cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Ikarus on May 14, 2014, 03:40:40 pm

Title: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Ikarus on May 14, 2014, 03:40:40 pm
GO VOTE OR KINNGRIMM (aka VOTEMAN) WILL FUCKING RIP YOUR SHIT

nah srsly go vote, hate it that our ancestors fought hundreds of years so we have the right to vote and then I see people saying "nah, I´ll pass, nothing will change anyways." GOD I COULD PUNCH EVERYONE WHO FUCKING SAYS THAT. EVERY. TIME.

so vote bitches :D
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Boerenlater on May 14, 2014, 03:59:03 pm
lolvoting for corrupt politicians
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on May 14, 2014, 05:30:21 pm
but they took our jobs

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Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Falka on May 14, 2014, 06:38:26 pm
1:40, "if you vote you have no right to complain".
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 14, 2014, 06:45:03 pm
Funny, but still a retarded argument.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kuujis on May 14, 2014, 06:46:42 pm
1:40, "if you vote you have no right to complain".

Well... if you don't vote - I could not care less about YOUR* complaints.


*By "your" I mean an imaginary smart ass who thinks a comedian has a good answer to vote/not vote dillema, not YOU in particular :P
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Falka on May 14, 2014, 07:07:16 pm
Well... if you don't vote - I could not care less about YOUR* complaints.


*By "your" I mean an imaginary smart ass who thinks a comedian has a good answer to vote/not vote dillema, not YOU in particular :P

I think this speech was supposed to be funny, not smart and serious :P
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 14, 2014, 08:37:01 pm
voting UKIP or Tory for euro election. wonder which one gets me more hate :D
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 14, 2014, 08:38:33 pm
I am interested in why you want to vote either.

edit: let's rise above the hate thingie, I am genuinely interested
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 14, 2014, 08:58:45 pm
Labour couldn't run a piss up in a brewery as they have showed in the last terms of govt and i'm not a liberal. I support a points-based immigration system for people from countries right across the globe – including the EU. I belive Australia etc has the right ideas. The Tories will only really get into gear about Europe if UKIP do very well.

I vote Tory for general election but Ukip cant do too much as euro MPs. (im very euro sceptic)  so those are some basics :D would take too long to go into any real depth


Im probably not the only one either, I expect Ukip and the tories to dominate the euro elections
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: JackieChan on May 14, 2014, 09:01:44 pm
https://www.partipirate.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_%28France%29
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 14, 2014, 09:07:52 pm
Call me an idealist (or a fool) but I think I'm gonna go for Green.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Franke on May 14, 2014, 11:41:47 pm
"if you vote you have no right to complain"

It's the other way around IMHO. By voting and thus taking part in the political process I acquire the right to complain about politics whereas those who refuse to participate have no right to complain at all...
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Leshma on May 15, 2014, 12:00:51 am
Voting means you're responsible. All those who voted for Hitler are partially responsible for his actions. Those who didn't choose him or didn't vote at all are not.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Son Of Odin on May 15, 2014, 01:13:38 am
It's the other way around IMHO. By voting and thus taking part in the political process I acquire the right to complain about politics whereas those who refuse to participate have no right to complain at all...

So I have no right to complain if I choose not to vote for the least bad option? Why should I have to vote for the lesser evil?

Hell yes I have a right to complain even if I don't vote. Too many people vote like the paper is a fucking lotto ticket. Just to gain this magical "right to complain" even if they don't even care who they are voting for.

"I'll vote so I will have a right to complain when they increase energy taxes, lower minimum wages, let my job be moved abroad and fuck me in the ass while the banks shove their cocks in my mouth."

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Christo on May 15, 2014, 01:17:14 am
Hitler

whoa whoa whoa

Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 15, 2014, 10:42:11 am
Voting means you're responsible. All those who voted for Hitler are partially responsible for his actions. Those who didn't choose him or didn't vote at all are not.

Those who don't vote silently accept any possibility. It's like pretending politics don't have any effect on your life.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Prpavi on May 15, 2014, 10:57:44 am
I don't vote but this year I will be taking that sweet EU money, will sit there in the polling station, check ID's, count the votes, there won't be anybody showing up anyways so 50 easy euro, thanks Europe!
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: FleetFox on May 15, 2014, 11:14:09 am
Call me an idealist (or a fool) but I think I'm gonna go for Green.

Same here mate! Down with the Tories!
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: [ptx] on May 15, 2014, 12:34:42 pm
How many of you, voters, are actually really well informed in the decision you are going to make? If you've done your research in picking who to vote for, then good on you. Otherwise you are just making a disinformed vote and i think that is actually worse than not voting at all.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 15, 2014, 12:38:33 pm
Ah balls had to have registered BEFORE the 5th of May for the EU elections.  :cry:
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Leshma on May 15, 2014, 01:59:57 pm
Those who don't vote silently accept any possibility. It's like pretending politics don't have any effect on your life.

That is passing the blame from those directly responsible to those who didn't want to be part of the whole charade. Those who voted for dictator are the ones who put him in power, not those who didn't vote at all.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Boerenlater on May 15, 2014, 02:03:44 pm
Rightwing becuz I hate illegal immigrants and the rights the EU provides them (like Italy taking them in instead of sending the boats back to Tunesia).
Call me nazee.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 02:06:19 pm
nah srsly go vote, hate it that our ancestors fought hundreds of years so we have the right to vote
Bahahahahaha.... ahahaha.

Do you actually believe that?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 15, 2014, 02:10:53 pm
Bahahahahaha.... ahahaha.

Do you actually believe that?
Care to explain a bit more please ? :)

Fighting for the right of vote is different than voting for corrupted/useless policians.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Christo on May 15, 2014, 02:12:30 pm
Fighting for the right of vote is different than voting for corrupted/useless policians.

But what else can you vote for?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 15, 2014, 02:16:18 pm
That is passing the blame from those directly responsible to those who didn't want to be part of the whole charade. Those who voted for dictator are the ones who put him in power, not those who didn't vote at all.

There's no blame. Just the fact that voting for the lesser evil is better than not voting at all.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Leshma on May 15, 2014, 02:17:36 pm
In my country situation on that front is really bad, you can't even imagine how much. But I voted, for a guy who is acting like dictator. Currently he is doing some stuff Mao did in China...

Why I voted for him? Because I expect to see another revolution in two years and I'm going to be part of that revolution.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 15, 2014, 02:17:41 pm
But what else can you vote for?
Sadly, almost nothing.  :(
But its a different topic.
I don't know for all european history, but for my country, YES our ancester fought for this idea.
We had more than 10years of terror and chaos just in order to try to make this idea possible. (And i am not saying it worked)

EDIT: and it's only 100years later that a real democracy has been created.

Want to know a bit more about what happened ?
here a link for you : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 02:18:05 pm
Care to explain a bit more please ? :)

Fighting for the right of vote is different than voting for corrupted/useless policians.
Sure is, so who fought for the right to vote for hundreds of years? Which army?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 15, 2014, 02:26:47 pm
Sure is, so who fought for the right to vote for hundreds of years? Which army?

