I am not sure what to think about these stabs though. They seem so superior because they are the fastest of them attacks we have. Dunno what it would be if all the attack directions were nearly as fast :shock:. Probably a shield era because manual blocking would be 1337...
as long as stab will be the best atack at any range melee gameplay will sufferBest is a bit subjective. I think it's more or less just the easiest to land a hit with, because it's effectively a faster hitting attack direction than the other three directions, for multiple reasons. When the average player can block well, anything that makes it a lot easier to land a hit, becomes much more valuable than it otherwise would be.
Narrow the thrust sweetspot to 40-70%(from 35-75%), increase the release animation length(not the frames, the interval), then increase weapon speeds. This results in slower, more difficult thrusts that are a bit closer to how difficult it is to land side swings(40% through the anim, roughly, to reach the sweetspot), but also increases the speed of side swings, thus making it easier to land the non-thrust attacks. Should speed up melee a fair bit making it more enjoyable and help persuade some long time players to stick with the faster paced, more enjoyable gameplay(melee), rather than going ranged.
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Tydeus tweaked all 1h sweetspots, he must have, else why, when I had no problem blocking leftswing spam before patch, am I constantly being hit by spammed attacks that dont ever glance?Except that I didn't.
NO! Stop buffing 1hand.I should have posted the entirety of my proposal...
Deciding how to increase weapon speeds without changing internal balance could be difficult, but here is what I imagine it looking like:Meaning I'm aware of the 1h speed "issue".
+1 speed for 99-96 speed weapons, +2 speed for 95-90 weapons, +3 speed for 89 and lower. Maybe leave the Miaodao as it is, possibly give +1 speed to the 1h swords that are 100-102~ speed.
The only concern I have, is how this affects internal balance for 1h swords. I would say leave the 96+ speed weapons alone, but I don't think you can give +2 speed to the slower weapons, without changing internal balance significantly. This is about speeding up melee, not about changing balance.
Best is a bit subjective. I think it's more or less just the easiest to land a hit with, because it's effectively a faster hitting attack direction than the other three direction, for multiple reasons. When the average player can block well, anything that makes it a lot easier to land a hit, becomes much more valuable that it otherwise would be.sounds nice
Here's my recent proposal to change this status quo.
No more speeding up especially not for the 1hers pls, just adjust all 3 stabs to be a bit slower and harder to land and it's fine
sounds niceNothing can be done in that area. 2h thrust originates from head level, you only need a 5-10 degree angle for a 2h to aim above an opponents head, for poles you need more like 60+ degrees.
lots of players stab from up to down, as far as I know there is no speed limit or angle limitation
have you ever consider that a problem with animation?
Yeah, fight Apsod, THEN tell me melee needs to faster.
There is armour available that's 0 weight, can't get any lower than that. Quite a few decent light armours up to 6-9 weight.
2 arrows is plenty. If you're fast, don't get hit.
Narrow the thrust sweetspot to 40-70%(from 35-75%), increase the release animation length(not the frames, the interval), then increase weapon speeds. This results in slower, more difficult thrusts that are a bit closer to how difficult it is to land side swings(40% through the anim, roughly, to reach the sweetspot), but also increases the speed of side swings, thus making it easier to land the non-thrust attacks. Should speed up melee a fair bit making it more enjoyable and help persuade some long time players to stick with the faster paced, more enjoyable gameplay(melee), rather than going ranged.Not bad, I hope this goes for all thrusts including the 2h thrust? Do you know what these sweetspot percentages were before you changed the polearm thrust? In my opinion the glancing late animation was good for polearms, too difficult on 1h and too easy on 2h. Hope these new late end values are going to be close to what polearm had before all of this.
lots of players stab from up to down, as far as I know there is no speed limit or angle limitationI think this is a fair compromise realism wise. It is of course unrealistic that a long spear can stab people when they are past the tip, but so is the fact that you can render yourself save from any stabs by leveling a weapon horizontally in front of you and that you are able to walk through extended spears because they have no collision detection. The lack of realism in these two things allow you to easily close in on someone with a long stab weapon in the first place. Applying realism selectively by disallowing close reach stabbing while allowing unrealisms when it comes to keeping people at a distance will effectively remove all potency of these weapons.
have you ever consider that a problem with animation?
