cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Enver on July 07, 2014, 07:49:44 pm

Title: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Enver on July 07, 2014, 07:49:44 pm
Below is a class counter chart so players will know what classes counter what and which classes to run away from.

Its a work in progress so maybe together we can build the whole thing to be as accurate as possible. Suggest any changes you'd like to see below.

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The chart is imperfect and a work in progress. Suggest any changes you'd like to see below
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Nightingale on July 07, 2014, 08:01:30 pm
In reality every class counters another its more determinate based on player skill than some hard counter system.

However if you looked at it in a perspective of 1 horse archer vs 1 crossbower there would be so many things you would have to consider before you could decide who has the upper hand. In my honest opinion their only "Natural" counter is getting too aggressive themselves and making mistakes that lead to their death.

If you want to make a chart by all means make a chart but I doubt it will be very accurate; even if you spent the rest of your existence making it.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: _GTX_ on July 07, 2014, 08:05:32 pm
Yeah this is probably never going to be that accurate. An example could be you saying that archery/xbows is countered by 2h/polearm, which is not the impression you get on the servers/forum ;).
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: MURDERTRON on July 07, 2014, 08:09:13 pm
Calvary should be countered by literally every other class.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Switchtense on July 07, 2014, 08:12:50 pm
Calvary should be countered by literally every other class.

And at the same time countering every other class.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Nightingale on July 07, 2014, 08:13:00 pm
The counter for Calvary is literally everything else.
The counter for horse archer is nothing.

I think it depends what style of cavalry you are playing as. Regardless polearms, two hand and cavalry need to be a cavalry counter.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: IR_Kuoin on July 07, 2014, 08:18:58 pm
Ranged is also effective vs HA / HX
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Son Of Odin on July 07, 2014, 08:19:34 pm
So everything counters archers but archers only counter archers and crossbowmen?

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Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Grumbs on July 07, 2014, 08:24:39 pm
I don't think a chart will show the real picture. You have offensive counters and defensive counters and some classes have more than one offensive or defensive counter (everything has a melee defensive counter for eg)..some classes force multiply so having more of them than the enemy effectively reduces their defensive counters effectiveness. You have movement speed, distances to targets, terrain, line of sight, player skill... Ideally we shouldn't be talking in terms of counters too much but classes should have some pro's and cons to keep it interesting. ATM ranged seems to be too much of a hard counter to too many other classes, without much of a hard counter to them that doesn't include shooting projectiles
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Torben on July 07, 2014, 08:31:04 pm
take home message here is to tag GLB as cavweapon
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Kafein on July 07, 2014, 09:57:25 pm
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Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Mae. on July 07, 2014, 09:59:46 pm
and which classes to run away from.

ooooooooo i hate people like you!!!

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Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Tiger on July 07, 2014, 10:13:50 pm
My strength archer counters every class except shield and agi archers :o
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Smoothrich on July 07, 2014, 10:42:21 pm
ooooooooo i hate people like you!!!

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Don't play on EU battle then. You'll be amazed at how many infantry players, in full heavy armor, will run away if they do not outnumber you 5:1.

On NA even the worst of players will just duel you to the death regardless of class or situation. whether it be two archers wasting all round on each other or two cav that lock up in a corner of the map hacking away at each other's horse (and then charging whoever you just dismounted which usually ends in you being dehorsed and continuining the fight on the ground). This is actually one of the funniest and best parts of the NA mentality.

On EU, enemy cav will exclusively aim for your horse from behind and avoid any head-on engagement like a gnat. Pretty sure this is why Team USA dominated the cav tournament, because they simply do not joust each other 1vs1 and only gank. If you stumble into a 1vs3 as infantry and manage to kill a couple of them and avoid the gank, whoeever survives will immediately run away instead of trying to finish the job.

It is generally pathetic, but not surprising, considering the kind of people we know EU cRPG players to be.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Macropus on July 07, 2014, 10:51:53 pm
I was about to feel offended by this, but then I remembered Russia is not EU. So yeah, Russians are the only drunk brave people on EU servers. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Riddaren on July 07, 2014, 11:04:53 pm
A good foot archer will kill a good horse archer's horse. On foot the horse archer is the underdog again, due to 0 athletics.
So a duel between a horse archer and a foot archer of equal skill usually ends up with the horse archer getting killed.

