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Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 06:16:00 pm

Title: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 06:16:00 pm
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29783253 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29783253)

There was a protest last sunday and tuesday this week.

These pictures are from Tuesday. So many lights.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

I'm fucking done with this joke of a country. Wish I could just get the hell out of here before these imbeciles get us kicked out from EU or close borders. We are pretty much the laughingstock of europe.

=/
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: sF_Guardian on October 29, 2014, 06:20:34 pm
Read about the tax in the Newspaper and just bursted out in laugh :D
How stupid can mankind be? Hungaria setting new standards...
I mean cmon, online gaming will be shit expensive at a rate of 49ct/Gigabyte download.
And then imagine youtubers/streamers....
Its basically people who have no clue whatsoever about how the internet works trying to tax it.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Kalp on October 29, 2014, 06:21:54 pm
You just need to throw a shoe at Orban  :mrgreen:

http://youtu.be/_RFH7C3vkK4 (http://youtu.be/_RFH7C3vkK4)
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: sF_Guardian on October 29, 2014, 06:26:09 pm
You just need to throw a shoe at Orban  :mrgreen:

http://youtu.be/_RFH7C3vkK4 (http://youtu.be/_RFH7C3vkK4)

You better bring your Shynbaulds and hit him in the face man...
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 06:26:19 pm
Read about the tax in the Newspaper and just bursted out in laugh :D
How stupid can mankind be? Hungaria setting new standards...
I mean cmon, online gaming will be shit expensive at a rate of 49ct/Gigabyte download.
And then imagine youtubers/streamers....

Then, allow me to shed some light on the situation.

The national tax and customs bureau(NAV) has issued a replacement of all cash registers in Hungary.
These modern ones are all interconnected to their database.
Guess how?

Yep, online. That is going to put a serious toll on shops, and this is just one very small part of the picture.

There are estimates that many internet service providers will go bankrupt and cease to exist, they can only get about a 10% revenue from their current activities right now.

I'd also like to state that Hungary has the highest value added tax in the world. 27% on everything pretty much.

This tax goes on top of your subscription which is quite costly already because of that.

On some news, the next protest is scheduled on November 17. That will be the day when they vote about the tax.

Considering they have secured two thirds again and they are in control thanks to populist propaganda and rewriting the constitution so they cannot lose as hard as they normally would, there isn't much hope in reversing this in a democratical way.

Ofcourse they are saying that us citizens will be protected and the ISP-s can't force us to pay more, which is fucking ridiculous if you think about it for even a second.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: sF_Guardian on October 29, 2014, 06:29:50 pm
Well, I hope they won't let it pass, if there's even some kind of parliament needed to agree to that.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 06:35:24 pm
Well, I hope they won't let it pass, if there's even some kind of parliament needed to agree to that.

They are the parliament.

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Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: BlindGuy on October 29, 2014, 06:40:20 pm
Politicians: if we keep thinking that a democracy lead by completely untrained, unethical, self promoting, self serving, money grubbing, greedy mega egos is going to produce anything but negative results, politicians is what we get I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 06:42:59 pm
I also forgot to note that there were protests in 12 hungarian cities, in Britain, Poland, and the Netherlands.

Good to know people of europe are with us. There were also EU flags everywhere on these protests.

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This is not only about this tax only. It is about abuse of political power, endless corruption, the head of NAV got banned out of the USA for corruption charges for an example, and five more people also did.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: lombardsoup on October 29, 2014, 06:44:34 pm
Still not Hungary.  In fact, time for a diet.

Hopefully this doesn't set a precedent for the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: _schizo321437 on October 29, 2014, 06:48:23 pm
You better bring your Shynbaulds and hit him in the face man...

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Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: sF_Guardian on October 29, 2014, 08:14:25 pm
They are the parliament.

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Whoops, thought it was just a proposition by the president, must have misread something.
Holy fuck...
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Tibe on October 29, 2014, 08:36:57 pm
Wouldnt that kill all IT in the country? Pretty much bankrupt every buisness that deals with computers. How the hell does that provide more money?
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 08:45:58 pm
Wouldnt that kill all IT in the country? Pretty much bankrupt every buisness that deals with computers. How the hell does that provide more money?

You ask them, they know it better.

not
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: lombardsoup on October 29, 2014, 08:55:19 pm
Wouldnt that kill all IT in the country? Pretty much bankrupt every business that deals with computers. How the hell does that provide more money?

The best thing IT businesses in Hungary can do is take their taxable income elsewhere to countries that don't do this.  Pack up shop and set up elsewhere.  There's no reason to tolerate this dickmove by parliament.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Butan on October 29, 2014, 08:57:40 pm
A tax is a way to collect money, it can be set in boundaries so as to not be unilaterally applied without limits.

Being not completely uneducated, I think that they may have thought about the "every heavy internet connected business will go broke and youtube/steam will go down" if they simply ask a no-limit fixed sum of money for each transfered gigabytes, technical issues aside.
In the link the OP provided they precisely talk about a 700 forints (2.26€) monthly cap. I dont know whats 2.26€ for an Hungarian, but to me it doesnt look much of a tax raise except for the poorest of the poor. Whatever the sum asked, its something less for the people to spend on what they want, for that reason its normal that people are not happy about this, new tax never made anyone happy, except the state.


I read anti-democratic and authoritarian measure... What? A government which proposes a law about a tax, and put it to vote, is completely normal procedure. If you dont like it, you protest against it, and you dont vote for the people who proposed and wanted the law, even try a coup.
I'm old enough to have lived with limited access costy internet, and my country was not a tyranny. Today most advanced countries have "unlimited" bandwith internet package offers, but nothing says that it will stay that way forever, for technical reasons and for business plans reasons. Nothing is granted.

When you win elections in a democracy, you get to a position where you can propose stuff. Today Hungary actual dominant political party propose that a tax should be applied to internet. As a fellow heavy traffic internet user, I feel empathy for the Hungarians if it is applied by politicians that does not know exactly how internet and data transfer works and if it has a heavy impact on everyone concerned.
In the case it doesnt, and those in charge of the development of that law have one brain together, we can safely assume that this will be just one tax...
It concern a symbolic place of freedom, internet, and can be seen as backward innovation in comparison with the actual domination of unlimited internet access, but I do not think it has to become an ideological debate except if we reallllllyyyyyyy want it to become so, with the help of bad semantic, hype media and the old-new cold war trend of today.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Tibe on October 29, 2014, 09:11:07 pm
Butan has become quite a troll over these years. Spitting assburgers hidden in complex sentences. God im proud to be a part of this.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 09:21:01 pm
Except that if you use the internet as a company, or for a cash register, the tax is not 700 HUF.

It's 5000. For every damned subscription.

Also either Butan is trolling as you have said, or he really needs to get out of his cave and read up about the hungarian events of the recent.. well a year is enough.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Falka on October 29, 2014, 09:32:34 pm

Quote
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. And term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here...like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F--k Hope.' F--k Hope.

