't know if I should say, the CHN server manually modifies the file to nerf bows in order to keep the players. Reduce the bow damage and accuracy, and improve the HP value of horses.

But all this can not stop the enthusiasm of archers. So now no longer change, just whatever.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Turk_Otto_Knight on February 28, 2016, 04:42:23 am
Either make balance that puts archers equaly to the both teams so that they can kill themselves or allow archers to do only 1 bar of damage..

Playing this mod more than 5 years and there were never a balance...Devs just wait untill someone or some clan abuses something(mostly archery).

Thats why crpg is still beta and it will always be untill the end.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Finse on February 28, 2016, 10:51:30 am
Archer, mention this occupation, some people love or hate. But yesterday I was angry!

As an archer, they have a very big advantage. Because of higher level, they can have more WPF and more PD. They have 0 slots, fast speed, high accuracy, great damage, and can wear plate. They have a sniper rifle, a sword or axe, run fast, powerful melee. Shield? Yes, he can only take care of an archer, and afraid of the axe. They are shameless old game player, they are elite melee. They can be leisurely killing in both near and far, once with a strong bow, so they are invincible. Maybe the CHN server and the NA&EU are not the same, because there is no archers WPF punishment. OP whining! NP fearing!

If things go on like this, CRPG really will be fewer and fewer people. We play with the pain. (these are things that I saw in CHN.)

Finally, I suggest again blockbuster, forced to cancel bow sight! At least I usually no sight shooting in a single game. You can reject me and give me downvote.  :D

You have Archer WPF punishment, we cant have Heavy armor it will cripple us unless we go full str build

And, we are by far not invincible, once 1 or 2 melee comes Close to a gang mobbed up he gets free kills
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: XyNox on February 28, 2016, 11:43:04 am
Maybe the CHN server and the NA&EU are not the same, because there is no archers WPF punishment.

I just had a quick join on the CHN server. Judging from a few rounds, it seems all the mechanics are in place there. Putting on plate armour notably decreases accuracy and bow drawspeed. My arrows are also as heavy as in EU/NA. Of course I could not really test my build to its full potential since I have around 300 ping there but I am not sure what CHN specific problem there is supposed to be.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Rico on February 28, 2016, 12:02:15 pm
You now very well that doesn't work like that.
i would love to see that epeen competition between xynox and sagar! why chicken out, sagar?
it does very well work like that, clear contracts have their place, even in the seemingly anarchist internet
upload a video as proof, we're gonna find somebody who delivers a LP or a ban :wink:

the cRPG community has been all talk so far. even what you call drama is talk. deliver some action, you got me leering
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Sagar on February 28, 2016, 12:43:27 pm
As I said before, I have many generations - also with range characters, but at bottom line I don't play as dedicated range player.
So how can I kill all server with bow/xbow? What are you talking about?

I just made some constructive suggestions for ranged classes - of which was said before, for exp: power draw for crossbows ... etc.
But everything goes just as expected - shitstorm/qq from range prefer community.
As usual, from talking of problems with range, we come to talk about: bets, chicken, lp ... and everything else, but not how to put range on it place - as support class, not full melee/range class.

As an archer, they have a very big advantage. Because of higher level, they can have more WPF and more PD. They have 0 slots, fast speed, high accuracy, great damage, and can wear plate. They have a sniper rifle, a sword or axe, run fast, powerful melee. Shield? Yes, he can only take care of an archer, and afraid of the axe. They are shameless old game player, they are elite melee. They can be leisurely killing in both near and far, once with a strong bow, so they are invincible. Maybe the CHN server and the NA&EU are not the same, because there is no archers WPF punishment. OP whining! NP fearing!

As Yang wrote - they are full melee/range class. What are they restrictions? How to make them more support class?

If range players think that my suggestions are not acceptable, let me see yours suggestions on subject - How to make range support class only?
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Finse on February 28, 2016, 12:44:06 pm
The main reason why everyone is complaining is cuz archery is not how their used to now, so they have to bitch untill it gets nerfed, happens everytime Archers get a benefit
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yeldur on February 28, 2016, 01:05:22 pm
The main reason why everyone is complaining is cuz archery is not how their used to now, so they have to bitch untill it gets nerfed, happens everytime Archers get a benefit
Even XynoX agrees that the missile speed buff is ridiculous, you're speaking as if Archers can get buffed and never have anything wrong with the buff and acting as if everything else is so far overpowered compared to archers when you're completely incorrect.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: XyNox on February 28, 2016, 01:14:51 pm
As I said before, I have many generations - also with range characters, but at bottom line I don't play as dedicated range player.
So how can I kill all server with bow/xbow? What are you talking about?

