Author Topic: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ  (Read 8021 times)

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Offline Beauchamp

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2015, 04:03:36 pm »
+1
First of all we need to clear out that Syriza is not a communist party, most of the elected senators come from PASOK, which was a center/left party.

Tsipras is a clown, he claims that he is a communist, and at the same time he wears Lacoste and Burberry  :lol:


I`m indifferent towards them, I`m happy that Golden Dawn is the third political party, especially after all the jailing and other things that happened to them, I also think that the debt should be paid, but in humane conditions for the Greeks.

In general only time will tell, I cross my fingers and hope for the best.

when looking at "allegiance" of greek parties one should note, that:

greek center = left parties in the west (if not straight commies)
greek left = commies in the west
greek commies = i just don't know what to write here
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Offline the real god emperor

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2015, 04:11:24 pm »
0
greek commies = i just don't know what to write here

they start eating shits of each other?

Offline Andswaru

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2015, 05:55:34 pm »
+1
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6e5532c0-a310-11e4-ac1c-00144feab7de.html#axzz3Q8UPS0YX

Interesting Article for anyone who cares about the state of Greeces bank account.. it also contains a few wonderful gems of information.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 06:16:07 pm by Andswaru »
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Offline Panos_

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2015, 06:24:39 pm »
0
when looking at "allegiance" of greek parties one should note, that:

greek center = left parties in the west (if not straight commies)
greek left = commies in the west
greek commies = i just don't know what to write here


Syriza party came from the greek communist party (KKE), they left from it at the early `90`s, when the KKE decided to rule with the right party New democracy.


Syriza is a radical left party  :lol: , anarchocommunists with deep pockets  :lol:

Fucking clowns...
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2015, 08:03:32 pm »
+2
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6e5532c0-a310-11e4-ac1c-00144feab7de.html#axzz3Q8UPS0YX

Interesting Article for anyone who cares about the state of Greeces bank account.. it also contains a few wonderful gems of information.
Yeah, except it's only available to subscribers.

Offline Andswaru

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2015, 08:22:22 pm »
0
You can read 3 for free a month in exchange for your email address also (i.e. sign up).
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Offline Kafein

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2015, 10:36:54 am »
+1
Jeez Kafein enough with the put downs already... Back to your point you need regulation, if it wasn't for some regulation of the banks in 2007 we would have been fucked even more.

If it wasn't for an ill-conceived obligation for some American banks to give out risky loans for poor people to buy houses, the subprimes would not have happened at all.

Regulation is not the enemy, but it's pretty clear you are a neo-liberal yourself so that will never change, you've already bought in to the system with the media behind you.

Could you please read my arguments before robbing me of my opinion and intelligence?

And lets be honest here, the reason inequality is on the rise, is because a) tax breaks for the rich because you know as we have seen trickle down economics really does work and the poorest 20% are doing so well off it (insert sarcasm).

The rich flee taxation much more surely than the middle class and poors. While tax breaks for the rich are fundamentally wrong, it's a much better solution than forcing them to relocate out of your country, like France did. Here in Belgium rich people aren't as aggressively taxed (compared to the middle class anyway), so quite a few very rich people decided to move to Belgium. The real solution to this problem is a stronger European integration for fiscal legistlation and a much more coordinated offensive towards tax heavens. The combined pressure of the EU and US already crushed Switzerland on that matter, now we only need to destroy the rest of them.

B) So much money is lost to states thanks to tax havens and their scumbag tax avoiding businesses etc. We are talking billions, I could get the actual figure if you want, its fucking big. All that money could be used to invest in public infrastructure where it needs to be.

Well yeah, that's exactly where the problem is. See? Perhaps I'm not a "neo-liberal zombie"?

Please don't start comparing this to what happened in Germany, if anything that's quite insulting for Tsipras and Syriza  :(

I'm sure they will threaten to suicide over all the hurt feelings. Still, there's not a lot of options for Greece. Either reform the economy around lower state expenses, default on the debt or go 3rd Reich apeshit.

Offline the real god emperor

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2015, 11:15:20 am »
+1
Debatable. Greece's economy will never be competitive as long as it is Eurozone. The question for Greeks is either stay in the Eurozone, and experience a decade (if not decades) of stagnation, or exit the Euro and suffer through several years of serious hardship, but eventually have an economy tied around a devalued currency that would be far more competitive in Europe.