Someone elected these politicians.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 09:41:28 pm
One word : Populism
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: sF_Guardian on October 29, 2014, 09:50:07 pm
You know Butan, there are people out there working for their money. And with that I mean real work.
I wouldn't want to work 15 mins extra a month just for paying some dammn tax on top of the payment
for my ISP which already isn't too shabby here in Germany.
I know most people earn more meoney than me as I'm just a shitty plasterer doing it to earn some money
between school and studying but there are enough ppl out there getting the same or less payment than me.
A tax like this wouldn't totally ruin me ofc but I'd still prefer to buy 2 beers, a book every five months or
something like that instead of giving the money away for basically nothing.
And you know, Hungarians already have to pay way more taxes than I have to do (if Christo's statement about the 27% tax rate is right and other taxes aren't lower to balance that).
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Son Of Odin on October 29, 2014, 09:51:25 pm
Internet tax? That sounds like a suggestion of some dumbass committee and I'm sorry if it passed... Dayum! Though don't worry Christo there is a lot of things to laugh about in European Union.

Just recently there was a suggestion to install GPS tracking to every car in Finland. So they could tax people according to the time they used some specific road (if it's a busy road you pay more per km). So basically tax according to distance driven during the year. Except we already pay that usage tax... It's called gasoline tax. Then there's the big brother aspect of this kind of system. Even if the government doesn't really give a flying fuck about your goings there are people who are willing and capable of getting into that system. Are you fucking kidding me? Why build a system that screams abuse and hacker boner?

I hope I never hear about that suggestion again :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Falka on October 29, 2014, 09:52:06 pm
One word : Populism

That only means ppl are stupid if they swallow this bait and most of them get what they deserve.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 09:54:21 pm
That only means ppl are stupid if they swallow this bait and most of them get what they deserve.

I know. I also know the public is shit.

Just wanted to point out why.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: IR_Kuoin on October 29, 2014, 10:00:37 pm
Wow so many retarded 'leaders' in the world, sorry Christo :(
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: sF_Guardian on October 29, 2014, 10:06:37 pm
I wonder when I will have to pay a tax per m^3 air I'm breathing or per litres of piss I'm dumping into the toilet.
Lets just tax everything, such fun!
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Son Of Odin on October 29, 2014, 10:15:50 pm
I wonder when I will have to pay a tax per m^3 air I'm breathing or per litres of piss I'm dumping into the toilet.
Lets just tax everything, such fun!

It's especially fun to put extra taxes on something that someone else does either for fun or has to do in order to pay the bills and get food (don't mean income tax. Indirect taxes like paying extra for your car in order to get to the workplace etc etc.). First you ofc have to develop some irrational hate towards these people who are only doing something you don't like doing.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Leshma on October 29, 2014, 10:28:49 pm
Wow so many retarded 'leaders' in the world, sorry Christo :(

They aren't retarded, people who elect them are. Sadly, the gap between elite/leaders and the masses is growing. Former become more cunning, competent and ruthless, while the latter are regressing back into dark ages (there was an excuse for lack of education back then, right now it is nothing but pure ignorance on populi part).

Same thing happened in my (non EU country), but it is known shithole so no one cares. Biggest party has majority as well and can do whatever they want.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 10:33:29 pm
Eh, in Hungary we have a leading politician in FIDESZ who opposes investment in renewable energy, because according to him the country needs power when solar panels don't work in the dark, and there is no wind.

Psychopathic, yes. But completely retarded when it comes to modern technology.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Bjord on October 29, 2014, 10:38:45 pm
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29783253 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29783253)

There was a protest last sunday and tuesday this week.

These pictures are from Tuesday. So many lights.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

I'm fucking done with this joke of a country. Wish I could just get the hell out of here before these imbeciles get us kicked out from EU or close borders. We are pretty much the laughingstock of europe.

=/

Veled vagyok, testvér... :(

Irország ezerszell jobb mint Magyarország, de a Magyar kulturát még közel tartom szivemhez.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 10:40:05 pm
Magyar kulturát

Mit, a zsírt és az alkoholizmust?  :lol:
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Leshma on October 29, 2014, 10:41:00 pm
Or he has a deal with Putin involving gas trade ;)

Putin was here less than a month ago, this shitty country spent millions they don't have on some stupid military parade to appease his majesty. What actually happened of importance in month of October is gas becoming more expensive in two occasions, by 5% each time. But it's fine because every single controlled media reported how Putin said we are brothers and that gas will be cheaper for us and will always be in abundance. Reality is that we pay way more than any other country in the region, despite giving away national oil/gas company to Russians for pocket change. It was all part of South Stream project which was canceled due to situation in Ukraine. But that didn't stop major politician in Serbian part of Bosnia to advertise South Stream as main point in his party campaign even though in the news Bulgarians said how they won't have anything to do with Russia and that project South Stream is no more. Imagine stupidity of people who can't process simple information that is presented to them via same media pretty much at the same time...

Real tragic part is that gas is least of the worries. Thanks to summer floods, coal mining isn't working and there is major shortage of cheapest coal this country uses to provide electricity and heat houses. That level of incompetence is hard to achieve. At the same time Mr Prime Minister is denying that his own brother exists because his brothers company owes this country half billion euros...

Dunno what is with this part of Europe, but countries like Serbia/Hungary/Bulgaria/Romania/Turkey/Greece are for some reason cursed to have highly corrupt government most of the time.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 29, 2014, 10:47:08 pm
Dunno what is with this part of Europe, but country like Serbia/Hungary/Bulgaria/Romania/Turkey/Greece are for some reason cursed to have highly corrupt government most of the time.

*insert 4 paragraphs of USSR/Russia bashing here*
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: LordBerenger on October 29, 2014, 11:53:15 pm

Dunno what is with this part of Europe, but countries like Serbia/Hungary/Bulgaria/Romania/Turkey/Greece are for some reason cursed to have highly corrupt government most of the time.

Dats what happens when u choose USSR over Murrica.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Son Of Odin on October 30, 2014, 12:04:08 am
Dats what happens when u choose USSR over Murrica.

>Implies you have to choose either one.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Umbra on October 30, 2014, 12:22:22 am
67% of parliament. Lol gg no re
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: LordBerenger on October 30, 2014, 12:31:17 am
>Implies you have to choose either one.

Pepsi - Coke

Democrats - Republicans

Anime - Manga

COD - Battlefield

USSR - Western Powers

Choose either or choose death
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2014, 12:47:14 am
>Implies you have to choose either one.

Unless you are switzerland, I really dunno
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Kafein on October 30, 2014, 01:29:11 am
Christo you have to realize that living with idiots won't make them intelligent. Of course Hungarian isn't the best of languages if you want to relocate.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Butan on October 30, 2014, 01:44:00 am
Except that if you use the internet as a company, or for a cash register, the tax is not 700 HUF.
It's 5000. For every damned subscription.

Also either Butan is trolling as you have said, or he really needs to get out of his cave and read up about the hungarian events of the recent.. well a year is enough.

I was talking about the referenced plateau for individuals. There was no information in your OP about business rates so I didnt provide any opinion on it, seems over the top to react that way because I did not follow the Hungarian news network  :|
On that part, I agree with you, it seems very exaggerated and could close business if the plateau is not global (a per business cap) and/or it remains that high a plateau for each client. Protest so that it changes  :wink:




Then If you want to digress on Hungary general state of affairs, you are most than welcome, I hope you will appreciate my "trolling" participation.

One word : Populism

Impopular taxes is the farthest thing from Populism.
Populist feels like a byword to say "getting the absolute majority" in parliament/senate these days  :wink:

They are the parliament.

