Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kuujis on January 25, 2015, 11:24:41 pm
It will be like in russia: everyone "has and uses rubles", but every proper exhange of significant amounts of money will be in euros or dollars, because alternatives just suck.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Wiltzu on January 25, 2015, 11:34:35 pm
Well I think it kinda depends on the other EU countries. If other EU countries choose to forgive the loan, or at least part of it, the Syriza will keep its support. However if the other EU countries choose not to forgive the loan, I think that Syriza will soon lose its support as it can't fulfill what it promised.
Here in Finland the government has stated that they will not be forgiving the loans. But you can never know what those apes decide... I think they'll postpone the decision on forgiving the loans as Finland is having its own elections in less than 3 months. I personally hope that the loan is not forgiven because, well us tax payers then have to pay it.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: LordBerenger on January 25, 2015, 11:40:23 pm
Panos is crying now i bet.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Leshma on January 26, 2015, 12:20:36 am
Communists killed his grandpa.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Latvian on January 26, 2015, 12:22:21 am
i have feeling panos voted for golden dawn
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Leshma on January 26, 2015, 12:24:30 am
I have a feeling Golden Dawn will be disbanded and many former members imprisoned, including Athenian Bear.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: lombardsoup on January 26, 2015, 12:24:48 am
Greece still bankrupt either way
gg
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: darmaster on January 26, 2015, 12:32:47 am
someone's hoping for a new καθεστώς τῶν Συνταγματαρχών
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: lombardsoup on January 26, 2015, 12:37:11 am
someone's hoping for a new καθεστώς τῶν Συνταγματαρχών
Its still 1974?
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Algarn on January 26, 2015, 01:41:20 am
Either Syriza manages to get Greece in a better state after a few months, or it fails. Considering the first case, the "movement" will probably expand to countries that know austerity (Spain, France, and the likes ...), and coalitions will be formed to reach the head of state, and do the same thing, thanks to the spark from Syriza. If Syriza fails ... well, nothing will happen mostly. I find the first way interesting actually, I truly hope they change Greece, and Europe at some extent.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Casimir on January 26, 2015, 01:48:17 am
who gives a sheet, greeks were never gunna pay back their debt, poor bastards already sold their last goat.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: darmaster on January 26, 2015, 01:53:20 am
Either Syriza manages to get Greece in a better state after a few months, or it fails. Considering the first case, the "movement" will probably expand to countries that know austerity (Spain, France, and the likes ...), and coalitions will be formed to reach the head of state, and do the same thing, thanks to the spark from Syriza. If Syriza fails ... well, nothing will happen mostly. I find the first way interesting actually, I truly hope they change Greece, and Europe at some extent.
Will be interesting to see how Syriza plans to pay off the debt while still keeping a myriad of social services active. Thinking cuts will be made anyway, irrespective of any populist promises.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Algarn on January 26, 2015, 01:59:21 am
who gives a sheet, greeks were never gunna pay back their debt, poor bastards already sold their last goat.
I give a shit, even if I'm alone here, I think french left parties should unite like Syriza, just to stop the austerity bullshit going on : France, one of the first members of Europe, once a massive weight into its organisation, now a simple country, with large PIB, but high unemployment rate, corrupted and inefficient politicians at power, rising national front, gap between rich and poors increasing, etc... I see all reasons to hope for changes, since I doubt the situation can improve with the current policy.
To Lombard, that's one of the biggest questions I also got about Syriza's program, but think about that : if you gain a little more money in France/greece/spain, it goes to the debt. If you remove the debt, or at least, decrease its influence, what do people do with the money ? They buy. I think you know that buying stuff creates jobs, I won't make the offense to explain it.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on January 26, 2015, 09:29:30 am
I'd like to hear Panos on this. Honestly, I do. No trolling or calling out, just honestly wondering what he makes of all of this.
320.000.000.000€ debts according to German news. That's a ton of money. I don't believe that Syriza can make good on their promises. It's gonna take several decades to get off that, even with a loan cut. Even with those 24.000.000.000€ reparation from WW2... it doesn't make a change really. Dunno if there is anything left to save when looking at those numbers. The consequences? I do not know.
And no Algarn, you can't generally say that more shoppers create more jobs. You need people to buy stuff that is made in your country and a lot of countries fail at exactly that. If they just buy the China stuff, you'll get a few more truck drivers (mostly from East Europe anyway) to drive the China containers around, a few more jobs in sales and that's it really. I know nothing about French industry, so I can't really say if your country produces the relevant things.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Tovi on January 26, 2015, 09:40:40 am
Good time for greeks, bad time for the banksters.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on January 26, 2015, 09:59:07 am
Unless they completely second-guess on basically all their promises, the only thing Siriza can manage to do is increase the debt. At this point, growth inside Greece is irrelevant, the state is losing money solely due to interest. At least the CBE is maybe going to buy Greek debt, which would make the control of that debt more European. Forgetting the debt on the other hand, that's not going to happen, especially with lunatics in power.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Moncho on January 26, 2015, 10:24:06 am
Thing is, both for Greece and Spain, probably also for others, the debt as is cannot be paid back. All the earnings of these last few years have gone directly to pay the interests of the debt (barely returning any borrowed money). In Spain the debt is about to reach 100% of the PIB. Thus the only two paths that I am aware of that have a small chance of maybe possibly allowing them to return something at all are either a renegotiation of the debt (cutting, changing interest, repayment period, etc), or going outside the Euro and using massive depreciation of their currency to try to do so. The point is not so that they can return less (although that is a necessary part), it is making it so that they can be returned at all. In their current status, they cannot. The Spanish government even changed the constitution so that the absolute priority for where income of the State goes to is repaying the debt. This leaves already next to no money to do anything else. I don't know how the situation in Greece is, but I expect it to be along the same lines. So no, I am not surprised that ΣΥΡΙΖΑ won, neither will I be surprised if Podemos (similar lines) does the same in Spain.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: LordBerenger on January 26, 2015, 11:56:06 am
Greece leaves EU and becomes best friends with uncle Putin and they both become best Orthodox Church friends and pretend Greece = Byzantine Empire again. And also debt free.
XNXNXNXNXNXNXN
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Christo on January 26, 2015, 12:14:24 pm
Greece leaves EU and becomes best friends with uncle Putin and they both become best Orthodox Church friends and pretend Greece = Byzantine Empire again. And also debt free.
