cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: bensai on February 09, 2016, 06:38:59 am

Title: End this ranged malaria
Post by: bensai on February 09, 2016, 06:38:59 am
To be candid, the ranged is out of hand. These past couple weeks, every time I get on NA1, a solid 50%+ of one or both teams are ranged; archers, xbows, throwers, but mostly hordes of HoC or White Stallion archers bannerstacking.

it's cancer, and please if you know someone who died of cancer, take all possible offense, archers are worse.

they are a malignant tumor, growing and growing until the host body (crpg) is dead. Brave eWarriors are dropping like flies.

btw bringing a shitty 0 difficulty shield doesn't do anything archers can just shoot your legs or head.

idk what a solution is; Limiting amounts of non-melee classes per team, or nerfing ranged harder.

desire once said on NA1 that ranged kiting is basically over. SAY THAT TO MY 21/27 THROWING LANCE/THROWING DAGGER STF!!!!1q!!HUMBUG
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Godfredus on February 09, 2016, 07:03:40 am
The main problem are not simple archers, lower than 35th level, they ARE nerfed as hell. The problem is that high-leveled archers with loomed bows and arrows are too deadly, while 35lvl archers don't do much damage.
I think, MW bows and arrows should be nerfed, not archery itself.

Remove damage bonus for MW arrows — the increase of amount of arrows and decrease of weight is enough.

Make MW Longbow/Rusbow/Yumi/Bow drawing speed slower than regular's Longbow/Rusbow/Yumi/Bow, if MW Longbow/Rusbow/Yumi/Bow's missile speed incresaes when loomed.
Increase STR requirements for MW Longbow/Rusbow/Yumi/Bow, set it to 27 STR for Longbow, 24 STR for Bow, 27 STR for Rus bow.

If archers want to do much damage, let them do: take away their athletics or accuracy. Make it easier for SKF archers to hunt on dedicated high-leveled archers.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Leesin on February 09, 2016, 07:26:23 am
The problem isn't even just archers, even at level 35 an archer is far more specced into being an Archer than anything else to be effective, it's the easy mode xbow's ( no PD requirement leave more skill points to use elsewhere meaning stronger melee, plus more accurate and powerful ) every other player has a throwing weapon too. In fact them both combined with the Archers are the reason why I am actually playing an Archer, well I do have 100 in 1h and 6 PS but that's just back up. I came back to play cRPG after a very long time and when I tried to play melee I just got shot to fuck by everything, so I specced to use my MW Horn Bow and MW Tatar Arrows so I could shoot them back.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Paul on February 09, 2016, 08:14:28 am
You could lobby for the following:

Woodworm Infestation

The more ranged a team has the higher is the chance that a quiver gets this. Whenever a bolt or arrow is loosed there is a chance of a failure with the projectile breaking into half. The user gets the message: "OH SNAP! Woodworms.". Only cure for plebs is going one or two rounds melee only. Donators get pesticides.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Asheram on February 09, 2016, 09:42:24 am
You could lobby for the following:

Woodworm Infestation

The more ranged a team has the higher is the chance that a quiver gets this. Whenever a bolt or arrow is loosed there is a chance of a failure with the projectile breaking into half. The user gets the message: "OH SNAP! Woodworms.". Only cure for plebs is going one or two rounds melee only. Donators get pesticides.
wait you already break our xbows
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Nightingale on February 09, 2016, 11:02:26 am
desire once said on NA1 that ranged kiting is basically over. SAY THAT TO MY 21/27 THROWING LANCE/THROWING DAGGER STF!!!!1q!!HUMBUG

To be fair the discussion was about Crossbows; I'm well aware throwers can still kite more effectively than any other class. Archers can't kite well unless with other archers and xbowers still can't kite if the person pursuing is avidly chasing them, will never be able to reload until you get help from a teammate or kill your pursuer.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Molly on February 09, 2016, 11:10:37 am
Hands of Throwers... most suffering 'class' in crpg history. We never got any love!

It's inaccurate, we need to spec into melee and throwing equally and the only really deadly weapon are the lances with low ammo.
Don't you dare complain about throwers!  :evil:
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Moncho on February 09, 2016, 11:26:54 am
I have never seen this thread before, this is totally new information...
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: BlueKnight on February 09, 2016, 11:27:41 am
I don't think NA knows what EU feels, gg advancing them anyone
(click to show/hide)

Execution
(click to show/hide)

Run out of targets? Shielder will do!
(click to show/hide)

Ranged kills 14, melee kills 15, gg support class... CS:PG
(click to show/hide)

I have a few more of these. How much more imgur space has to be wasted for someone to do something with this plague

Yes, heavy QQ but imho much needed!

Afaik power draw also increases missile speed which makes it easier to pew and plenty of EU archers are running 30-15 builds with not only maxed out damage but also pretty high missile speed. Why do I even care...
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Rico on February 09, 2016, 12:10:15 pm
desire once said on NA1 that ranged kiting is basically over. SAY THAT TO MY 21/27 THROWING LANCE/THROWING DAGGER STF!!!!1q!!HUMBUG

Weird that kiting with 9 Athletics (I assume?) is possible on NA
In EU meta 9 Athletics still counts as STR build
It's perfectly normal that skilling 10 Athletics and wearing medium armor makes you just as fast as the rest of the EU1 tryhards
If you want to effectively kite you need +3 Athletics compared to meta, which is kinda impossible on EU
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Finse on February 09, 2016, 12:48:16 pm
I don't think NA knows what EU feels, gg advancing them anyone
(click to show/hide)

Execution
(click to show/hide)

Run out of targets? Shielder will do!
(click to show/hide)

Ranged kills 14, melee kills 15, gg support class... CS:PG
(click to show/hide)

I have a few more of these. How much more imgur space has to be wasted for someone to do something with this plague

Yes, heavy QQ but imho much needed!

Afaik power draw also increases missile speed which makes it easier to pew and plenty of EU archers are running 30-15 builds with not only maxed out damage but also pretty high missile speed. Why do I even care...

Its several times that Archers manages to save You from mulitple enemies, You put it out to be many Archers yes, because everyone is either 2h or polearm or cav, so of they do it, its easy.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Mr.K. on February 09, 2016, 01:04:26 pm
I for one would love to see some weapon/class damage stats like few years back to actually show how much of this problem is based on reality and how much is just QQ. I feel like 2h is prolly the least played class atm, while ranged deals far higher precentage of the damage than ever before due to no hard counters and incredibly easy aim with the current high missile speeds, but it's hard to tell. I feel forced to play a shielder atm which takes most of the fun out of the game for me...
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Krave on February 09, 2016, 01:11:50 pm
Weird that kiting with 9 Athletics (I assume?) is possible on NA
In EU meta 9 Athletics still counts as STR build
It's perfectly normal that skilling 10 Athletics and wearing medium armor makes you just as fast as the rest of the EU1 tryhards
If you want to effectively kite you need +3 Athletics compared to meta, which is kinda impossible on EU

Not true at all  :rolleyes: I think most popular 2h/pole are 24/21 and 21/24. 27 agi and more it's lightspeed. As I'm 21/21 cav in heavy armor I rarely feel outspammed by pure melee builds.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 09, 2016, 01:13:00 pm
Play str based builds, play shielders, play safer, play objective etc etc. Try to survive, and you will probably manage to play around ranged. I think the only thing making people play ranged is because no one plays around them, atleast get a point or two in shield, set up shop at flags and win ez. If you are alone its an issue i guess, but try to rally team there.