No more speeding up especially not for the 1hers pls, just adjust all 3 stabs to be a bit slower and harder to land and it's fineThis. "Agiwhores" with fast weapons are already very hard to block with a high ping. Higher speeds could be detrimental to those with high pings.
This. "Agiwhores" with fast weapons are already very hard to block with a high ping. Higher speeds could be detrimental to those with high pings.The focus is on increasing the speeds for the slow weapons. Initially I proposed only increasing speeds for 95/96 speed and lower weapons, but then edited my post because I didn't want to screw up internal weapon balance. If we could deal in non integer stats, there would be no problem, but at some point you'll go from not getting anything at all to immediately getting +1/+2 speed, this WILL affect internal weapon balance.
cRPG was best when I had stable 60 fps on 222 man battle server (Pecores) which was full most of the time. There were archers, there were cav, infantry. It was completely unbalanced, but in a good way. Gold and XP system was better, there was no upkeep, I could put flamberge up my ass and stuff like that.go farm infarm somewhere else
But it was fun. Ever since then it's getting less and less fun. Turning into native with every single patch. Under the command of 22nd_Paul, man with 27 alts, always active, member of 22nd famous native clan.
All you bastards stating that the game was fine some time a go and that Tydeus is ruining it, perhaps actual boredom of the game and nostalgia glasses are more of a cause of this view, because I am pretty sure balance has gotten better. I know I friggin loved this game when I started playing, but it was an unbalanced, terribly designed piece of shit.
Dunno why you guys want this slow game to be any slower.
Your NA ranged seem not to do their job properly...
Your NA ranged seem not to do their job properly...
Honestly I preferred the way stabs worked before the turn rate nerf. Back then there seemed to be no early or late stabbing. You could spin your stab around but it would always hit at the same point in the animation. Back then I was able to chamber stabs purely through timing. I saw the attack release and knew how long it took for the hit to come. Which was necessary because you can't really rely on the visual cue when people can start stabs with their weapon inside your body. Nowadays the stab hit can come extremely early or extremely late, which prevents you from being able to rely on timing, while you still can't rely on the visual cue. This makes wiggled stabs near impossible to chamber. Whenever one of my stabs get chambered, I wiggle the next one and even though people usually retry the chamber, they rarely succeed.
I think 2h stab is the easiest to counter right now since the stun is long, you can force a stunned stab more easily since they can't turn as well, and there's less risk to getting hit by an extremely late stab as long as you're not running at high speed into it.you are obviously new around here
you are obviously new around here
2h stab op
ask panos he will tell you
I can never abuse stab 2h stun, perhaps it is due to my preference for slow weapons, but I couldn't really pull it off except on rare occasions with my MW German Poleaxe either. You block the stab and do a quick attack, that is all there is to it right?
They rarely ever even get stunned enough for a free hit if I chamber, but I think the chamber stun is shorter anyway, but I'd expect it to be not that much shorter that block-attack is better to punish stabs than chamberblocking.
Because of the delay from being online, if you release your block to attack right when it hits you (ping dependent, the timing may be slightly before), it'll still block and allow you to attack as soon as possible. Sounds dumb, but it works if you find your personal timing depending on your connection. It's difficult against the faster ones if it hits in the middle, but in general they're the easiest to force a block and get the timing right while they're hanging out at the end IMO. When people say to release your block after you hear the sound, it's often too late.
Because of the delay from being online, if you release your block to attack right when it hits you (ping dependent, the timing may be slightly before), it'll still block and allow you to attack as soon as possible. Sounds dumb, but it works if you find your personal timing depending on your connection. It's difficult against the faster ones if it hits in the middle, but in general they're the easiest to force a block and get the timing right while they're hanging out at the end IMO. When people say to release your block after you hear the sound, it's often too late.
I know I friggin loved this game when I started playing, but it was an unbalanced, terribly designed piece of shit.