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Even without the constitutional change they made after winning a majority in 2010, do you think that they would have been ousted by your people in the next parliamentary election of 2014?
You sound, to me, very bitter about your own country... for reasons, of course. It is also extremely harder to accept democracy when its working opposite of your ideals...
But on a thread whose subject is an internet tax, as impopular and backwards it is in the world of today, it feels hors de propos, even though its interesting background information on you and how you see your country (of that, we both know I've read some parts on a different thread :D), relative to the subject.
I understand the feeling you have, it doesnt seem like its the paradise down there, but you can host a thread without being a total jerk to those who arent jumping on your train.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Kirman on October 30, 2014, 01:45:41 am
I hope Erdogan won't hear about this otherwise we are fucked aswell  :?
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Leshma on October 30, 2014, 02:09:54 am
>Implies you have to choose either one.

For some reason, if you live in this area you have to. And both choices are bad, result in thievery but in different style and for different master. What appalls people the most about Russians is their blunt/prehistoric man style of doing things. When they steal from you, they snatch the bag of gold in front of you, then hit you in the head with a club. Western types prefer to do it like Garrett in original Thief series.

Our most successful president (during communist times) found out a way how to steal from both sides, while preferring none. At the end it came with a terrible cost, but it was cool while it was working. Right now you have to chose and it's FIFO ordered queue, where those who have made their choice last get nothing but crumbles (translates into country with poor standard, built to serve those in front of the line).
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: BlindGuy on October 30, 2014, 03:09:50 am
Dunno what is with this part of Europe, but countries like Serbia/Hungary/Bulgaria/Romania/Turkey/Greece are for some reason cursed to have highly corrupt government most of the time.

Not true. What makes that area stand out is how badly they hide it.

Pepsi - Coke

Democrats - Republicans

Anime - Manga

COD - Battlefield

USSR - Western Powers

Choose either or choose death

I would refer at this point to the term Third World, but most everyone in this community is too young to remember the true meaning of that, since these days it seems used to mean an underdeveloped country.


Someone elected these politicians.

This. Fuckers keep going to vote like it makes a difference, political figureheads really dont matter, they have little to no say, as George put it: "This country was bought and sold long ago..." it's the same for any country, any organised country, those in charge stay in charge while they parade a punch of numpties past the public who fucking vote for them, rally for them, spend time and money for these lowlife, scumbag, used car salesmen cunts, while civil servants keep goverment ticking over and those that have the cash continue to run the country for their personal gain.

I don't have a better system in mind, but we could be SO much better off without the fucking parasites. The best a politician can hope for is to line his pockets with silver, since you CANNOT change a country in 4 years. Any plan you make that would have a meaningful effect will just be dismantled or bastadised by the next group of cunts, so realistically there is no point in doing anything while in goverment except get as rich as possible.

What eastern Europe needs is subtlety. Look to the UK. Look to Germany, France. Look to Scandinavia: you hardly ever see anyone being plastered for mass corruption there: why? Are humans essentially different in these countries? No, we are all the same, what's different is the level of subtlety and finesse. In the East, if you are an investigative journalist getting into some shit, you disapear or meet some very nasty accident if you get found out.

In the West, they silence you financially, find some bombthreats in your emails and have you renditioned, get a nice picture of your kids and show it to you on a bus, intern you forever and keep it under wraps with the official secrets act, and keep whatever they want out of the media out, since it is their medium. These are the subtle ways to keep the masses in line. Murdering dissenters is so 20th century.

If you actually want to change the world, stop voting. And if anyone asks you, tell them the truth: it doesn't mean anything. We cannot ever take the power back, the age of revolutions in organised western countries is behind us. The cobbled streets are almost gone, and honestly, without the thread of mass violence there is no way to keep those in power honest. Those who rule will continue to do so. I just wish we could remove the parasite of "democracy" from the system, since it does is make us all poorer. The bosses will still get the same cut of the pie, neither they nor the masses have anything to lose, except the wool over our eyes.

Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Smoothrich on October 30, 2014, 03:55:04 am

If you actually want to change the world, stop voting. And if anyone asks you, tell them the truth: it doesn't mean anything. We cannot ever take the power back, the age of revolutions in organised western countries is behind us. The cobbled streets are almost gone, and honestly, without the thread of mass violence there is no way to keep those in power honest. Those who rule will continue to do so. I just wish we could remove the parasite of "democracy" from the system, since it does is make us all poorer. The bosses will still get the same cut of the pie, neither they nor the masses have anything to lose, except the wool over our eyes.

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Boy black Americans in the south sure had a lot of freedom when they all decided not to vote for a couple hundred years.

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Damn BlindGuy look at those people wanting to vote despite your posts. Better take a walk around 1950s Alabama and teach them a lesson with all your white buddies.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: BlindGuy on October 30, 2014, 05:40:17 am
Yeah WHOOPTY FUCKING DO FOR THEM! Now they can truly have a say in FUCK ALL.

You call them Americans. For a couple of hundred years. Now: did a slave have US citizenship? I could be wrong but I don't think they did.

Now, without bringing stupid sensationalist bullshit into it, which might be hard for you, lets get real:

Is it right that people who pay taxes in what they believe to be a democracy have their ability to vote dictated by accidents of birth? No, it is not right.

Is it right that anyone is discriminated against in ANY way by accident of birth? No it is not

( BTW, before someone who cannot count past 10 with his shoes on wades in, accident means unplanned event, and since noone planned their skin colour previous to their birth, I think it is an accurate word, and does NOT imply that being any particular colour is a negative, since accident is used predominantly in a negative context in our day and age.)

That being written, let's look at this issue, if you like: Black US citizens (Don't write Americans, please, in this case at least, since the US is pretty fucking backward when it comes to civil rights in the Americas) were not being allowed to vote. They were taxed yet excluded from many activities and venues...

I'm not surprised they wanted to be equal. I'm surprised that they didn't do it sooner, with violence. I know I fucking would have. All they needed was the organisation. But let's not forget that once they brought their plight into media spotlight, it was white middle class people who took up their fight, just decent people who were not affected by the events but felt that to discriminate against someone for something that is not their choice is wrong. I couldn't agree more. And it's great to see how those poor black minorities used that new political freedom to bring political, economic and social equality to their people, and how it led to the end of the black ghetto in the great United States. Wait a minute... It didnt do any of that. They are still poor, underrepresented in goverment, and live in the shadow of immense covert rascism. Sometimes less covert than others.

But that's beside the point: I'm not arguing for a racial devide, and trying to equate my points with these photos is farcical at best. I'm happy that we don't live in a time when this overt rascism was the norm. And I'm guessing you are too. But here's a thing: if we did live back then, I would still think a racial devide is a crime, but I don't know that you would. You are a product of your surroundings, at least your outward persona here on forums is. As an example of such, I present, this thread: when you can clearly read that I am advocating a removal of democracy or at least it's more bullshit trappings, you throw a completely unrelated topic into the discussion that will garner you popular opinion, despite it being 1/ unrelated and 2/ fucking sickening.

Now, that kind of argument tactic is highly prevalent amongst your society, we see it from the lowest form of argument (convos such as this one, where you try to lambast my point with some throwbacks to your racist past) to the highest public address (Whole for-profit wars that ruin countries and lives being hailed as a war on terror and a strike for freedom). I guess it's pointless to argue with you, if it ever got to the point when you finally ran out of diversion tactics you would simply stick your fingers in your ears and start chanting "For Legs Good, Two Legs Bad"... oh wait, sorry "Murica, Freedom, Etc" ad naseum.