XNXNXNXNXNXNXN
Meanwhile Erdotard wants new ottoman empire too, bam! You create ww3
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Bjord on January 26, 2015, 12:16:53 pm
Everything is going downhill lmao
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: LordBerenger on January 26, 2015, 12:37:41 pm
Meanwhile Erdotard wants new ottoman empire too, bam! You create ww3
And kurds rapes Ottoman Empire from behind with no lube and Armenians from North and Byzantine Empire from west and crusaders from Europe to fight ISIS takes a rest stop and invades Ottoman Empire by sea. GG
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Christo on January 26, 2015, 12:58:42 pm
BBC News - Syriza and Independent Greeks agree Greece coalition (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30981950)
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Algarn on January 26, 2015, 01:32:33 pm
Really, what the fuck.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Leshma on January 26, 2015, 02:05:53 pm
It's perfectly normal to see rise of communist parties in bankrupt countries. First, they serve as antidote to growing popularity of right wing parties in developed (historically chocolate chip cookie) countries. Second, most of the people who vote for them expect country to go back to communism and say fuck you to foreign influences and growing debt. USA killed one Chavez, many more to come :wink:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kirman on January 26, 2015, 02:10:30 pm
Meanwhile Erdotard wants new ottoman empire too, bam! You create ww3
I'm thinking the same way with Algarn. Instead of punching each other left parties should unite for one goal and create something new. Not old shitty politicians doing the same thing over and over again. That's the only way to get rid of Erdotard. I lost my hope few years ago but at least Erdotard will die when i'm old :lol:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: the real god emperor on January 26, 2015, 02:20:59 pm
Did Panos dieded after the election?
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Casimir on January 26, 2015, 02:22:04 pm
He's probably been out fighting everyone, Greece home of democracy.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: LordBerenger on January 26, 2015, 02:40:37 pm
He's assaulting innocent tourists like Golden Dawn were reported to do some year/s ago.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on January 26, 2015, 10:37:59 pm
It's perfectly normal to see rise of communist parties in bankrupt countries. First, they serve as antidote to growing popularity of right wing parties in developed (historically chocolate chip cookie) countries. Second, most of the people who vote for them expect country to go back to communism and say fuck you to foreign influences and growing debt.
Actually if you read "The capital in the XXI century by Picketty" *, you realise that most country (except those in Africa) are not gaining or losing more than 1% of their national revenue by owning other country buisness or debt. On the other hand, the most rich people of each country receive money from the whole population by owning the debt of the country, which makes every tax payer giving money to them.
Now my opinion about Syriza is even if they can't abolish the debt when they take power, there is still hope that more country have governement against austerity and thus can put enough pression on Germany to either wipe out the debt or creat some inflation. IMO without some inflation, Europe will eventually explode some day, people can't give their money to the most rich indefinitly.
There is already Matteo Renzy in Italy that is against austerity, and italy got some power in Europe, he just need a little support from other country.
*: I really advice you to read it, it's one of the most interesting book I ever read and not hard to understand.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: LordBerenger on January 26, 2015, 11:22:15 pm
Arent u a Canadick?
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Algarn on January 26, 2015, 11:35:53 pm
Oh, and Tsipras made his first error. Making a coalition with Panos Kammenos is one of the worst errors he could do : it's like having Melenchon and Le Pen on the same side in France, or Pegida's ex leader allied with a left party.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on January 27, 2015, 12:24:15 am
First, they serve as antidote to growing popularity of right wing parties in developed (historically chocolate chip cookie) countries.
Do you seriously believe that? The only differences between the "antidote" and those right wing parties is the xenophobia. Both want to "strengthen" their economy through some variation on mercantilism. It's not even all that surprising considering that's what all extremist parties have done at least since the end of the 19th century. The extreme left are very happy to demonize the extreme right at every occasion, but their ideologies are incredibly close nonetheless since both are mainly authoritarian. This is also why as soon as they become mainstream, voters switch from one to another very easily.
Oh, and Tsipras made his first error. Making a coalition with Panos Kammenos is one of the worst errors he could do : it's like having Melenchon and Le Pen on the same side in France, or Pegida's ex leader allied with a left party.
As I said, this is the most ideologically sensible alliance for these guys.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Leshma on January 27, 2015, 12:39:38 am
I've bought you one way ticket to the most beautiful place on this planet, tovarich Kafein. It's called Gulag, where we send our intelligent and educated comrades so they more efficiently develop their ideas while working. Mens sana in corpore sano.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Algarn on January 27, 2015, 12:40:05 am
I don't know if at this point being radical means being authoritarian. Now, it appears that in France, being Socialist (more like being a Socialist supporting the current government), is being at center, even at right. If people have to vote for communists (current communists=/=stalinists) to get social progress now, they'll end up voting for that. I don't think we can talk anymore about extreme left in France, except for a few cases like the more radical parties that score like 0.01% each time (related to stalinism), which is like the KKE in Greece.
Even I have to admit, that KKE guys are morons. How can one even believe that Stalin's policy was the best, you must be brainwashed to speak like that of a policy that consisted into murdering small owners and all political opponents.
This said about being radical, to come back on the question, it's not normal to make an alliance with people that are voting for xenophobia. Instead of having despise for the 1%, they have it on guys who barely have anything.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: the real god emperor on January 27, 2015, 11:13:22 am
"Abolishing the debt" is not communism , imo. Besides , communism is not a way to run away from the shit you stuck into, therefore Syriza is just some clown that deceives Greek people with pink dreams. I dont believe he will accomplish anything , I think the only correct solution to this crisis is EU to reduce the debt as much as they can . Getting out of the Euro Zone would only mess up things more than ever.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Vovka on January 27, 2015, 12:00:06 pm
The EU must now forgive debts or in Greece will appear Orthodox ballistic missiles visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Casimir on January 27, 2015, 12:09:36 pm
I await the next claim that greek peninsular has always been considered part of the Russian nation.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: LordBerenger on January 27, 2015, 12:39:54 pm
Greece, Bulgaria, Romania confirmed to join Russia in the new upcoming alliance known as the ''Orthodox Nations of Doom''
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: FleetFox on January 27, 2015, 12:45:18 pm
Just to clarify there is nothing radical about Syriza, its just because all other parties even centre left like Labour in UK are now right wing. Go back 30 years and they would just be a normal party with the same values and beliefs as all the other social democrats, don't feed off the neo-liberal capitlist beloney. Things can be different, we dont need to feed the top 1% to survive and have a working economy. Do as Brokar suggested and get reading Piketty's book, everyone should read that to understand the problems with such wealth inequality...
tldr: if you are a good historian you will know to place Syriza into a historical context then suddenly they are not so scary lol
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Vovka on January 27, 2015, 12:50:11 pm
Just to clarify there is nothing radical about Syriza, its just because all other parties even centre left like Labour in UK are now right wing. Go back 30 years and they would just be a normal party with the same values and beliefs as all the other social democrats, don't feed off the neo-liberal capitlist beloney. Things can be different, we dont need to feed the top 1% to survive and have a working economy. Do as Brokar suggested and get reading Piketty's book, everyone should read that to understand the problems with such wealth inequality...
tldr: if you are a good historian you will know to place Syriza into a historical context then suddenly they are not so scary lol
in the democracy countries you do not read the books, you wear balaclava and protect their rights
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Andswaru on January 27, 2015, 12:59:30 pm
Vovka, when this forum dies im going to miss your lovely russian stereotyping, always makes me laugh.
Vovka, when this forum dies im going to miss your lovely russian stereotyping, always makes me laugh. visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Getting out of the Euro Zone would only mess up things more than ever.
