What do the most popular esports have in common? Koreans!
Games need to be casual first and foremost in order to work at a competitive level.
Not at all, or there wouldn't be games like Starcraft high in the list of esports.
Not at all, or there wouldn't be games like Starcraft high in the list of esports.https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLooJOgo-8bToEW-PRePfc0q2P8RqbTpev
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLooJOgo-8bToEW-PRePfc0q2P8RqbTpev
Your point being? Starcraft is a casual game because it's also played by non-pro players? Does that mean every game is casual?Nope, but it shows how the game can be fun even when it's not good players playing, aka it's still fun for casuals.
Not at all, or there wouldn't be games like Starcraft high in the list of esports.
Nope, but it shows how the game can be fun even when it's not good players playing, aka it's still fun for casuals.
However, I think it would be better if persistent levelling only added more cosmetic potential, or at best gear *diversity* (not quality) and gameplay levelling was instance based.
not a chance, will be poorly balancedThere isn't actually any correlation between successful e-sports games and well balanced games. I've seen well balanced games fail, and unbalanced games succeed. The thing to remember, is that not every e-sports scene is the same as the next, they're often comprised of players with completely different expectations. You've got games like Super Smash Bros(no offense San), League of Legends and Call of Duty at the same events as Street Fighter, Dota, and Counter-Strike. The depth and balance of these two categories is completely different, yet each game is quite successful. Hell, even WoW, which has some of the worst balance you can find, has(or had) an e-sports scene.
There isn't actually any correlation between successful e-sports games and well balanced games. I've seen well balanced games fail, and unbalanced games succeed. The thing to remember, is that not every e-sports scene is the same as the next, they're often comprised of players with completely different expectations. You've got games like Super Smash Bros(no offense San), League of Legends and Call of Duty at the same events as Street Fighter, Dota, and Counter-Strike. The depth and balance of these two categories is completely different, yet each game is quite successful. Hell, even WoW, which has some of the worst balance you can find, has(or had) an e-sports scene.
Nope, but it shows how the game can be fun even when it's not good players playing, aka it's still fun for casuals.
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yeah butAnd League of Legends has a larger e-sports scene than dota, yet suffers from significantly worse balance and shallow gameplay.
starcraft, counterstrike, dota
My guess is you won't get a lot of traction, based on the graphics alone. Yes, even esports players are shallow.
problem is, crpg devs randomly break mechanics and refuse to ever fix them (kick, nudge, stabs, 1h right swing)
competitive play can't have things this broken this frequently, and it seems unlikely devs will stop breaking things in the future (it's understandable, you put work into something, you dont want to remove it just because it's not very good, but it still kinda sucks for the players)
M&B graphics are already far better than any other major competitive game out there. Don't forget it is still work in progress, but even in current stage it greatly surpasses eye candy of CS, Dota 2, LoL, StarCraft. Only thing those games got going for them are colors everywhere (except Counter Strike of course) and some overdone special effects. But other than that, those game are turds in graphical sense.
problem is, crpg devs randomly break mechanics and refuse to ever fix them (kick, nudge, stabs, 1h right swing)
problem is, crpg devs randomly break mechanics and refuse to ever fix them (kick, nudge, stabs, 1h right swing)
competitive play can't have things this broken this frequently, and it seems unlikely devs will stop breaking things in the future (it's understandable, you put work into something, you dont want to remove it just because it's not very good, but it still kinda sucks for the players)
cRPG is an experiment, M:BG is a game meant to be sold for money and will hold much higher standards (if they want to succeed). You really can't compare cRPG to M:BG, because first is a fun mod where you can't force devs to do anything because they are doing it in their free time while second is commercial product.Exactly. I have no interest in going into the gaming industry. I'm a cRPG "Dev" because I enjoy playing and (sometimes) improving the mod, not because I think of it as a stepping stone. Mods are completely different than full games. Therefore holding a mod up to the same expectations, or trying to infer the success of a commercial product based upon specific actions/tendencies within a mod, is stupid. You don't expect a hobbyist (American)football player to perform under the same requirements/same settings as a professional(many would literally die), why do this with a mod?