Anyway, most kills/deaths in a battle are not in 1vs1 situations, which makes a class vs class comparison quite irrelevant in most battle situations.
Also, in 1vs1 situations the two are rarely of the same skill level.

A team with bad players will lose over a team of good players no matter class combinations in each team.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Osiris on July 07, 2014, 11:20:31 pm
Shielders counter HA? on what planet does that happen O.o
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 07, 2014, 11:49:36 pm
U srs

Edit: i am srs

Edit2: tgis is how crpg works

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Enver on July 08, 2014, 12:05:32 am
a duel between a horse archer and a foot archer of equal skill usually ends up with the horse archer getting killed.

Maybe your right, I've made a poll for it

and thanks to everyone else for their feedback.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Horns_Archive on July 08, 2014, 12:30:35 am
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Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 08, 2014, 12:36:18 am
Wy doesnt polearm counter cav?
Wy even list it under the same cathegory as 2h the only thing they have in common is both hands are being used to hold the wep
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Switchtense on July 08, 2014, 12:36:56 am
Wy doesnt polearm counter cav?

Because this is cRPG.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 08, 2014, 12:37:32 am
Because this is cRPG.

Classic
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Sharpe on July 08, 2014, 04:05:16 am
Archery counters any melee without a shield, even sometimes counters specific shielders.....
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Oberyn on July 08, 2014, 05:45:01 am
How does a shield counter HA? All HA has to do is avoid him, bump him when he's distracted, charge him head on with arrow nocked so he either gets shot or bumped, circle around and crossfire with other ranged, etc. There's a ton of choices for the HA and none for the shielder, beyond a lucky hit if the HA is retarded enough to hang around in his small melee range.
1 vs 1 is a useless comparison anyways, it only happens rarely at the end of a round. In a team vs team setting HA simply has all the best tactical options open to it in every single instance (barring siege like maps where mobility is restricted, and even then they can hang behind the inf blob, pacing back and forth while shooting at the enemy inf blob and other ranged beyond, from a much better angle than other ranged who have to look for shots in between inf and inevitably tw). As someone said, there's a reason Khergit were/are unnoficially verbotten in every native battle server.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: MURDERTRON on July 08, 2014, 06:18:17 am
Also Cavalry doesn't counter shields.  1h and polearm with shield are the most dangerous weapons against Cav.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Strider on July 08, 2014, 06:48:23 am
everything counters archers
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on July 08, 2014, 02:37:10 pm
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, worse chart evaaaaaa!

2h/polearme countering crossbow and archer....are we playing the same game?

Still in this chart, we can see the main problem of crpg, cav-ranged can beat any class. We could add the shielder, because if an hx charges a shielder, either the shielder open his shield to counter the charge and gets shot, either he keeps his shield up and gets bumped. Eventually if the hx wants to avoid direct confrontation, he can maintain distance and nobody will be able to reach him.

As a cav-ranged can maintain the distance with infantry, only two classes can kill them, melee-cav or ranged on foot. The problem is a melee-cav will not spend his money for a horse that will just get shot.
And the ranged on foot can't kill ha/hx because it's too easy to dodge arrows on horse.

The best way to solve this unbalance is to reduce the riding skill of those holding a ranged weapon, the same way the aiming skill is reduced when mounted. So the ranged on foot will be able to counter the ha/hx and the melee cavalry will be able to get away from an ha/hx that is following them.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: bagge on July 08, 2014, 02:37:41 pm
Is this troll or?
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Nehvar on July 09, 2014, 07:42:24 am
No I think he's new.  Give him a few months so that the soul-crushing can take full effect.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Herezy92 on July 09, 2014, 01:47:47 pm
I was about to feel offended by this, but then I remembered Russia is not EU. So yeah, Russians are the only drunk brave people on EU servers. :rolleyes:
:lol:
Many russians are sure that when they are playing cRPG, they risk their real life. You have so many delayers/crossbow camper etc... ^^
When you see them playing it's like they must at all cost save their ingame life, or they are going to die IRL as well.
And if you ask them why, they mostly don't awnser or don't see what's wrong :)