Debatable. Greece's economy will never be competitive as long as it is Eurozone. The question for Greeks is either stay in the Eurozone, and experience a decade (if not decades) of stagnation, or exit the Euro and suffer through several years of serious hardship, but eventually have an economy tied around a devalued currency that would be far more competitive in Europe.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Andswaru on January 27, 2015, 07:11:50 pm
Just to clarify there is nothing radical about Syriza, its just because all other parties even centre left like Labour in UK are now right wing. Go back 30 years and they would just be a normal party with the same values and beliefs as all the other social democrats, don't feed off the neo-liberal capitlist beloney. Things can be different, we dont need to feed the top 1% to survive and have a working economy. Do as Brokar suggested and get reading Piketty's book, everyone should read that to understand the problems with such wealth inequality...
tldr: if you are a good historian you will know to place Syriza into a historical context then suddenly they are not so scary lol
Inequality has been largely created by regulations aimed at increasing the control of the state over the economy which almost always end up not helping the majority. Hell is paved with good intentions. Add to that the pseudo-liberal privatization of services such as gaz, electricity and water. If you are a good historian you will know to place Syriza into the historical context of a ruined country under exterior financial pressure with a population increasingly resentful of that exterior pressure. It's not a detail that Greeks call what they are going through an "humiliation". If that doesn't sound oddly familiar to you, you are not a very good historian.
Debatable. Greece's economy will never be competitive as long as it is Eurozone. The question for Greeks is either stay in the Eurozone, and experience a decade (if not decades) of stagnation, or exit the Euro and suffer through several years of serious hardship, but eventually have an economy tied around a devalued currency that would be far more competitive in Europe.
1934 called, they said to enjoy your devaluated AIDS.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: lombardsoup on January 27, 2015, 10:20:34 pm
Debatable. Greece's economy will never be competitive as long as it is Eurozone. The question for Greeks is either stay in the Eurozone, and experience a decade (if not decades) of stagnation, or exit the Euro and suffer through several years of serious hardship, but eventually have an economy tied around a devalued currency that would be far more competitive in Europe.
There's no way Greece will be allowed to exit with debt this large.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Beauchamp on January 27, 2015, 10:25:41 pm
based on one year of my life i spent in athens and based on the fact that experience is not transferable (aka experience with communism), i'm afraid greeks will go on to live their communistic dream they so much want (and deserve) - hopefully and probably without being part of the eu.
i'll be happy to welcome them piss poor back in europe after a few decades of poverty and bloodshed. at that time i will give my grandsons some pocket money so they can buy themselves a few villas on crete.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Beauchamp on January 27, 2015, 10:28:07 pm
There's no way Greece will be allowed to exit with debt this large.
lol why, they just leave and call a bankrupt (something they should have done 5 years ago, unluckily they didn't do it so we all in eu had to pay for stupid french and german banks). fuck merkel, fuck french, fuck greeks...
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on January 27, 2015, 11:48:10 pm
Inequality has been largely created by regulations aimed at increasing the control of the state over the economy which almost always end up not helping the majority. Hell is paved with good intentions. Add to that the pseudo-liberal privatization of services such as gaz, electricity and water. If you are a good historian you will know to place Syriza into the historical context of a ruined country under exterior financial pressure with a population increasingly resentful of that exterior pressure. It's not a detail that Greeks call what they are going through an "humiliation". If that doesn't sound oddly familiar to you, you are not a very good historian.
I dont think progressiv imposition unless you're part of the 1% most rich has been made with the best intention (or maybe best intention for some pockets).
And about history repeating itself... when nothing you have been doing for the past year has been working, you have to try something different. But i don't think that just because you have the same starting conditions, you'll necessarily end up the exact same way.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Andswaru on January 28, 2015, 06:09:18 am
If you take the example of Argentina who defaulted 12 years, you see they recovered quickly inside 6 years they had re-reached their economic peak so to say, without a mountian of debt (i mean exchanging a 100 euro debt bond for a 25 euro debt bond is preety nice). I think if Greece had known what they know today 6 years ago they would of said fuck you and defaulted and at least tried to escape the mess they find themselves in today.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Vovka on January 28, 2015, 08:35:31 am
based on one year of my life i spent in athens and based on the fact that experience is not transferable (aka experience with communism), i'm afraid greeks will go on to live their communistic dream they so much want (and deserve) - hopefully and probably without being part of the eu. i'll be happy to welcome them piss poor back in europe after a few decades of poverty and bloodshed. at that time i will give my grandsons some pocket money so they can buy themselves a few villas on crete.
Perhaps soon in Greece will be the gas hub connecting Russia-Turkey-Greece-Europe, also in the case of a Greece exit from the European Union they may get support from their brothers Chinese Communists who need more and more food. And even if Germany do not care, America for sure is not interested in such a scenario )
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: FleetFox on January 28, 2015, 10:31:51 am
Too bad I couldn't find a picture of the event. If you say no you get claims on all Byz provinces. It's literally what you are saying.
Inequality has been largely created by regulations aimed at increasing the control of the state over the economy which almost always end up not helping the majority. Hell is paved with good intentions. Add to that the pseudo-liberal privatization of services such as gaz, electricity and water. If you are a good historian you will know to place Syriza into the historical context of a ruined country under exterior financial pressure with a population increasingly resentful of that exterior pressure. It's not a detail that Greeks call what they are going through an "humiliation". If that doesn't sound oddly familiar to you, you are not a very good historian.
1934 called, they said to enjoy your devaluated AIDS
Jeez Kafein enough with the put downs already... Back to your point you need regulation, if it wasn't for some regulation of the banks in 2007 we would have been fucked even more. Regulation is not the enemy, but it's pretty clear you are a neo-liberal yourself so that will never change, you've already bought in to the system with the media behind you. And lets be honest here, the reason inequality is on the rise, is because a) tax breaks for the rich because you know as we have seen trickle down economics really does work and the poorest 20% are doing so well off it (insert sarcasm). B) So much money is lost to states thanks to tax havens and their scumbag tax avoiding businesses etc. We are talking billions, I could get the actual figure if you want, its fucking big. All that money could be used to invest in public infrastructure where it needs to be.
Please don't start comparing this to what happened in Germany, if anything that's quite insulting for Tsipras and Syriza :(
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Panos_ on January 28, 2015, 03:12:02 pm
I'd like to hear Panos on this. Honestly, I do. No trolling or calling out, just honestly wondering what he makes of all of this.
First of all we need to clear out that Syriza is not a communist party, most of the elected senators come from PASOK, which was a center/left party.
Tsipras is a clown, he claims that he is a communist, and at the same time he wears Lacoste and Burberry :lol:
I`m indifferent towards them, I`m happy that Golden Dawn is the third political party, especially after all the jailing and other things that happened to them, I also think that the debt should be paid, but in humane conditions for the Greeks.
In general only time will tell, I cross my fingers and hope for the best.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Beauchamp on January 28, 2015, 04:03:36 pm
First of all we need to clear out that Syriza is not a communist party, most of the elected senators come from PASOK, which was a center/left party.
Tsipras is a clown, he claims that he is a communist, and at the same time he wears Lacoste and Burberry :lol:
I`m indifferent towards them, I`m happy that Golden Dawn is the third political party, especially after all the jailing and other things that happened to them, I also think that the debt should be paid, but in humane conditions for the Greeks.