Exactly. I have no interest in going into the gaming industry. I'm a cRPG "Dev" because I enjoy playing and (sometimes) improving the mod, not because I think of it as a stepping stone. Mods are completely different than full games. Therefore holding a mod up to the same expectations, or trying to infer the success of a commercial product based upon specific actions/tendencies within a mod, is stupid. You don't expect a hobbyist (American)football player to perform under the same requirements/same settings as a professional(many would literally die), why do this with a mod?
problem is, crpg devs randomly break mechanics and refuse to ever fix them (kick, nudge, stabs, 1h right swing)
competitive play can't have things this broken this frequently, and it seems unlikely devs will stop breaking things in the future (it's understandable, you put work into something, you dont want to remove it just because it's not very good, but it still kinda sucks for the players)
There isn't actually any correlation between successful e-sports games and well balanced games. I've seen well balanced games fail, and unbalanced games succeed. The thing to remember, is that not every e-sports scene is the same as the next, they're often comprised of players with completely different expectations. You've got games like Super Smash Bros(no offense San), League of Legends and Call of Duty at the same events as Street Fighter, Dota, and Counter-Strike. The depth and balance of these two categories is completely different, yet each game is quite successful. Hell, even WoW, which has some of the worst balance you can find, has(or had) an e-sports scene.I agree with most other than SF being deeper than smash of course (both aren't *that* deep, or at least SF4). I was a casual player for smash from 2002-2006, was referred to a venue ~2005 (since it's never really fun to beat friends who don't own the game) that I went to occasionally, but didn't really start actively going to until 2008 when the next game came out. One thing usually leads to another most of the time, since most start out playing casually until they find worth in improving even more and playing with those of similar skill level.
As long as the game is popular and fun to watch, I think it has a chance.
"A leopard can't change his shorts" - Terry Pratchett
On this ground Warband alike games beats Dota & Starcraft hands down. I think videos from warband/cRPG are much more enjoyable to watch for casuals than those made in Dota e.g. And I don't say it exclusively from my current perspective - after a few thousands hours which I've spent here; I've bought warband after watching Reapy's videos cause game looked so cool.
One very common characteristic of "e-sport" games is player being ranked by skill and matchmaking.
When players are constantly pitched in more or less balanced matches, skills tend to improve quickly. The game remains popular to bads and newbies, attracting new players while at the same time encouraging an elitist culture at the top. Bad players have time to learn the game against equally bad players. Against middle-ranked players they would most likely GTX away, but they don't meet the middle skill players all that much. Good players do not lose time and interest crushing noobs but instead keep on receiving opportunities for improvement as they keep on meeting better players.
This is why the level in cRPG is getting stale in my opinion. The playerbase is too small to be split into skill tiers, so the good players have no real reason to improve, and the noobs don't stay.
My answer to the Op question is: noThe most fun i ever had in cRPG, by far. Those fallen tournaments was just amazing, and it was so much fun to go to them with the original Risen clan. Something like that really creates a spark in the activity of a clan, and there has not been any other tournaments like it since, in my opinion.
To me the "golden" times of cRPG were Fallen tourneys betheen strat 1 and 2, the mod just felt so alive, imagine if we had dev backing with loompoints or gold.
Truth to be told, I always hoped that competitions and stuff come from the community, not from us devs. I feel it's a good thing when game development and competition development is completely separated (with bidirectional influences, of course).
However, since that clearly did not work out :wink:, we will take special care of creating a healthy competition system for M:BG. If it's enough for esports, we can't say yet, no one can. We hope it is, of course.
Exposition aside, breathing life into a competitive atmosphere is having some community member semi-official do a lot of groundwork, organizing things for a scene to even rise, much like Captain Lust did in Native, before and after being hired by Taleworlds.chadz, give me EU Admin Rank 10(For unique item rewards) and forum moderator status (So Events can get properly organized as well as moved outside of General Discussion)! :twisted:
Doubt most people even know about the events when they happen. A good place to start would be to increase the visibility by making it a main forum area than sub forum, or let people talk about events in GD. Could even have upcoming events on the main site rather than the forumMore proof that it needs better organization!
please no esport shit
I have no clue where the distinction between an 'E-sport' and a competitive games lies
I found it more satisfying to have a close tense game.