I hope it's not a serious question :)

The "king's-subjects" fought to become citizens. They were also followed by a part of the army who refused to shot on the populace.
At least, it's what happened in my country.

May i ask you, from which country do you from?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 15, 2014, 02:30:23 pm
In my country situation on that front is really bad, you can't even imagine how much. But I voted, for a guy who is acting like dictator. Currently he is doing some stuff Mao did in China...

Why I voted for him? Because I expect to see another revolution in two years and I'm going to be part of that revolution.

So you intentionally vote for the wrong guy just to push a revolution ?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on May 15, 2014, 02:30:38 pm
Care to explain a bit more please ? :)

Fighting for the right of vote is different than voting for corrupted/useless policians.

Sure is, so who fought for the right to vote for hundreds of years? Which army?

I hope it's not a serious question :)

The "king's-subjects" fought to become citizens. They were also followed by a part of the army who refused to shot on the populace.
At least, it's what happened in my country.

May i ask you, from which country do you from?

Looking forward to this! I hope Xant is "in the zone" today! Boy'o'boy!
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 02:31:28 pm
I hope it's not a serious question :)

The "king's-subjects" fought to become citizens. They were also followed by a part of the army who refused to shot on the populace.
At least, it's what happened in my country.

May i ask you, from which country do you from?
It's a rhetorical question. Nobody has ever fought for "the right to vote." Ever.

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Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 15, 2014, 02:33:30 pm
What did the suffragettes do ?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 02:34:22 pm
What did the suffragettes do ?
Certainly didn't fight.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 15, 2014, 02:35:59 pm
True, but their agenda wasn't taking over like you are implying all revolutions are about.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Leshma on May 15, 2014, 02:39:29 pm
So you intentionally vote for the wrong guy just to push a revolution ?

They are all wrong guys (and girls), no good choice whatsoever. Every single one is a major thief, but this guy has some crazy ideas worthy of a true tyrant. Doesn't really matter, situation is so shitty in here that having one crazy mofo in the power won't hurt at all. But it will be amusing.

Edit: Like in nature, this forest is so sick there is no point trying to cure it anymore. It has to burn to the last straw.

Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 15, 2014, 02:40:15 pm
It's a rhetorical question. Nobody has ever fought for "the right to vote." Ever.

(click to show/hide)
.... :? :?
Nice drawing...
Apart this very deep and well thinking statement, it's seems that you don't want to really explain your point.

It's interesting to discover that someone knows so well the history of all european countries.
You should go and teach it to everybody :)
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 02:46:33 pm
True, but their agenda wasn't taking over like you are implying all revolutions are about.
Nope, that's not what I'm implying.

Taking the word 'fight' a little literally there.

Besides, what about people who served in the Roman army to become citizens and earn rights including the right to vote?
Or slave uprisings, peasant revolts or other civil wars centred on freedom and rights (such as voting) or parliament vs the crown.

People fight for everything.
Roman legionnaires did not fight for the rights to vote, good god. Nobody fucking joined the legion because they wanted the awesome-cool ability to vote. It was a side benefit.

There have been no slave uprisings just to vote, no peasant revolts just to vote, no civil wars just to vote.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 02:59:24 pm
Auxiliaries wanted to be citizens, voting was one of the perks on offer.

Why would individual people side with Parliament instead of the King in a civil war if not in the belief that parliament would give them a say and the King wouldnt?
Because they benefit more from siding with the king. Easy.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 03:03:41 pm
Benefits such as.... voting?
Such as voting, yep.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 15, 2014, 03:04:35 pm
Roman legionnaires did not fight for the rights to vote, good god. Nobody fucking joined the legion because they wanted the awesome-cool ability to vote. It was a side benefit.
Yes maybe, but who knows the real motivations of the guys who joined the Legion.
They all had their own reasons. (being recognized, be free after, be able to participate in the town-life when they come back, fight, kill, money, survive, etc...)

Quote
There have been no slave uprisings just to vote, no peasant revolts just to vote, no civil wars just to vote.
And again how the hell can you be so sure about everything you say.
You take everything so literally, the desire to have the right of vote do not comes alone. It's come with the desire of freedom, of justice, of equality, and many more...
It's like the reasons of revolutions. It's a global situation in a dedicated time period which will make it happen.

And finally, i wont speak about other countries because i don't know well their History.
But i can speak about what i know.
And i can tell you that, for my country, YES peoples fought for the right of vote+desire of justice+equality+etc etc...
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: [ptx] on May 15, 2014, 03:07:46 pm
Are you American? Always assumed you were but 'Finnish Pony' always confused me
He is Mongolian.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Angantyr on May 15, 2014, 03:09:54 pm
Revolutions of 1848 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848)

Led to reaffirmation of the principles of the Magna Carta (basic human rights), and in many ways the modern European wellfare state.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 03:11:22 pm
And i can tell you that, for my country, YES peoples fought for the right of vote+desire of justice+equality+etc etc...
No, they didn't. People don't get out of their beds and decide to die for abstract ideas.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 15, 2014, 03:11:45 pm
Herezy. Never EVER try to discuss or argue with Xant. It's pointless.
Understood.

I stop right now then :)

I'm still curious to know from where he comes.

EDIT :
No, they didn't. People don't get out of their beds and decide to die for abstract ideas.
Okey WarLord, i see what you mean :)
Pointless :lol:
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 03:12:38 pm
Understood.

I stop right now then :)

I'm still curious to know from where he comes.
I guess your lacking observation skills explain your naïve views on human psyche.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: IR_Kuoin on May 15, 2014, 03:15:07 pm
Not part of EU masterrace.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Angantyr on May 15, 2014, 03:15:48 pm
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 15, 2014, 03:25:08 pm
HESKEYTIMEEEEEEEEEE
Do not argue with him, do like me or it's going to be a waste of time, just look at the last post he wrote to me  :lol:
I guess your lacking observation skills explain your naïve views on human psyche.
Said the guy who explain everything in all his posts by one sentence as THE HOLY affirmation.
I have nothing more to say than : let him speak alone. :)
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 03:25:55 pm
It's only abstract to us now because we're used to it and there's very little variation between one political party and another. When it's something you don't have/never experienced before you want it.

And people will shoot their own brother for something they dont have.
Nope, those concepts are always abstract.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Teeth on May 15, 2014, 03:30:18 pm
How many of you, voters, are actually really well informed in the decision you are going to make? If you've done your research in picking who to vote for, then good on you. Otherwise you are just making a disinformed vote and i think that is actually worse than not voting at all.
Expecting people to cast well-informed votes is unreasonable because there is no rational incentive to become well-informed. A single vote will never have any noticable effect on your circumstances so why would anyone spend time and effort on casting a perfect vote? A big flaw of democracy as a system if you ask me, unreasonable expectations towards the populace, leading to less and less accurate representation of the aggregated individual needs in the government.