And since you made this a civil rights issue with you photos: Let's look at rights. It is your right to vote. It is also your right to not vote. Oh, plenty spin the line "Its your duty to vote" or "If you dont vote you dont have a say in things" but lets be realistic: voting perpetuates a system that everyone distrusts at some point, noone who is not a child believes this system to be just or accountable, and no real change has ever come from inside the political machine. To send a real point, and excersize your right, chose not to vote, if you all did it then you could send a real message.

Or don't, go ahead and vote for whoever's lies you like the smell of more. I cannot make you do something, nor would I want to. I hold many legal passports, but I have never voted. When there is a real choice on the table, maybe I will reconsider, but I refuse to choose between Lukewarm Bullshit and Fresh Steaming Bullshit.


PS: also, anyone who votes to the right is a fucking idiot, no exceptions, the past cannot be the future, it doesn't work that way. Shit is linear.



EDIT:
Damn BlindGuy look at those people wanting to vote despite your posts. Better take a walk around 1950s Alabama and teach them a lesson with all your white buddies.

I hadn't read the last couple of words: Sure mate, I guess I'm white... Not white enough to avoid being called a gyppo... and tbh, I don't know if I could have voted back then, did they use a colour chart or something to determine who was light enough to vote, or what? Did they just ask you shit like "Hey man, you wanna vote? You don't like watermelon do you?" or some other such rascist shit? I have no clue. If it was a chart, I might have passed, who knows... My old man's school pic shows him sat next to the aboriginal kids and he doesn't look out of place if I'm honest.

But as to going back to 1950's: I wouldn't mind, I'm colourblind, so I guess I would fit right in back then since it seems pretty monochrome.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Smoothrich on October 30, 2014, 07:37:16 am
Yeah WHOOPTY FUCKING DO FOR THEM! Now they can truly have a say in FUCK ALL.

You call them Americans. For a couple of hundred years. Now: did a slave have US citizenship? I could be wrong but I don't think they did.

Now, without bringing stupid sensationalist bullshit into it, which might be hard for you, lets get real:

Is it right that people who pay taxes in what they believe to be a democracy have their ability to vote dictated by accidents of birth? No, it is not right.

Is it right that anyone is discriminated against in ANY way by accident of birth? No it is not

( BTW, before someone who cannot count past 10 with his shoes on wades in, accident means unplanned event, and since noone planned their skin colour previous to their birth, I think it is an accurate word, and does NOT imply that being any particular colour is a negative, since accident is used predominantly in a negative context in our day and age.)

That being written, let's look at this issue, if you like: Black US citizens (Don't write Americans, please, in this case at least, since the US is pretty fucking backward when it comes to civil rights in the Americas) were not being allowed to vote. They were taxed yet excluded from many activities and venues...

I'm not surprised they wanted to be equal. I'm surprised that they didn't do it sooner, with violence. I know I fucking would have. All they needed was the organisation. But let's not forget that once they brought their plight into media spotlight, it was white middle class people who took up their fight, just decent people who were not affected by the events but felt that to discriminate against someone for something that is not their choice is wrong. I couldn't agree more. And it's great to see how those poor black minorities used that new political freedom to bring political, economic and social equality to their people, and how it led to the end of the black ghetto in the great United States. Wait a minute... It didnt do any of that. They are still poor, underrepresented in goverment, and live in the shadow of immense covert rascism. Sometimes less covert than others.

But that's beside the point: I'm not arguing for a racial devide, and trying to equate my points with these photos is farcical at best. I'm happy that we don't live in a time when this overt rascism was the norm. And I'm guessing you are too. But here's a thing: if we did live back then, I would still think a racial devide is a crime, but I don't know that you would. You are a product of your surroundings, at least your outward persona here on forums is. As an example of such, I present, this thread: when you can clearly read that I am advocating a removal of democracy or at least it's more bullshit trappings, you throw a completely unrelated topic into the discussion that will garner you popular opinion, despite it being 1/ unrelated and 2/ fucking sickening.

Now, that kind of argument tactic is highly prevalent amongst your society, we see it from the lowest form of argument (convos such as this one, where you try to lambast my point with some throwbacks to your racist past) to the highest public address (Whole for-profit wars that ruin countries and lives being hailed as a war on terror and a strike for freedom). I guess it's pointless to argue with you, if it ever got to the point when you finally ran out of diversion tactics you would simply stick your fingers in your ears and start chanting "For Legs Good, Two Legs Bad"... oh wait, sorry "Murica, Freedom, Etc" ad naseum.

And since you made this a civil rights issue with you photos: Let's look at rights. It is your right to vote. It is also your right to not vote. Oh, plenty spin the line "Its your duty to vote" or "If you dont vote you dont have a say in things" but lets be realistic: voting perpetuates a system that everyone distrusts at some point, noone who is not a child believes this system to be just or accountable, and no real change has ever come from inside the political machine. To send a real point, and excersize your right, chose not to vote, if you all did it then you could send a real message.

Or don't, go ahead and vote for whoever's lies you like the smell of more. I cannot make you do something, nor would I want to. I hold many legal passports, but I have never voted. When there is a real choice on the table, maybe I will reconsider, but I refuse to choose between Lukewarm Bullshit and Fresh Steaming Bullshit.


PS: also, anyone who votes to the right is a fucking idiot, no exceptions, the past cannot be the future, it doesn't work that way. Shit is linear.



EDIT:
I hadn't read the last couple of words: Sure mate, I guess I'm white... Not white enough to avoid being called a gyppo... and tbh, I don't know if I could have voted back then, did they use a colour chart or something to determine who was light enough to vote, or what? Did they just ask you shit like "Hey man, you wanna vote? You don't like watermelon do you?" or some other such rascist shit? I have no clue. If it was a chart, I might have passed, who knows... My old man's school pic shows him sat next to the aboriginal kids and he doesn't look out of place if I'm honest.

But as to going back to 1950's: I wouldn't mind, I'm colourblind, so I guess I would fit right in back then since it seems pretty monochrome.

To sum up your post, you believe it was white middle class educated people like yourself, who are the true heroes of the american civil rights movement. If you were black in the 1910s in the South, your innate white middle class organizational skills would've broken the chains of oppression decades in advance. Black people are not really Americans or citizens, and only became real Americans when white people said so 50 years ago. And since there are still poor black people, no black people should vote because its their fault.

And after your entire point about not voting, you end with "and btw if u vote for a right-wing candidate you're dumb"

The sheer ignorance and hypocrisy of your views on race, society, and history are embarrassing, and representative of Europe as a whole.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: BlindGuy on October 30, 2014, 08:03:45 am
LOL Smooth, yes, that's exactly what I wrote.

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Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Tibe on October 30, 2014, 08:36:55 am
Or don't, go ahead and vote for whoever's lies you like the smell of more. I cannot make you do something, nor would I want to. I hold many legal passports, but I have never voted. When there is a real choice on the table, maybe I will reconsider, but I refuse to choose between Lukewarm Bullshit and Fresh Steaming Bullshit.
Someone will still vote thou. Always. And if its bunch of groups of extremist retards, while the people "with brains" according to your words, are protesting and not voting to prove their point, good luck on enjoying that fucked up society. Not voting will not save a country from demise, but rather speeds it up. And violently taking down a government will pretty much backtrack that countries development many years. Rebuilding it later wont be easy, depending entirely on the inpact. If it comes to that, youd better be damn sure the current rule is so bad that its all worth it. Atm atleast, for most EU countries, im quessing, its not.