Of course, you also have fanatic russians brain-less charging @Merc_ Tony :D

Of course, it's not ONLY the Russians who are doing such things, so i'll withdraw as a manly noble french. :)

FrenchKiss
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Sniger on July 09, 2014, 01:51:12 pm
French tanks have rear-mirrors so they can view the battlefield when driving forward
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Herezy92 on July 09, 2014, 01:56:50 pm
French tanks have rear-mirrors so they can view the battlefield when driving forward
:lol:
True dat :D

Oh & btw, this chart is :
1 . Useless
2. Far from the ingame reality
3. A noble but non sense effort. :)

And if you are new,
1. Welcome
2. Wait some weeks, you will change your mind. :)
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: MrShine on July 09, 2014, 05:59:16 pm
If you want to make this list more comprehensive, I suggest a few changes.

- change the 2h/polearm image from the great maul to something else.  Great maul implies crushthrough, which is a different playstyle
-really just break out a few more categories.  2h/crushthrough/polearm/support polearm (longspear/pike)/hoplite.  Those should all be different classes
-include strengths & weaknesses in the list, not just strengths and REALLY BIG strengths (ie 1h shielder strong against crossbow, archer, thrower, weak against crushthrough, cavalry)

The idea is a good one, but it needs a bit more work to be truly useful.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: BlueKnight on July 09, 2014, 06:18:31 pm
Well the chart is too simple to be accurate but if it was a bit more complex like dividing archers to ~3 different types, like 'tiny bows', 'rusbowlikemy old friends with 6PD' and 'high PD bowmy old friends' then it would be a bit more accurate. 'tinybows' don't do much versus heavy inf or med&heavy cavs while they kinda counter other archers, maybe even light cav/HA and light infantry, where light infantry itself would have to be divided into some sub-groups etc.

I like the idea of the chart because even though playstyles and skill levels matter a lot, in general a swordsman has an advantage over a pikeman etc. the ideal chart would be big as fuck, but I believe, it could actually be accurate.

And the ranged on foot can't kill ha/hx because it's too easy to dodge arrows on horse.

Horses are big objects that can't turn 180 degrees at full speed just like infantry. Dismounting a HA is pretty easy as an archer unless the HA is riding a mamluk-like heavy horse or you have a longbow or high PD build versus a tinybow HA.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Sharpe on July 09, 2014, 06:31:34 pm
Also on a sidenote, I have never seen a mounted thrower be a good counter to anything; just fucking annoying. A person riding a plated charger going vroom vroom is better then a mounted thrower.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 09, 2014, 06:31:47 pm
Pretty sure we scared him off guys..

Also on a sidenote, I have never seen a mounted thrower be a good counter to anything; just fucking annoying. A person riding a plated charger going vroom vroom is better then a mounted thrower.

I think with a bit of practice throwing lances on horses could be devestating. Throwing is fairly usefull for killing off chasers, though I think alot of other classes do much better at that.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Enver on July 10, 2014, 01:07:05 am
so something like this

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were black is a strong weakness and grey is a minor weakness
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Afina on July 10, 2014, 06:57:43 am
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Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Oberyn on July 10, 2014, 07:16:25 am
Also on a sidenote, I have never seen a mounted thrower be a good counter to anything; just fucking annoying. A person riding a plated charger going vroom vroom is better then a mounted thrower.

There's a really good horse thrower that uses jarrids, I forget his name, starts with M Torost the tickler, uses that blue palace guard armor usually and a tanky horse. I've seen him fuck up melee and other ranged cav alike on the regular, I usually made him a priority target over almost any other horse ranged. HT aren't as useful vs infantry cause of low ammo amount, but if played properly they're amazing cav hunters.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Templar_Steevee on July 10, 2014, 07:37:17 am
Good and well positioned archer can counter most of clases. Shielders are hardest to kill, but if they make a mistake, they are dead.

Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: PsychoTwins on July 10, 2014, 07:41:39 am
Good and well positioned archer can counter most of clases. Shielders are hardest to kill, but if they make a mistake, they are dead.

Here, dear crpg folk, we have an honest man who doesn't conceal the truth out of the fear of getting nerfed. He surely deserves a round of heartfelt applause.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Shemaforash on July 10, 2014, 04:16:04 pm
inaccurate chart
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 10, 2014, 07:34:07 pm
You know what's strong in every situation?  Teamwork.  Tactics.  Intelligence.  Battlefield awareness.  Using terrain to your advantage. 