You must unlearn what you have learned.
get melee green lit on steam and i think it has a good chance of getting near the top.Steam isn't continuing Greenlight much longer. I've read several times that it will end sometime this year. So... better not rely on that one.
Valve president Gabe Newell told the assembled crowd of developers that they want to get rid of Greenlight.
“Our goal is to make Greenlight go away,” said Newell. “Not because it’s not useful, but because we’re evolving.”
Devs should make a new chance to donate, so we can give them more money so that they can make an even bettr game.Go ahead, give money for us ! :)
[...]
Distinct separation of gameplay and cosmetics. Imagine if weeaboos, medieval reenactor escrima fanatics, and fiction/lore junkies could represent their ideal character visually without unbalancing them because of differences in gear stats? i.e. a katana and a greatsword *were* the same item, excepting visually. The tiers of weeaboo armour aligned with the tiers of European armour because they were statistically the same. It was certainly cool to have all these very different weapons in cRPG, but it would be easier to balance if weapons were aligned into tiers of stats, but were only visually different. You could even (yep gonna say it) monetise cosmetic stuff, i.e. provide European visuals as core/standard, but have Asian, Middle-Eastern, Renaissance , African, American, extra European cosmetic gear available as optional purchases.
[...]
I don't know how you make animations of M:BG, don't think you have a motion capture studio or you have funds to use someone's motion capture studio and since animation is the most important part of this kinda game, I sadly think that M:BG will fail.
Animations in last dev's video looks pretty awesome.:O Can I haz a link to it ?
Probably not, it's available only for scholars, in closed section of forum.:( Discriminating people by their education is wrong! What's wrong being a non-scholar peasant !
I don't believe it has, even though that would be amazing. I just dont see it collecting a big enough playerbase to actually support a decent competitive scene. I do however believe that the very game, as a concept has potential, because i expect the skill roof to be pretty high.
Gambling or not, you should have an item shop that uses real money. No better stats on gear though, just for stuff like different cloth dye colours or other cosmetic stuff. Add a chance for the stuff to drop when you get kills and it will be fine, just an extra way to fund the game when its released..if people want to spend money on junk in a game let them as long as it doesn't interfere with gameplayThis
[...]
And By the way ;
If you add an ingame STORE, please, for all the guys who pre-ordered/gave money for the development, make it free, or very very very very small price. (like 75% discount)
For me it would be a fair and respectable present made to the old community who supported/helped you for so many years. :)
Edit: and yes i'm not against a store for style/cosmetic armors. (if something is made for the "first-buyer" + new free contents & updates)
FrenchKiss
What is wrong with cosmetic microtransactions ?They become macrotransactions for me quiet easily. :lol:
Haha, I must admit that's a new idea :lol:
Would it work? Probably.
Would it completely ruin the community, draw in the biggest lowlifes, scumbags and cheaters? Definitely.
Works for Dota 2. Also, see Loadout, they got a good in-game store.
In game stores aren't bad but..... Eventually.... the devs start creating things for money rather than balance. It becomes pay to win.
What is wrong with cosmetic microtransactions ?
do we even want this?You are too biased. You want there to be no rules :|
Fuck look how stupid and fucking gay all those esport games are, their player base is shit and it breaks the game.
do we even want this?You're right, there's no e-sports shit in cRPG, which explains why our community is superior and never attempts to break anything. :rolleyes:
Fuck look how stupid and fucking gay all those esport games are, their player base is shit and it breaks the game.
I thought 'e-sport' was just a new hip word that means 'Take too seriously, obsessed with performance and K/D', how is cRPG not one?E-sport is more about nice games with skilled players, a good show, an event (like watching a match) etc...
