Tydeus

[BlindGuy]

WHY did you break it Tydeus? WHY?

[BlueKnight]

C'mon, Tydeus does great job. You can't blame him for making an animation match the attack. It's this stupid way the warband deals with stabs that's the problem. Maybe we could seek the solution somewhere among the stat-lines, dunno.

Tydeus at least responds even to 'stupid' topics/posts and gives some sort of official answer quite quickly, which is quite a new thing for crpg community.
Paul also did great job with the dodge when knocked down. One of the very few non-broken things in c-rpg :-) Also nudges got balanced quite nicely which gives a lot of fun if you push someone off the edge etc.

I am not sure what to think about these stabs though. They seem so superior because they are the fastest of them attacks we have. Dunno what it would be if all the attack directions were nearly as fast  . Probably a shield era because manual blocking would be 1337...

Making stabs slower could decrease deadliness of the combat, which we do not want.

(click to show/hide)

EDIT: FIX FLAMBARD!

[Panos_]

I am not sure what to think about these stabs though. They seem so superior because they are the fastest of them attacks we have. Dunno what it would be if all the attack directions were nearly as fast  . Probably a shield era because manual blocking would be 1337...

Yes indeed, the lolstab is broken as hell 

[Lactating Vegetables]

Derped

[Rebelyell]

as long as stab will be the best atack at any range melee gameplay will suffer

stab rotation should be 1/2 once again in my opinion and probably all classes should have different formulas for that

[Tydeus]

as long as stab will be the best atack at any range melee gameplay will suffer

Best is a bit subjective. I think it's more or less just the easiest to land a hit with, because it's effectively a faster hitting attack direction than the other three directions, for multiple reasons. When the average player can block well, anything that makes it a lot easier to land a hit, becomes much more valuable than it otherwise would be.

Here's my recent proposal to change this status quo.

Narrow the thrust sweetspot to 40-70%(from 35-75%), increase the release animation length(not the frames, the interval), then increase weapon speeds. This results in slower, more difficult thrusts that are a bit closer to how difficult it is to land side swings(40% through the anim, roughly, to reach the sweetspot), but also increases the speed of side swings, thus making it easier to land the non-thrust attacks. Should speed up melee a fair bit making it more enjoyable and help persuade some long time players to stick with the faster paced, more enjoyable gameplay(melee), rather than going ranged.

[BlindGuy]

(click to show/hide)

C'mon, Tydeus does great job. You can't blame him for making an animation match the attack. It's this stupid way the warband deals with stabs that's the problem. Maybe we could seek the solution somewhere among the stat-lines, dunno.

Tydeus at least responds even to 'stupid' topics/posts and gives some sort of official answer quite quickly, which is quite a new thing for crpg community.
Paul also did great job with the dodge when knocked down. One of the very few non-broken things in c-rpg :-) Also nudges got balanced quite nicely which gives a lot of fun if you push someone off the edge etc.

I am not sure what to think about these stabs though. They seem so superior because they are the fastest of them attacks we have. Dunno what it would be if all the attack directions were nearly as fast  . Probably a shield era because manual blocking would be 1337...

Making stabs slower could decrease deadliness of the combat, which we do not want.

(click to show/hide)

EDIT: FIX FLAMBARD!

No, stabs arent the worst, its just the lack of balance: was killed in 3 hits in 56 head armor, 65 bodyarmor, by a zero slot 1hander, with swings. Asked the guy: build? 15/21...

So with 15 str he can do massive damage and with massive speed. Ok, so can polearms and 2handers, but they trade nice range and damage for not having a shield, so they are victims of archers and ganks where they get overwhelmed. Shielders...

SHielders DONT have to block, can rush straight at archers, and now can outrange, outspam, and outdamage other classes.

Tydeus tweaked all 1h sweetspots, he must have, else why, when I had no problem blocking leftswing spam before patch, am I constantly being hit by spammed attacks that dont ever glance?