I just made some constructive suggestions for ranged classes - of which was said before, for exp: power draw for crossbows ... etc.
But everything goes just as expected - shitstorm/qq from range prefer community.
As usual, from talking of problems with range, we come to talk about: bets, chicken, lp ... and everything else, but not how to put range on it place - as support class, not full melee/range class.

As Yang wrote - they are full melee/range class. What are they restrictions? How to make them more support class?

If range players think that my suggestions are not acceptable, let me see yours suggestions on subject - How to make range support class only?

Look Sagar, the problem people have with your "constructive suggestion" is that it simply is empty lobbying that you are not even willing to prove. And since this is not the first time this happens but probably the 1000th time is why people or in particular me liked to call you out for that. Nobody is actually mad here but bored at best by the same old story.

Just because there is some archer killing you in melee while you play with a fully fleshed out melee build does not mean that archers have no build restrictions when it comes to melee ( because there are plenty as I pointed out before such armor/wpf/mobility/IF restrictions ), it rather means that you are a bad player. Forgive me for the blunt phrasing, I have no intention of insulting or demeaning you with this but you already have substantial advantages as a melee player you could learn to exploit, as a lot of melee players prove to be possible everyday. Just because you chose to play melee and chose to buy that shiny armour/sword doesnt mean you should automatically win every melee encounter with a ranged player if you dont have the necessary playerskill to put your build and equipment to use.

Judging by your previous responses I can only imagine that you are too angry right now to allow yourself accepting advise from a ranged player but I can again only ensure you that there are already plenty of restrictions in place. If you still think however that your point of view is correct, well, the offer still stands. I think everyone here eagerly awaits to see you in action and showing us that you do not only make empty claims.

Even XynoX agrees that the missile speed buff is ridiculous, you're speaking as if Archers can get buffed and never have anything wrong with the buff and acting as if everything else is so far overpowered compared to archers when you're completely incorrect.

Correct. My position on ranged balance is this:

http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/what's-wrong-with-archery-after-patch/msg1205338/#msg1205338

So far people appear to agree with my concept.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yeldur on February 28, 2016, 01:22:04 pm
Look Sagar, the problem people have with your "constructive suggestion" is that it simply is empty lobbying that you are not even willing to prove. And since this is not the first time this happens but probably the 1000th time is why people or in particular me liked to call you out for that. Nobody is actually mad here but bored at best by the same old story.

Just because there is some archer killing you in melee while you play with a fully fleshed out melee build does not mean that archers have no build restrictions when it comes to melee ( because there are plenty as I pointed out before such armor/wpf/mobility/IF restrictions ), it rather means that you are a bad player. Forgive me for the blunt phrasing, I have no intention of insulting or demeaning you with this but you already have substantial advantages as a melee player you could learn to exploit, as a lot of melee players prove to be possible everyday. Just because you chose to play melee and chose to buy that shiny armour/sword doesnt mean you should automatically win every melee encounter with a ranged player if you dont have the necessary playerskill to put your build and equipment to use.

Judging by your previous responses I can only imagine that you are too angry right now to allow yourself accepting advise from a ranged player but I can again only ensure you that there are already plenty of restrictions in place. If you still think however that your point of view is correct, well, the offer still stands. I think everyone here eagerly awaits to see you in action and showing us that you do not only make empty claims.

Correct. My position on ranged balance is this:

http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/what's-wrong-with-archery-after-patch/msg1205338/#msg1205338

So far people appear to agree with my concept.

Very much agree with all your points there, can only hope that something like this gets implemented.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Sagar on February 28, 2016, 03:24:10 pm
I can tell you right now that you completely misjudged me - I am far far away from it that I'm angry  :)

I think these days when you make a range build, everything is "unlocked", a bit too much (for choice of weapon .. etc.)
As I remember before couple years, when I want to play as archer, for secondary weapon I go with Small Pickaxe or Hand Axe, and that's it.
Now you can regularly take Great Axe. Balance team lost they way, adding/changing things. There was reason why that restriction existed in past.