Because of the delay from being online, if you release your block to attack right when it hits you (ping dependent, the timing may be slightly before), it'll still block and allow you to attack as soon as possible. Sounds dumb, but it works if you find your personal timing depending on your connection. It's difficult against the faster ones if it hits in the middle, but in general they're the easiest to force a block and get the timing right while they're hanging out at the end IMO. When people say to release your block after you hear the sound, it's often too late.
The focus is on increasing the speeds for the slow weapons. Initially I proposed only increasing speeds for 95/96 speed and lower weapons, but then edited my post because I didn't want to screw up internal weapon balance. If we could deal in non integer stats, there would be no problem, but at some point you'll go from not getting anything at all to immediately getting +1/+2 speed, this WILL affect internal weapon balance.
Do as you see fit Tydeus but incresing 1h speed won't leed to much balance or diversitiy on the contrary. It will push me personally even further away from melee.
Wanted to ask you one more thing what are the chances and techincal posibilities of implementing a skill requirement for the xbows?
thx
All of it because the better players chose 2h or polearms, and the bad players came here and cried for nerfs and shit just cause they couldnt fucking block down.
I chose for a long time to play 1h, I would still never sell my Short Sword, but its sat in the armory, I dont touch it. I never had a problem stabbing with it. I was a little butthurt when the short swords became zero slot and were buffed, cause it wasn't. EVERY other short sword was, except that one. I would have loomed the Sword of Whine, except that it had no sheath back then. Then it got a sheath and I felt cheated again. Then every other shortsword got buffed except mine, I felt cheated again, but still I had no problem killing 2heros, polespammers, shield noobs (If you use shield in melee, your a noob, end of story, autoblock is for singleplayer). But, if you balance everything for the worst players, then you end up where we are now:
Balanced, boring, less builds viable than ever before. When they nerfed agi ages ago, I QQ'd, but WHY when you chose to buff it did you nerf strength....
If your still releasing your block just before the sound, your a victim in EU fights. Im pretty sure you must be NA from the way you type on here. NA players might one day catch us, but we are still far far ahead, the guy you are fighting is blocking by instinct: 2 holds, dead. Please, if you are NA, I hate to generalise, but remember: your bad.
If your still releasing your block just before the sound, your a victim in EU fights. Im pretty sure you must be NA from the way you type on here. NA players might one day catch us, but we are still far far ahead, the guy you are fighting is blocking by instinct: 2 holds, dead. Please, if you are NA, I hate to generalise, but remember: your bad.
If your still releasing your block just before the sound, your a victim in EU fights. Im pretty sure you must be NA from the way you type on here. NA players might one day catch us, but we are still far far ahead, the guy you are fighting is blocking by instinct: 2 holds, dead. Please, if you are NA, I hate to generalise, but remember: your bad.
Problem I see right now about implementing a stat for xbows is HA. Right now, once the dust settles and you have won the battle, there will be between 1 and 10 horseranged my old friends riding around. They could still win the round, 100% undeserved, since they neither fight nor run any risk. So being able to grab a crossbow from the corpse of the bundle of sticks who bought and brought it and shoot down the turdface on the horse is invaluable, since without it they could continue to do what they are doing: being 100% safe from the fight while being able to 2 or 3 shot people.
Im not surprised the knights of ancient times despised even their own archers: they really are scum, killing men who have trained their whole lives to become the perfect weapon with impunity.
Crossbows sometimes give hardfighting players a tiny way to fight back. Sure, the HA will probably still kill you, but at least you have a tiny chance to shoot him or his horse.
Wanted to ask you one more thing what are the chances and techincal posibilities of implementing a skill requirement for the xbows?
Oh and also a bit of appreciation for you Tydeus to compensate for the ignorant hate present in this thread:Yeah for 1h and polearms, since they were the only melee weapons to get buffed, afaik.
I approve of most of your work and I think you are directly responsible for having actually sped up the game quit a bit already. Faster and easier animations on those that were pretty crappy to use for polearm and 1h, have noticably decreased the inability to bypass people's blocking skill that I have felt with slower weapons from these classes. I appreciate that you dare to touch the core of the game and try to improve upon it in this stage. The stabs have been overbuffed and they piss me the hell of so I hope you can tweak them soon, but when that is done I think you actually managed to improve the game.