Killing ranged class would also kill the mod btw.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: XyNox on February 09, 2016, 01:30:35 pm
Ranged stagger is gone, ranged damage/limb multipliers has been nerfed multiple, multiple times so even longbow headshots dont onehit the generic 2h spam build anymore, let alone body/armshots. Everybody has a shield these days. Maps on battle are mostly composed of COD arena type maps that go in circles with narrow passages and lots of cover, catering to melee gameplay. Quivers are still so heavy that a full plate can sometimes outrun an archer/can have substancial advantage in melee due to footwork. Archery in specific ( not so sure about throwing ) needs to sacrifice almost all wpf in order to be accurate being left outspammed by 2h lightsaber.

What else needs to happen ? I just did some damage testing yesterday and even with a fully loomed longbow and bodkin set with 7 PD and 175 archery wpf and still a 24 str / 8 if build with 52 headarmor ( which is not even a tank by todays highlevel standards ) will survive a point blank HS with about 2 or 3 bars left, then surviving another shot in the arm. Can some people not finally admit that they do not give a fuck about teamplay and try to be the hero every damn round ? Stay with your ranged, use cover, stay behind shielders, let the cav do his charge before you charge in just to complain about that teambump/lance that will inevitably happen a few seconds later. THOSE are the problems that I still see every day after 4 years because every time the generic melee player has a problem, instead of finding a solution it is simply nerfed away.'

Maybe now that Tydeus is gone now some more plausible ways of balance can be achieved.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Mr.K. on February 09, 2016, 01:43:57 pm

Dropping the quiver will allow you to fight okay in melee as you well know. Killing people in melee as an archer is not that hard tbh, although they do have a disadvatage. Agreed on the terrible CoD map rotation, but some of those maps also give lame monkey roofs for boring archer scrubs... Everyone brings a shield due to necessity and it makes for terrible gameplay. Not only are there a ton of archers, but other types of ranged as well.

7PD makes you an agi-whore. Try a proper str-build and you'll be onehitting most people with headshots. The biggest disadvantage for archer imo is not the lack of melee wpf, but the lack of armor. One mistake will get you killed most of the time, while the standard hero-build with 24-27 strength in heavy armor can take 9 hits :)
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: ARN_ on February 09, 2016, 02:04:01 pm
Ranged stagger is gone, ranged damage/limb multipliers has been nerfed multiple, multiple times so even longbow headshots dont onehit the generic 2h spam build anymore, let alone body/armshots. Everybody has a shield these days. Maps on battle are mostly composed of COD arena type maps that go in circles with narrow passages and lots of cover, catering to melee gameplay. Quivers are still so heavy that a full plate can sometimes outrun an archer/can have substancial advantage in melee due to footwork. Archery in specific ( not so sure about throwing ) needs to sacrifice almost all wpf in order to be accurate being left outspammed by 2h lightsaber.

What else needs to happen ? I just did some damage testing yesterday and even with a fully loomed longbow and bodkin set with 7 PD and 175 archery wpf and still a 24 str / 8 if build with 52 headarmor ( which is not even a tank by todays highlevel standards ) will survive a point blank HS with about 2 or 3 bars left, then surviving another shot in the arm. Can some people not finally admit that they do not give a fuck about teamplay and try to be the hero every damn round ? Stay with your ranged, use cover, stay behind shielders, let the cav do his charge before you charge in just to complain about that teambump/lance that will inevitably happen a few seconds later. THOSE are the problems that I still see every day after 4 years because every time the generic melee player has a problem, instead of finding a solution it is simply nerfed away.'

Maybe now that Tydeus is gone now some more plausible ways of balance can be achieved.
Problem is when 50% of the server is ranged...
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: njames89 on February 09, 2016, 02:13:46 pm
Ranged players disgust me.  8-)
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: chesterotab on February 09, 2016, 02:28:25 pm
BUFF CAV
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: illogical on February 09, 2016, 02:56:43 pm
In real life plate armor protected from arrows.
But the game is not life.
Game is a set of conventions necessary for balance.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Golem on February 09, 2016, 03:39:12 pm
REMOVE TARGETTING RETICLE
???
PROFIT

Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 09, 2016, 03:40:26 pm
Had a session today, didnt die a single time to ranged. People were complaining a lot throughout the map about them, but i had no issues. 2 shieldskill masterrace.

And i notice how people charge mindlessly a lot still, protip, dont fight a shielder out in the open if he has archers backing him up. Unless you have a lot of teammates so you can take him down quickly. Its all about staying out of the risk zone, or if you have to fight there, make sure to win the fight quickly.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Penitent on February 09, 2016, 04:03:54 pm
noobs

http://forum.melee.org/guides/(guide)-how-to-defend-against-archers-xbows-and-not-become-a-statistic/
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: njames89 on February 09, 2016, 04:09:49 pm
Buff Longsword
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Algarn on February 09, 2016, 04:23:03 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Seriously ? This thread again ? In order to kill people in one hit with 10 PD, they must be either :

- agi whores with less than 18 STR
- wounded
- not wearing a decent head armor (something less than 50)

If you complain about ranged, it's about the numbers of them. Unfortunately, "effective" archery builds are already extremely dedicated, and have either to sacrifice damage, or moving speed, in addition to melee skills. If you're whinning about them, then you should consider rolling an archer alt for some time to know what to do. If I get killed by 3 archers, I deserve it, and it's normal, because I wouldn't survive either against 3 melee spammers. Bear that in mind, and if you keep wondering why you can't win against 10 archers on your own, you're a pleb and deserve to get fucked quite hard.

Throwers, are worse than archery. It's basically STR archery, with the unability to get rid of empty quivers, nor even the ability to kill more than one person with 3 lances on EU servers. Without a lot of melee hybridization of course.

Crossbows... Well, they're annoying and unskilled, but still not that effective when you think about it. They won't kill someone with 2 arbalest bolts in the chest on EU.

Plebs. Why should you learn to play as a team, while you can whine like a bitch on forums, it's so much easier, right ?
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: bensai on February 09, 2016, 05:36:25 pm
Well here is another problem: its battle server at midnight, 12v12, the hoc and white stallio Archer groups of about ,4 each get balanced on the same team, while the opposing team may have one. The game has no way of balancing this situation. Yes, team 2 could try and cap flags, but the majority of maps spawn flags in open areas.