Also my post from beginning of this thread was suggestion - not qq - there is difference.
Don't forget that I also play as range (I have full mw gear for xbow and bow - I spend lp and gold for them also)
No hard feelings XyNox .. We will see what new patch brings on.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Rico on February 28, 2016, 03:44:26 pm
on topic, i think some weapons such as yanmaodao, grosses messer and the 0 slot maces are too strong to be 0 slots
same for one handed axe and the higher tier short swords
can ask balancers about their evaluation and address the issue when raylin's balance experiment is done

edit: same for coltellaccio and fighting pick imo
edit2: inb4 personal involvement bias; using some of these weapons myself as thrower/archer/xbow/hoplite sidearms
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: XyNox on February 28, 2016, 04:20:53 pm
on topic, i think some weapons such as yanmaodao, grosses messer and the 0 slot maces are too strong to be 0 slots
same for one handed axe and the higher tier short swords
can ask balancers about their evaluation and address the issue when raylin's balance experiment is done

edit: same for coltellaccio and fighting pick imo
edit2: inb4 personal involvement bias; using some of these weapons myself as thrower/archer/xbow/hoplite sidearms

I have to disagree. When most of the 0slots past handaxe got introduced they already got a nerf for being 0 slot. Before that they followed the usual balance progression where they had overall weaker stats but were not completely outclassed by higher tier items. Especially for the 0slot maces, this balance progression does not apply anymore ever since the 0slot overhaul. Just take a look here:

(click to show/hide)

The current archers favorite spiked mace is completely outclassed by the iberian mace, which has +1 speed on top of the +2 blunt, while having the same or negligable better stats in all the other categories. Even when compared to the hard hitting iron mace which has +3 blunt and 0.7 more weight, they both share a speedrating of 97. The same principle holds true for the flanged mace compared to the winged mace etc.

About the grosses messer i am not so sure as well as in general I feel weapon reach is one of the most important weapon stats these days when people can S-key with at speed of light. I just dont see any need to nerf the melee capabilities of ranged classes on top of all the existing restrictions we already have when the main complaint always was about the ranged capabilities of ranged classes. Melee fighting is a skill based afterall and if you die against a subpar build, the enemy was simply better then you. No reason to nerf all the peoples inconvenience away again.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yeldur on February 28, 2016, 04:48:09 pm
tbh i just like the flanged mace over the winged because it looks less ugly >_>
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Gurnisson on February 28, 2016, 05:50:59 pm
Damn, one handed bar mace shits all over the warhammer, that ought to be changed. Don't give me the crap about it having a secondary mode, a blunt weapon with an inferior pierce mode, utter garbage.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yuang on February 28, 2016, 06:11:53 pm
What is the standard of 0 slots? The length of the arms? The weight? Strong? Appearance? Or personal preferences? Who can tell me? Forgive my impulse! 8-)
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: XyNox on February 28, 2016, 06:26:39 pm
What is the standard of 0 slots? The length of the arms? The weight? Strong? Appearance? Or personal preferences? Who can tell me? Forgive my impulse! 8-)

I guess the lenght is the most deciding factor given that the longest 0 slot weapon is 87. In the end there is no written rule about this other than what makes sense from a balance point of view.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Rico on February 28, 2016, 06:34:58 pm
the 0 slot maces cost lower upkeep. even if they were 1 slot and the stats slightly buffed, they still need to be inferior to higher tier maces.

i know; since everybody has millions of gold, upkeep is no longer a balance factor. but that can be changed.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yeldur on February 28, 2016, 07:39:42 pm
Damn, one handed bar mace shits all over the warhammer, that ought to be changed. Don't give me the crap about it having a secondary mode, a blunt weapon with an inferior pierce mode, utter garbage.

To be honest with you I think Warhammer is fine, I've used it before and I've done incredibly well with it, I personally consider it the best 1h no shield weapon to use because of its ability to deal with low armour and high armour, knockdown AND pierce as 1 weapon is very strong.