So, I kinda thought, maybe Im being silly, MAYBE ITS ME, convincing myself its too fast. SO I played on my SIX STRENGH thrower, 2 powerstrike, using my franciscas in melee: Seldom glance unless its overhead on the very top tier helmets, leftswing always beautiful slash, kill them in very few hits....

Now, Ive played 1hand for a long time, so I got my ranges and stuff down, but its rediculous.

It simply should not be happening.

EDIT: Read Tydues reply:

NO! Stop buffing 1hand. It was always easy to land stabs, and leftswing spam has always been piss easy too. Then you made it tard-level, buff it again and you effectively remove other classes from game.

You were trusted to try to balance the mod, not to kill it.

Remove forcefield from all shields, ALL OF IT, expecially on horseback. Then give 2h its leftswing back. Then put polestun back its previous time. THEN buff 1hander again. Dont just keep fucking the same thing over and over.

[Prpavi]

No more speeding up especially not for the 1hers pls, just adjust all 3 stabs to be a bit slower and harder to land and it's fine

[Tydeus]

Tydeus tweaked all 1h sweetspots, he must have, else why, when I had no problem blocking leftswing spam before patch, am I constantly being hit by spammed attacks that dont ever glance?

Except that I didn't.

[Tydeus]

NO! Stop buffing 1hand.

I should have posted the entirety of my proposal...

Deciding how to increase weapon speeds without changing internal balance could be difficult, but here is what I imagine it looking like:

+1 speed for 99-96 speed weapons, +2 speed for 95-90 weapons, +3 speed for 89 and lower. Maybe leave the Miaodao as it is, possibly give +1 speed to the 1h swords that are 100-102~ speed.

The only concern I have, is how this affects internal balance for 1h swords. I would say leave the 96+ speed weapons alone, but I don't think you can give +2 speed to the slower weapons, without changing internal balance significantly. This is about speeding up melee, not about changing balance.

Meaning I'm aware of the 1h speed "issue".

[San]

Dunno why you guys want this slow game to be any slower.

[Rebelyell]

Best is a bit subjective. I think it's more or less just the easiest to land a hit with, because it's effectively a faster hitting attack direction than the other three direction, for multiple reasons. When the average player can block well, anything that makes it a lot easier to land a hit, becomes much more valuable that it otherwise would be.

Here's my recent proposal to change this status quo.

sounds nice

lots of players stab from up to down, as far as I know there is no speed limit or angle limitation
have you ever consider that a problem with animation?

[Leshma]

One handers are fine, but without shield. Shield makes thing too easy, especially in heavy lag environments like typical huge strat battle where pick spammers take the cake.

Seriously, find a way to buff shields defensive ability (blocking, good against projectiles) but for the love of god nerf shielder's dueling capacity.

[BlindGuy]

No more speeding up especially not for the 1hers pls, just adjust all 3 stabs to be a bit slower and harder to land and it's fine

THIS.

1handers where never weak, but for some reason you... you just made them godlike. I like to play all the classes, I hate being forced to use 1hand to counter 1handers

Because thats what it is, CURRENTLY there are only 2 options:

1: use 1handers

2: backpeddle

BACKPEDDLING IS NOT FUN, at least for me, stop forcing me to play ranged game with 1handers, they were always strongest defensively and now you made them gods. Honestly

I apreciate that you think you are helping, but FUCK YOU Tydeus.

Ok and now I saw your LAST reply:

If you think melee is too slow, please duel me for a while. Fight anyone who is fast. Fight Apsod.

Yeah, fight Apsod, THEN tell me melee needs to faster.

You fixing a problem that isnt there.

[Tydeus]

sounds nice

lots of players stab from up to down, as far as I know there is no speed limit or angle limitation
have you ever consider that a problem with animation?

Nothing can be done in that area. 2h thrust originates from head level, you only need a 5-10 degree angle for a 2h to aim above an opponents head, for poles you need more like 60+ degrees.