In general only time will tell, I cross my fingers and hope for the best.
when looking at "allegiance" of greek parties one should note, that:
greek center = left parties in the west (if not straight commies) greek left = commies in the west greek commies = i just don't know what to write here
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: the real god emperor on January 28, 2015, 04:11:24 pm
when looking at "allegiance" of greek parties one should note, that:
greek center = left parties in the west (if not straight commies) greek left = commies in the west greek commies = i just don't know what to write here
Syriza party came from the greek communist party (KKE), they left from it at the early `90`s, when the KKE decided to rule with the right party New democracy.
Syriza is a radical left party :lol: , anarchocommunists with deep pockets :lol:
Fucking clowns...
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: [ptx] on January 28, 2015, 08:03:32 pm
Jeez Kafein enough with the put downs already... Back to your point you need regulation, if it wasn't for some regulation of the banks in 2007 we would have been fucked even more.
If it wasn't for an ill-conceived obligation for some American banks to give out risky loans for poor people to buy houses, the subprimes would not have happened at all.
Regulation is not the enemy, but it's pretty clear you are a neo-liberal yourself so that will never change, you've already bought in to the system with the media behind you.
Could you please read my arguments before robbing me of my opinion and intelligence?
And lets be honest here, the reason inequality is on the rise, is because a) tax breaks for the rich because you know as we have seen trickle down economics really does work and the poorest 20% are doing so well off it (insert sarcasm).
The rich flee taxation much more surely than the middle class and poors. While tax breaks for the rich are fundamentally wrong, it's a much better solution than forcing them to relocate out of your country, like France did. Here in Belgium rich people aren't as aggressively taxed (compared to the middle class anyway), so quite a few very rich people decided to move to Belgium. The real solution to this problem is a stronger European integration for fiscal legistlation and a much more coordinated offensive towards tax heavens. The combined pressure of the EU and US already crushed Switzerland on that matter, now we only need to destroy the rest of them.
B) So much money is lost to states thanks to tax havens and their scumbag tax avoiding businesses etc. We are talking billions, I could get the actual figure if you want, its fucking big. All that money could be used to invest in public infrastructure where it needs to be.
Well yeah, that's exactly where the problem is. See? Perhaps I'm not a "neo-liberal zombie"?
Please don't start comparing this to what happened in Germany, if anything that's quite insulting for Tsipras and Syriza :(
I'm sure they will threaten to suicide over all the hurt feelings. Still, there's not a lot of options for Greece. Either reform the economy around lower state expenses, default on the debt or go 3rd Reich apeshit.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: the real god emperor on January 29, 2015, 11:15:20 am
Debatable. Greece's economy will never be competitive as long as it is Eurozone. The question for Greeks is either stay in the Eurozone, and experience a decade (if not decades) of stagnation, or exit the Euro and suffer through several years of serious hardship, but eventually have an economy tied around a devalued currency that would be far more competitive in Europe.
Not quite sure if Greeks can stay patient even for 5 years , imo thats not quite possible if you look back to past 2 years(riots etc.). Afaik they were suffering from Erdoğanish leaders for a long time, so rioting is a good and easy option for them.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: FleetFox on January 29, 2015, 12:18:26 pm
If it wasn't for an ill-conceived obligation for some American banks to give out risky loans for poor people to buy houses, the subprimes would not have happened at all.
Could you please read my arguments before robbing me of my opinion and intelligence?
The rich flee taxation much more surely than the middle class and poors. While tax breaks for the rich are fundamentally wrong, it's a much better solution than forcing them to relocate out of your country, like France did. Here in Belgium rich people aren't as aggressively taxed (compared to the middle class anyway), so quite a few very rich people decided to move to Belgium. The real solution to this problem is a stronger European integration for fiscal legistlation and a much more coordinated offensive towards tax heavens. The combined pressure of the EU and US already crushed Switzerland on that matter, now we only need to destroy the rest of them.
Well yeah, that's exactly where the problem is. See? Perhaps I'm not a "neo-liberal zombie"?
I'm sure they will threaten to suicide over all the hurt feelings. Still, there's not a lot of options for Greece. Either reform the economy around lower state expenses, default on the debt or go 3rd Reich apeshit.
Ok, but I don't fully agree with the rich people moving away being such a bad thing (in many cases its positive because there will be less leeches as these guys who leave are the ones most likely to be tax avoiding anyway- black and white terms) . Because lets face it the only reason people leave for example Depardieu from France is because they are selfish and don't want to be paying their fair share back to society. They consciously or subconsciously forget that without the state they would never have got their money in the first place. For example apple getting all of its hardware technology from the US military for its Iphone (see Mariana Mazzucato http://marianamazzucato.com/the-entrepreneurial-state/)
And yep I agree with the tax haven comment, time to make a UN taskforce to confiscate all known tax dodgers with home addresses in Monaco, Cayman Islands, Bahamas etc :D and then put that money to pay off Greece's debts and some other nations so we can stimulate more confidence in the markets or whatever. Like I said plenty of money out there to fix a whole ton of issues such as unemployment. Just got to question the priorities of the powers that be ^^
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on January 29, 2015, 03:08:33 pm
Ok, but I don't fully agree with the rich people moving away being such a bad thing (in many cases its positive because there will be less leeches as these guys who leave are the ones most likely to be tax avoiding anyway- black and white terms) . Because lets face it the only reason people leave for example Depardieu from France is because they are selfish and don't want to be paying their fair share back to society.
Everybody is selfish, the rich people that stay probably less than the rest of humanity, considering they could move and keep more anyway. Do you know what is the percentage of Depardieu's annual income that would go to the French state? Especially in risky and sporadic businesses like culture (you can have one very good year then a lot of very bad years), the French tax system is extremely penalizing because it's difficult to smooth out a large surge in income. As a result you get a lot more money taken from you than most people earning as much as you do, just because they earn the same every month and you don't.
They consciously or subconsciously forget that without the state they would never have got their money in the first place.
And the state depends on tax. People like Depardieu pay huge amounts in taxes that would seem unfair if you had to pay the same fraction. Deciding what the part of the state in the economy has to be is a very complicated matter. Even things like education can be entirely private.
For example apple getting all of its hardware technology from the US military for its Iphone (see Mariana Mazzucato http://marianamazzucato.com/the-entrepreneurial-state/)
That's completely irrelevant, furthermore Apple didn't receive US military tech in a giftbox. It's a not a mystery that businesses don't necessarily like spending much in research and there are plenty of reasons for that. Research is one of the areas where the state can have a good effect and be effective at steering the economy a little bit. Of course all those things introduce more bureaucratic weight if done badly, and Belgium is notorious for having a terrible research investment program compared to say, the research tax breaks in the UK merely because the UK system is simple and effortless.
And yep I agree with the tax haven comment, time to make a UN taskforce to confiscate all known tax dodgers with home addresses in Monaco, Cayman Islands, Bahamas etc :D and then put that money to pay off Greece's debts and some other nations so we can stimulate more confidence in the markets or whatever.