I think 2h stab is the easiest to counter right now since the stun is long, you can force a stunned stab more easily since they can't turn as well, and there's less risk to getting hit by an extremely late stab as long as you're not running at high speed into it.Yup, agreed. Played with 1h on eu_3 and never rly had any problem with the stab stun on it. I had to gain a loom point recently, so i also played a lot with my polearm alt, and the problem stab stun was not as big a problem either.
Yeah for 1h and polearms, since they were the only melee weapons to get buffed, afaik.Yup, agreed. Played with 1h on eu_3 and never rly had any problem with the stab stun on it. I had to gain a loom point recently, so i also played a lot with my polearm alt, and the problem stab stun was not as big a problem either.The thrust stun from blocks was increased in the last patch for all melee types by urist. He made it so that 2h weapons got the longest stun duration.
The thrust stun from blocks was increased in the last patch for all melee types by urist. He made it so that 2h weapons got the longest stun duration.Alright, so my observations was true. Thanks for the info.
So you're stating you've taken the time to get to know all of NA and duel them multiple times thus concluding that we're all bad?
Or are you just talking out of your ass to try to impress people because you need attention and approval?
Sounds like you're mad cause bad bro.You're welcome. As an EU player I can also confirm that blindguy is horrible in melee, and used to kite with his superawesome cool meleearcher hybrid.
You're welcome. As an EU player I can also confirm that blindguy is horrible in melee, and used to kite with his superawesome cool meleearcher hybrid.
LOL your funny man, still butthurt cause I rape you every night once the HA leave huh?Aww look, someone is dreaming.
duel?He asked me for duels, when I said yes he went into a defensive trollish "oooh I'm to good to duel you maybe when your better" mode.
He asked me for duels, when I said yes he went into a defensive trollish "oooh I'm to good to duel you maybe when your better" mode.
You're welcome. As an EU player I can also confirm that blindguy is horrible in melee, and used to kite with his superawesome cool meleearcher hybrid.
You're welcome. As an EU player I can also confirm that blindguy is horrible in melee, and used to kite with his superawesome cool meleearcher hybrid.
The funny thing is that no matter how much you whine at 2h or 1h, those are polearmers (+cav) (at least EU side) that are the most efficient battle units. Chase, Teeth, Dieler, Knitler, Tor, Gurnisson, Polepoop, Blueberry_Muffin (when polearmer) +some others always get the greatest results on EU1. I know those are all great players. I don't want to derail this thread but can anyone EU-side remind me of any other player playing 1h or 2h that is as battle-efficient as those guys that I have mentioned? Maybe Saxon or Jackie?
In my humble opinion, those are polearmers that do best among all melee classes in a battle.
using a shield in melee is for women and children.I challenge you to duel, mkay.
Dunno why you guys want this slow game to be any slower.
I challenge you to duel, mkay.
and I would just kick you and stab your face. lets save ourselves the effort :DI would just stab you and kick your face, let's do it.
Will someone just please give Blindguy the "king of hyperbole" custom title already? So we save people the trouble of trying to actually converse with him?
I wish there was a way we could "mark" users on the forums with different titles (that only we can see).
You obviously play with a 15 ping...He did great on EU_1 the other day, with 150+ ping
He did great on EU_1 the other day, with 150+ ping
TRUE, he did. BUT, I will point out (not saying he was bad, he did really good), that he was using shield and niuweidao and warhammer and spamming ppl, but who can blame him, 1h is currently massively OP.The 1h stab was the only thing seriously buffed (the rightswing buff is hardly noticeable), so you're saying it's currently massively OP whilst talking about weapons barely affected by the buff?
The 1h stab was the only thing seriously buffed (the rightswing buff is hardly noticeable), so you're saying it's currently massively OP whilst talking about weapons barely affected by the buff?
The 1h stab was the only thing seriously buffed (the rightswing buff is hardly noticeable), so you're saying it's currently massively OP whilst talking about weapons barely affected by the buff?