The sheer ignorance and hypocrisy of your views on race, society, and history are embarrassing, and representative of Europe as a whole.
Lolwat? Fuck you Fatpoor. :lol:
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: BlindGuy on October 30, 2014, 09:02:38 am
Someone will still vote thou. Always. And if its bunch of groups of extremist retards, while the people "with brains" according to your words, are protesting and not voting to prove their point, good luck on enjoying that fucked up society. Not voting will not save a country from demise, but rather speeds it up. And violently taking down a government will pretty much backtrack that countries development many years. Rebuilding it later wont be easy, depending entirely on the inpact. If it comes to that, youd better be damn sure the current rule is so bad that its all worth it. Atm atleast, for most EU countries, im quessing, its not.
Lolwat? Fuck you Fatpoor. :lol:

Well, most often you given 1 or 2 realistic options to vote for, a few nutjobs. But since you cannot in actually achieve anything while in goverment, it doesn't matter who gets elected, they can't do shit all in 4-5 years, at worst you got a few years of retarded laws that get repealed, at best you get fucking cunts who make themselves so hated they get assasinated and are therefor out of the problem. Rinse and repeat.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Umbra on October 30, 2014, 09:13:21 am
To sum up your post, you believe it was white middle class educated people like yourself, who are the true heroes of the american civil rights movement. If you were black in the 1910s in the South, your innate white middle class organizational skills would've broken the chains of oppression decades in advance. Black people are not really Americans or citizens, and only became real Americans when white people said so 50 years ago. And since there are still poor black people, no black people should vote because its their fault.

And after your entire point about not voting, you end with "and btw if u vote for a right-wing candidate you're dumb"

The sheer ignorance and hypocrisy of your views on race, society, and history are embarrassing, and representative of Europe as a whole.

Because Europe is a homogeneous entity where everyone has the same opinion. WE ARE THE EUROPE, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Smoothrich on October 30, 2014, 09:28:52 am
No, Europe is a backwater of ethnic cleansing mistreatment of immigrants austerity measures and worst of all inhumane wars and suffering. America takes on the cost of defending human rights around the world because Europe was only good for taking them away through centuries of shameful imperialism.  We live in  living memory of the Holocaust and outside of brave England total surrender to fucking Naz1 Germany.

And the Russians and Americans that you degrade were the ones who saved your entire cultures.  Haha.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Umbra on October 30, 2014, 09:42:27 am
Segregation, manifest destiny, KKK, American imperilalism - philippines, hawaii, and the modern imperialism etc., Napalm in Nam, Guantanamo. You dropped two Atomic bombs for Crhist sake. I could go on if you want... attrocities happen everywhere. Just because some stupid people on the internet are generalizing cunts when it comes to their view about America doesent mean you have to be the same kind of cunt about Europe.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Molly on October 30, 2014, 10:06:03 am
No, Europe is a backwater of ethnic cleansing mistreatment of immigrants austerity measures and worst of all inhumane wars and suffering. America takes on the cost of defending human rights around the world because Europe was only good for taking them away through centuries of shameful imperialism.  We live in  living memory of the Holocaust and outside of brave England total surrender to fucking Naz1 Germany.

And the Russians and Americans that you degrade were the ones who saved your entire cultures.  Haha.
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Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Materia on October 30, 2014, 11:52:15 am
I also forgot to note that there were protests in 12 hungarian cities, in Britain, Poland, and the Netherlands.

Good to know people of europe are with us. There were also EU flags everywhere on these protests.

This is not only about this tax only. It is about abuse of political power, endless corruption, the head of NAV got banned out of the USA for corruption charges for an example, and five more people also did.

Of course. Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki. / Lengyel, Magyar – két jó barát, együtt harcol, s issza borát.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2014, 12:14:57 pm
Did this seriously become another NA bullshit thread.

._.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Umbra on October 30, 2014, 12:16:47 pm
You are both wrong and gay because Murica + Yurop = best friends, no homo. Banter is banter but when push comes to shove we bomb some moslems together <3

 :D
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Leshma on October 30, 2014, 12:46:04 pm
Did this seriously become another NA bullshit thread.

._.

Look around and find me one that isn't becoming 'another NA bullshit thread' :wink:
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Smoothrich on October 30, 2014, 12:48:54 pm
By creating inhumane wars and suffering?

Dont know if blind or troll.


Yeah boy Europe really left the Middle East and Africa, and even the Americas, in great shape. Its like America has put back those places 500 years of thriving independence and culture with our McDonalds and hip-hop since the 90s.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2014, 01:27:22 pm
Guys.


..Anyway, there is a theory that they are doing this to deliberately crash IT industry here, so they can purchase it via state funds and make it centralized. Then comes the 'national internet and cable TV provider', and censorship.

This seems very likely to happen, I've seen similar cases to this already.

Oh boy.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Umbra on October 30, 2014, 01:55:44 pm
If there is one thing that will make politically apathetic young people into violent protestors its messing with the internet. Hell, take away the net from me and after a certian ammount of time i believe i would be ready to throw some molotovs. I would be extremely suprised if they actually managed to pull this shit off.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Smoothrich on October 30, 2014, 02:22:12 pm
What's funny is Japan got so bad up to WW2 cuz they started copying Europeans. History was decided when we used atom bombs to finally get unconditional surrender and immediately begin human aid and rebuilding to all of Europe and Japan,  with half the world wishing they got America on their side instead of the Soviets. With the EU on the brink of economic failure and European NATOs cowardice on display over Crimea and ISIS, you are all gonna be wishing you lived in America real soon heh
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Umbra on October 30, 2014, 02:24:06 pm
You are trying too hard now, be more mild so its not so obvious you are trolling.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2014, 02:28:56 pm
Smoothrich, go to another topic with your USA nonsense.

Nobody cares.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Tibe on October 30, 2014, 02:40:56 pm
God is he always gonna be like this from now on? Its like a second Berenger. So desperate for an identity so he goes for the stereotypical patriotism act to draw others into the "my pillowfort is better than yours" pissingcontest.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: cmp on October 30, 2014, 02:47:51 pm
The chinese buying them out must have really taken a toll on him.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Leshma on October 30, 2014, 02:51:36 pm
I bet Smoothrich is moonshiner irl.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on October 30, 2014, 03:06:47 pm

I'm fucking done with this joke of a country. Wish I could just get the hell out of here before these imbeciles get us kicked out from EU or close borders. We are pretty much the laughingstock of europe.

=/

Remember things could always be worse. What if you were living in Turkey right now?
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2014, 03:45:13 pm
Remember things could always be worse. What if you were living in Turkey right now?