For EU elections all the effort I am willing to expend on my vote is using my knowledge of party ideology to make a choice and then scanning through this party's program for EU to reassure myself that they are a good choice. I shall be voting D66, a Dutch progressive right wing party, looking to improve Europe's efficiency, transparency and working towards increased integration. Breaking through dividing lines of humanity like race, religion and nationality to realize we are all humans after all. That is the only way humanity is ever going to get anywhere if you ask me.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 03:31:23 pm
It is refreshing to meet someone who is always so certain.
It comes with knowledge.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: FleetFox on May 15, 2014, 04:07:30 pm
No, they didn't. People don't get out of their beds and decide to die for abstract ideas.

I'm afraid they do, and you do those people (who have voluntarily put their lives on the line for a cause they believe will help the betterment of man kind) a great disservice in ignoring the sacrifices they make so that you can live with the many freedoms you have today; relative to the past. (universal suffrage etc)

Believe it or not some people are actually selfless and will sacrifice themselves for others if need be.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 04:13:45 pm
I'm afraid they do, and you do those people (who have voluntarily put their lives on the line for a cause they believe will help the betterment of man kind) a great disservice in ignoring the sacrifices they make so that you can live with the many freedoms you have today; relative to the past. (universal suffrage etc)

Believe it or not some people are actually selfless and will sacrifice themselves for others if need be.
No, they don't. Humans are apes. Most of these misconceptions you and others have are a result of an incomplete understanding of the aforementioned fact. People are selfish.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: FleetFox on May 15, 2014, 04:22:59 pm
No, they don't. Humans are apes. Most of these misconceptions you and others have are a result of an incomplete understanding of the aforementioned fact. People are selfish.

Ok you may buy into the whole Hobbes's State of Nature approach which I do appreciate. But on the other hand we are different to other animals like Apes, simply because we have the capacity to choose not to be selfish.

Anyway when I think of the future, the perception I take is that the Greens/ left wing parties are our best hopes with dealing against Climate Change and future problems as a result (e.g. potential conflict causing much more immigration North into Europe). This laissez faire capitalist system has its days numbered, there is only so much shit the people and the planet can take.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 15, 2014, 04:24:04 pm
Ok guys I'm sure somewhere in the history of this forum we might find a post where Xant says Humans aren't apes! Go find it quick!
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 15, 2014, 04:25:26 pm
Humans are selfless because they are apes too.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Angantyr on May 15, 2014, 04:25:51 pm
It goes both ways. Any action can be attributed to selfish ambition, schools of modern psychology claim (which is a pretty straightforward exercise in logic), but that doesn't mean any action is necessarily without inherent selflessness. Individual and group thinking are not so easily seperated, and humans can sacrifice themselves for the group, like we see in most any war or conflict, a selfish and selfless act altogether, parents being selfless towards their offspring etc.

Anyway, most gains from say revolutions are not just abstract ideas but confer very solid individual rights to people, so as not be mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Leshma on May 15, 2014, 04:34:04 pm
Ok guys I'm sure somewhere in the history of this forum we might find a post where Xant says Humans aren't apes! Go find it quick!

His best work so far has been denying holocaust.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 15, 2014, 04:48:45 pm
His best work so far has been denying holocaust.
Really? :)
Okey,  good to know. Thanks.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
*Grabb something from his pocket*                   
 :arrow: :arrow:  ....Connection to the troll detector...                           |
... status: Online
... Analysing subject: ....Xant
.... loading...
...ALERT
Troll detected.
Action to counter?
... pending....
[Chose your action!]
--------------------------
Go write the action you want NAOW :)
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Moncho on May 15, 2014, 05:05:02 pm
Action selected: Feed the Xant.
And what, oh mighty all-knowing Xant, do people die for?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Leshma on May 15, 2014, 05:11:53 pm
Maybe devs should change word troll into xant. Just like they did with gtx :lol:

I'm going to UT forums and will ask politely to rename last boss Xan to Xant.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 05:28:27 pm
Action selected: Feed the Xant.
And what, oh mighty all-knowing Xant, do people die for?
IF YOU'RE ALIVE, YOU CAN EAT BACON. THEREFORE, WE MUST DIE TO PRESERVE THE AMOUNT OF BACON LEFT ON EARTH.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on May 15, 2014, 05:59:06 pm
.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 06:02:23 pm
Do you know how when you first tasted human flesh you said "this is just like pork"?

Vegetarians will be made into bacon.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on May 15, 2014, 06:04:07 pm
.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Moncho on May 15, 2014, 06:05:02 pm
Yeah but after a few meals you start realising they are quite different, human meat tastes so much better.
And I would not eat vegetarian human meat, they just lack in a certain quality of the flavour.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 06:05:52 pm
You might think differently after a couple of weeks of no bacon.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: _schizo321437 on May 15, 2014, 06:12:18 pm
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Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Moncho on May 15, 2014, 06:21:09 pm
Weeks without bacon?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 23, 2014, 08:05:14 pm
So UKIP did incredibly well in the council elections getting circa 25% of the votes. I expect them to do the same in the EU elections

his rhetoric (like this) speaks to the british public it seems. We dont want closer integration with Europe we want less and he knows it and makes it work for him.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 23, 2014, 09:26:23 pm
What I found more depressing than UKIP's success is the face of a lot of the British public. Fucking xenophobes.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Ikarus on May 23, 2014, 09:31:07 pm
Can somebody explain me why the UK wants to get out of the EU so badly?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 23, 2014, 09:42:47 pm
Pride and nationalism.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Teeth on May 23, 2014, 09:50:50 pm
Backwardness and xenophobia.
Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 23, 2014, 10:02:47 pm
Yeah call me biased and blinkered but multiculturalism is actually part of what makes England a desirable place to live.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Ikarus on May 23, 2014, 10:14:02 pm
but there must be more behind it :I
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 23, 2014, 10:24:56 pm
Yeah call me biased and blinkered but multiculturalism is actually part of what makes England a desirable place to live.

I don't think UKIP voters see it that way.

but there must be more behind it :I

It's a tradition in the UK too, which retains its memories of a colonial empire and tries to pretend those are more than memories. It's people that live in the 19th century, oblivious of the reality of the world we live in.

I'll personally vote liberal, of course. I would rank the other parties in that order:
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 23, 2014, 11:14:39 pm
Fixed that for you.


yup pretty much want a federal Europe or fuck you eh teeth?
We didn't vote for a European union the last referendum was for an economic union. Is it really so wrong to ask the people if they actually want to be apart of where this is heading or is that too democratic for the EU?


Basically Immigration is a massive concern for a majority of British which is why the votes go to ukip for this election but wont for the General one. Nearly everyone ive spoken to wants a points based immigration system like other countries so students and qualified people who are in demand can come like australia. Freedom for everyone to come in from Europe without a penny doesn't go down well. Un elected officials making laws for all europe angers people even more.

From what i can gather most people want a chance to have a say on if they want to leave a union but keep an economic community. We don't want laws dictated to us by other countries we dont want to make a United States of Europe.

Call us xenophobic or whatever but generally people have no problem with people who come here to work and learn english (Indians etc get on great here) but people who come here to claim benefits and ask for council houses etc angers the public.