Maybe no nerf, but some sort of server limit to percentage of irregular classes like in ... In.... NW
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: bensai on February 09, 2016, 05:41:49 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Seriously ? This thread again ? In order to kill people in one hit with 10 PD, they must be either :

- agi whores with less than 18 STR
- wounded
- not wearing a decent head armor (something less than 50)

If you complain about ranged, it's about the numbers of them. Unfortunately, "effective" archery builds are already extremely dedicated, and have either to sacrifice damage, or moving speed, in addition to melee skills. If you're whinning about them, then you should consider rolling an archer alt for some time to know what to do. If I get killed by 3 archers, I deserve it, and it's normal, because I wouldn't survive either against 3 melee spammers. Bear that in mind, and if you keep wondering why you can't win against 10 archers on your own, you're a pleb and deserve to get fucked quite hard.

Throwers, are worse than archery. It's basically STR archery, with the unability to get rid of empty quivers, nor even the ability to kill more than one person with 3 lances on EU servers. Without a lot of melee hybridization of course.

Crossbows... Well, they're annoying and unskilled, but still not that effective when you think about it. They won't kill someone with 2 arbalest bolts in the chest on EU.

Plebs. Why should you learn to play as a team, while you can whine like a bitch on forums, it's so much easier, right ?

I can't win against ten archers because there shouldn't be a scenario where 10 of those fucking coons should be together in the first place. The most populace I've seen in na 1 in months is like 55, meaning 10 out of a team of 22 or 23 are archers in your hypothetical situation.

I don't know if you've seenNA1 lately but its bad m89
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Novamere on February 09, 2016, 05:44:03 pm
Remove targeting reticule and add sway, then watch how many people GTX from archery.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: McKli_PL on February 09, 2016, 06:10:19 pm
The main problem are not simple archers, lower than 35th level, they ARE nerfed as hell. The problem is that high-leveled archers with loomed bows and arrows are too deadly, while 35lvl archers don't do much damage.
I think, MW bows and arrows should be nerfed, not archery itself.

Remove damage bonus for MW arrows — the increase of amount of arrows and decrease of weight is enough.

Make MW Longbow/Rusbow/Yumi/Bow drawing speed slower than regular's Longbow/Rusbow/Yumi/Bow, if MW Longbow/Rusbow/Yumi/Bow's missile speed incresaes when loomed.
Increase STR requirements for MW Longbow/Rusbow/Yumi/Bow, set it to 27 STR for Longbow, 24 STR for Bow, 27 STR for Rus bow.

If archers want to do much damage, let them do: take away their athletics or accuracy. Make it easier for SKF archers to hunt on dedicated high-leveled archers.
Son plz shut the fuck up i fucking mean it, you are shit in this game no matter what class you are playing with, your so shit even bots on dtv pwning you and for fuck sake you wanna to balance classes in this game are you so fucking brain damaged? your logic is so failed your telling me that archer on 32 to 35 level can't be deadly as fuck? there is no big difference in Pd/Ps/Ath if u know what to 'cut' in making some solid archer builds,->removing damage bonus<- wtf is this u mean speedbonus, while ppl running infront of u or what? i saw you 'playing' (coz it wasnt playing) as an archer top kek lel omfg just a joke.
PS. i dont give a fuck how ur playing this game  tryharding/failing/having a fun with friends etc as far your fucking QQ'ing is not about balancing classes in this game especially if ur so bad player and dumb also
sorry for hard words but its a true
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gurnisson on February 09, 2016, 06:48:42 pm
Crossbows... Well, they're annoying and unskilled

It's much more skillful to kite endlessly and get the kill after x number of misses? Crossbows often only have their one shot that they have to make count. Not entering the balance discussion, just thought it was unfair to label the crossbow class unskilled, him being an archer.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 09, 2016, 07:40:10 pm
I can't win against ten archers because there shouldn't be a scenario where 10 of those fucking coons should be together in the first place. The most populace I've seen in na 1 in months is like 55, meaning 10 out of a team of 22 or 23 are archers in your hypothetical situation.

I don't know if you've seenNA1 lately but its bad m89

If they have 10 archers out of 20 players, they have a super weak melee lineup. Just demolish the melee before the archers can even kill anyone, and you've won the round. Easy as that. Generally having a lot of ranged leaves the team with a weak core, and so everyone spreads out or simply die to a bigger enemy blob.

Also youre talking as if youre playing 1v10, you have a team to play with. Dont go ninja, and if you do then dont complain about getting caught with your pants down.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Algarn on February 09, 2016, 08:46:27 pm
It's much more skillful to kite endlessly and get the kill after x number of misses? Crossbows often only have their one shot that they have to make count. Not entering the balance discussion, just thought it was unfair to label the crossbow class unskilled, him being an archer.

Never said I was being fair. Crossbows are pissing me off, and it's hard for me to be fair to something that pisses you off.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: woody on February 09, 2016, 09:15:30 pm
Go AGI shielder and hunt down ranged.

I whine about ranged as much as anyone but while 70% of server still hasnt got shields it cant be that bad.

Endlessly fighting ganks or getting shot by one clan member as a agi freak from the same clan is spamming you like an epilectic spastic is irritating but its also teamplay.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Jona on February 09, 2016, 09:23:35 pm
If they have 10 archers out of 20 players, they have a super weak melee lineup. Just demolish the melee before the archers can even kill anyone, and you've won the round. Easy as that. Generally having a lot of ranged leaves the team with a weak core, and so everyone spreads out or simply die to a bigger enemy blob.

Also youre talking as if youre playing 1v10, you have a team to play with. Dont go ninja, and if you do then dont complain about getting caught with your pants down.

You say this like you've never played against a team of 20 people that maybe had half a brain between all of them. More often than not if a team notices they have a strong ranged advantage they are (perhaps just barely) bright enough to realize that ranged players are stronger at a distance, and will therefore hold back and play more defensively. Then your team's 2:1 melee advantage will dwindle down to maybe a 1.5:1 advantage after 5 guys get picked off on while closing the gap. Assuming that the fight is perfectly even, and 10 melee players die on each side, then it's 5 battered and bruised melee players vs. 10 ranged players with full health. Those aren't very good odds even if all the ranged decide to engage in melee combat, which they won't.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: XyNox on February 09, 2016, 09:29:00 pm
The biggest disadvantage for archer imo is not the lack of melee wpf, but the lack of armor. One mistake will get you killed most of the time, while the standard hero-build with 24-27 strength in heavy armor can take 9 hits :)

I didnt even mention that, yeah.