That doesn't make it any better though. e.e
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Materia on October 30, 2014, 04:04:15 pm
What's funny is Japan got so bad up to WW2 cuz they started copying Europeans. History was decided when we used atom bombs to finally get unconditional surrender and immediately begin human aid and rebuilding to all of Europe and Japan,  with half the world wishing they got America on their side instead of the Soviets. With the EU on the brink of economic failure and European NATOs cowardice on display over Crimea and ISIS, you are all gonna be wishing you lived in America real soon heh

This is so called "all of Europe": visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Thank you very much Murica for rebuilding my country, which got independent in the 1989, just to fall under EU in 2003, which is offtopic. You barely have any idea of what you are writing about. You must be one of these Murica hero, that wants to introduce so called "democracy, and American way of life"... by force. America is like a bully, it only invades those who cannot defend themselves, and those that have some resources, or anything of value to share with.   
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Tibe on October 30, 2014, 04:20:58 pm
(click to show/hide)
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Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Smoothrich on October 30, 2014, 04:29:23 pm
This is so called "all of Europe": visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Thank you very much Murica for rebuilding my country, which got independent in the 1989, just to fall under EU in 2003, which is offtopic. You barely have any idea of what you are writing about. You must be one of these Murica hero, that wants to introduce so called "democracy, and American way of life"... by force. America is like a bully, it only invades those who cannot defend themselves, and those that have some resources, or anything of value to share with.

Sorry that Germany and Russia gangbanged central europe while the rest of Europe did nothing until it was their turn to surrender to H1tler then be liberated/raped by Stalin's hordes. We would've gotten there sooner, but France you know was a naz1 collaborator by then and kept killing Americans and Brits trying to help. But the miserable low quality of life you most likely live today is a gift from American made nukes, cuz your generation would've probably been sent off to die by now in a massive European land war if the USA wasn't around to keep everyone in line.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2014, 04:32:54 pm
Poland is actually one of the best economical performers of the region.

I'm trying to find the graph I saw some days ago, but compared with hungary and the czech republic, etc they do way better, and came out of the economic crisis much faster as well.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Tibe on October 30, 2014, 04:35:57 pm
Do these posters look like they care about the actual facts? :lol:
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Smoothrich on October 30, 2014, 04:40:20 pm
Poland is actually one of the best economical performers of the region.

Of course, I was going to make them my one exception. I'm actually half polish myself. They are a shining star of freedom in the bleak wastelands of Europe, and time and time again have faced betrayals, partitions, and near genocide at the hands of their neighbors.

No need to mention Russians watching Warsaw be razed and doing nothing about it a stone's throw away with millions of troops, or the Western betrayal to assist Poland during WW2 by their legal allies.

Why do you think Poland is one of the biggest supporters of the United States in the entire world? We both understand the costs, and rewards, of freedom, unlike most of you.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: BlindGuy on October 30, 2014, 04:47:38 pm
Most of us don't understand the cost of Freedom? I dunno mate...  My country may be corrupt to very core of its goverment and burocracy, but we have the largest and most profitable black market outside of asia, all completely untaxed, how else can a region with between 40 and 50% unenployment and no "free money" schemes survive without mass starvation? We are truly free, we trade freely, we pay no taxes, we call no police, we take care of each other reguardless of beliefs or legality.

We know Freedom, but I'm not sure you even know what it looks like Smoothrich, living in your extreme right wing bible bashing rascist centre of mental inbreeding.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Materia on October 30, 2014, 05:13:08 pm
Why do you think Poland is one of the biggest supporters of the United States in the entire world? We both understand the costs, and rewards, of freedom, unlike most of you.

Just because couple people say something, and agree on something, doesnt mean entire nation support them. Poland is great example, a country of constant inner conflicts. Politicians do whatever they want, noone ask us, citizens what do we want, do we agree or not, its not Switzerland with its constant pools. This is Poland. You choose politicians basing on empty promises, and once he/she is choosen, they are not obligated to do what they said they will be doing. They can do whatever they want to. Law is not for everyone, etc., but Im not going to write about Poland, because its not the topic about it.

Last thing, Poland might look good in comparison to other ex ZSRR countries, but its not as good as it seems to be. Over 3 millions Poles left Poland in the last few years, for financial reasons.

Minimum wage here:

1680,00 PLN - Polska brutto
397,35 EUR - Unia Europejska

1237,00 zł PLN - Polska netto
292,57 EUR - Unia Europejska

1680,00 PLN - Polska brutto
500,12 USD - USA

1237,00 zł PLN - Polska netto
368,24 USD - USA

I strongly discourage anyone from coming here [its only good place to visit as a tourist destination], unless you are a Doctor, Engineer, Lawyer, IT dude, but even then, you might be going farther west, because Poles usually are treated like people of 3rd, or worse category, so dont bother.

Better go elsewhere.

Last one thing. Poland is one of the greates supporter of USA because politicians are morons. Americans call us great ally, but we need visia, and green card lottery, wtf is that? Since my early years I have always dreamt of emigrating to the USA, I remember how I followed the Iraq invasion in the CNN, I remember how USA kept on feeding us "Hey Poland, agree and you wont need visa etc.". Im 26 now, and guess what? I keep on hearing it again, and again. For all these years.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Smoothrich on October 30, 2014, 05:17:03 pm
Just because couple people say something, and agree on something, doesnt mean entire nation support them. Poland is great example, a country of constant inner conflicts. Politicians do whatever they want, noone ask us, citizens what do we want, do we agree or not, its not Switzerland with its constant pools. This is Poland. You choose politicians basing on empty promises, and once he/she is choosen, they are not obligated to do what they said they will be doing. They can do whatever they want to. Law is not for everyone, etc., but Im not going to write about Poland, because its not the topic about it.

Last thing, Poland might look good in comparison to other ex ZSRR countries, but its not as good as it seems to be. Over 3 millions Poles left Poland in the last few years, for financial reasons.

Minimum wage here:

1680,00 PLN - Polska brutto
397,35 EUR - Unia Europejska

1237,00 zł PLN - Polska netto
292,57 EUR - Unia Europejska

1680,00 PLN - Polska brutto
500,12 USD - USA

1237,00 zł PLN - Polska netto
368,24 USD - USA

I strongly discourage anyone from coming here [its only good place to visit as a tourist destination], unless you are a Doctor, Engineer, Lawyer, IT dude, but even then, you might be going farther west, because Poles usually are treated like people of 3rd, or worse category, so dont bother.

Better go elsewhere.

Haha sounds just like America man seriously. Come try to immigrate to USA and get denied a visa so you become a sexy blond illegal polish immigrant house maid that we all love in New Jersey.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2014, 05:25:30 pm
Last thing, Poland might look good in comparison to other ex ZSRR countries, but its not as good as it seems to be.

That is evident, I was only referencing it under those circumstances.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Smoothrich on October 30, 2014, 05:33:46 pm
Last one thing. Poland is one of the greates supporter of USA because politicians are morons. Americans call us great ally, but we need visia, and green card lottery, wtf is that? Since my early years I have always dreamt of emigrating to the USA, I remember how I followed the Iraq invasion in the CNN, I remember how USA kept on feeding us "Hey Poland, agree and you wont need visa etc.". Im 26 now, and guess what? I keep on hearing it again, and again. For all these years.

Yeah we all know our immigration system is completely fucked up. Hurry up and stay here illegally in time for Obama or the next Democratic president to pass executive amnesty so you never get deported and can work and shit. Its what many have to do lol but whenever US congress gets along again they will have to reform it all somehow soon.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: BlindGuy on October 30, 2014, 05:34:35 pm
That is evident, I was only referencing it under those circumstances.