Although it has been a while since I actually played it, so it may have been changed since I last did.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Gurnisson on February 28, 2016, 11:16:14 pm
To be honest with you I think Warhammer is fine, I've used it before and I've done incredibly well with it, I personally consider it the best 1h no shield weapon to use because of its ability to deal with low armour and high armour, knockdown AND pierce as 1 weapon is very strong.

Although it has been a while since I actually played it, so it may have been changed since I last did.

I'm not saying warhammer is a bad weapon. However, compared to one handed bar mace it is a bad weapon. Warhammer needs a buff or the bar mace a nerf
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: the real god emperor on February 28, 2016, 11:43:32 pm
I'm not saying warhammer is a bad weapon. However, compared to one handed bar mace it is a bad weapon. Warhammer needs a buff or the bar mace a nerf

Anyone fought against the 1h Bar Mace must have noticed the enormous amount of ghostbox on that weapon. That and it has the same speed with the Warhammer, which makes little sense, 24p stab on a 65 length weapon can't be equal to 6 length.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Froi on February 29, 2016, 12:35:00 am
What is the standard of 0 slots? The length of the arms? The weight? Strong? Appearance? Or personal preferences? Who can tell me? Forgive my impulse! 8-)
This is why you guys shouldn't have given this chinese man Duke for no reason.  He thinks he has sway in the community now.  Damn commies.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yeldur on February 29, 2016, 01:03:13 am
This is why you guys shouldn't have given this chinese man Duke for no reason.  He thinks he has sway in the community now.  Damn commies.

Foolish heretic, you shall be purged for dare disobeying the mighty Yuang's command.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yeldur on February 29, 2016, 01:03:58 am
I'm not saying warhammer is a bad weapon. However, compared to one handed bar mace it is a bad weapon. Warhammer needs a buff or the bar mace a nerf

Ah I see, my mistake, and yes, I would agree that in a comparison of the two, the bar mace clearly takes the cake.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: KaleLord on February 29, 2016, 01:07:05 am
This is why you guys shouldn't have given this chinese man Duke for no reason.  He thinks he has sway in the community now.  Damn commies.

Grand Commissar Froi, you are being detained for interrogation for treasonous ideologies. If found guilty you will be sent to gulag #7

-Cue Commie Music-
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yuang on February 29, 2016, 01:12:34 am
This is why you guys shouldn't have given this chinese man Duke for no reason.  He thinks he has sway in the community now.  Damn commies.

Hey, man! I am an ordinary game player, I just suggestions for discussion. Why do you hate me so, always give me downvote. My 27 downvote, at least you vote for 15+. Maybe you hate the Communist Party, but I'm not! I am only your CRPG friends!
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Froi on February 29, 2016, 01:16:15 am
Hey, man! I am an ordinary game player, I just suggestions for discussion. Why do you hate me so, always give me downvote. My 27 downvote, at least you vote for 15+. Maybe you hate the Communist Party, but I'm not! I am only your CRPG friends!
Exactly what a communist gook would say!
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yuang on February 29, 2016, 01:38:21 am
Exactly what a communist gook would say!

The cultural revolution may appear again in the Chinese. I'm afraid, I hate communism, I also hate you don't understand me. Please take back the downvote, we are together. Don't talk about communism, okay?
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yeldur on February 29, 2016, 02:16:45 am
See Froi, Lord Yuang loves all, he hates none, he is our protector, our watcher, our God.

All praise the mighty Yuang. Saviour of all.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Yuang on March 02, 2016, 07:55:40 pm
Look, this is the plate armor Archer, with "Great Long Bardiche"! Headshot rate is very high!

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Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Tiger on March 02, 2016, 08:42:31 pm
Look, this is the plate armor Archer, with "Great Long Bardiche"! Headshot rate is very high!

It's ok, all the other archers can probably outshoot the plate archers any time though. That much armor decreases accuracy a bit.
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: TO_XBF on March 02, 2016, 08:50:03 pm
Actually in a punishment not think seriously, you can try 30 15 or 30 12 archers. In the CN is called "daligong".10Power Draw,10Power Strike,10Iron Flesh,Weapon Master5 or 4!Must wear plate armour and Great Long Bardiche!
Title: Re: Why so many 0 slots?
Post by: Akavirius on March 03, 2016, 06:37:24 pm
I guess it's just the opposite of the agi troll build.