Son plz shut the fuck up i fucking mean it, you are shit in this game no matter what class you are playing with, your so shit even bots on dtv pwning you and for fuck sake you wanna to balance classes in this game are you so fucking brain damaged? your logic is so failed your telling me that archer on 32 to 35 level can't be deadly as fuck? there is no big difference in Pd/Ps/Ath if u know what to 'cut' in making some solid archer builds,->removing damage bonus<- wtf is this u mean speedbonus, while ppl running infront of u or what? i saw you 'playing' (coz it wasnt playing) as an archer top kek lel omfg just a joke.
PS. i dont give a fuck how ur playing this game  tryharding/failing/having a fun with friends etc as far your fucking QQ'ing is not about balancing classes in this game especially if ur so bad player and dumb also
sorry for hard words but its a true

A bit rude choice of words but still, as to the content spot on I gotta admit.

You say this like you've never played against a team of 20 people that maybe had half a brain between all of them. More often than not if a team notices they have a strong ranged advantage they are (perhaps just barely) bright enough to realize that ranged players are stronger at a distance, and will therefore hold back and play more defensively. Then your team's 2:1 melee advantage will dwindle down to maybe a 1.5:1 advantage after 5 guys get picked off on while closing the gap. Assuming that the fight is perfectly even, and 10 melee players die on each side, then it's 5 battered and bruised melee players vs. 10 ranged players with full health. Those aren't very good odds even if all the ranged decide to engage in melee combat, which they won't.

NOPE, NEVER. I am not being sarcastic here. As a long time archer I can tell you dead serious that 99% of the time that is not gonna happen. You will still see your 2h players charge in right in front of a group of friendly ranged just to complain about getting teamhit. I know that it sounds like an exaggeration but I shit you not, melees are just too used to play as the heroes in this mod, thus cant handle any obstacle being thrown at them other than crying out for nerfs.

I just wish for balancers to finally get it together and simply do what needs to be done instead of turning down every change or reverting it as soon as the melee lobby cries ...
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 09, 2016, 09:49:21 pm
You say this like you've never played against a team of 20 people that maybe had half a brain between all of them. More often than not if a team notices they have a strong ranged advantage they are (perhaps just barely) bright enough to realize that ranged players are stronger at a distance, and will therefore hold back and play more defensively. Then your team's 2:1 melee advantage will dwindle down to maybe a 1.5:1 advantage after 5 guys get picked off on while closing the gap. Assuming that the fight is perfectly even, and 10 melee players die on each side, then it's 5 battered and bruised melee players vs. 10 ranged players with full health. Those aren't very good odds even if all the ranged decide to engage in melee combat, which they won't.

I was going to write something sarcastic but i couldnt pull it off sorry, anyways:

Youre writing this assuming the melee based team would be charging, why should they be charging the ranged teams melee in this scenario? While many people do love to charge mindlessly, in theory if people hold, wait for flags, then the melee based team will simply win because ranged just doesnt do much damage, atleast not fast enough to be of help trying to get flags.

Otherwise both teams generally have some people charging, who get continuously backed up by more teammates, untill one team is runs out of melee, and then its either a patience game or mow down ranged, depending on team builds and how big the clash was won. At this stage it usually looks like its the ranged doing all the work on the winning team, because a lot of them will still be alive since their melee won they wont really be put in too much risk. But in reality, the infantry did the majority even though many of them are dead. Ranged does help, mainly with taking down cav, but against infantry it seems like a good stagger is the most they'll do.

Also i have quite a lot of hours put into this game, please dont assume that i lack experience in this game. Pretty much never have i lost a battle in the recent years and thought it was lost due to ranged being overpowered, or even strong for that matter.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on February 09, 2016, 09:58:00 pm
I can't think of any tangible changes that could be made, outside of nerfing archery to a nearly-unusable state, to improve the team composition problem. Otherwise known as the "lol one team of 20 has 10 archers and one team has 2" effect.

The only way this could be fixed is through generations-long social engineering, in which altruism and communal tendencies are ham-fistedly rammed deep inside childrens' minds. As it stands, lax or non-existent social engineering has resulted in a populace of internet nerds possessing not the smallest shred of care for the majority of players' enjoyment. Truly, this sheltered population of nerds is a phenomenal example of the entitlement generation.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Umbra on February 09, 2016, 09:59:54 pm
Buff ranged
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Turkhammer on February 09, 2016, 10:00:38 pm
In real life plate armor protected from arrows.
But the game is not life.
Game is a set of conventions necessary for balance.

Nothing wrong or inaccurate with this post.  +1
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Tiger on February 09, 2016, 10:02:06 pm
Remove targeting reticule and add sway, then watch how many people GTX from archery.

Some of us already don't really need reticle, as I always watch where my arrows land.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: The Wicked Reach on February 09, 2016, 10:09:45 pm
Ranged has their own headaches...we have to be strategic in our positions and what shots to take.  Our number of arrows/bolts have been decreased, the weight of them affects our speed more.  Loading an arb takes like 7 seconds, plenty of time to charge, and (efficient) archer armor only takes 1-2 hits, 3 hits max.

Don't want to get shot? Dance a little or qft.

Some of us already don't really need reticle, as I always watch where my arrows land.

Really? I can't see far enough for most of my shots... I just know I got a hit from the tell-tale sound.  I think I can still do plenty of damage without the reticle, it'd be a nice challenge.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: BlueKnight on February 09, 2016, 10:17:32 pm
(click to show/hide)

Venom in the spoiler but imho plenty of good points, I recommend reading :wink:

You can go home now, thanks :mrgreen:
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Godfredus on February 10, 2016, 12:12:54 am
Son plz shut the fuck up i fucking mean it, you are shit in this game no matter what class you are playing with, your so shit even bots on dtv pwning you and for fuck sake you wanna to balance classes in this game are you so fucking brain damaged? your logic is so failed your telling me that archer on 32 to 35 level can't be deadly as fuck? there is no big difference in Pd/Ps/Ath if u know what to 'cut' in making some solid archer builds,->removing damage bonus<- wtf is this u mean speedbonus, while ppl running infront of u or what? i saw you 'playing' (coz it wasnt playing) as an archer top kek lel omfg just a joke.
PS. i dont give a fuck how ur playing this game  tryharding/failing/having a fun with friends etc as far your fucking QQ'ing is not about balancing classes in this game especially if ur so bad player and dumb also
sorry for hard words but its a true
Wow, so much emotions about anti-kiting balancing suggestion that will probably never be implemented, lol, that's so funny :mrgreen:
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Yeldur on February 10, 2016, 12:30:25 am
Agreed, ranged are a blight on the server and must be vanquished. For too long have they destroyed our lives with their arrows that instakill horses and do half of our health no matter how much armour or IF we have, for too long have people gone ezmode and played them for instant top of the scoreboard valour every turn action, for too long have they plagued the lands of C-RPG, they must be purged, but they're the one thing I CAN'T purge because shields do fuck all as well, because they can just run away like the cowards they are.

We must end this cancer before it destroys the server.

#DOWNWITHRANGED
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 10, 2016, 08:08:35 am
We must end this cancer before it destroys the server.