The class is strong and weak vs chart is a pretty good start, but there's a lot that can be added to it.  Every class is weak to at least two other classes, but like Enver shows above, typically many many more (depending on the situation).

Also, my advice is not to play crpg in a vacuum. You typically shouldn't be going 1v1 against other classes, or you're playing the mod wrong. The battle server is just that, a battle server.  Not a duel server.  If you're infantry and trying to 1 v a horse archer, you're doing it wrong.  Most of the time you won't be going up 1v1 if you're doing it right.  Find a buddy and fight with him.  Hopefully you and your buddy will be fighting with another guy and his buddy.  You get enough of these people together and your little gank squad should have enough classes where they are strong vs any enemies they encounter.  I call this my "nut to butt" tactic.  Find a buddy and stick with him, nut to butt.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Eugen on July 10, 2014, 08:21:52 pm
Chart looks good. Could fit into some future c-rpg wiki. I would keep it simple though, becouse, yes, they are many factors.

Shield > Range
Range > non shield Infantry and light horse
Cav > infantry with short weapons and other Cav
Pole > Cav
HA/HX > non delayers (?)

2h and other infantry is basically the meat and heart of game the damagedealers. Softspots: ranged and cav.

thats about it, i would say.

EDIT: HA/HX should count as Light Cavalry and counter Heavy Cavalry becouse of faster and more agile horses.
And I would also just combine throwers, archers and x-bowers together as ranged. Not much difference imho.

Dont make to many classes: 2h Infantry, Shield Infantry, Pole Infantry, Ranged Infantry, Heavy and Light Cav should be enough for your couse.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Eugen on July 10, 2014, 08:26:18 pm
error.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: stickher on July 11, 2014, 09:04:17 am
How can range be counter by shields if the range shoots at others who don't have one. also if the shielder is in his face a good player with range could stomp on him.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Donkey_Thrower on July 11, 2014, 08:10:03 pm
you forgot the most important class of all... Donkey Thrower.

Counters: Anything mounted
Weakness: Anything not mounted
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: LordRichrich on July 11, 2014, 08:26:46 pm
Please add "heavy cav" and light cav" instead of just cav.

You'll notice all those my old friends on arabian warhorses won't charge into aware infantry or archers (light cav), me on my warhorse (heavy cav); I'll barrel straight at any mofo who can't rear me! If I think they're good, I block and bump, otherwise I slow down, dodge the swing and wheel into slicing their head!

Light cav counters anything unaware. Countered by anything aware.

Heavy cav counters all non-pole infantry, kind of counters archers and xbows. Kind of.

you might also want to add 2h cav, lance cav and 1 shield cav!
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: the real god emperor on July 11, 2014, 08:39:27 pm
I don't think any cavalry unit counters horse archers, actually the opposite.

Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 11, 2014, 10:32:02 pm
I don't think any cavalry unit counters horse archers, actually the opposite.

Only way melee cavalry counters horse archers is if there is multiple cavalry units going up against the horse archer.  But that kind of defeats the purpose of the guide :P
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Eugen on July 12, 2014, 03:26:33 pm
How can range be counter by shields if the range shoots at others who don't have one. also if the shielder is in his face a good player with range could stomp on him.

Shielder is nearly only class (and heavy cav for second) that can safely charge ranged without having to do the lucky dance and dodge moves. Thats the reason why shielders counter ranged. The melee fight between shielder and archer after the succesful charge is another story in another book.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Enver on July 14, 2014, 10:27:23 pm
Chart Updated still needs work.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Herezy92 on July 18, 2014, 01:44:04 pm
I'm bumping it because tons of new players.
& Chart still need advises.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: BlindGuy on July 18, 2014, 02:05:19 pm
Don't play on EU battle then. You'll be amazed at how many infantry players, in full heavy armor, will run away if they do not outnumber you 5:1.

On NA even the worst of players will just duel you to the death regardless of class or situation. whether it be two archers wasting all round on each other or two cav that lock up in a corner of the map hacking away at each other's horse (and then charging whoever you just dismounted which usually ends in you being dehorsed and continuining the fight on the ground). This is actually one of the funniest and best parts of the NA mentality.