TL:DR we dont want europe giving us laws and these are protest and angry votes for pretty unimportant elections. General elections will see UKIP drop a lot.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Teeth on May 23, 2014, 11:45:40 pm
Well, I merely translated the words pride and nationalism to what they mean in my eyes without reflecting on larger anti-EU sentiments. There is definitely a huge bag of understandable criticism that you can throw at the EU, however voting for the UKIP definitely makes you a backwards xenophobe. The party program is just a nauseating nationalistic and shortsighted shitstain like all of the populist nationalistic parties popping up accross Europe.

The sooner we break through pointless divides like religion, race and nationality and realize we are all humans of similar value, the quicker humanity is going to actually get somewhere. I believe EU is a good step towards achieving that. I do want a federal Europe, hell I want a federal world, but we aren't ready for either yet.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 23, 2014, 11:54:40 pm

yup pretty much want a federal Europe or fuck you eh teeth?
We didn't vote for a European union the last referendum was for an economic union. Is it really so wrong to ask the people if they actually want to be apart of where this is heading or is that too democratic for the EU?

You are being asked right now, or is that too much democracy ?

The heart of the "problem" is exactly what that idiot was saying about Van Rompuy and Belgium. Belgium isn't a nation-state, it's a multicultural federal state. UKIP supporters think a nation-state is a good thing. It's mind-boggling how in the 21st century people can live with such ideas. I mean, have you even opened a history book in your life ? Why are British people "we" ? They aren't your friends. They aren't worth more in your eyes than anybody else, unless you are a manipulated retard.

Basically Immigration is a massive concern for a majority of British which is why the votes go to ukip for this election but wont for the General one. Nearly everyone ive spoken to wants a points based immigration system like other countries so students and qualified people who are in demand can come like australia. Freedom for everyone to come in from Europe without a penny doesn't go down well. Un elected officials making laws for all europe angers people even more.

From what i can gather most people want a chance to have a say on if they want to leave a union but keep an economic community. We don't want laws dictated to us by other countries we dont want to make a United States of Europe.

Call us xenophobic or whatever but generally people have no problem with people who come here to work and learn english (Indians etc get on great here) but people who come here to claim benefits and ask for council houses etc angers the public.



TL:DR we dont want europe giving us laws and these are protest and angry votes for pretty unimportant elections. General elections will see UKIP drop a lot.

So, basic anti-immigrant rhetoric.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 24, 2014, 12:07:52 am
if basic anti immigration is only wanting immigrants who contribute to the country and society and not ones who come here to claim benefits then yes im anti immigrant? If i want to move to Australia or Canada to live and work then i damn well better have the means to do so and the qualifications to succeed, I cant just turn and say let me in im sure ill find some kind of work. why should the UK be any different just because we are in Europe?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tore on May 24, 2014, 12:28:07 am
Whats wrong with not wanting to be a part of EU? EU isn't working and isn't doing anyone good. I hope we leave EEA and Schengen asap.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 24, 2014, 02:08:56 am
All I care about is that the UK doesn't leave the EU and invalidate the worth of my British Citizenship. Frankly the best bit of the UK is that if you're a citizen you don't have to live there.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Vovka on May 24, 2014, 05:38:32 am
Add Putin and Vote for him  :P
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Ikarus on May 24, 2014, 10:58:06 am
Warning: large wall of text, the conclusion is at the very bottom if you feel lazy :)

Wow, thanks for all the answers, even HESKEYTIME bothered to answer me via crpg-message board although he´s muted

(click to show/hide)

So if I see it right, the UK mostly wants to get out of the EU because of regulations, immigrant issues and national pride (which isn´t always a bad thing imo).

The EU is a large political and economic experiment and all in all it has worked well so far. For me it is one step of getting closer to a international thinking world and that´s a good thing (although I sound like a fucking hippie here *eyesroll*).
Of course the regulations aren´t always great, but as a union, we have to help other countries when their politics fuck up and/or go bankrupt (greece *cough cough*). For helping countries and beind sorta "international social", we receive massive economical and trade benefits inside of the EU.

Quote
...they want to leave a union but keep an economic community
No offense, but this is why a lot of people see the UK as a freeloader in the EU; you want a piece of the cake but not do anything for it or take any responsibilities, that´s not gonna work.

Quote
EU isn't working and isn't doing anyone good.
A lot of ppl say that in Austria. They forget that, without the economical benefits, we would have been bankrupt like, TEN times. Schilling was a lovely currency and warms the heart of nostalgics (mine too :)), but it was weak as fuck. We couldn´t sit on our fat asses and rant about tiny problems without the EU today. :lol:

The party which currently gains more power and is against EU is the FPÖ here. In a nutshell, the FPÖ is a bunch of corrupt, lying and extremely racist/xenophob dumb monkeys, who are lucky to know what a lot of people want to hear, sadly they have some smart (and dirty) moves to get votes (f.e. bribes or inviting people for a lunch with OUR money).
They get a lot of votes because people like to rant about some issues and errors the EU made (small, useless regulations (size of pickles etc), bigger, economical regulations and mostly regulations which benefit immigrants; but the people don´t think about the massive benefits we received because nobody likes talks about the good things; ranting about bad things is way more fun (and part of the austrian spirit, it´s called "raunzen")
(click to show/hide)
There´s a huge hate against immigrants and foreigners in Austria, since we also have our problems with gangs going to Austria for some kind of "stealing/begging trip" (mostly romanians/bulgarians; thank god there´s less hate against turks than 10 years before[I couldn´t think of an Austria without Kebap anymore :D])).
The mistake they make is that they then think that EVERY foreigner is a burglar and criminal, although we also have a lot of good foreign students/workers. As if the government doesn´t try to sort out the workers from the criminals/beggars *eyesroll*

FPÖ´s fav slogans are stuff like "daham statt islam" (home instead of islam), "eu ist dumm" (eu is stupid) and other retardness like releasing racist/chauvinistic comics or making ridiculous raps. I mean LOOK AT THAT RETARD OH GOD, does anyone wants THIS monkey to take care of your money/health/education?? A lot of people seem to want that -.-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAEP08ps-JM

Farage is a great stand-up comedian and probably represents well what most of the UK wants, still, you can say that in a less asshole-ish way. Making fun of people who work hard to keep a system up makes me want to slap him in his face :/ But I get the message that he really wants to get out of the EU badly.

ok in a nutshell: UK mostly wants to get out of the EU because of regulations, immigrant issues and national pride. They can if they want to, I just hope that they won´t regret it and can keep their economics up.
Correct me if I missed something.

btw thanks a lot for the answers!!
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 24, 2014, 11:37:55 am
Quote
No offense, but this is why a lot of people see the UK as a freeloader in the EU; you want a piece of the cake but not do anything for it or take any responsibilities, that´s not gonna work.

The question is what exactly do we gain? We put in a lot of cash etc but i see nothing great that the EU actually gives us except rules and regulations. The only thing i can see good about the EU is free trade etc. I cant see any other real benefits. Unless im mistaken which is ofc very possible with such a massive bureaucratic system. Not saying this is accurate just an interesting article even it it does ignore most other parts of the EU

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2052433/Chart-How-does-Britain-pay-EU-does-back.html

Britain's EU contributions chart

(click to show/hide)

Quote
Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year  of membership.
In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back  in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.
Each nation’s contribution is based mainly on its Gross National Income, a measure of its economic output and earnings from overseas. The budget is spent on a range of projects to do with agriculture, fisheries, social projects and other Brussels subsidies.
Britain’s contribution figure would have been even higher had it not been for Margaret Thatcher’s tough stance in 1984, when she famously negotiated a rebate on the basis  that the vast bulk of EU spending went on agricultural subsidies and Britain received a far lower proportion of this than other nations.