That moment when you realize it had the opposite effect. Lets avoid it.

Ranged nerfed to the ground, ~half the server drops out. Now there is 15-20 melee players on average, but with those lower numbers more melee are put off from joining, i mean only 15 players online? how boring. And then quickly it goes down from 15 to 0.

The fact that the server still gets population above 50 is impressive, such drastic changes as ranged nerfs will only kill it off.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Yeldur on February 10, 2016, 10:04:44 am
Never asked for ranged nerfs, I asked for something to deal with them, because currently, we can't.

Archers are strong without numbers and are broken beyond all hope WITH numbers, there are TOO MANY ARCHERS, there needs to be some kind of limit to how many archers you can have or something to stop the constant archer spam. Notice how a large majority of EU1 have also shoved crossbows into their builds. Want to know why? It's because they CAN'T deal with the ridiculous damage archers do, it's either hide away and shoot at the archers or die, because even with a shield, two archers together only have to run away in two different directions and then they can kill you in two shots because it's fucking easy to do.

Archers currently only have to go a pure STR build and voila, they now have the power to do more damage than a crossbow build with a +3 arbalest with +3 bolts. Is that right? No. It isn't.
Archers ARE killing this server purely on the basis that they are so much stronger than everything melee, and even playing a tanky build isn't an option because then they'll just run away and shoot you full of arrows. The size of their quiver is irrelevant, they can take out as many people as they like with the size it is now lol.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 10, 2016, 10:47:18 am
Archers ARE killing this server purely on the basis that they are so much stronger than everything melee,

No they arent? The server is doing just fine, basically the same amount of people playing since a year.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: bagge on February 10, 2016, 11:09:14 am
Y'all suck

The end
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Mr.K. on February 10, 2016, 03:26:12 pm

It was that same fine line that makes some movies so bad that they actually become good. Amount of archers yesterday was so ridiculous, it actually became sort of funny. I tried some pew pew and guess what - it was E Z.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: the real god emperor on February 10, 2016, 03:39:13 pm
Just get a crossbow, headshotting motionless archers is really fun
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Zorak on February 10, 2016, 04:22:05 pm
#RangedLivesMatter

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: njames89 on February 10, 2016, 04:24:57 pm
I have always found it funny how much ranged or cav or tincans seem to bother some players. All just a part of the game. Embrace your e-brethren and be happy crpg is a place where all classes are viable.

Besides who cares about dying in the battle server... maybe in strat but not in na or eu 1. Talkin' bout practice... not the game.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Ujin on February 10, 2016, 04:54:06 pm
http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/the-state-of-crpg/


4 years ago i made the same topic, just a little paragraph quote from it :

"It is an endless circle of cRPG where at some point the amount of ranged or cavalry (or both) classes becomes too overwhelming and i think we've reached it again .Don't get me wrong i'm not calling for a nerf per say in terms of stats or damage dealt by archers/xbowmen(debatable)/cavalry , i'm simply talking about finding a way to reduce their numbers."

If you quickly browse through that topic you'll realize that it's always been like this with cRPG, we're going in circles in terms of balance. Tbh at this point I, like many others, stopped caring too much and I just hope the new games (bannerlord, battlegrounds) will have a better balance when it comes to these issues.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: BlueKnight on February 10, 2016, 05:21:49 pm
Yesterday we played archers a little bit and this is one of my fav results that we got

(click to show/hide)

Top 6 guys in our team were archers and they scored 12 kills while melees scored 3. Top enemy player was also an archer and way better than any of us noobs playing this. Support class gg
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Umbra on February 10, 2016, 05:24:20 pm
Ranged is so weak now tho. I barely get hurt by arrows when i just wear some armor and invest in some IF. HA is completey dead and nonexistent, nobody plays HX. Only real threat is regular xbowmen. Perhaps the odd thrower here and there. Arrows weigh a ton, they reduced the number of them, increased the slots of bows, nerfed damage, shot frequency, you cant jump shoot anymore and need to put in more points to make it work than ever before, the stagger is dead compared to the old one, just about every aspect of archery has been significantly nerfed already.

Really, you guys are such fucking crybabies.-Native archery would make your nonexistent balls fall off. Even when we compare the archery in the mod, every past year they were exponentionaly stronger.

Just the same old 2h/pole gorrila chest beating circlejerk e-peen measure contest thread. Nothing to see here, move along.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gryph_Hawkshade on February 10, 2016, 05:44:37 pm
Ranged players disgust me.  8-)

Now you know how your mother felt when you spawned out of her.

You vile dejected piece of filth....

With all due respect. :p

hehe kidding,

Yeah I dunno about nerfin ranged ppl, personally I've never really had an issue with Ranged, makes for some hot knife in butter situations alot of times.
I'm only above average for melee at best... 

I cant help but agree with Jona and alot of other people about employing some of that brain power; no matter what Map or how many people are on, the team that will win is sometimes pretty evident at the beginning of the round by virtue of how many lemmings charge directly at the enemy force.

Would it really kill you guys to try and work as a team, wait a little bit and use an inkling of brains.
(If im in the top scores, you know the people playing are just bein downright tarded)  Dont charge at a group of archers, use enemies as cover, protect your own archers...

It all boils down to one thing.... stop bein fuckin LEMMINGS
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 10, 2016, 06:39:43 pm
Top 6 guys in our team were archers and they scored 12 kills while melees scored 3. Top enemy player was also an archer and way better than any of us noobs playing this. Support class gg

Judging the class based on 1 round with a stack vs a bunch of scattered randoms, seems legit
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: BlueKnight on February 10, 2016, 06:57:01 pm
Judging the class based on 1 round with a stack vs a bunch of scattered randoms, seems legit
Shouldn't be possible.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 10, 2016, 10:03:12 pm
Shouldn't be possible.

Which part? The judging part, or the archers actually being able to kill stuff part?
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: bensai on February 10, 2016, 10:23:20 pm
Ranged is so weak now tho. I barely get hurt by arrows when i just wear some armor and invest in some IF. HA is completey dead and nonexistent, nobody plays HX. Only real threat is regular xbowmen. Perhaps the odd thrower here and there. Arrows weigh a ton, they reduced the number of them, increased the slots of bows, nerfed damage, shot frequency, you cant jump shoot anymore and need to put in more points to make it work than ever before, the stagger is dead compared to the old one, just about every aspect of archery has been significantly nerfed already.

Really, you guys are such fucking crybabies.-Native archery would make your nonexistent balls fall off. Even when we compare the archery in the mod, every past year they were exponentionaly stronger.

