Author Topic: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?  (Read 5550 times)

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Offline San

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2014, 09:30:34 pm »
+1
On this ground Warband alike games beats Dota & Starcraft hands down. I think videos from warband/cRPG are much more enjoyable to watch for casuals than those made in Dota e.g. And I don't say it exclusively from my current perspective - after a few thousands hours which I've spent here; I've bought warband after watching Reapy's videos cause game looked so cool.

Didn't show them the tutorial video, mostly just gameplay vids. That might've been the problem.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2014, 11:17:18 pm »
+8
One very common characteristic of "e-sport" games is player being ranked by skill and matchmaking.

When players are constantly pitched in more or less balanced matches, skills tend to improve quickly. The game remains popular to bads and newbies, attracting new players while at the same time encouraging an elitist culture at the top. Bad players have time to learn the game against equally bad players. Against middle-ranked players they would most likely GTX away, but they don't meet the middle skill players all that much. Good players do not lose time and interest crushing noobs but instead keep on receiving opportunities for improvement as they keep on meeting better players.

This is why the level in cRPG is getting stale in my opinion. The playerbase is too small to be split into skill tiers, so the good players have no real reason to improve, and the noobs don't stay.

Offline Grumbs

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2014, 10:32:02 am »
0
One very common characteristic of "e-sport" games is player being ranked by skill and matchmaking.

When players are constantly pitched in more or less balanced matches, skills tend to improve quickly. The game remains popular to bads and newbies, attracting new players while at the same time encouraging an elitist culture at the top. Bad players have time to learn the game against equally bad players. Against middle-ranked players they would most likely GTX away, but they don't meet the middle skill players all that much. Good players do not lose time and interest crushing noobs but instead keep on receiving opportunities for improvement as they keep on meeting better players.

This is why the level in cRPG is getting stale in my opinion. The playerbase is too small to be split into skill tiers, so the good players have no real reason to improve, and the noobs don't stay.

This is pretty much what I was trying to say. Games that are designed to be competitive from the ground up need to think about how the average and bad players are still going to enjoy the game in a public server. If you look at a game like cRPG you can have 20% of the players on the server getting 80% of the kills. For every person that has more than a 1:1 kD ratio thats potentially another player thats not having fun because he can't kill stuff. The goal of game designers now is for people to roughly get 1:1 KPD, that means everyone is having fun. It sucks because to do that in public FPS games they try to bring the skill ceiling down while bringing the skill floor up. So good players don't really dominate and bad players still have options to do well. You have random deaths with nades flying everywhere, airstrikes, random headshots, rock-paper-scissors, RPG elements, levelling up, thoughtless run&gunning etc.

Games like CS managed to succeed as newbie friendly games and as competitive games because they have a unique design. You have your newbies running & gunning or crouch spraying and getting random headshots which can defeat even the best players depending on random chance, and the best players learn techniques that overcomes the randomness and allow you to force headshots. No matter how good you are you will still die to random sprayed headshots, this allows newbies and average players to still have fun on public servers

Hopefully Donkey crew can do something similar without making the game too frustrating to play. They need to remember to make sure the newbie friendly stuff isn't still used by good players though. Like in cRPG we have xbows. By themselves xbows might be a legitimate way to allow bad players to have some fun, but the way they're implemented means the best players can exploit them by being good in melee and having no downsides in that part of the gameplay. Good players just get a newbie friendly weapon alongside their normal melee capability. Really you should have next to no melee capability if you want to go the newbie friendly route, so that you transition out of that gameplay as you get better
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Offline Prpavi

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2014, 12:10:09 pm »
+3
My answer to the Op question is: no

Why? Because dev involvement into a future "league" or tournaments is needed, sure a community can carry it to a degree but a game with a limited player base like this game will have, by that I mean not milions like mobas or FPS can't carry independent leagues, tournaments. Hell even Dota is backed by Valve and now has a ridiculous prize pool thanks to the the playerbase and the dev combined.