I would like opinions on what others like about the EU rather than just screaming OMG XENOPHOBIC RACIST YOUR STUPID etc. How about a real post with reasons instead of crap like this

Quote
UKIP supporters think a nation-state is a good thing. It's mind-boggling how in the 21st century people can live with such ideas. I mean, have you even opened a history book in your life ? Why are British people "we" ? They aren't your friends. They aren't worth more in your eyes than anybody else, unless you are a manipulated retard.

just because someone doesn't hold the same views as you doesn't make them a manipulated retard get out of your own ass and maybe post why you think its stupid?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 24, 2014, 11:40:30 am
When something is wrong, it's always easier to find an easy target and throw all shit to him.
Making him guilty of everything is what humans prefers because it's the easiest way.
This is how the extremist become strong.

The over way is much harder and requires much more thinking, intellect, global world understanding, etc....
And of course EU has some troubles, but these who thinks that leaving EU will solv their problems are going to shot a ball in their foot. (especially with the world-globalization)
(click to show/hide)

EDIT: i do not like our current EU system, which is made of bureaucrats and illegitimate members, but it's not a reason to leave EU.
We must change it, not leaving it.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 24, 2014, 11:55:42 am
Double post (sorry for this)
Quote from: Osiris
The question is what exactly do we gain? We put in a lot of cash etc but i see nothing great that the EU actually gives us except rules and regulations.
- The Europe of Energy (buying the whole energy europeans needs at one, to have much cheaper price. And same for OIL)
- The Europe of Defense. (if all countries support a small part of EU defense it will cost much less for all of us)
- The Europe of Financial regulation (I'm not a fan of US financial system :) )
- The Europe of Development (we don't know it enough but European Bank is supporting a lot of projects/new constructions. (hang around in your town, and check the new construction, many of these new projects received an important help of EU bank))
- The Europe of Diplomacy (acting as one to have more impact)
- The Europe of Human rights
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 24, 2014, 12:02:10 pm
The Europe of Human rights is horrible. The quicker we get rid of that act the better. EU telling us not allowing prisoners to vote is breaking their human rights? Making the UK unable to deport criminals and terrorists. European Courts should not be able to over rule UK courts. Defense is hmm well doesn't seem to do much anyway :D Financial regulation is a bone of contention in London at least the rest im not sure about would have to look into it
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 24, 2014, 12:11:36 pm
How is that "basic anti-immigrant rhetoric"?

Every major German city, especially Berlin, struggles with the dozens of romanians and bulgarians that come here every month (with their whole family, of course) just to get child benefits and social welfare. Only thing that makes this possible is EU and it's laws.
It's simple facts that a big majority of those people comes here to get welfare checks, even if they live on the street or in ailing buildings under bad conditions, because with the welfare money they still live a far better life than in their home country.
Some of them want to work, of course, but almost none of them gets work, because they don't speak German and most of them lack any kind of education or apprenticeship.

I can't condemn them for coming here, if "our" EU laws allow it. If I would be on their place, I'd come too. But, the overwhelming majority of immigration happening into european countries like Germany does not benefit the economy or society at all. Most immigrants (I'm not talking about those already living here for several generations, but those arriving nowadays) only extract money from the welfare state system but give little to nothing in return.
It's a failure of the national politics of the single countries and a failure of the whole system " EU ".

inb4 Molly calls me a nazi: This whole issue is and was discussed in many German talkshows on state-run television aka ARD and ZDF and also on several talkshows on privat tv. I take what I say from several of those shows where politicians, professors, society-experts, sociologists and so on where discussing immigration and other linked topics.
The thing with romanians and bulgarians comign for welfare was from a woman in a high position in Berlins city administration, she just was amazingly honest (and was called right-winged-minded by leftist politicians for it, oh the irony).

First, to claim immigrants are just there for the welfare is populist and xenophobic.
Second, maybe you wouldn't mind immigrants if the welfare system was suited to the situation. It's the same issue once again. Nationalists think this is the 19th century and countries can live in isolation. Well no, you can't.

The question is what exactly do we gain? We put in a lot of cash etc but i see nothing great that the EU actually gives us except rules and regulations. The only thing i can see good about the EU is free trade etc. I cant see any other real benefits. Unless im mistaken which is ofc very possible with such a massive bureaucratic system. Not saying this is accurate just an interesting article even it it does ignore most other parts of the EU

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2052433/Chart-How-does-Britain-pay-EU-does-back.html

Britain's EU contributions chart

(click to show/hide)

I don't think the reason the UK is in the EU is to get cash. The EU isn't a money printer, it's an organization. In fact the UK benefits from all the other things the EU does, collectively with the other members. To think of it as a zero sum game where some countries pay money and some others receive money is a complete mis-representation. Case in point, we don't loldevaluate against each other's currency, we don't have a pandemonium of varying national regulations stifling business, we can move around freely, and everybody has a say in it. Take Switzerland, for example. The Swiss industry is de facto following EU regulations, even though they don't have much say about it. Even more important, the Swiss bank secrecy bullshit has been largely dealt with, thanks to the EU.

I would like opinions on what others like about the EU rather than just screaming OMG XENOPHOBIC RACIST YOUR STUPID etc. How about a real post with reasons instead of crap like this

just because someone doesn't hold the same views as you doesn't make them a manipulated retard get out of your own ass and maybe post why you think its stupid?

It's stupid because a nation-state organization cannot deal with 21st century problems like tax evasion and climate change. It's stupid because history already shown it's stupid.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Herezy92 on May 24, 2014, 12:14:26 pm
The Europe of Human rights is horrible. The quicker we get rid of that act the better. EU telling us not allowing prisoners to vote is breaking their human rights? Making the UK unable to deport criminals and terrorists. European Courts should not be able to over rule UK courts. Defense is hmm well doesn't seem to do much anyway :D Financial regulation is a bone of contention in London at least the rest im not sure about would have to look into it

I don't consider UK as real member of EU.
For me, it's a member with a special statut. So, your situation is a bit different. (not sharing shengen, not sharing €, etc...)

For the defense, at the moment, it's mostly France & Great Britain doing the job, and it cost a lot.

For the human rights, if you think Human rights are just about prisonners (which i don't give a fuck :D ) you are wrong^^  it's much wider than this.

For the economy, you can not imagine how the free-trade boost the inside exchange in Europe.(no more tax at borders, same money = no more tax transfer)

But i'm not saying that European Union has no problems, we have tons of problems, and as i said, we must change/fix it, and not leave it. (unless if you like French-retreat act) :D
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 24, 2014, 12:17:45 pm
Well i said i wanted a referendum and that will happen if the tories win and if they can re negotiate. But plz vibe show me this history that makes countries stupid and that we must all belong to one state.