On EU, enemy cav will exclusively aim for your horse from behind and avoid any head-on engagement like a gnat. Pretty sure this is why Team USA dominated the cav tournament, because they simply do not joust each other 1vs1 and only gank. If you stumble into a 1vs3 as infantry and manage to kill a couple of them and avoid the gank, whoeever survives will immediately run away instead of trying to finish the job.

It is generally pathetic, but not surprising, considering the kind of people we know EU cRPG players to be.

Well, we have many French players over here, it sucks but it's LITERALLY in their DNA: there IS a reason that one of the richest and biggest European countries was never domimant for more than 1 generation, and even then Napoleon built his reputation by slaughtering unprepared peasants, pretty much like crpg today: The instant anyone who is actually prepared to fight back starts hitting them, the French run, it has literally been happening for over a millenia now.

That said, the Scands usually fight and die like real men. Tor, for example, is brilliant player, and I would rather stand and fight him than any Herezy, madraada, blackbow example, who will constantly back away, turn and run, try to get outrange hits in, and then immedietly rage quit or rage in chat when he gets easily smashed down by a player who relies on just beating ppl into the earth.

As for the Rus: You really would think they are in the matrix, 100% convinced that dieing ingame will kill them.

I hate fighting San when hes on EU cause of his cheats (I mean, it MUST be cheats, right?) but at least the mofo fights back.

So, TL:DR: We don't run on EU1, just the French and Russians do that. And the scum. But they die to Horse Archers chasing them down and shooting them in the back, so, yeah, there is that.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Herezy92 on July 18, 2014, 02:51:02 pm
(click to show/hide)
:lol:  :lol:
+1 For the laugh you gave me by writing this.  :D Full of non-sense & fake stereotypes, but stereotypes are always funny. :D

I rarely went to NA server, but yes i heard that their servers are much more brutal and less my old friendget than ours.
For once they have something nice ! I respect that. :)
Yes EU_1 is pretty much : Pussy-Land.
And i'm a part of it by running away if i know that i can not win it. :) (but its' still better than being a my old friendchers ranged)

About the Russians :
There are 2 kind of Russians :
 - Brain-less charger (kinda violent & can work pretty well sometimes)
or
 - Commando ranged hiding in bushes till the end of the universe. (apparently, they don't see what's the problem by delaying)

For the Frenchies :
In the defense of Hardraada, (omg me defending Hardrada X_X )i rarely see him running away. ;) Moreover, i seriously think he is laking of awareness.
And yes sometimes he is raging, but well, compared to some scands (erhm G...censored...X) it's insignificant.

For all the other Frenchies it would be nice if you can name those pro runner.
Mostly all frenchies are heavy tincans. STR-build. (@REMEMBER THEIR FUCKING FRENCH HEAVY CAV SPAM ON EU_1  :evil: ) I even don't have in mind a single one mega agiwhore. (Only me i guess)

(click to show/hide)
Edit: What's your ingame name BlindGuy ? :)
FrenchKiss
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Switchtense on July 18, 2014, 02:57:03 pm
Don't play on EU battle then. You'll be amazed at how many infantry players, in full heavy armor, will run away if they do not outnumber you 5:1.

On NA even the worst of players will just duel you to the death regardless of class or situation. whether it be two archers wasting all round on each other or two cav that lock up in a corner of the map hacking away at each other's horse (and then charging whoever you just dismounted which usually ends in you being dehorsed and continuining the fight on the ground). This is actually one of the funniest and best parts of the NA mentality.

On EU, enemy cav will exclusively aim for your horse from behind and avoid any head-on engagement like a gnat. Pretty sure this is why Team USA dominated the cav tournament, because they simply do not joust each other 1vs1 and only gank. If you stumble into a 1vs3 as infantry and manage to kill a couple of them and avoid the gank, whoeever survives will immediately run away instead of trying to finish the job.

It is generally pathetic, but not surprising, considering the kind of people we know EU cRPG players to be.

Bascially summed up why I play on NA1 a lot :D

Especially can't stand archers that try to avoid melee at all cost.