That would be unfair and arbitrary. That money just needs to be identified and taxed accordingly. More importantly, international tax evasion schemes for businesses need to be dealt with, and you don't even have to go that far to find those.
Like I said plenty of money out there to fix a whole ton of issues such as unemployment. Just got to question the priorities of the powers that be ^^
Sure, it takes a lot of political courage to do the things that really matter. The problem is that the voters are quite ignorant as to what it is that should be done to fix their problems.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Andswaru on January 29, 2015, 03:35:04 pm
The rich flee taxation much more surely than the middle class and poors. While tax breaks for the rich are fundamentally wrong, it's a much better solution than forcing them to relocate out of your country, like France did. Here in Belgium rich people aren't as aggressively taxed (compared to the middle class anyway), so quite a few very rich people decided to move to Belgium. The real solution to this problem is a stronger European integration for fiscal legistlation and a much more coordinated offensive towards tax heavens. The combined pressure of the EU and US already crushed Switzerland on that matter, now we only need to destroy the rest of them.
The fun thing is that most of those country that had put Switzerland under pressure got its own tax heaven, and didn't decide anything about those. I don't know if they did it for a fiscal equality or to reduce competition and get more profit. I don't trust politicians from center parties to end tax heaven, they are too influenced by lobby to do anything imo.
About WW3, receipt tardogan decided to join too: "the 90-year-long commercial break of a 600-year-old empire is now over". http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/01/ataturk-erdogan-secularism-turkey-2015122105719549120.html He will now use muslim refugee of Greece to take it over and transform it into a califate!
No matter what you think of syriza that thing is fun: http://hugelol.com/lol/324152
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on January 29, 2015, 09:18:25 pm
I don't know if they did it for a fiscal equality or to reduce competition and get more profit. I don't trust politicians from center parties to end tax heaven, they are too influenced by lobby to do anything imo.
Countries go after tax evaders because well, that's a source of revenue. It's evident that tax evaders don't like that and try to corrupt officials to abandon their efforts, but at least when it comes to Switzerland that did not work.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Andswaru on January 30, 2015, 08:10:28 am
Luckily for the US of A the Swiss banking system was kinda down in the dumps at the time and couldnt handle the endless massive tax evasion fines that the Americians were threatening with (im also doubtful that the revenue raised via the use of foreign banking accounts would of actually covered the value of fines anyhow). The goverment couldnt let the countries national instituations go bankrupt so they had to fold.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on January 30, 2015, 12:11:59 pm
Do you even know what a tax heaven is? Switzerland had very strict bank secrecy, which was the main problem.
Countries go after tax evaders because well, that's a source of revenue. It's evident that tax evaders don't like that and try to corrupt officials to abandon their efforts, but at least when it comes to Switzerland that did not work.
What i meant, is that they didn't try to close virgin islands, seychelles, cayman islands, etc, which are all tax haven too. But the difference is that the profit of those goes to big countries (meaning part of g20) like USA, UK, France. So the their position on Switzerland (and malaysia, costa rica) are completly hypocrite.
Apart from the few (smth like 10% of the name given by swiss bank where actually condemned) who where actually caught by the fisc following the pressure on swiss bank, all the others tax evaders don't give a shit if the swiss system is closed, there are still so many others tax haven that are still open and that main parties from their respective countries are not planning to close.
The only difference the closing of tax haven of little countries made is bringing more tax evaders to those which are still open, but it didn't change anything from a tax evader pov.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Tovi on January 30, 2015, 12:43:09 pm
when looking at "allegiance" of greek parties one should note, that:
greek center = left parties in the west (if not straight commies) greek left = commies in the west greek commies = i just don't know what to write here
Greek commies thanks Russia for protecting orthodox population in Crimea. So... :?:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: the real god emperor on January 30, 2015, 12:57:47 pm
What i meant, is that they didn't try to close virgin islands, seychelles, cayman islands, etc, which are all tax haven too. But the difference is that the profit of those goes to big countries (meaning part of g20) like USA, UK, France. So the their position on Switzerland (and malaysia, costa rica) are completly hypocrite.
Apart from the few (smth like 10% of the name given by swiss bank where actually condemned) who where actually caught by the fisc following the pressure on swiss bank, all the others tax evaders don't give a shit if the swiss system is closed, there are still so many others tax haven that are still open and that main parties from their respective countries are not planning to close.
The only difference the closing of tax haven of little countries made is bringing more tax evaders to those which are still open, but it didn't change anything from a tax evader pov.
While indeed tax evaders can still move, believe it or not it was still easier and safer for European people to move their money to Switzerland than to the Caymans or other offshore tax heavens. Besides, regardless of intentions you need to start somewhere, and it would be asinine to talk about intentions in such a politically-driven matter anyway.
While indeed tax evaders can still move, believe it or not it was still easier and safer for European people to move their money to Switzerland than to the Caymans or other offshore tax heavens. Besides, regardless of intentions you need to start somewhere, and it would be asinine to talk about intentions in such a politically-driven matter anyway.
easier and safer for small tax payer, like rich-common people, but it doesnt change anything for the big tax payer that really matter and multinationals.
But I hope that you're right and that it was only a start as you say, time will tell...
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Panos_ on February 10, 2015, 08:16:54 am
Almost 3 weeks have passed from the elections, and it pains me to admit that I fucking regret not voting for Syriza and Tsipras, the guy is fucking awesome!
Going head to head with Fuhrer Merkel, while bigger and richer countries like France and Holland are bending over taking it up the arse, wow just fucking wow.
Seriously, I don`t know if Greece is gonna survive this and to be honest most Greeks don`t give a fuck about the EU anymore, we are glad that someone decided to stand up against the austerity measures that, that twat Merkel has forced on Europe.
P.S Laughing my ass off with the Murricans, who as soon as they realized that Greeks are friendly towards Russia, they started supporting us and not Merkel :lol:
Fuck sake, I`m eager to see what the future will bring!
P.S Laughing my ass off with the Murricans, who as soon as they realized that Greeks are friendly towards Russia, they started supporting us and not Merkel :lol:
I hope Greeks will not sell our friendship for hamburgers
:P
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Panos_ on February 10, 2015, 08:52:56 am
Greeks were always friendly towards Russia, but the thing is that our previous government was controlled from Merkel who is negative towards Putin, thus giving the idea that Greek dont like the Russians.
Russia is the only matter that communists and nationalists agree to :D
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on February 10, 2015, 10:28:25 am
...my belly hurts from laughter :lol:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Algarn on February 10, 2015, 12:29:32 pm
Same, I'm quite surprised tho. I hope France will do something to free themselves from Europe's austerity policies. But won't happen sadly.
Oh yeah, and also :
:lol:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Panos_ on February 10, 2015, 12:41:26 pm
Shut up you merkel fanboy, jump on the Tsipras wagon aswell and purify your soul :lol:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on February 10, 2015, 12:54:36 pm
It's not like I don't think Varangopolousisseus or w/e his name isn't a sympathetic dude. Hell, he's a biker...