Quote
For the human rights, if you think Human rights are just about prisonners (which i don't give a fuck :D ) you are wrong^^  it's much wider than this.

It is much wider yes but it still needs a massive overhaul imo
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 24, 2014, 12:22:26 pm
Well i said i wanted a referendum and that will happen if the tories win and if they can re negotiate. But plz vibe show me this history that makes countries stupid and that we must all belong to one state.
The fall of numerous small states over the millennia of human existence. The rise of larger states.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 24, 2014, 12:26:12 pm
and yet we have more smaller states now than for a long time? I can see we are going nowhere tho :D People like vibe just insult and look down on anyone with a different opinion, They are superior in intellect to everyone else. Ive met them before and i just try to ignore them now.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 24, 2014, 12:41:00 pm
More smaller states? Where and what scale do you mean?

Edit: globally I think the number of states globally is decreasing.

Another edit: thanks for the info Osiris, very interesting.
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Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 24, 2014, 12:49:53 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_the_1950s   1950 there was 99 widely recognized sovereign states

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_the_2010s  2010s there was 195

most recent country i think is south sudan with Scotland due to vote for it soon. The world isnt moving towards fewer larger states it seems to be doing quite the opposite

http://geography.about.com/cs/countries/a/newcountries.htm

link easier than the crap i posted :D
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Overdriven on May 24, 2014, 01:01:18 pm
Biggest mistake we ever made was turning our back on the commonwealth in favor of the EEC. People in the UK never voted for anything remotely like the EU and what it has grown into to. At the time it was simply a vote to join a common market. The transition to the EU was something entirely political and has never been popular with people in the UK, particularly as the decision was never presented to the people.

Problem is, transitioning back to stronger ties with the commonwealth will be a lot more difficult after we favoured Europe originally.

Still, the decision should lie with the everyday person in the UK and I would welcome a referendum.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 24, 2014, 02:32:01 pm
Next stop: Super-combine Commonwealth with EU
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Moncho on May 24, 2014, 03:09:00 pm
The thing about big and small states is a cyclic one imo, you have big empires/nations that conglomerate loads of smaller ones, that grow and become bigger and eventually rot and disintegrate into smaller components. The bigger a nation is, the harder it is for people to agree, and nationalism (meant as in the preference for your immediate surrounding area, be it a region, country or whatever it happens to be called at the time) has and will always be a big obstacle towards bigger entities, which works for companies because it is a pyramidal system, but cannot work for countries with democracy because you won't get people to agree on most things.

Another point that the EU has done is bringing countries that had historically been at odds with each other in common. I am not sure about this, but before 1945 I don't think there has been a period longer than 30-40 years without wars between the major states of western Europe, and by trading instead of invading, the EU is trying to help with that.

Also about the regions that are trying to split (Scotland and Catalonia I know something about, there may be more), they are attempting to split from the current state to attempt to join the EU with the status of member state, instead of just part of one, so it is not entirely towards splitting.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Leshma on May 24, 2014, 03:58:22 pm
Well i said i wanted a referendum and that will happen if the tories win and if they can re negotiate. But plz vibe show me this history that makes countries stupid and that we must all belong to one state.

Last week my shitty one nation country went through disaster. It was inevitable but still we weren't prepared and now we have no means to fix the country. Old country, federal country which wasn't nation based was able to deal with similar situation much better and actually repair the country. Yugoslavia (federal country) was much better in every way than combination of modern countries that were part of Yugoslavia. There are all shitty (including Slovenia) and can't defend themselves from any threat. Also Yugoslavia was communist country, which is a huge malus (because planned economy sucks ass), if it wasn't communist but more like Norway it would be couple times stronger.

Now back to your country. Reason why Great Britain was great empire is slavery and exploitation of colonies. Not because you're especially awesome or capable compared to other countries of similar scale.

Reason why USA is great country are IMMIGRANTS, even today. If USA was populated only by the likes of AntiBlitz, it would become another Russia in no time. What fuels that country are capable immigrants that come from less fortunate places. Every country has to go through decadence and native population is the first to fail for that trap.

Reason why foreigners take your jobs is not because they are evil enitity. They take your jobs because in the meantime those jobs have become low qualified jobs. You can protect your citizens with isolation, but that won't work in the long run. If average british citizen was an IT expert or had expertise in some other field crucial for current state of British economy, you can be damn sure very few illegal immigrants would be able to fill his spot. But he just like any other common man, likes to drink bear and be lazy dude most of his time.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Ikarus on May 24, 2014, 05:10:42 pm
Quote
They take your jobs because in the meantime those jobs have become low qualified jobs.
Reminds me of a street interview, where some guy said that foreigners take all the jobs. The reporter asked, if he´d work as a trashman or newsman and he replied "Nah I could never do that". Speaking of "taking all the jobs", pff :rolleyes:

Ah, I got some voice in my head, coming from the void

HESKEYTIME
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Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Teeth on May 24, 2014, 07:11:44 pm
Britain's EU contributions chart

(click to show/hide)
This is exactly one of those demagogic and fallacious arguments that Nigel Farage and for example Geert Wilders in my country rely on to get support from the ignorant. This is not a good argument. International organizations are not an investment, you don't give money to the EU and then later the EU gives you a bigger bag of money back. The UK is a member of dozens of international organisations and very few of them would have a positive balance, so should the UK leave the UN for example as well then? The only things this graph looks at for returns are EU subsidies to the UK, completely discounting 90% of the other benefits that the EU can potentially offer.

Here is just a list of the top of my head:

Now these are only benefits for the economy, which leaves out some other extremely important things. Things I find so important that I wouldn't even mind if it cost my country money. Things like security, environment, human rights, energy security, global influence and the spread of liberal ideas. Despite my little list, I do not dare to claim that the UK has benefitted economically from their membership of the EU, though I think it is very plausible. What I do dare to claim is that the any arguments that have been presented by parties like the UKIP do not at all prove the opposite. It is extremely difficult, if not impossible to measure whether membership has been beneficial, because the EU has had a very diffuse impact on many aspects. The way they measured it in this article is utter bullshit.

Edited because I was being unnecessarily snidey, apologies.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 24, 2014, 07:34:24 pm
I did say "Not saying this is accurate just an interesting article even it it does ignore most other parts of the EU" and the fact i never said i was voting for ukip just that i want a referendum on Europe and a real debate on change.

Liberal ideals well spreading them depends on which ideals you are talking about, Human rights.. well Europe might respect it and its court but it is thoroughly despised by UK politicians and the media and is one of the reasons a lot of people dislike europe

and interesting article on Britians relationship with the court
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/dec/22/britain-european-court-human-rights

some main part

Quote
Part of Britain's attitude can be explained simply by a different conception of the law. In continental Europe, judges – guardians of written constitutions – routinely overrule politicians. In the UK, parliament rules: primary legislation cannot be questioned by judges.
Partly too, it stems from a few high-profile recent cases that have not gone the government's way: the court's initial refusal, for example, to allow the deportation to Jordan of Abu Qatada, and its insistence that it is wrong to deny all prisoners, in every circumstance, a right to vote.
Stuff like that even if its only a tiny tiny % does not go down well

but for the record imo the UKIP vote is a protest vote in the relatively unimportant european elections. They are there to show the main parties that Europe and immigration is a massive concern to the public and needs to be addressed. Labour and the Lib dems shouted Racist at anyone who questioned mass immigration and the Tories seem to side step Europe mostly.