Can anyone create a script that automatically bans you if you do not use your melee weapon every minute or so please?
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: UnholyRolyPoly on July 18, 2014, 03:52:52 pm
I don't think a chart will show the real picture. You have offensive counters and defensive counters and some classes have more than one offensive or defensive counter (everything has a melee defensive counter for eg)..some classes force multiply so having more of them than the enemy effectively reduces their defensive counters effectiveness. You have movement speed, distances to targets, terrain, line of sight, player skill... Ideally we shouldn't be talking in terms of counters too much but classes should have some pro's and cons to keep it interesting. ATM ranged seems to be too much of a hard counter to too many other classes, without much of a hard counter to them that doesn't include shooting projectiles

I think class counters are legit.  But whatever small degree of benefit you get from that base counter is meaningless without skill and tactics.  For example....  Ranged typically counters 2h/polearm.  But if a super agi 2h sneaks around their flank he can chop them to pieces. 

On top of base counters there are tactics.  Your build plays a large role.  You can't just lump all 2h together.  But I understand what the OP was trying to do.  There are 30+ classes in CRPG and he was trying to keep it simple.  I have a heavy shielder.  My build is not designed for dueling but line fighting.  I'm slow but do a lot of damage.  I can hold the line and protect my teammates for the most part.  My primary role is to fight in the front line and attack teammates targets.  I blitz in short waves never going so far that I can be singled out and surrounded because I am extremely slow.  On the flipside I'm outgunned in most dueling situations.  I don't have the athletics or weapon master to compete with most 2h/polearms and must rely on tricks and timing to kill.  I actually win most duels with well placed chambers and lose many of them with mistimed ones lol.  Smiley on the other hand is a fast shielder.  He blitzes far into the enemy formation aggro'ing various targets away from the main fight.  The two of us pair extremely well because I can provide killing power while he provides maneuverability.  We've practiced team switching (old Fallen tactic...  2v2 each person shifts back and fourth between opponents to confuse and separate them) so long that we work as a single entity.  When we are both active and in practice we generally roll x5's all night. 

The same goes for all classes.  I spent 10 gens as a 2h.  I built a 21-24 2h who was a blitzer.  I waited until the infantry was engaged and smashed into the flank slashing and moving from target to target.  And I built various str 2h who would stand in the line with heavy armor to provide killing power at the front.  Throwers are very effective assasins.  After the mass respec I targeted San almost every single round.  Vandal (Carthan Caster) is one of the better thrower/melee hybrids.  He pulls people out of the front by throwing at them and then murders them in cold blood switching his throwing axe to melee mode.  HA's have various roles.  My last HA (before the cav nerf) was 24-15.  I was basically close infantry support.  I couldn't hit anything past 10 yards but I had so many HPs that I could ride behind the inf formation and shoot various targets. 

Each class has a counter class.  And each class has various builds which will change those counters.  A typical shielder vs a pikeman generally wins (unless you are fighting oohillac.)  But and agi polearm will wreck a typical shielder because he can work his way to the side etc.  The swing animations for polearms allow them to get behind your shield from odd angles.

Every time I build a character I look at my clan and see what they need.  I try to build something which provides a benefit so when we fight together we can be more effective.  We always focus on teamwork.  But sadly.... as is the case with most of CRPG clans.... our best players have gone inactive.  Oohillac is no more.  He's studying music and chose RL instead of CRPG (smart move.)  Tears plays once every few months etc etc.  We still have vets like Vandal, Zildj, Vengt, etc.  But it's rare that we all end up online at the same time.  But when we do... we generally win.
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: Bars on July 18, 2014, 09:46:36 pm
If your mind and body in harmony, you can kill everyone

If your skill and luck with you, u can kill everyone

 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: karasu on July 18, 2014, 10:02:31 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: CRPG CLASS COUNTER CHART - WORK IN PROGRESS
Post by: kooktar on July 18, 2014, 10:12:23 pm
Your poll is flawed and is missing the melee counter to crush through: high athletics. When they do the overhead swing, you can run thru them faster than the player is allowed to turn while swinging (lolstab nerf). Thus it leaves you blocking left/right which cant crush through anyways. Repeat this process until they fail to block you and its gg game over.

TLDR:
S key Hero w/ long weapon