Dis tbh, he did say it was better than other ex-Pact countries. Sad to say that USSR could maybe have worked well if they hadn't spent so much fucking money bolstering their "allies" in asia and africa. As it is, instead they ruined their chances by not focusing on their core countries. Fucking idiots, way to throw away the legacy of billions of people.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Kafein on October 30, 2014, 06:04:41 pm
Blindguy versus Smoothrich, funniest thread ever. If I didn't have them both on my ignore list.

I was talking about the referenced plateau for individuals. There was no information in your OP about business rates so I didnt provide any opinion on it, seems over the top to react that way because I did not follow the Hungarian news network  :|
On that part, I agree with you, it seems very exaggerated and could close business if the plateau is not global (a per business cap) and/or it remains that high a plateau for each client. Protest so that it changes  :wink:

The plateau itself is a huge problem. at 0.6 euros per Gb, everybody even remotely connected is going to reach that 2.9 euro limit, on each of their connection plans (which means like 10 per family if you think about it). This is a large, fixed per-month amount of money that basically everybody will have to pay. In other words this is the most socially indiscriminate tax ever. There is zero reason for this tax to exist other than money, and there are much, much better ways to acquire money.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Falka on October 30, 2014, 06:31:49 pm
I'm actually half polish myself.

Oh my... that explains everything...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2014, 06:37:22 pm
The plateau itself is a huge problem. at 0.6 euros per Gb, everybody even remotely connected is going to reach that 2.9 euro limit, on each of their connection plans (which means like 10 per family if you think about it). This is a large, fixed per-month amount of money that basically everybody will have to pay. In other words this is the most socially indiscriminate tax ever. There is zero reason for this tax to exist other than money, and there are much, much better ways to acquire money.

I agree, however for companies, etc etc this is going to be a 15-16 eur tax instead of 2.9.

This won't even give that much money according to their own predictions. They deal with a lot more when it comes to stealing money, and giving projects to companies close to them via corruption. Construction is one of these for an example.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: BlindGuy on October 30, 2014, 06:50:45 pm
I agree, however for companies, etc etc this is going to be a 15-16 eur tax instead of 2.9.

This won't even give that much money according to their own predictions. They deal with a lot more when it comes to stealing money, and giving projects to companies close to them via corruption. Construction is one of these for an example.

Just be happy that you live in a democracy and can complain about because, tbh, EVERYWHERE, thats how things are done. There isn't a place on earth where cronyism and backhanders dont get shit done, it's how humans work.

Blindguy versus Smoothrich, funniest thread ever. If I didn't have them both on my ignore list.

FUCKSAKE Smooth, you see that? We aren't cool enough for the Frenchman.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2014, 07:18:27 pm
Just be happy that you live in a democracy

 :lol:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hungarys-illiberalism-should-not-go-unchallenged/2014/08/16/b2dc72d4-1e5c-11e4-82f9-2cd6fa8da5c4_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hungarys-illiberalism-should-not-go-unchallenged/2014/08/16/b2dc72d4-1e5c-11e4-82f9-2cd6fa8da5c4_story.html)
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on October 30, 2014, 08:23:56 pm
Quote
FOR FOUR years Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has been dispatching lobbyists and high-level envoys to Brussels and Washington to argue that his policies are misunderstood. Critics who claimed that he aimed to dismantle institutions such as free media and independent courts, limit freedom of religion and make his right-wing party invulnerable to electoral defeat were badly mistaken, Mr. Orban’s defenders claimed; all he was really doing was sweeping away the last vestiges of Hungary’s former communist regime.

All of that sounds bizarrely familiar. Except for the "limit freedom of religion" part of course.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2014, 08:25:02 pm
All of that sounds bizarrely familiar. Except for the "limit freedom of religion" part of course.

We don't have an equivalent of this yet though

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That is a special achievement for only the most dedicated of dictators
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on October 30, 2014, 08:51:39 pm
That is what I have been trying to say. It could all be worse, Christo. It could all be much worse.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Leshma on October 30, 2014, 10:26:51 pm
FUCKSAKE Smooth, you see that? We aren't cool enough for the Frenchman.

He's Belgian scientist of muslim heritage. I might be wrong (most of the time I am wrong).
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Kafein on October 31, 2014, 12:14:50 am
muslim heritage

why
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Tibe on October 31, 2014, 05:20:50 am
That is what I have been trying to say. It could all be worse, Christo. It could all be much worse.
Thats not helping at all you know. Especially considering that this shit is completely avoidable and on top of that totally pointless in the first place.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on October 31, 2014, 08:16:54 am
Avoidable depends on how big and stubborn of a tick the prime minister is. And also on how far he is willing to go. I remember tons of shit being avoidable and funny to even think about. Needless to say they all ended up happening.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on October 31, 2014, 12:30:10 pm
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29846285?ocid=socialflow_twitter (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29846285?ocid=socialflow_twitter)

It's not over yet, he only said that it won't be implemented in this current form.

Don't trust this motherfucker.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Butan on October 31, 2014, 02:42:52 pm
The plateau itself is a huge problem. at 0.6 euros per Gb, everybody even remotely connected is going to reach that 2.9 euro limit, on each of their connection plans (which means like 10 per family if you think about it). This is a large, fixed per-month amount of money that basically everybody will have to pay. In other words this is the most socially indiscriminate tax ever. There is zero reason for this tax to exist other than money, and there are much, much better ways to acquire money.

Yes, since internet is very fast and a Gb is more and more considered as the Mb of yore, the plateau will be reached by anyone who is playing videos/downloading games/softwares and to an extent, using torrents and the like. Which is why a plateau is extremely important, and the lower the better.
On the individual connexion tax, how would they differentiate several people using the same connexion, and tax them each, making it 10€ monthly for a family as you said?


And on the general matter of taxes, there is always a better way to acquire money, as long as it doesnt come out from our own pockets  :P
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: LordBerenger on October 31, 2014, 02:53:09 pm
Hungry áryans

Huehuehuehuehue
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Kafein on October 31, 2014, 05:27:45 pm
Yes, since internet is very fast and a Gb is more and more considered as the Mb of yore, the plateau will be reached by anyone who is playing videos/downloading games/softwares and to an extent, using torrents and the like. Which is why a plateau is extremely important, and the lower the better.

The lower the limit, the more this tax hurts the poor and not the rich. The actual amount of tax per Gb is astronomical and I assume would actually represent more money per month than your internet subscription if there was no limit. This tax is effectively blind to everything.

And on the general matter of taxes, there is always a better way to acquire money, as long as it doesnt come out from our own pockets  :P

Do you honestly think this is an argument?

This tax serves no incentive purpose, unlike a tax on unhealthy food or a tax on carbon. This tax is unfair, due to the extremely low limit. This tax isn't there to pay for infrastructure because as far as I know the internet infrastructure isn't maintained by the government. By extension this tax doesn't support investment in the infrastructure. This tax doesn't encourage a decrease in internet use due to the limit but at the same time there is no reason to discourage internet use. In other words it's just a funny way to call the "let's steal 3 euros per month from everyone" tax.

I'm not advocating for a tax-free utopia here, I'm just saying this is the worst way to tax. Do you know what worst means?
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Butan on October 31, 2014, 05:54:01 pm
Quote
The lower the limit, the more this tax hurts the poor and not the rich.

The lower the limit, the better it is for the poor, the rich included. If they dont include average salary in the equation, it will not discriminate the poor from the rich, but saying a lower plateau hurts the poor is not true.


