Tydeus

[Gmnotutoo]

Dunno why you guys want this slow game to be any slower.

Increase katana speed.

[Phantasmal]

Your NA ranged seem not to do their job properly...

Nope, he is just the hardest to shoot because he pays attention to what is going on around him at all times.

[San]

Your NA ranged seem not to do their job properly...

Yup, most of NA's ranged heroes are xbows and some throwers. There are only like 3-4 great archers compared to 10+ great arb users. The random NA archers aren't that great. That's why my view is skewed towards light armor, since an arb or jarid is gonna hurt no matter what armour you wear.

Honestly I preferred the way stabs worked before the turn rate nerf. Back then there seemed to be no early or late stabbing. You could spin your stab around but it would always hit at the same point in the animation. Back then I was able to chamber stabs purely through timing. I saw the attack release and knew how long it took for the hit to come. Which was necessary because you can't really rely on the visual cue when people can start stabs with their weapon inside your body. Nowadays the stab hit can come extremely early or extremely late, which prevents you from being able to rely on timing, while you still can't rely on the visual cue. This makes wiggled stabs near impossible to chamber. Whenever one of my stabs get chambered, I wiggle the next one and even though people usually retry the chamber, they rarely succeed.

I'm still confused on what values were actually changed then. You used to be able to consistently chamber by timing an attack X milliseconds after they release the stab for all stab types. Only "problem" back then was the late hitbox on stabs/overheads (which would have naturally fixed turning). Now, you have to start your overhead before your opponent releases the stab to chamber a stab, while the timings for the other 3 directions are the same.

The most consistent counter to stabs for me is to use a fast weapon and punish the stab stun, although I have to be careful if it simply misses instead of getting blocked. Late stabs make it difficult to attack when an opponent misses, since you can get nicked by the very end when trying to attack, and there is barely any lag after missing a stab compared to getting it blocked. I suppose you can anticipate a miss with a held swing already prepared and quickly move in, but that's an unnecessary risk compared to the stab block stun.

I think 2h stab is the easiest to counter right now since the stun is long, you can force a stunned stab more easily since they can't turn as well, and there's less risk to getting hit by an extremely late stab as long as you're not running at high speed into it.

[Rebelyell]

I think 2h stab is the easiest to counter right now since the stun is long, you can force a stunned stab more easily since they can't turn as well, and there's less risk to getting hit by an extremely late stab as long as you're not running at high speed into it.

you are obviously new around here
2h stab op

ask panos he will tell you

[Gmnotutoo]

you are obviously new around here
2h stab op

ask panos he will tell you

We're NA and here we have the pleasure of ignoring panos.

[San]

It was in regards to getting free hits only. I think 2h is the easiest to get free hits off the stab. I think overall that all the stabs are close in power to each other.

[Teeth]

I can never abuse stab 2h stun, perhaps it is due to my preference for slow weapons, but I couldn't really pull it off except on rare occasions with my MW German Poleaxe either. You block the stab and do a quick attack, that is all there is to it right?

They rarely ever even get stunned enough for a free hit if I chamber, but I think the chamber stun is shorter anyway, but I'd expect it to be not that much shorter that block-attack is better to punish stabs than chamberblocking.

[Kafein]

I'm sorry but what is OP referring to exactly ? 1h stabs ?


My opinion on speeding up the game is that making "slow" weapons faster will only result in more glitching and more abusing of already broken weapons, as well as more spamming and boring gameplay with basically any weapon. If you really want to shorten melee fights, because that's exactly what speeding up the game is, then make people die in fewer hits. Right now the cost of surviving one more hit is much too low. This lets people play horribly and get away with it because of their tanking ability and the huge amount of time it takes to kill them even if they don't do anything correctly. The implications of this are at least twofold : that a player with more armor and more HP will survive much longer even if ultimately defeated and that more spamming and boring gameplay resulting from nigh invulnerability actually causes fights to draw longer because spamming restricts the offensive options of the other fighter.

My solution to this problem is not to give more footwork maluses to people with lots of armor and HP, it is to change the way armor works, and increase the damage stats of melee weapons. Right now due to the old change of soak and reduce, armor roughly multiplies your HP pool by a certain amount and has little effect beyond that. What about reducing armor ratings a little bit in exchange for increased resistance against knockdown depending on armor weight ? What about reducing the chance of projectile stun based on armor weight too ? I don't think the mod is balanced in a way that acknowledges how huge the difference between surviving two hits and surviving three hits is, let alone surviving 8 or more, and what impact it has on ranged versus melee balance.

[San]

I can never abuse stab 2h stun, perhaps it is due to my preference for slow weapons, but I couldn't really pull it off except on rare occasions with my MW German Poleaxe either. You block the stab and do a quick attack, that is all there is to it right?