Just the same old 2h/pole gorrila chest beating circlejerk e-peen measure contest thread. Nothing to see here, move along.

shut ur fucking mouth i dont circlejerk ever and my dick is long irl so stfu im not acrybabby u can never nerf ranged 2 much

why dont u cum on NA1 and deal with this archer bannerstack shit u shit
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: bensai on February 10, 2016, 10:47:18 pm
SOME PRIME EXAMPLES:

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Prpavi on February 10, 2016, 11:01:40 pm
get armor, get IF, get a shield, get gud!
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Xesta on February 11, 2016, 11:11:06 am
Just get footwork like me the best Player of c-rpg. No need for plate/shield/if, just dodge the arrows with godlike footwork and stop trying to nerf their already small my old friendcher dicks, lel.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Umbra on February 11, 2016, 12:21:14 pm
I respeced to xbow, let the games begin.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Kitsu on February 11, 2016, 12:25:52 pm
Plus some of us were never given the chance for a melee life... I was born into archery... Molded by it...
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: jtobiasm on February 11, 2016, 01:24:09 pm
I notice it's all the shit players complaining, not 1 good player is actually crying.

I've not really played since the 5v5 tourney in 2014, I might get some old friends together who are actually good archers to give you all a lesson.

imagine if we had a stack now like we used to. Example me bagge robinhood and someone like Gerard on a team.

You'd fuckers would actually cry.

You've seen nothing, u lows
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: njames89 on February 11, 2016, 02:19:49 pm
I respeced to xbow, let the games begin.

That's the spirit! If you can't beat em, join em!
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Seroth on February 11, 2016, 04:01:36 pm
I notice it's all the shit players complaining, not 1 good player is actually crying.

I've not really played since the 5v5 tourney in 2014, I might get some old friends together who are actually good archers to give you all a lesson.
Why would you call someone bad player since you haven't played the game for over 1 year? Thats really arrogant. :mad:
And yes, you would fck everyone up, not only because you are good archers but also because archers are overpowered in these days :)
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Kitsu on February 11, 2016, 04:33:00 pm
I've not really played since the 5v5 tourney in 2014, I might get some old friends together who are actually good archers to give you all a lesson.

You have not played since 2014... But with determination on giving us a great lesson get on some of the battles this weekend and truly show the passion that you have in kicking our asses. I mean you did in a way say that the archers we have on the battlefield are nothing compared to your skill, so it wouldn't be hard AT ALL to shoot them meta melee scum right ?!  :wink:
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: CaptBob on February 11, 2016, 06:16:14 pm
 :lol:  Shit tier nerds can't even dodge arrows. HOC HOC HOC

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Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 11, 2016, 06:28:34 pm
And yes, you would fck everyone up, not only because you are good archers but also because archers are overpowered in these days :)

How are they overpowered exactly?

Also after playing today, i keep noticing how everyone puts themself infront of ranged constantly, and never break off when they notice they are at a disadvantage. I think people just have crap ranged awareness, probably as crappy as my cav awareness.

Speaking of cav, today there was a lot of cav who mauled the other side constantly. Unlike ranged which doesnt really win rounds its just "annoying" to people, cav actually destroys rounds with some experience. And they take pretty much the same amount of effort to counter, im surprised people dont have issues with them as much as with ranged. Not saying they are op or needs nerfs, but they are probably the strongest class in the game in decent numbers.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: CaptBob on February 11, 2016, 06:29:37 pm
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Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Yeldur on February 11, 2016, 06:37:16 pm
get armor, get IF, get a shield, get gud!

Armour makes it worse as you're now slower
IF does nothing, it is a waste of a skill, archers can still 2 hit you with 10 IF and 30 STR
shields with 0 skill do fuck all because then they shoot you in the legs.
no fk u -:(
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Yeldur on February 11, 2016, 06:39:15 pm
How are they overpowered exactly?

Also after playing today, i keep noticing how everyone puts themself infront of ranged constantly, and never break off when they notice they are at a disadvantage. I think people just have crap ranged awareness, probably as crappy as my cav awareness.

Speaking of cav, today there was a lot of cav who mauled the other side constantly. Unlike ranged which doesnt really win rounds its just "annoying" to people, cav actually destroys rounds with some experience. And they take pretty much the same amount of effort to counter, im surprised people dont have issues with them as much as with ranged. Not saying they are op or needs nerfs, but they are probably the strongest class in the game in decent numbers.



lol no

How to beat cav:

Block down/Chamber
edit: OR get stabbed in the back making it impossible to do anything

How to beat archers:

Do 10000 spins in different directions whilst gaining no ground on them because they run away like the bitches they are
Pull out a shield only to get shot in the legs and still gain no ground because they run away like the bitches they are
hang yourself because you can't beat them because they are cunts because they run away like the bitches they are
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 11, 2016, 07:06:54 pm
(click to show/hide)

So in a situation where both teams are fighting clashed together, a horse comes, i can either take a hit from the horse or them enemy. A bump will be unblockable and then my best bet will be to roll and probably get rekt on getting up animation. In a 1v1 ofcourse you may have the advantage, but cav picks their fights, infantry doesnt chose when to attack the cav. They will find openings, and even if you are ready, the horses easily survive some hits. A single cav bump can be much more precise and deadly than an arrow/bolt, and used correctly its barely any risk. Couches can either oneshot you in plate, or do very little damage, its funny how it works but im sure this is pretty much the only thing that oneshots plate. Then we have multiple cav, which can chain bump an entire team etc, one gets stopped, the other one gets through, unless the enemy team put its entire focus on cav, and then probably dies to infantry etc.

Archers are nullified with a shield with around 5 shieldskill. They are also nullified by walls. Even if they have the chance to shoot, they do need about 7 arrows to kill me in heavy armor. Weight slowing you down makes you easier to hit as ranged is to me bullshit, i get hit WAY more on an agility based character. Dodging arrows has little to do with movements speed unless you drop your athletics below 6 (not sure, havent really tried it, but i guess if you become that slow then it might be easier to hit). Ironflesh + armor makes a monster, 7 arrows is about average it takes to kill me, and at average i get shot maybe 3 times per map. Archers also cant do anything if the flags pop up and the one capturing has a shield, or if there is any sort of cover.

Beating ranged doesnt mean you alone run up to them and kill them, if you can survive through the melee fights with some teammates you can easily get flags with ranged doing jack shit, or you can push them because archers cannot kill more than one person running up to them unless they are extremely wounded. Even then id be surprised if they kill one, its very easy and predictable to dodge closerange.


If you actually think that way, then youve probably given up on being able to fight them, and instead want them removed. Its one aspect of the game you cant overcome so you give up. Use your brain, instead of only using your muscle memory. Try to survive, and you probably will.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Tom Cruise on February 11, 2016, 07:09:49 pm
Guys how do I get out of the trench of 3k MMR in dota?
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 11, 2016, 07:14:28 pm
Guys how do I get out of the trench of 3k MMR in dota?

Become a good offlaner.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Tom Cruise on February 11, 2016, 07:16:10 pm
Become a good offlaner.

But who will support when the other four on my team pick carries?
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 11, 2016, 07:30:10 pm
But who will support when the other four on my team pick carries?