My personal views are that the European Court should not be able to over rule laws made by our elected government and that our immigration should be more like Australia with a points system. Those are my only two major gripes with the EU and i have nothing against people like plumbers/doctors/engineers etc who come here to work.


damn edits while i was typing :D
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Teeth on May 24, 2014, 07:40:06 pm
Quote from that article:
Britain has been obliged to take greater care of vulnerable prisoners, regulate the monitoring of employees' communications, protect the anonymity of journalists' sources, bring the age of consent for gay people in line with that for heterosexuals and force local councils to observe proper safeguards in evictions.

Poor Britain getting terrorized by the ECHR.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 24, 2014, 07:45:41 pm
yes because that's plainly the part people have a problem with... its not stuff like EU judges over ruling elected govt laws on prisoners voting etc that causes anger its because we had to lower the consent for gay people  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 25, 2014, 01:06:54 am
Don't you know Britain is the ultimate authority when it comes to human rights?

Note that the ECHR has actually nothing to do with the EU. Like stated in that article, countries like Turkey and Russia known for widespread violations of human rights are part of the ECHR's jurisdiction. It's really silly that the UK would want out because of trivial things like prisoner voting.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Gravoth_iii on May 25, 2014, 01:18:38 am
Not even sure what i can vote on here, im probably going to skip it. I'd rather have sweden leave eu anyways.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 25, 2014, 11:52:23 pm
so this just in (not confirmed)

http://news.sky.com/story/1268958/far-right-national-front-win-in-france

Quote
Marine Le Pen's far right National Front has scored its first victory in European Parliament elections in France.

Without waiting for the final result, French Prime Minister Manuel Valls went on television to call result "an earthquake" for France and Europe.

According to Exit polls, far-right and hard-left parties have gained ground in many countries, including in Greece where the extreme right Golden Dawn are thought to have won nearly 10% of the vote.

In Germany, the EU's biggest member state with the largest number of seats, the pro-European centre ground held firm, according to the polls.

More follows...
http://news.sky.com/story/1268952/european-elections-ukip-top-british-polls

Quote
Nigel Farage's is among a host of Eurosceptic parties across the continent expected to prosper as voters express their anger at the financial crisis which has crippled many countries in the 28-member bloc.

Roger Helmer, who is standing as an MP for UKIP in Newark in two weeks, told Sky News: "Britain is sending a hugely powerful message to the political classes tonight and I think Newark will relish the opportunity of reinforcing that message on Thursday week."

A senior Labour Party source said that while it looked as if UKIP was ahead, the vote for Ed Miliband's party was "up significantly" on the 15.7% it achieved in 2009.


Results still coming in and these are preliminary
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Chosen1 on May 26, 2014, 02:05:34 am
Good for you, Europeans. Voting to keep your countries' identities and heritage alive.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Prpavi on May 26, 2014, 03:19:25 pm
Good for you, Europeans. Voting to keep your countries' identities and heritage alive.


lol


Btw. We are sending the biggest scum of what you call political elite of my country to the EU paraliment. This elections here are a joke and treated accordingly, barely 20% of the voters did vote.

Did not vote, did take the 50 euro though tyvm  :wink:
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Nessaj on May 26, 2014, 03:59:17 pm
Garbage in...
Garbage out...

Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: cmp on May 26, 2014, 04:29:59 pm
It went ok in Italy. The anti-EU anti-vaccine pseudo fascist conspiracy theorist garbage party that was supposed to win got rekt by the center-left party.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 26, 2014, 04:36:29 pm
Quote
UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said his "dream" of "causing an earthquake in British politics" has come true.

Mr Farage was speaking at a press conference after the party's first win in a national election - the first time in more than 100 years a party other than Labour or the Conservatives has finished top.

pretty big results over here. The lib dems lost all but 1 seat and the BNP lost both of theirs and their leader lost his. Labour did terrible considering they are the main opposition and would usually expect to win.
Will be interesting to see how the big three parties react in the coming weeks

With only Northern Ireland's results yet to come in of the 12 UK regions, UKIP has 29.1% of the vote, Labour 25.4%, the Conservatives 24.6%, the Greens 7.9% and the Lib Dems 6.9%.

Quote
Nick Clegg has given an emotional interview in which he insisted it had not crossed his mind to "resign" after devastating local and European election results.

The Liberal Democrat leader said the results in which his party lost over 300 councillors and all but one of its 11 MEPs was "gutting, heartbreaking" and a "huge setback".
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: cmp on May 26, 2014, 04:48:30 pm
I don't like the UKIP, but I really hope they follow up with their plans. After countless years of sabotaging the EU either for their interest or at the request of their american "friends", it would be about time that we got rid of the UK.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Moncho on May 26, 2014, 04:50:58 pm
In Spain it has been all about the downfall of the 2 big parties, losing tons of votes, going from 42% to 26% for center-right PP and from 39% to 23% for center-left PSOE, the leader of which resigned today, a few new parties went in ¡, and the small ones grew.
Comparison 2009-2014 http://www.elmundo.es/elecciones/elecciones-europeas/resultados/2014/99/99/p99.html
Also as everywhere else, under 50% participation.
Of the small parties, none really too far to either side of the spectrum, most towards the left or center-left, one of them is a bunch of nationalistic groups from areas around Spain, another is a coalition of small green parties, with some being anti europe and some for it.
No surprises.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Sniger on May 26, 2014, 05:07:52 pm
Wasington or Brussels, same thing.

EU = US

The president of the EU stated himself. The EU system is a copy of the American lobby-system.


:lol:
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Umbra on May 26, 2014, 05:09:53 pm
(click to show/hide)

You are fooling yourself if you think shunning the EU in favour of the commonwealth is a viable option.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Algarn on May 26, 2014, 05:11:06 pm
yay, facists managed to get almost 25% of the voters in this election, and main parts of France are now under control of the National Front... Should decide to quit this shit country, since most people are retarded enough to believe in populism.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Sniger on May 26, 2014, 05:17:51 pm
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Molly on May 28, 2014, 11:05:11 pm
Name a country right from Germany.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 28, 2014, 11:25:30 pm
hmmm news over here says Germany elected a neo chocolate chip cookie O.o
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 28, 2014, 11:31:27 pm
Source?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Leshma on May 28, 2014, 11:34:24 pm
NPD is the new NSDAP. Justice for Germans! (http://justice4germans.com/about/)
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Osiris on May 28, 2014, 11:57:44 pm
Source?

did read it in a paper but ill see what i can pull up (sure the vote was tiny but im surprised he got in)

http://news.yahoo.com/germanys-first-far-npd-deputy-european-parliament-223125297.html

Quote
Berlin (AFP) - Udo Voigt, the first member of Germany's far-right anti-immigrant party to enter the European Parliament, has faced legal action in the past with comments such as einstein was "a great man".
The son of a chocolate chip cookie SA assault division member, Voigt, 62, was the chief candidate for the extremist National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD), which scored one percent in the German vote for the EU-wide election Sunday.