Not quite sure if Greeks can stay patient even for 5 years , imo thats not quite possible if you look back to past 2 years(riots etc.). Afaik they were suffering from Erdoğanish leaders for a long time, so rioting is a good and easy option for them.

Offline FleetFox

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2015, 12:18:26 pm »
0
If it wasn't for an ill-conceived obligation for some American banks to give out risky loans for poor people to buy houses, the subprimes would not have happened at all.

Could you please read my arguments before robbing me of my opinion and intelligence?

The rich flee taxation much more surely than the middle class and poors. While tax breaks for the rich are fundamentally wrong, it's a much better solution than forcing them to relocate out of your country, like France did. Here in Belgium rich people aren't as aggressively taxed (compared to the middle class anyway), so quite a few very rich people decided to move to Belgium. The real solution to this problem is a stronger European integration for fiscal legistlation and a much more coordinated offensive towards tax heavens. The combined pressure of the EU and US already crushed Switzerland on that matter, now we only need to destroy the rest of them.

Well yeah, that's exactly where the problem is. See? Perhaps I'm not a "neo-liberal zombie"?

I'm sure they will threaten to suicide over all the hurt feelings. Still, there's not a lot of options for Greece. Either reform the economy around lower state expenses, default on the debt or go 3rd Reich apeshit.

Ok, but I don't fully agree with the rich people moving away being such a bad thing (in many cases its positive because there will be less leeches as these guys who leave are the ones most likely to be tax avoiding anyway- black and white terms) . Because lets face it the only reason people leave for example Depardieu from France is because they are selfish and don't want to be paying their fair share back to society. They consciously or subconsciously forget that without the state they would never have got their money in the first place. For example apple getting all of its hardware technology from the US military for its Iphone (see Mariana Mazzucato http://marianamazzucato.com/the-entrepreneurial-state/)

And yep I agree with the tax haven comment, time to make a UN taskforce to confiscate all known tax dodgers with home addresses in Monaco, Cayman Islands, Bahamas etc :D and then put that money to pay off Greece's debts and some other nations so we can stimulate more confidence in the markets or whatever. Like I said plenty of money out there to fix a whole ton of issues such as unemployment. Just got to question the priorities of the powers that be ^^
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Offline Kafein

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2015, 03:08:33 pm »
0
Ok, but I don't fully agree with the rich people moving away being such a bad thing (in many cases its positive because there will be less leeches as these guys who leave are the ones most likely to be tax avoiding anyway- black and white terms) . Because lets face it the only reason people leave for example Depardieu from France is because they are selfish and don't want to be paying their fair share back to society.

Everybody is selfish, the rich people that stay probably less than the rest of humanity, considering they could move and keep more anyway. Do you know what is the percentage of Depardieu's annual income that would go to the French state? Especially in risky and sporadic businesses like culture (you can have one very good year then a lot of very bad years), the French tax system is extremely penalizing because it's difficult to smooth out a large surge in income. As a result you get a lot more money taken from you than most people earning as much as you do, just because they earn the same every month and you don't.

They consciously or subconsciously forget that without the state they would never have got their money in the first place.

And the state depends on tax. People like Depardieu pay huge amounts in taxes that would seem unfair if you had to pay the same fraction. Deciding what the part of the state in the economy has to be is a very complicated matter. Even things like education can be entirely private.

For example apple getting all of its hardware technology from the US military for its Iphone (see Mariana Mazzucato http://marianamazzucato.com/the-entrepreneurial-state/)

That's completely irrelevant, furthermore Apple didn't receive US military tech in a giftbox. It's a not a mystery that businesses don't necessarily like spending much in research and there are plenty of reasons for that. Research is one of the areas where the state can have a good effect and be effective at steering the economy a little bit. Of course all those things introduce more bureaucratic weight if done badly, and Belgium is notorious for having a terrible research investment program compared to say, the research tax breaks in the UK merely because the UK system is simple and effortless.

And yep I agree with the tax haven comment, time to make a UN taskforce to confiscate all known tax dodgers with home addresses in Monaco, Cayman Islands, Bahamas etc :D and then put that money to pay off Greece's debts and some other nations so we can stimulate more confidence in the markets or whatever.