The secret is to win the game before any other player has a part in the game. As long as they havent fed, but instead youve been feeding on the enemy carry then you are good to go.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Umbra on February 11, 2016, 07:46:26 pm
Guys how do I get out of the trench of 3k MMR in dota?

Get good, "trench" is the excuse of baddies. And yes, its your fault, not the teams.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Tom Cruise on February 11, 2016, 07:48:07 pm
Get good, "trench" is the excuse of baddies. And yes, its your fault, not the teams.

NA dota though. Nothing but shitlord baby ragers and Peruvians.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: CaptBob on February 11, 2016, 08:10:55 pm
Play more techies
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Tom Cruise on February 11, 2016, 08:37:58 pm
Play more techies

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Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gurnisson on February 11, 2016, 09:16:44 pm
And yes, you would fck everyone up, not only because you are good archers but also because archers are overpowered in these days :)

jtobiasm was never a good archer
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Umbra on February 11, 2016, 10:37:29 pm
I climbed a lot when i played a dedicated support. Like, buying all wards curriers, sentries, tangos for mid, healing pots for carry, stacking woods, ancients, getting runes, always a tp on me for rotation etc. The difference between a team that has one and a team that doesent give a shit is huge.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: jtobiasm on February 11, 2016, 11:47:56 pm
jtobiasm was never a good archer
You're right, i was never good. I was just one of the best.

I'll openly admit that robinhood and bagge are better than me.

Results from tourneys proves i am good. Guess who the only archer to beat me twice out of 3 tourneys is? Thats right, the best archer in the game bagge.
(click to show/hide)

Now prove me wrong...
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: jtobiasm on February 11, 2016, 11:52:05 pm
Why would you call someone bad player since you haven't played the game for over 1 year? Thats really arrogant. :mad:
And yes, you would fck everyone up, not only because you are good archers but also because archers are overpowered in these days :)

I'm arrogant because it gets people mad as fuark.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Vengt037 on February 12, 2016, 04:15:02 am
I swear to God.

I've been away from this game for a year. I come back to my nerfed-to-shit thrower that I wasted 3 loompoints on, and the first thing I read on here is a thread demanding further ranged nerfs.

Instead of bitching like a little bitch about nerfing classes you're bad against, why not be a man and try to adapt your gameplay to the reality of the current meta.

You probably have helicopter parents.

Yours in mutual enmity til the end of time,
Vengt
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gurgumul on February 12, 2016, 04:40:16 am
You probably have helicopter parents.

Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gurnisson on February 12, 2016, 12:16:57 pm
You're right, i was never good. I was just one of the best.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You were average at best
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: McKli_PL on February 12, 2016, 03:31:14 pm
You're right, i was never good. I was just one of the best Forum warriors meanwhile in game on server :wink: :lol:
:mrgreen: 8-)
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Asheram on February 12, 2016, 09:24:10 pm
I swear to God.

I've been away from this game for a year. I come back to my nerfed-to-shit thrower that I wasted 3 loompoints on, and the first thing I read on here is a thread demanding further ranged nerfs.

Instead of bitching like a little bitch about nerfing classes you're bad against, why not be a man and try to adapt your gameplay to the reality of the current meta.

You probably have helicopter parents.

Yours in mutual enmity til the end of time,
Vengt
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Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: jtobiasm on February 12, 2016, 11:38:46 pm
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You were average at best

My tourney results prove im not, simple.

Make another Tourney 5v5 or 8v8, I can guarantee i will be in the final. Like every tourney I've been in.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Mr_Sativa on February 13, 2016, 11:38:18 am
You have to use your surroundings, awareness, move your shield around and move around your teammates. If you play a bit more focused, you will survive with a 0 skill shield. Especially with some teamwork.

This is one of few times, an archer can actually have some melee prowess and still not be totally worthless as an archer as well.

Stop this WHINING CANCER. That's what's killing anything. Your relentless negative pessimism.

Have a great day!
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Mr_Sativa on February 13, 2016, 11:39:10 am
Otherwise, how hard would if be for you to sacrifice 1-3 points into shield? Take from your IF, your stats, or anything else. That's what EVERYONE else is doing. It is fair.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Mr_Sativa on February 13, 2016, 12:03:06 pm
Never asked for ranged nerfs, I asked for something to deal with them, because currently, we can't.

Archers are strong without numbers and are broken beyond all hope WITH numbers, there are TOO MANY ARCHERS, there needs to be some kind of limit to how many archers you can have or something to stop the constant archer spam. Notice how a large majority of EU1 have also shoved crossbows into their builds. Want to know why? It's because they CAN'T deal with the ridiculous damage archers do, it's either hide away and shoot at the archers or die, because even with a shield, two archers together only have to run away in two different directions and then they can kill you in two shots because it's fucking easy to do.

Archers currently only have to go a pure STR build and voila, they now have the power to do more damage than a crossbow build with a +3 arbalest with +3 bolts. Is that right? No. It isn't.
Archers ARE killing this server purely on the basis that they are so much stronger than everything melee, and even playing a tanky build isn't an option because then they'll just run away and shoot you full of arrows. The size of their quiver is irrelevant, they can take out as many people as they like with the size it is now lol.

Don't know if you got dropped a lot as a kid on the ground, head first. This is some serious bullshit.

Your hypothetical talk is staggeringly shallow; if there are two archers, where is your ally? It's not a game where the teams start off 5v1 or 10v2 or like that. It's even numbers, as close as it can get. If you end up facing two archers, all alone, and you still attack them and die - that's your fucking fault. Learn to LEARN, get smart. Start playing and stop crying. Fucking baby.

You obviously don't know jack shit about the quiver sizes, normal builds for an acher today, dmg-comparison between an arbalest and my barbed arrows... What weedy little sap.

Have a good day!
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: sF_Guardian on February 13, 2016, 12:13:39 pm
JUst go 9/33+ Shieldwhore, voila, archer problem is gone. Crossbowmy old friends on the other hand are a totally different story since they don't really have to sacrifice anything to be good ranged and can still easily defend themselves in melee. Arbalesters are the shit pain on EU1 theese days IMO.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Rico on February 13, 2016, 05:21:51 pm
Not true at all  :rolleyes: I think most popular 2h/pole are 24/21 and 21/24. 27 agi and more it's lightspeed. As I'm 21/21 cav in heavy armor I rarely feel outspammed by pure melee builds.
you don't carry 2 quivers and a ranged weapon
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 15, 2016, 06:57:37 pm
Hands of Throwers... most suffering 'class' in crpg history. We never got any love!

