Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?

[Corsair831]

M&B graphics are already far better than any other major competitive game out there. Don't forget it is still work in progress, but even in current stage it greatly surpasses eye candy of CS, Dota 2, LoL, StarCraft. Only thing those games got going for them are colors everywhere (except Counter Strike of course) and some overdone special effects. But other than that, those game are turds in graphical sense.

well that's just not true, starcraft 2 is beautiful

[Leshma]

For me, pretty graphics means realistic graphics. StarCraft, just like other Blizzard games is designed in a different manner and art style is what makes it beautiful for someone (or not). For me that look they've been forcing since World of Warcraft is terrible. I singlehandedly blame Samwise Didier for it.

[cmp]

problem is, crpg devs randomly break mechanics and refuse to ever fix them (kick, nudge, stabs, 1h right swing)

The "I don't like it therefore it's broken" argument comes up after every patch in Dota, but it doesn't seem to be that big of a problem.

[Osiris]

will the devs get involved with making a competitive  scene or leave it to the player base to sort everything out?

[Tomas_Miles_again]

it would be in their best interests to come up with an integrated solution. I'm betting it's on a list, somewhere after getting the core gameplay mechanics working. 

[Tydeus]

problem is, crpg devs randomly break mechanics and refuse to ever fix them (kick, nudge, stabs, 1h right swing)

 competitive play can't have things this broken this frequently, and it seems unlikely devs will stop breaking things in the future (it's understandable, you put work into something, you dont want to remove it just because it's not very good, but it still kinda sucks for the players)

cRPG is an experiment, M:BG is a game meant to be sold for money and will hold much higher standards (if they want to succeed). You really can't compare cRPG to M:BG, because first is a fun mod where you can't force devs to do anything because they are doing it in their free time while second is commercial product.

Exactly. I have no interest in going into the gaming industry. I'm a cRPG "Dev" because I enjoy playing and (sometimes) improving the mod, not because I think of it as a stepping stone. Mods are completely different than full games. Therefore holding a mod up to the same expectations, or trying to infer the success of a commercial product based upon specific actions/tendencies within a mod, is stupid. You don't expect a hobbyist (American)football player to perform under the same requirements/same settings as a professional(many would literally die), why do this with a mod?

[Tomas_Miles_again]

Truesay. I think after you guys release M:BG you put cRPG up on Github. 

[Corsair831]

Exactly. I have no interest in going into the gaming industry. I'm a cRPG "Dev" because I enjoy playing and (sometimes) improving the mod, not because I think of it as a stepping stone. Mods are completely different than full games. Therefore holding a mod up to the same expectations, or trying to infer the success of a commercial product based upon specific actions/tendencies within a mod, is stupid. You don't expect a hobbyist (American)football player to perform under the same requirements/same settings as a professional(many would literally die), why do this with a mod?

"A leopard can't change his shorts" - Terry Pratchett

[Nessaj]

problem is, crpg devs randomly break mechanics and refuse to ever fix them (kick, nudge, stabs, 1h right swing)

 competitive play can't have things this broken this frequently, and it seems unlikely devs will stop breaking things in the future (it's understandable, you put work into something, you dont want to remove it just because it's not very good, but it still kinda sucks for the players)

It should be mentioned that a lot of those of us who work on MBG never did any development on cRPG, so comparing the development of the mod to MBG is silly in more than one way

Mod is mostly run by the community really, tons of different people pitching in, few taking the lead usually. Some join in for a while and do some changes, then disappear. If anything, cRPG where it is now, is truly the product of the community.

[Grumbs]

I guess you just need to make the game fun to play whatever skill level people are at.

If you play in a team  you can still win if your team mates carry you regardless of how bad you are. You can have weapons that are powerful as a newbie but other equipment should surpass them when you get good. Like in cRPG spamming is quite a good tactic when you're new until you fight someone able to counter it

Its a shame to have to have it, but ranged is a great way for bad players to get some experience and feel like they are taking part in the game. In terms of cRPG though the ranged weapons don't get worse as you get good at the game, they are good all the way through the skill levels and complement a good player while inflating a bad player's score. Ideally the ranged weapons should be things you ditch as you get past needing that crutch

Other things to add are more support classes like hoplites that have good defence while having good team fight presence

I'm sure Donkey can come up with more ways to let newbies and bad/average players still have fun. But at the same time you have to consider how frustrating it could be for good players to get "cheesed" by newbie classes/tactics. There needs to be a desire for people to actually get competitive, that won't happen if its too newbie friendly, everyone will just be lazy and use that gear/class

[Tomas_Miles_again]

Imagine how much less people would care about ranged in cRPG if you could deflect projectiles with any melee weapon.

Edit: please allow collisions of projectiles and melee weapons in M:BG!

[Tomas_Miles_again]

Double post: If you do want to add some kind of Strategus successor, I suggest looking at March of War.

[San]

A competitive game doesn't really have to appeal to the top %. They'll find their own strategies to give them the edge even if it wasn't specifically designed that way in most cases. The base gameplay only needs to be robust and things will naturally fall into place, even if competitive play only has a few viable strategies. As long as the game is popular and fun to watch, I think it has a chance. I think that something like melee: battlegrounds can appeal to a casual audience. All you need to do is left click and hope to cleave some fools in two.

I must say that I vastly overestimated how "fun" warband is to watch. Whenever I tried to show people, they were just overwhelmed with everything happening on the screen. I think that's a hurdle that M:BG probably should address, since it probably won't offer the scale/"awe" of other medieval-themed games of developers with larger budgets, regardless of its final quality.

There isn't actually any correlation between successful e-sports games and well balanced games. I've seen well balanced games fail, and unbalanced games succeed. The thing to remember, is that not every e-sports scene is the same as the next, they're often comprised of players with completely different expectations. You've got games like Super Smash Bros(no offense San), League of Legends and Call of Duty at the same events as Street Fighter, Dota, and Counter-Strike. The depth and balance of these two categories is completely different, yet each game is quite successful. Hell, even WoW, which has some of the worst balance you can find, has(or had) an e-sports scene.

I agree with most other than SF being deeper than smash of course (both aren't *that* deep, or at least SF4). I was a casual player for smash from 2002-2006, was referred to a venue ~2005 (since it's never really fun to beat friends who don't own the game) that I went to occasionally, but didn't really start actively going to until 2008 when the next game came out. One thing usually leads to another most of the time, since most start out playing casually until they find worth in improving even more and playing with those of similar skill level.

[Falka]

As long as the game is popular and fun to watch, I think it has a chance.

On this ground Warband alike games beats Dota & Starcraft hands down. I think videos from warband/cRPG are much more enjoyable to watch for casuals than those made in Dota e.g. And I don't say it exclusively from my current perspective - after a few thousands hours which I've spent here; I've bought warband after watching Reapy's videos cause game looked so cool.

[Sandersson Jankins]

"A leopard can't change his shorts" - Terry Pratchett

But a leopard CAN change his shorts.

Also I've been going hard in the discworld series lately, motherfucking terry pratchett is gr8.

pls can we literature circlejerk now?