They rarely ever even get stunned enough for a free hit if I chamber, but I think the chamber stun is shorter anyway, but I'd expect it to be not that much shorter that block-attack is better to punish stabs than chamberblocking.

Because of the delay from being online, if you release your block to attack right when it hits you (ping dependent, the timing may be slightly before), it'll still block and allow you to attack as soon as possible. Sounds dumb, but it works if you find your personal timing depending on your connection. It's difficult against the faster ones if it hits in the middle, but in general they're the easiest to force a block and get the timing right while they're hanging out at the end IMO. When people say to release your block after you hear the sound, it's often too late.

[Gmnotutoo]

Because of the delay from being online, if you release your block to attack right when it hits you (ping dependent, the timing may be slightly before), it'll still block and allow you to attack as soon as possible. Sounds dumb, but it works if you find your personal timing depending on your connection. It's difficult against the faster ones if it hits in the middle, but in general they're the easiest to force a block and get the timing right while they're hanging out at the end IMO. When people say to release your block after you hear the sound, it's often too late.

I'm a notorious quick blocker and can vouch for this move.

[Kafein]

Because of the delay from being online, if you release your block to attack right when it hits you (ping dependent, the timing may be slightly before), it'll still block and allow you to attack as soon as possible. Sounds dumb, but it works if you find your personal timing depending on your connection. It's difficult against the faster ones if it hits in the middle, but in general they're the easiest to force a block and get the timing right while they're hanging out at the end IMO. When people say to release your block after you hear the sound, it's often too late.

Releasing blocks slightly before blocking works when you have stable and low enough ping for the allowance to be consistent. But it also makes you very vulnerable to holds or feints.

[BlindGuy]

[Prpavi]

The focus is on increasing the speeds for the slow weapons. Initially I proposed only increasing speeds for 95/96 speed and lower weapons, but then edited my post because I didn't want to screw up internal weapon balance. If we could deal in non integer stats, there would be no problem, but at some point you'll go from not getting anything at all to immediately getting +1/+2 speed, this WILL affect internal weapon balance.

Do as you see fit Tydeus but incresing 1h speed won't leed to much balance or diversitiy on the contrary. It will push me personally even further away from melee.

Wanted to ask you one more thing what are the chances and techincal posibilities of implementing a skill requirement for the xbows?

thx

[BlindGuy]

Do as you see fit Tydeus but incresing 1h speed won't leed to much balance or diversitiy on the contrary. It will push me personally even further away from melee.

Wanted to ask you one more thing what are the chances and techincal posibilities of implementing a skill requirement for the xbows?

thx

Problem I see right now about implementing a stat for xbows is HA. Right now, once the dust settles and you have won the battle, there will be between 1 and 10 horseranged my old friends riding around. They could still win the round, 100% undeserved, since they neither fight nor run any risk. So being able to grab a crossbow from the corpse of the bundle of sticks who bought and brought it and shoot down the turdface on the horse is invaluable, since without it they could continue to do what they are doing: being 100% safe from the fight while being able to 2 or 3 shot people.

Im not surprised the knights of ancient times despised even their own archers: they really are scum, killing men who have trained their whole lives to become the perfect weapon with impunity.

Crossbows sometimes give hardfighting players a tiny way to fight back. Sure, the HA will probably still kill you, but at least you have a tiny chance to shoot him or his horse.

[Phantasmal]

All of it because the better players chose 2h or polearms, and the bad players came here and cried for nerfs and shit just cause they couldnt fucking block down.

I chose for a long time to play 1h, I would still never sell my Short Sword, but its sat in the armory, I dont touch it. I never had a problem stabbing with it. I was a little butthurt when the short swords became zero slot and were buffed, cause it wasn't. EVERY other short sword was, except that one. I would have loomed the Sword of Whine, except that it had no sheath back then. Then it got a sheath and I felt cheated again. Then every other shortsword got buffed except mine, I felt cheated again, but still I had no problem killing 2heros, polespammers, shield noobs (If you use shield in melee, your a noob, end of story, autoblock is for singleplayer). But, if you balance everything for the worst players, then you end up where we are now:

Balanced, boring, less builds viable than ever before. When they nerfed agi ages ago, I QQ'd, but WHY when you chose to buff it did you nerf strength....

If your still releasing your block just before the sound, your a victim in EU fights. Im pretty sure you must be NA from the way you type on here. NA players might one day catch us, but we are still far far ahead, the guy you are fighting is blocking by instinct: 2 holds, dead. Please, if you are NA, I hate to generalise, but remember: your bad.

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