...but I am not sure what they actually achieved until now. Except for big talking nothing real and countable came out of that talking. 3 more weeks and they are pressed into the standard politician form, molded into one of "them" and nothing changed.
Here in Germany, everyone is like "meh", shrugging their shoulders and wondering why exactly everyone made a fuzz about Syriza before the voting when now they're just the same old with a different vocabulary... :3 Guess time will tell.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Leshma on February 10, 2015, 01:46:44 pm
What's the deal with German bikers? Non violent, middle aged group of fatties living their childhood dreams or something? Always laugh my ass off when I see bikers from Germany.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: LordBerenger on February 10, 2015, 02:02:06 pm
Greeks were always friendly towards Russia, but the thing is that our previous government was controlled from Merkel who is negative towards Putin, thus giving the idea that Greek dont like the Russians.
Russia is the only matter that communists and nationalists agree to :D
Russians felt bad for Greekzantine Empire when they got raped by Kebabman Empire so they became BFFs
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: the real god emperor on February 10, 2015, 02:07:33 pm
What's the deal with German bikers? Non violent, middle aged group of fatties living their childhood dreams or something? Always laugh my ass off when I see bikers from Germany.
Maybe they just like riding motorbikes? :shock:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Leshma on February 10, 2015, 04:28:57 pm
Yeah, like bodybuilders go to the gym because they like lifting weights. You can buy 3 Harleys from the Greek money, but that doesn't mean you are badass like Jax from SoA.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on February 10, 2015, 05:05:02 pm
Is today a special day that you post out of your ass stuff that simply doesn't make sense?
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on February 16, 2015, 09:57:42 pm
or this: http://www.lerpesse.com/la-grece-demande-a-rejoindre-la-ligue-arabe "in prevision of being kicked out of EU, Greece asked to join the arab league" :lol:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Algarn on February 17, 2015, 12:06:06 am
This day was sad, until I read that :lol:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on February 17, 2015, 08:47:30 am
mmh... just imagine kissing those sexy lips of Merkel... mmh... RAWR!
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on February 18, 2015, 12:01:03 am
Honestly it would make so much more sense if reversed.
On topic, Siriza very predictably promised Greeks stuff they are now unable to obtain. Panos went one step too far right and ended up on the other side. Algarn derps about the glorious frog nation and the shackles of european oppression.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Algarn on February 18, 2015, 12:15:45 am
You summed it up, but being idealist about what the frog nation should be, and Europe more generally, isn't forbidden yet. Let me dream alone of an Europe being more social than now, I'm not an harmful mad man.
On paper, Europe seemed to be the best solution to have a decent European economy, while also keeping some equality and social progress on. But it ended up being what it is now : a bipolar European Union, divided by the economic crisis into North Europe and South Europe, the second being poorer than ever, which wasn't the case before the austerity policies. You can't deny that.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on February 18, 2015, 01:24:22 am
On topic, Siriza very predictably promised Greeks stuff they are now unable to obtain.
hahaha maybe a little too quick to judge, ofc they wont obtain all they want after 2 months.
Anyway, as someone from outside Europe (and that must vote from time to time if we want to enter it), Siriza gave me some faith in Europe (not enough to be entering yet tho).
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on February 19, 2015, 11:56:07 pm
You summed it up, but being idealist about what the frog nation should be, and Europe more generally, isn't forbidden yet. Let me dream alone of an Europe being more social than now, I'm not an harmful mad man.
You are entitled to your own misinformed opinion. That doesn't mean it's not harmful. There's a difference between the validity of a goal and the validity of the strategy applied to reach it. In democracy it is extremely easy to find goals. Anybody on the streets can tell you about things that don't work right. Few of them however are even capable of conceiving a scheme to fix things. It's very good to dream about equality, it is however very bad to enforce it, see 20th century for details. Ideology is the cancer of the mind. Refusing to acknowledge the complexity of economics is so easy when you can blame the bankers instead.
But it ended up being what it is now : a bipolar European Union, divided by the economic crisis into North Europe and South Europe, the second being poorer than ever, which wasn't the case before the austerity policies. You can't deny that.
Actually I can. The countries currently in deep shit were ruined by decades of populism. Now it's time to pay the bills and all Greeks are more or less responsible. Harsh but true, that's just how democracy works, you can't blame the King. Is paying everything back really the solution? Perhaps not. Argentina defaulted several times but now of course they can't get loans anymore.
Anyway, as someone from outside Europe (and that must vote from time to time if we want to enter it), Siriza gave me some faith in Europe (not enough to be entering yet tho).
Have faith, people can transition from apathy to desperation.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Algarn on February 20, 2015, 12:17:19 am
Basically, in european union, we share the money mostly, but not the debts, or anything like that. Enforcing equality is actually not that much of a good thing (studied totalitarisms, USRR was one of them obviously), but having more wealth redistribution seems more legit to me than the current system (1% of people owning more than 99% remaining is just wrong to me). Creating a federal Europe, with an unique debt, more wealth redistribution, clear foreign policies, etc... and more generally making interests go into the same direction would maybe not solve every problem, but would help at least. If any state/country like France had as much power as Latvia for example into a new voting system, wouldn't it be favorable to the majority ? Making a real union to be independant more or less from other powers in the world (China, USA) instead of eating each others into interests conflicts (people don't want to pay for other countries, but they would probably pay for their country if they had their hope in it tho) should be pretty much more suitable to place the Union into a position of general wealth an social equality. Unfortunately, it can't happen, people are too reticent about making this kind of stuff, since they fear to lose their "national sovereignty".
I don't even want to know how gramatically bad was this little wall of text, but only the content matters I believe.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Casimir on February 20, 2015, 01:28:30 am
Nationalism will have to give way when the cold reality comes in that most European nations are, in the grand scheme of things, very small and have very little to offer the world on their own.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: IR_Kuoin on February 23, 2015, 12:15:46 am
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on February 23, 2015, 06:21:26 pm
Nationalism will have to give way when the cold reality comes in that most European nations are, in the grand scheme of things, very small and have very little to offer the world on their own.
European integration isn't the last step, but I suppose the rest of it is not going to happen during my lifetime. One marketplace and one pool of resources can only collapse or end up with one centralized management. Any other outcome would require unworldly discipline, peacefulness and altruism.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Panos_ on February 25, 2015, 02:56:38 pm
Honestly it would make so much more sense if reversed.
On topic, Siriza very predictably promised Greeks stuff they are now unable to obtain. Panos went one step too far right and ended up on the other side. Algarn derps about the glorious frog nation and the shackles of european oppression.
Apparently you didnt realize I was being ironic, sorry to read that.
But in all honesty deep inside all Greeks that voted for syriza knew that most things were impossible to achieve, not because Syriza lacked the will to do them, but because of the austerity measures that Merkel has enforced all over Europe, but even so, they voted for Syriza because they needed the hope of change to make them through the day.
And to catch up with those who will say that I blame Germany or Merkel for what is going on in Greece, Ill tell them that the Greeks are 100% the ones to blame, it`s true, the previous generations did tax evade and did other things that really fucked our economy over, but what pains me the most is that most Europeans think that the Greeks are living a happy life with their money, which is the biggest lie probably ever said.