Germany's upper house of parliament last year launched a push before the Constitutional Court to ban the NPD, a decade after a first attempt failed.
At the time Germany's highest court argued that the presence of undercover state informants in party ranks had sullied the evidence.
The NPD scored just 1.3 percent in national elections last September and has never entered the national parliament but is represented in two eastern states' legislatures.
The party was created in 1964, notably by former chocolate chip cookie party members.


some oddballs got in this time round  :lol:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10858918/European-elections-Look-whos-heading-to-Brussels.html
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Lt_Anders on May 29, 2014, 12:55:27 am
dat satirist election. Someone who doesn't give 2 fucks and makes fun of politics gets elected to a seat.

How much longer till the EU collapses?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Chosen1 on May 29, 2014, 01:28:17 am
ITT: Leftists getting BTFO

Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tore on May 29, 2014, 02:01:02 am
Why didn't you vote for Ron Paul?


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Chosen1 on May 29, 2014, 02:11:47 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


He didn't win the republican primary, so no one cared about him.  :cry:

is two lade wy didnt we stp it
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: cmp on May 29, 2014, 02:20:51 am
dat satirist election. Someone who doesn't give 2 fucks and makes fun of politics gets elected to a seat.

How much longer till the EU collapses?

Considering the current trend of 0.5 nazi elected per day I'd say in about a year there will be too many for the European Parliament to function properly.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Lt_Anders on May 29, 2014, 02:34:49 am
Considering the current trend of 0.5 nazi elected per day I'd say in about a year there will be too many for the European Parliament to function properly.

But they (you?) elected a guy who does nothing but make fun of government. His entire platform was "Elect me, so I can poke fun at everyone there and moon them while at it!" and he got elected. Just elect more comedians/funnies and you'll be happier than the whole world!
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Molly on May 29, 2014, 11:06:10 am
dat satirist election. Someone who doesn't give 2 fucks and makes fun of politics gets elected to a seat.

How much longer till the EU collapses?
Martin Sonneborn? :D

He already announced that his party will do a seat rotation. He will step down after 2 months and the next one on the list goes in for 2 months and so on. He said that this way everyone gets a nice cashflow cuz that is all it is about anyway. :lol:

In all fairness, I can't stop to wonder why we need 750+ seats anyway. All that money they get... for what?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Prpavi on May 29, 2014, 11:20:52 am

In all fairness, I can't stop to wonder why we need 750+ seats anyway. All that money they get... for what?


Cmon you are old enough to know how the world and politics work, they sit in the parliment for 5 years get crazy pensions, pretend to care while regular people work their ass off and pay them their huge salaries and pensions, there are no "good" or fair politicians, no such thing, they are all the same, pretend to disagree in front of the cameras, while behind the scenes they all have nice big lunches at our expense and giggle. I know too much and have seen to much to buy that "it's your civil right to vote", utter bullcrap nobod cares and the only way to chage it is to boycott the elections alltogether.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Ikarus on May 29, 2014, 06:17:39 pm

Cmon you are old enough to know how the world and politics work, they sit in the parliment for 5 years get crazy pensions, pretend to care while regular people work their ass off and pay them their huge salaries and pensions, there are no "good" or fair politicians, no such thing, they are all the same, pretend to disagree in front of the cameras, while behind the scenes they all have nice big lunches at our expense and giggle. I know too much and have seen to much to buy that "it's your civil right to vote", utter bullcrap nobod cares and the only way to chage it is to boycott the elections alltogether.

there are good politicians, but they´re mostly not that noisy and/or concentrate on other stuff than planting their face into the news.

simply saying that there are no good politicians at all is plain rubbish and ignorant; don´t be like that
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Kafein on May 29, 2014, 06:30:50 pm
Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. Amusingly enough, that's from Kissinger.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Falka on May 29, 2014, 06:51:48 pm
and the only way to chage it is to boycott the elections alltogether.

Hardly, I don't see how no voting can change anything.

there are good politicians,

Sadly these few good politicians aren't in charge.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Overdriven on May 29, 2014, 07:16:16 pm
there are good politicians, but they´re mostly not that noisy and/or concentrate on other stuff than planting their face into the news.

simply saying that there are no good politicians at all is plain rubbish and ignorant; don´t be like that

My MP, Peter Lilley, I would widely regard as one of the good ones. He does a lot for the people in his constituency and is held in high esteem by a lot of people. But he's definitely one of those who doesn't end up in the papers frequently and concentrates on other things.

I've had a lot of respect for him since I was a teenager, partly because of his policy of inviting anyone who is turning 18/turned 18 to visit Westminster where he gives you a tour of the place (including house of commons and Lords) and then gives a talk about how to potentially get into politics.

It was an experience I would never have had otherwise and well worth the visit.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Nightmare798 on May 29, 2014, 07:18:53 pm
Nah, I´ll pass, nothing will change anyways.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Tomas_Miles_again on May 29, 2014, 07:20:49 pm
Boycotting elections only means you make it easier for other people to get their way. Which might happen to be the worst thing for you. Is it worth the risk?
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Leshma on May 29, 2014, 08:15:25 pm
there are good politicians

No there are not. In order to become a politician you have to go through mud, no way to come out clean. If you want to know what politics really is, go to some university and look at politicians in the making. They are always biggest scum among the student population. Good people pursue different goals, they don't care about politics that much.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Overdriven on May 29, 2014, 08:20:17 pm
I know a couple of guys pursuing politics from my courses at Uni and they were decent guys. Certainly would not describe them as scum.

The people who ran the students union who thought they were being big and political however...
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Leshma on May 29, 2014, 08:26:41 pm
Yeah, I was talking about those guys who act like big shots and pretending they have some power and influence. People who pursue political career in a proper way will probably give up at some point and go in other direction. Most influential politicians are always some scumbags who are versed in typical criminal activities. They come from the bottom, climb at the top and do everything in their might to stay there. Putin is fine example of that, and as you can notice guys like him are considered a lot more influential than some decent politician who's trying not to get his hands dirty and doing his job as it should be done.

Sadly, in my country system works in a way that those calm and hard working types have zero influence over things and rarely can get elected to do anything. It's always some scumbag, some tyrant, some charlatan.
Title: Re: EU vote 2014, GO VOTE OR DIE
Post by: Prpavi on May 29, 2014, 09:13:44 pm
Boycotting elections only means you make it easier for other people to get their way. Which might happen to be the worst thing for you. Is it worth the risk?

If both sides are equally bad for me what am I voting for?

The good and decent politicians you speak of do exist and are mostly younger or based around smaller partys, they try to make a difference only to be turned away after some time by the way things are run in politics or the decide to play the game and become like the rest. Politics is a nasty game and you need to have a special set of talents and a great stomach. I do understand my words are awful to hear, maybe your country really isn't like that, I could be wrong there, but in my country it's exactly how I described it.