Quote
I'm not advocating for a tax-free utopia here, I'm just saying this is the worst way to tax. Do you know what worst means?

I know whats avoiding the only question in my post  :P why you quote anything but that? At least develop on your own previous thought.

everybody even remotely connected is going to reach that 2.9 euro limit, on each of their connection plans (which means like 10 per family if you think about it).
On the individual connexion tax, how would they differentiate several people using the same connexion, and tax them each, making it 10€ monthly for a family as you said?
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Kafein on October 31, 2014, 11:37:28 pm
The lower the limit, the better it is for the poor, the rich included. If they dont include average salary in the equation, it will not discriminate the poor from the rich, but saying a lower plateau hurts the poor is not true.

The problem is that the tax doesn't actually follow the amount of usage. It would make sense to have a low cost per Gb with a higher limit, so that large consumers pay more, and small consumers pay less. Suppose the tax brings X amount of cash in the bank, it would be better if it took more from people who can support it easily and less from the others. You argument is basically "the tax could be higher so it's not hurting the poor" well yes it is, because comparing things that don't bring the same amount of money to the government doesn't make sense in this context.

I know whats avoiding the only question in my post  :P why you quote anything but that? At least develop on your own previous thought.
On the individual connexion tax, how would they differentiate several people using the same connexion, and tax them each, making it 10€ monthly for a family as you said?

They don't need to differentiate between people using the same connection. A family can very easily reach 1 mobile connection per person, plus one for the house.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Umbra on November 01, 2014, 11:52:01 am
So, Christo, is the tax rekt?
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: BlindGuy on November 01, 2014, 12:02:39 pm
So, Christo, is the tax rekt?

Nice signature Umbra... Oh man the more I think about that the more I laugh, he fucking rekt me with his cunning.

EDIT: SRY to temp. derail thread but I feel I should tell you Umbra: He called me, ran into the ruins, stood next to the entrance with a swing where I couldnt see him, and hit me in head with studded warclub as I came thru doorway, so I fell down, and he then ended me as I lay there wondering if anyone got the number of that donkey cart that just ran me down.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Butan on November 04, 2014, 02:00:03 am
The problem is that the tax doesn't actually follow the amount of usage. It would make sense to have a low cost per Gb with a higher limit, so that large consumers pay more, and small consumers pay less.


But since they arent stupid they know that poor as well as rich people can transfer high quantity of data... so I dont see your counter-argument to the fact that in an internet tax case, a very low plateau is the most sensible approach if its not indexed on a person revenue, if you want to raise money AND not hurt the poor more than necessary. If they applied a tax of 0.01€ per GB of data, noone would reach the plateau except those that feeds the internet the most, and they could be poor as shit free torrent seeders or rich as hell premium accounts.
The only difference would be, they would raise way less money. If you want to make a "just" tax you change the index parameter, not the plateau, especially in that case.


They don't need to differentiate between people using the same connection. A family can very easily reach 1 mobile connection per person, plus one for the house.

Case in point: they cant differentiate people using the same internet connexion...
Even if you add mobile into the mix (notwithstanding the fact that if 2€ hurts you more than ideologically, you dont own 1 internet connected subscription mobile per person in a family...), an average person doesnt download as much data on them than on a computer.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on November 04, 2014, 02:39:31 am
So, Christo, is the tax rekt?

No.

They will make some 'national consultation' about the internet tax. Pretty much bullshit card pulled so people can't protest. It's not like they will take it seriously anyway. I think the fact that the overseer and leader of this 'national consultation' called the internet tax protesters "stink bugs" alone is enough.

How can a so called consultation like this be any legitimate?

And on top of all that even worse taxes will come.

Roughly 3 million hungarians can't eat meat or a warm meal every day, which is three times worse than the EU average statistic.
But there will be an increase in food prices by 6%, stuff needed for hygenie, alcohol, and many, many other things.

This whole thing is about trying to lobby against supermarket chains like Tesco and Auchan, limiting their profits and days they can be open. Meanwhile their own "national" shop chain will be untouched by these taxes. Not like I really care about Tesco but increasing an inspection tax from 0,1% of their income, to 6% while their own chain will be unaffected.

Same goes for some christian democrat (KDNP, part of FIDESZ, pretty much christian democrat tards) plan to keep them closed on sundays. Of course this won't effect their own chain again. And they are playing with an estimated 35.000 people's jobs with this nonsense. The reason is that "people need to rest and be with their families (and go to church ofc) on a sunday"

This all on top of shit salaries, and remember, a 27% VAT.

I'm sick of this backwards, narrow-minded country, sigh.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Kafein on November 05, 2014, 12:27:39 am
Heh, we also have largely closed Sundays here and the strongest advocate of that lunacy are the unions.

Be happy of your great public transport in Budapest. It's like in Moscow or Pyongyang.

But since they arent stupid they know that poor as well as rich people can transfer high quantity of data... so I dont see your counter-argument to the fact that in an internet tax case, a very low plateau is the most sensible approach if its not indexed on a person revenue, if you want to raise money AND not hurt the poor more than necessary. If they applied a tax of 0.01€ per GB of data, noone would reach the plateau except those that feeds the internet the most, and they could be poor as shit free torrent seeders or rich as hell premium accounts.
The only difference would be, they would raise way less money. If you want to make a "just" tax you change the index parameter, not the plateau, especially in that case.

That's fair, however it doesn't really change my main point, because there's no index. One of the advantages of this tax I can see is that it's easy to organize, much like VAT. But it would be simpler to just take 2 euros from everybody and be done with it, but that's probably less appealing to the Hungarian public than something called "internet tax".

Even if you add mobile into the mix (notwithstanding the fact that if 2€ hurts you more than ideologically, you dont own 1 internet connected subscription mobile per person in a family...), an average person doesnt download as much data on them than on a computer.

Well I don't think most families prioritize spending as rationally as you seem to believe. Primarily because families include children.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on November 05, 2014, 12:37:54 am
Heh, we also have largely closed Sundays here and the strongest advocate of that lunacy are the unions.

I know but Hungary is not in an economical situation to handle such things without serious consequences.

Even the Fidesz vice-president agreed with this, while the christian democrats want to push it through. Idiocy.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2014, 07:21:00 am
Bump, I have got some fun pictures for you guys, from the fidesz serving propaganda media about economical growth rates  :mrgreen:
(click to show/hide)

This one looks like some bloody parody but it isn't  :lol:

(click to show/hide)

We are much stronk eurozone, be very, very afraid!

These are from real TV news, I'm not kidding you.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: [ptx] on November 10, 2014, 07:40:33 am
Stop QQ, get a shield lol
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Xant on November 10, 2014, 08:28:24 am
Bump, I have got some fun pictures for you guys, from the fidesz serving propaganda media about economical growth rates  :mrgreen:
(click to show/hide)

Why is Finland light green? WHAT DOES IT MEAN??
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2014, 08:33:48 am
No fucking idea, must be related to growth somehow but I haven't got a clue what kind of a moron would create a map like this anyway.
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: Algarn on November 10, 2014, 07:29:41 pm
Why is Finland light green? WHAT DOES IT MEAN??

It seems to be low growth rate. (I see Spain, Greece, etc). I'm surprised France isn't green, but this map is retarded, as the autor it seems.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Hungarian Internet Tax Disaster
Post by: lombardsoup on November 10, 2014, 08:00:39 pm
Some real statistics would be nice