9000 suicides since 2009, because of the economical crisis, do I need to say more?
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Casimir on February 25, 2015, 03:35:54 pm
Suicide rates are up across the whole of Europe, especially here in Wales. Greeks seem to have victimised themselves and seem to make out like they're being unfairly targeted or singled out, which I simply believe is untrue.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Panos_ on February 25, 2015, 03:39:13 pm
Suicide rates are up across the whole of Europe, especially here in Wales. Greeks seem to have victimised themselves and seem to make out like they're being unfairly targeted or singled out, which I simply believe is untrue.
Who cares about Wales :twisted: :lol:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Leshma on February 25, 2015, 03:40:45 pm
but what pains me the most is that most Europeans think that the Greeks are living a happy life with their money, which is the biggest lie probably ever said.
Is that a projection? Sounds so much like something you would say if you were German. Imagine German Panos saying: "All those Greeks are stealing my country's money!!!".
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on February 25, 2015, 04:43:49 pm
I can comfortably state that most Germans do not think so. Well, not any more that is. At the beginning when the "Greece issue" came up and news reported the unbelievable amount of money send there, there was a shit ton of populism (on the look back it turned out to be that) everywhere. Newspapers of the category "Daily Mail" reported about singled out Greeks, never been to work in some Ministry, but cashing in monthly payments for the last 20 years cuz the cousin is one of the higher ups and stuff like that.
By now, there have been several TV documentations about the desolate state the common people in Greece are in. So, no, most Germans pity Greece for their situation and Syriza has quite some sympathies here too. Our left parties are even hoping to gain more votes out of the Syriza success and their "coolness".
What a lot of people don't know and most likely don't care to find out is that Germany isn't the rich wonderland for the common folks either any more. We do have quite a bunch of unemployment, regionally even up to 15-20%, number of homeless people raising constantly, old people barely having 800€ per month to live of, lots of people working up to 3-4 small jobs with 400€ each at once, streets with huge holes which aren't repaired, schools moving from buildings into container cuz the buildings are contaminated and so on...
It's like everywhere except Scandinavia: rich become richer, middle class disappears, poorer become poorer. My parents lived and worked in the Golden Age. My generation is fucked too. Compared to Greece, still better no doubt, not saying otherwise. But honey and milk left Germany some years ago, we're back to bread and water too.
Merkel isn't just "saving" in Europe - that bitch is saving in Germany too. Whole infrastructure breaking down but Schäuble presents proudly the "black zero": no new debts this year! Yay! While rain is dripping through the windows onto my desk in Uni... :|
Maybe this explains a little why Germans complain when another few billions go towards Greece while their kids don't get lessons in school cuz another teacher got fired due to "no moneyz".
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Casimir on February 25, 2015, 04:46:21 pm
Merkel isn't just "saving" in Europe - that bitch is saving in Germany too. Whole infrastructure breaking down but Schäuble presents proudly the "black zero": no new debts this year! Yay! While rain is dripping through the windows onto my desk in Uni... :|
Yeah, fuck Schäuble for not spending more than comes in.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on February 26, 2015, 12:15:09 am
Yeah, fuck Schäuble for not spending more than comes in.
Should have mentioned that they spend billions on bullshit projects nobody needs instead, huh? Guess I simply assumed that's what politicians do in every country on this planet. Maybe at your place they don't and I do have to mention that explicitly...
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on February 26, 2015, 12:19:02 am
When there's an economic problem in the Netherlands they lose their shit, go up the Tames, fix the problem then come back.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Panos_ on February 26, 2015, 05:39:13 pm
Should have mentioned that they spend billions on bullshit projects nobody needs instead, huh? Guess I simply assumed that's what politicians do in every country on this planet. Maybe at your place they don't and I do have to mention that explicitly...
Here in Greece our mighty politician buy sub marines from the germans that bend :lol:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on February 26, 2015, 06:06:49 pm
Here they build airports they can't finish and went like 300% over budget and still not done. They build a train station underground which experts say is pointless. They build some opera house in Hamburg which by now has to have 250 sold out events over the whole year for 30 years to get they money back in... and they aren't done building yet. and so on... and so on... and so on...
What's paying proper pensions to the elderly who worked for 40 years and build the country from the ground in comparison, right?
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Christo on February 26, 2015, 06:08:02 pm
communist detected
(click to show/hide)
:mrgreen:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Leshma on February 26, 2015, 06:19:33 pm
What's paying proper pensions to the elderly who worked for 40 years and build the country from the ground in comparison, right?
Pensions are quite the hot issue. And issue on its own. Greatest trick NWO bankers (as Tovi calls them) have up their sleeve is to credit a poor country with fiat money and take pensions people earned ages ago in return. It is happening pretty much everywhere and that is how rich get richer.
For example, my mother worked for almost 20 years in Yugoslavia, where average pay was more than three times of what is now. Now country that takes care of half of her pension is Bosnian Federation. She gets 53 KM (some imaginary money they use in Bosnia) which is around 27 euros. Other half she's getting from Serbia and is around 120 euros. She should be getting at least 300 euros as full pension.
That is robbery and it's happening on a grand scale. Also robbery is what Americans do, paying for valuable non-replenishable resources such as oil (which isn't just fuel, it is used everywhere in industry) with their worthless dollar they print whenever they feel like it and don't give a flying fuck about debt that is piling. Because they can.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 26, 2015, 10:11:14 pm
Pensions are quite the hot issue. And issue on its own. Greatest trick NWO bankers (as Tovi calls them) have up their sleeve is to credit a poor country with fiat money and take pensions people earned ages ago in return. It is happening pretty much everywhere and that is how rich get richer.
For example, my mother worked for almost 20 years in Yugoslavia, where average pay was more than three times of what is now. Now country that takes care of half of her pension is Bosnian Federation. She gets 53 KM (some imaginary money they use in Bosnia) which is around 27 euros. Other half she's getting from Serbia and is around 120 euros. She should be getting at least 300 euros as full pension.
That is robbery and it's happening on a grand scale. Also robbery is what Americans do, paying for valuable non-replenishable resources such as oil (which isn't just fuel, it is used everywhere in industry) with their worthless dollar they print whenever they feel like it and don't give a flying fuck about debt that is piling. Because they can.
Spoken like someone who doesn't live in the US. As a country, America knows it's broke and debted, but we just can't convince ourselves to cut anything, except for pensions.
Also, for pensions, Government shouldnt(and never should have) promised and covered retirement years. It's the dumbest and most cost uneffective thing a governement can do. Instead, they should do something like an investement fund account that you control and you manage with some government assurances(like what we have with banks and the 250k max guaranteed you can keep if a bank collapses)
But, people do not wish to be responsible for themselves, thus we always comeback to the problem: Letting people who never see the money being spent, spend it.
Also probably why shit goes over budget so much in countries(case in point: Molly's example). Government is Inefficient, everyone knows it, yet, we all rely on it. Ironic, no?