That would be unfair and arbitrary. That money just needs to be identified and taxed accordingly. More importantly, international tax evasion schemes for businesses need to be dealt with, and you don't even have to go that far to find those.

Like I said plenty of money out there to fix a whole ton of issues such as unemployment. Just got to question the priorities of the powers that be ^^

Sure, it takes a lot of political courage to do the things that really matter. The problem is that the voters are quite ignorant as to what it is that should be done to fix their problems.

Offline Andswaru

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #70 on: January 29, 2015, 03:35:04 pm »
+1
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6e5532c0-a310-11e4-ac1c-00144feab7de.html#axzz3Q8UPS0YX

Interesting Article for anyone who cares about the state of Greeces bank account.. it also contains a few wonderful gems of information.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ecb-board-member-says-greece-must-repay-debt-restructuring-talks-possible-1422261074

Similar article on the WSJ, im not a member there so I guess anyone can read it.
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Offline ecorcheur_brokar

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2015, 05:11:40 pm »
+2
The rich flee taxation much more surely than the middle class and poors. While tax breaks for the rich are fundamentally wrong, it's a much better solution than forcing them to relocate out of your country, like France did. Here in Belgium rich people aren't as aggressively taxed (compared to the middle class anyway), so quite a few very rich people decided to move to Belgium. The real solution to this problem is a stronger European integration for fiscal legistlation and a much more coordinated offensive towards tax heavens. The combined pressure of the EU and US already crushed Switzerland on that matter, now we only need to destroy the rest of them.

The fun thing is that most of those country that had put Switzerland under pressure got its own tax heaven, and didn't decide anything about those. I don't know if they did it for a fiscal equality or to reduce competition and get more profit. I don't trust politicians from center parties to end tax heaven, they are too influenced by lobby to do anything imo.

About WW3, receipt tardogan decided to join too: "the 90-year-long commercial break of a 600-year-old empire is now over". http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/01/ataturk-erdogan-secularism-turkey-2015122105719549120.html
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No matter what you think of syriza that thing is fun: http://hugelol.com/lol/324152
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 05:15:45 pm by ecorcheur_brokar »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2015, 09:18:25 pm »
+1
The fun thing is that most of those country that had put Switzerland under pressure got its own tax heaven, and didn't decide anything about those.

Do you even know what a tax heaven is? Switzerland had very strict bank secrecy, which was the main problem.

I don't know if they did it for a fiscal equality or to reduce competition and get more profit. I don't trust politicians from center parties to end tax heaven, they are too influenced by lobby to do anything imo.

Countries go after tax evaders because well, that's a source of revenue. It's evident that tax evaders don't like that and try to corrupt officials to abandon their efforts, but at least when it comes to Switzerland that did not work.

Offline Andswaru

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #73 on: January 30, 2015, 08:10:28 am »
0
Luckily for the US of A the Swiss banking system was kinda down in the dumps at the time and couldnt handle the endless massive tax evasion fines that the Americians were threatening with (im also doubtful that the revenue raised via the use of foreign banking accounts would of actually covered the value of fines anyhow). The goverment couldnt let the countries national instituations go bankrupt so they had to fold.
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Offline ecorcheur_brokar

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Re: why so ΣΥΡΙΖΑ
« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2015, 12:11:59 pm »
0
Do you even know what a tax heaven is? Switzerland had very strict bank secrecy, which was the main problem.

Countries go after tax evaders because well, that's a source of revenue. It's evident that tax evaders don't like that and try to corrupt officials to abandon their efforts, but at least when it comes to Switzerland that did not work.

What i meant, is that they didn't try to close virgin islands, seychelles, cayman islands, etc, which are all tax haven too. But the difference is that the profit of those goes to big countries (meaning part of g20) like USA, UK, France. So the their position on Switzerland (and malaysia, costa rica) are completly hypocrite.

Apart from the few (smth like 10% of the name given by swiss bank where actually condemned) who where actually caught by the fisc following the pressure on swiss bank, all the others tax evaders don't give a shit if the swiss system is closed, there are still so many others tax haven that are still open and that main parties from their respective countries are not planning to close.

The only difference the closing of tax haven of little countries made is bringing more tax evaders to those which are still open, but it didn't change anything from a tax evader pov.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 12:27:31 pm by ecorcheur_brokar »
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