I thought 'e-sport' was just a new hip word that means 'Take too seriously, obsessed with performance and K/D', how is cRPG not one?I thought it was more about it being competitive, watched and playing for money
I thought 'e-sport' was just a new hip word that means 'Take too seriously, obsessed with performance and K/D', how is cRPG not one?Maybe to some, but that's certainly not how it's being used in this thread and I wouldn't say it's proper use of the term. Generally people are talking about the "scene" and whether or not one exists. It's the difference between pub play, and organized play, generally in the form of tournaments/matches. Money is irrelevant, but tends to increase the size of the community. Up until you reach a certain tipping point, you just have "events" like what we have in cRPG, where occasionally you have a tournament or two, and often only involving a few players with very little practice/preparation before each match. Your e-sports scene is completely separate from public servers, therefore public performance or k/d is irrelevant.
Does it have e sport potential: No it doesn't have enough hype or player base, also the fact that it is not even out yet.Uhhh... Isn't that why he used the word "potential"? All of those three things can only happen after open beta.
Maybe to some, but that's certainly not how it's being used in this thread and I wouldn't say it's proper use of the term. Generally people are talking about the "scene" and whether or not one exists. It's the difference between pub play, and organized play, generally in the form of tournaments/matches.
Not being snarky (for once), genuinely never heard of e-sports till this thread lol, i'm a poor excuse of a geek...Koreans don't play starcraft 24/7 for no reason :D
Had no idea people played games for money like that
Yea sure potential... All the E sports today had a following before they came out i.e. Starcraft, CoD, Dota, etc.Their original games didn't. Furthermore, that's only a fraction of the actual e-sports scene. Just because something isn't an MLG featured game, doesn't mean it lacks a competitive scene.
Hello Kitty Island Adventure E sports TournamentI can't tell if your sarcasm is in support of what I said, or in response to. In the event that it's in response to my previous statements, check the spoiler.
The world's most competitive MLG circuit announces it's 1st annual HKIA Tournament. Compete against the world's best Kitties for the grand prize of $5!!! Contestants must sign up at nobodygivesashit.com before June 8th.
Brought to you by the world of E sports
I can't tell if your sarcasm is in support of what I said, or in response to. In the event that it's in response to my previous statements, check the spoiler.(click to show/hide)
Edit: Piece of shit "Toggle View" button fucking up my post.
'Take too seriously, obsessed with performance and K/D'That is e-peen, not e-sport, we need a global k/d leaderboard for a proper e-peen scene in cRPG.
Problem with lot of people playing M&B is that game is much harder then most popular games. When someone tries it it is very hard to make them stay for a while until they learn at least something so they can do anything in game at all.
Maybe it could work if you design like few levels or something where people who registered in like last month only play against people who registered in last month or something like that(i know it's easier said then done and all that, just something where they don't just jump into playing all veteran players and they lose all interest in game because they feel totally useless, i am not really creative person so don't really know what should be, but something to help them stay like for first few weeks) because how it is now, it is very hard to make people stay to play when they can't do anything at all unless they play game a lot for quite some time.
I am still pretty new and i played for a while and even i still feel pretty useless but it is even worse for new people, i persuaded few friends to try game, but they just quit it after few hours even tho i was telling them that if they stick around they'll really love it etc, nothing help there.
So point is idea is really great, that would be so awesome to do, but to have any chance of success i really think need to do something to make a lot easier for people who didn't play this kind of games, because that can only work if lot of people play it and that will be hard to manage with current state of things.
Problem with lot of people playing M&B is that game is much harder then most popular games. When someone tries it it is very hard to make them stay for a while until they learn at least something so they can do anything in game at all.
Maybe it could work if you design like few levels or something where people who registered in like last month only play against people who registered in last month or something like that(i know it's easier said then done and all that, just something where they don't just jump into playing all veteran players and they lose all interest in game because they feel totally useless, i am not really creative person so don't really know what should be, but something to help them stay like for first few weeks) because how it is now, it is very hard to make people stay to play when they can't do anything at all unless they play game a lot for quite some time.
I am still pretty new and i played for a while and even i still feel pretty useless but it is even worse for new people, i persuaded few friends to try game, but they just quit it after few hours even tho i was telling them that if they stick around they'll really love it etc, nothing help there.
So point is idea is really great, that would be so awesome to do, but to have any chance of success i really think need to do something to make a lot easier for people who didn't play this kind of games, because that can only work if lot of people play it and that will be hard to manage with current state of things.