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Beauchamp on February 26, 2015, 10:51:42 pm
when i get older, i will buy a small farmhouse, 2 pigs and a shotgun.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Teeth on February 26, 2015, 10:58:49 pm
I never get all the hype about US debt, sure they owe 17 trillion to various debtors, but they hold like 13 trillion of debt from others as well. Not an expert on international finance, but how is a net international investment position of -30% of GDP an issue? Italy, New Zealand, Australia and like 25 other countries have worse than that. Especially considering the ridiculously low interest rates the US can get, they probably make a few hundred billion from the interest they receive relative to the interest they pay.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Christo on February 27, 2015, 01:08:49 am
usa is word police and evel
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Beauchamp on February 27, 2015, 02:11:11 am
I never get all the hype about US debt, sure they owe 17 trillion to various debtors, but they hold like 13 trillion of debt from others as well. Not an expert on international finance, but how is a net international investment position of -30% of GDP an issue? Italy, New Zealand, Australia and like 25 other countries have worse than that. Especially considering the ridiculously low interest rates the US can get, they probably make a few hundred billion from the interest they receive relative to the interest they pay.
US dont have to worry about their debt to much, they just print the money that can pay it off, problems have those that borrowed money to US, because their loans get devalued by this, but since they don't have like 20 aircraft carriers they can do shit. But eventually it will all end up in dollar inflation spiral and half of american's won't be able to buy anything to eat. At that time it will be good to be a redneck. And its only one of many problems "we all will have to solve" - I think our generation will face huge problems that will result in such atrocities we can't even imagine.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on February 27, 2015, 09:04:18 am
Kinda weird how every topic seems to end up discussing MURRICA...
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Panos_ on February 27, 2015, 10:27:55 am
Here they build airports they can't finish and went like 300% over budget and still not done. They build a train station underground which experts say is pointless. They build some opera house in Hamburg which by now has to have 250 sold out events over the whole year for 30 years to get they money back in... and they aren't done building yet. and so on... and so on... and so on...
What's paying proper pensions to the elderly who worked for 40 years and build the country from the ground in comparison, right?
If it was up to me, I would starve to death all the Greek pensioners, motherfuckers are the only reason that Greece has become the shithole it is today, mass tax evading, our farmers were sending false numbers to the EU to get fundings for their farms, most of them were selling their votes to the 2 most corrupted political parties of Europe for the last 45 years, and I could really go on and on and on.
Did you know that one year, Greece had more orange farms than Spain :lol:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on February 27, 2015, 10:39:25 am
:lol:
Well, pensioners here actually paid 40 yrs of 40 yrs taxes and still get barely enough to survive. It bothers me but nothing anyone can do about it as long as most fucktards keep voting Mutti Merkel into office.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Panos_ on February 27, 2015, 10:43:12 am
Well, pensioners here actually paid 40 yrs of 40 yrs taxes and still get barely enough to survive. It bothers me but nothing anyone can do about it as long as most fucktards keep voting Mutti Merkel into office.
care to trade pensioners? :lol:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on February 27, 2015, 05:42:54 pm
So what is up with your reknown/infamy? Its a different number everytime page is refreshed.
You've answered your own question. True reason is unknown, but my guess is that certain developer/webmaster of this site and forum thinks that I'm mentally unstable and that my online presence on this forum should reflect that.
Yeah, fuck Schäuble for not spending more than comes in.
The fucking streets are breaking down and are in dire need of a proper fixing budget. They just want the zero for election campaigning, leaving the rotting infrastructur for the following generations to clean up. I call that latent greeking, although it is still several magnitudes away from what a true Greek is capable of.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Swaggart on February 28, 2015, 04:25:12 pm
Nothing better in democracy than election years. The time when good governing decisions fly out the window so that pandering to the average uninformed voter can instead take place.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Corwin on March 18, 2015, 02:33:49 pm
The fucking streets are breaking down and are in dire need of a proper fixing budget. They just want the zero for election campaigning, leaving the rotting infrastructur for the following generations to clean up. I call that latent greeking, although it is still several magnitudes away from what a true Greek is capable of.
I am truly looking forward to reading German comments once rest of Balkan countries join EU. Because Greeks are for us what Germans are for Greeks. And we are only couple years away from joining.
And then we will all be supported by Germans and be happy :mrgreen:
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on March 18, 2015, 08:33:30 pm
They invented that shit, they know what their doing... :lol:
Now that this thread has been bumped again, I have to say that this is uninformed at best. The people currently living in Greece have very little in common with ancient Greeks.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on March 19, 2015, 08:58:37 am
Has someone been in here and deleting posts? I could swear I posted something right after Corwin and now it's gone...
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Corwin on March 19, 2015, 04:29:39 pm
What was that shit in front of ECB yesterday? You honest Germans doing some Ukrainian stuff?
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on March 19, 2015, 04:58:31 pm
Not really, like half of those people weren't German but came from all over Europe (or so they said). At least the Black Block dudes...
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Corwin on March 19, 2015, 09:39:44 pm
Now that this thread has been bumped again, I have to say that this is uninformed at best. The people currently living in Greece have very little in common with ancient Greeks.
Just as every other nation in the world in relation with their previous nations?
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on March 20, 2015, 12:30:36 am
Just as every other nation in the world in relation with their previous nations?
Not quite. First off, most of those changes happened way before the idea of nation even existed. That said, compared to Italy for example, Greece has been on the path of many waves of invasions since ancient times.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on March 20, 2015, 08:52:34 am
You should see them getting at it on the 1st of May in Berlin or Hamburg. Nothing out of the ordinary really - traditions...
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Leshma on March 20, 2015, 04:29:35 pm
Will you riot when, in year or so, your monthly salaries go down 20% and all the tech you are used buying goes up 20% or more?
All thanks to Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland and EU politics. When USA needs money they turn on printing machine but dollar seems unaffected. When EU needs money and decide to print some of it, everything goes to shit. You may laugh at ruble right now, but maybe same scenario is awaiting euro.
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Kafein on March 20, 2015, 10:22:32 pm
Will you riot when, in year or so, your monthly salaries go down 20% and all the tech you are used buying goes up 20% or more?
All thanks to Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland and EU politics. When USA needs money they turn on printing machine but dollar seems unaffected. When EU needs money and decide to print some of it, everything goes to shit. You may laugh at ruble right now, but maybe same scenario is awaiting euro.
Ah, remember when the Kingdom of France used to guarantee gold and silver value for their bills? Those were the days. The UK made it through the three last centuries without ever defaulting so it's technically possible. Although you have to consider that they still had some nice inflation going, second half of the 20th. The dollar "seems" unaffected because the printing machines are not printing quite as fast as to have an effect on the ridiculous amounts of dollars in circulation in the world. The US debt is tiny compared to that.
Regardless, we have to stop derping around with fake money. BUY LE REDDIT MAGIC INTERNET MONEY !!!11!1!!!
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: krrhmXPRNC on March 26, 2015, 05:09:38 pm
https://youtu.be/Vx-1LQu6mAE
Title: Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
Post by: Molly on March 26, 2015, 05:41:48 pm