Seems to me that the dev team of M:BG is going in the other direction, an improved strategus direction (M:E) and I feel most energy beyond polishing and balancing will go into that so no league for us I'm afraid.

To me the "golden" times of cRPG were Fallen tourneys betheen strat 1 and 2, the mod just felt so alive, imagine if we had dev backing with loompoints or gold. Even Panos 1v1 tourney produced more interesting moments gameplay and skill wise than strat ever did for me personally.

Bottom line it seems that this game is going for something else and if some kind of a league happens good (honestly doubt it), if not devs will shed no tears.
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Offline jtobiasm

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2014, 12:19:21 pm »
0
@Prpavi.    I'm pretty sure chadz said he would give gold out to the winners of the clan league. 2Million in total.   Yet clans can't seem to be arsed with it.  The league was successful in the first season.

Offline Prpavi

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2014, 12:23:19 pm »
0
It's kind of late now is it

I was thinking of backing the tourneys back then, like 2011
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Offline jtobiasm

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2014, 12:25:23 pm »
0
Ahh well that wast before my time :)

Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2014, 12:32:40 pm »
+1
Plus it was barely fun, back then there where elitist clans, other clans didnt stand a chance.

Its not so bad now, but mod is ded.
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Offline Prpavi

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2014, 01:20:29 pm »
+3
I hardly ever considered my old friends/Bandits an elitist clan yet we finished 3rd in one of the tourneys, but yeah I agree there were only a handful of contenders for he forst spot but with time it would have gotten better.

Still better than what strat brought, massive clan recruiting, back then there were many fun smaller clans not huge blocks like today.
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Offline Molly

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2014, 01:45:24 pm »
+1
Agree with Prips.
What he said.

Tueten's events were awesome. Especially the all-out friendly atmosphere. No stupid animosities between people, no try-hard, just pure fun and laughter.
Panos' tournament was great. I was merely a referee but I enjoyed every match I managed to rule/watch. Granted, the execution was... not perfect... but that's experience we lacked but have now.

We might see a few tournaments in M:BG but only with time and probably community driven, most likely by this community and not necessarily by the whole M:BG community.
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Offline _GTX_

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2014, 02:02:27 pm »
+2
My answer to the Op question is: no

To me the "golden" times of cRPG were Fallen tourneys betheen strat 1 and 2, the mod just felt so alive, imagine if we had dev backing with loompoints or gold.
The most fun i ever had in cRPG, by far. Those fallen tournaments was just amazing, and it was so much fun to go to them with the original Risen clan. Something like that really creates a spark in the activity of a clan, and there has not been any other tournaments like it since, in my opinion.
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Offline chadz

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2014, 03:41:12 pm »
+8
Truth to be told, I always hoped that competitions and stuff come from the community, not from us devs. I feel it's a good thing when game development and competition development is completely separated (with bidirectional influences, of course).

However, since that clearly did not work out :wink:, we will take special care of creating a healthy competition system for M:BG. If it's enough for esports, we can't say yet, no one can. We hope it is, of course.

Offline Herezy92

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2014, 03:45:06 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)

Good to know.
At least, one of the crpg's fail, is going to help/improve the next game.  :)

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2014, 03:53:18 pm »
+1
It would be great to have a server tool for managing this kind of stuff.
An admin logs onto the server while it's running, can access a mask where he sets the mode (5vs5) and then can click together the team, sets the time limit and the map.
Those chosen by the admin can join the server/team and get automatically sorted into the proper team according to the mask entries. Everyone else is stuck in spectator and can't spawn...

Along this line, some online-ingame tool/mask which helps to manage those kind of tournaments... can't be that hard to program, I imagine.
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Offline Herezy92

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Re: Does Melee: Battlegrounds have Esports potential?
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2014, 03:58:59 pm »
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The molly's idea is interesting.
Having a server with "moderators" (instead of admins, they have a bit less rights, and its dedicated/aimed to manage events on the unique dedicated server)
The rank "moderator" would be much easier to reach, and do not require special tasks like admins does.
Of course the rank "moderator" must exist only on this dedicated server in order to manage the events.

What do you think?

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