It's inaccurate, we need to spec into melee and throwing equally and the only really deadly weapon are the lances with low ammo.
Don't you dare complain about throwers!  :evil:

Throwing should never have been "balanced" around pure throwers.  It should be balanced for every melee person to be able to bring some throwing weapons into the battle.   A hit from a throwing weapon should be equivalent damage (or less) than a typical hit from a melee weapon.  And it shouldn't be possible to carry 12 throwing spears at one time, that is ridiculous.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Jona on February 15, 2016, 07:00:37 pm
Throwing should never have been "balanced" around pure throwers.  It should be balanced for every melee person to be able to bring some throwing weapons into the battle.   A hit from a throwing weapon should be equivalent damage (or less) than a typical hit from a melee weapon.

I wish this were the case. I can take a 0 PT 0 requirement throwing lance to my bare head with 0 IF and live (most of the time).
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on February 15, 2016, 07:40:46 pm
Why would you call someone bad player since you haven't played the game for over 1 year? Thats really arrogant. :mad:

truly, the worst player is the one that does not play.

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Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Úlfur on February 16, 2016, 11:44:33 am
All your prayers have been heard with the new Viking shield.
Let's complain about cav my old friends or agiwhores instead. huehuehue
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: BlindGuy on February 16, 2016, 02:33:37 pm
Is too many archers and crossbowmen and throwers. Please think happy friendly internet person, are you having skills? Dont be a gay.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 16, 2016, 03:02:12 pm
Is too many archers and crossbowmen and throwers. Please think happy friendly internet person, are you having skills? Dont be a gay.

Not sure what you were trying to say but im assuming you are implying ranged takes little skill. I think at this point ranged takes the most effort for the least outcome. Downing cav i guess rewards plenty though, but as far as shooting infantry, you have to be so on point with your shots to keep up with even mediocre infantry players as far as score and kills go.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Rebelyell on February 16, 2016, 03:39:21 pm
My tourney results prove im not, simple.

Make another Tourney 5v5 or 8v8, I can guarantee i will be in the final. Like every tourney I've been in.
I will remember that.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: BlueKnight on February 16, 2016, 09:20:41 pm
Not sure what you were trying to say but im assuming you are implying ranged takes little skill. I think at this point ranged takes the most effort for the least outcome. Downing cav i guess rewards plenty though, but as far as shooting infantry, you have to be so on point with your shots to keep up with even mediocre infantry players as far as score and kills go.
Yesterday we played archers a little bit and this is one of my fav results that we got

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Top 6 guys in our team were archers and they scored 12 kills while melees scored 3. Top enemy player was also an archer and way better than any of us noobs playing this. Support class gg
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 16, 2016, 10:56:59 pm


You still using that? Too hard to get new material? I thought i already said that that picture is 1 round (before autobalance even?) on quite an open map, probably against a bunch of shield nonbelievers. and you have 2 clans stacked vs a bunch of scattered randoms. Give me a pic of 60+ players prime time scoreboard where ranged is dominating melee, today some actually got close. 2 crossbowmen were like 2 & 3 in the end, but cav and melee were at the same amount of kills or more. Thats 2 crossbowmen just about keeping up with what 6-10 infantry does with ease.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: BlueKnight on February 16, 2016, 11:39:20 pm
You still using that? Too hard to get new material? I thought i already said that that picture is 1 round (before autobalance even?) on quite an open map, probably against a bunch of shield nonbelievers. and you have 2 clans stacked vs a bunch of scattered randoms. Give me a pic of 60+ players prime time scoreboard where ranged is dominating melee, today some actually got close. 2 crossbowmen were like 2 & 3 in the end, but cav and melee were at the same amount of kills or more. Thats 2 crossbowmen just about keeping up with what 6-10 infantry does with ease.
Why would I take more screenshots? I have one me being an archer scoring 149 points while the next guy in my team had 80, but there were like <40 players and I have scottish sword in a pic so you wouldn't even call me an archer. I only archer when I want to piss people off, like today when you tried to kill me, I pushed you away, came back for my bow and shot you. Or later the same map when I shot you in the back and you got finished off by melee and you even then you kept typing that it's not ranged that killed you but a melee. Here, have some screenshots of archers destroying fun of others.
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Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 17, 2016, 12:22:38 am
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So the 149 score screenshot you dont want to post based on what youre assuming i would believe (sounds fishy to me). Then you post about me getting shot and then dying, as if thats evidence of archery being op, it indirectly killed me once, as the only infantry left on the map surrounded by multiple others (or whatever the situation was, i want it to sound dramatic so just go with it) yeah im convinced, hit the big red destroy button, an archer managed to make someone die. And then the picture of the archer squad, proving nothing but a bunch of (friends) having fun as a different class in a video game, but apparently this one was more worthy of posting than the 149 points one that couldve actually added something that would actually add to the conversation.

Whats your website K/Ds as ranged in general? I wish there was some statistics on this.  K/D of course doesnt count for everything, but it is a good base. Personally when i played archer, i would barely hit 2kd, with the main bulk of kills being with my melee weapon. My winrate probably took a big dip aswell, unfortunately thats not displayed anywhere either. Good archers like Nebun (of the top of my head, he and another good archer actually did impact the game noticeably today) probably hits 2,5 or so, for a good archer that shouldnt be strange or nerf worthy.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: BlueKnight on February 17, 2016, 12:30:08 am
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Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 17, 2016, 12:36:13 am
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Okay, nice, is this recent? xp bar is gone for some reason.. Score is impressive, i assume a lot of horses died. As far as the kills go im looking at the enemy infantry, and theyre keeping up and out doing you. Impressive archer score i guess, but definitely nothing nerf worthy. Double the kills and it wouldve been bordering in on the very strong/op scale. But 10 kills, i dunno, just seems like the average good player score.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: BlueKnight on February 17, 2016, 12:44:19 am
Okay, nice, is this recent? xp bar is gone for some reason.. Score is impressive, i assume a lot of horses died. As far as the kills go im looking at the enemy infantry, and theyre keeping up and out doing you. Impressive archer score i guess, but definitely nothing nerf worthy. Double the kills and it wouldve been bordering in on the very strong/op scale. But 10 kills, i dunno, just seems like the average good player score.
Just a reminder that score is based on damage dealt, especially on archers because they don't benefit from proximity points nearly as much as melees. Low kills mean that I damage a lot of guys but rarely doing the killing blow just because I can offend many targets as a ranged. This is my stf
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 17, 2016, 12:56:42 am
Just a reminder that score is based on damage dealt, especially on archers because they don't benefit from proximity points nearly as much as melees. Low kills mean that I damage a lot of guys but rarely doing the killing blow just because I can offend many targets as a ranged. This is my stf

Thats why i mentioned you probably downed a lot of horses, if not then that a lot of hits.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on February 17, 2016, 04:06:54 am
+3 tatars or barbed arrows turn horses into point piñatas. With bodkins you are a greater credit to your team firing at any enemy that doesn't have a shield.
Title: Re: End this ranged malaria
Post by: bagge on February 17, 2016, 10:18:11 am
Omg archer topping the scoreboard one map calls for an instant NURF!!!