Turn rate does not add to speed bonus/damage. It lets you correct the arc of the swing if you have a feel for sweet spots, but that's about it.
BTW what browser do you use, Rufio?
You always got the same stupid people that always say there class is UP and other classes are OP , even after 3 years with a fuck load of changes alread..
explain how turning while the swing is released dousnt ad to the speed/damage?Speed bonus isn't based on player rotation rate.
explain how turning while the swing is released dousnt ad to the speed/damage?
I play as 2h and I must say I quite welcome the new 1h stab animation, makes it a more equal playing field imo because lets face it, usually those with the most kills (at least on siege) tend to be 2 handers or those super speedy awlpike/ pole users :) (from my experience on the whole).
All three stabs are equally wrong.
1/10th the length of 2h, half the damage, shield weighs >9000 kg ....
1/10th the length of 2h, half the damage, shield weighs >9000 kg ....You never have to worry about blocking , your thrust+ speed bonus 2 hits people , Certain 1handers can outrange 2handers. You're way better in big blob fights since you don't have to worry about certain stabs coming from behind enemies or multiple attacks on you not to mention you're way safer from xbowmen archers and throwers.
Here you go: http://forum.melee.org/the-chamber-of-tears/ (http://forum.melee.org/the-chamber-of-tears/)
This. Melee balance is fine, there are only some items that could need a little nerf. All three stabs are equally strong.
Let's be honest, Rufio is just mad because the overall skill level got higher while he got worse at the same time. Now there is nothing left for him besides bitching about 1h. Of course you can't chamber a 1h thrust if you suck at chambering in general. Just block it and stop crying. :P
it should be nerfed by buffing other weapon classesHeavyyyyy Laaaance
Also the ammount of shileders atm is not caused so much by 30% higher turn rate or better stab, it's the counter that is missing.
Think about it lance cav is practically non existent so are crushtrough classes. The only thing to counter the shielders (as melee) are kicks and nudges, but people want them nerfed too.
i don't understand this, i get easily better kdr's on my 2h alt than on my shielder main, which is 7 levels higher ...KDR says nothing , you got higher damage on 2handers so you got a better shot at making the finishing blow.
2h is honestly so much easier if you have the slightest clue how to play passive
i don't understand this, i get easily better kdr's on my 2h alt than on my shielder main, which is 7 levels higher ...exactly this .. to defeat a shielder / a group (with perhaps other support ) you are deemed to hide and play passive .. until you find a moment for successful backstab or singled out player .... trying to play agressive or active is 90% team death warrant .. for most situations and team compositions
2h is honestly so much easier if you have the slightest clue how to play passive
i don't understand this, i get easily better kdr's on my 2h alt than on my shielder main, which is 7 levels higher ...
2h is honestly so much easier if you have the slightest clue how to play passive
i don't understand this, i get easily better kdr's on my 2h alt than on my shielder main, which is 7 levels higher ...
30% more turn rate, meaning more damage , less glancing, and faster swings ( cant really miss overhead anymore ). incredibly broken strong stab atm. nudge that staggers long enough to get a free hit if done right, dousnt suffer a stabblockstun, ballanced blunts with high knockdown chance, piercing swing weapons that shine in clusterfucks, specially when the leftswing autoaims for the head. all this while being able to use a shield or a ranged weapon. shieldbash that is very effective if utelized in teamplay. only thing they lack is long reach. but hey they can close gaps fast with shields, and the stab is effectinve up untill the tip of the animation. kicks are a decent counter but only 1vs1 and still risky, simply a no go in teamfights since kicks hold u in place... weapon stuns work to but arent that reliable..visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Also the ammount of shileders atm is not caused so much by 30% higher turn rate or better stab, it's the counter that is missing.
Think about it lance cav is practically non existent so are crushtrough classes. The only thing to counter the shielders (as melee) are kicks and nudges, but people want them nerfed too.
I think this comment is true about 90% of classes, almost any imbalance typically can be fixed by introducing a sort of 'predator' to said class.
Predator for shielders is cav, crushthrough, and shieldbreaking weapons.Kicks are your own fault for walking in to them and everyone walks into one every now and then, stabbing with a 1hander fucked over all kickers for me. As for shieldbreaking weapons they are quite easy to avoid and if your shield breaks it´s not the end of the world if you´ve got some good manual blocking skills.
Shieldbreaking weapons are available to all classes.
As a shielder for a dozen gens, I can tell you that shieldbreaking weapons make a difference. Crack that shell! Also, kicks are a royal (and often fatal) pain in the ass.
Ok, I will stop giving advice for my enemies now.
30% more turn rate
, meaning more damage
, less glancing
, and faster swings
( cant really miss overhead anymore )
. incredibly broken strong stab atm.
nudge that staggers long enough to get a free hit if done right
, dousnt suffer a stabblockstun,
ballanced blunts
with high knockdown chance,
piercing swing weapons that shine in clusterfucks
, specially when the leftswing autoaims for the head.
all this while being able to use a shield
or a ranged weapon.
shieldbash that is very effective if utelized in teamplay.
only thing they lack is long reach.
but hey they can close gaps fast with shields,
and the stab is effectinve up untill the tip of the animation.
kicks are a decent counter but only 1vs1 and still risky, simply a no go in teamfights since kicks hold u in place...
weapon stuns work to but arent that reliable..
any feedback to disprove the opness of this class is welcome.
Kicks are your own fault for walking in to them and everyone walks into one every now and then, stabbing with a 1hander fucked over all kickers for me. As for shieldbreaking weapons they are quite easy to avoid and if your shield breaks it´s not the end of the world if you´ve got some good manual blocking skills.
Kicks can be because of the skill of the kicker (it takes some skill to time it right, trust me I suck at it) OR the "fault" of the kicked. If you are using a short 1h (which is most, but not all of the good ones) you are automatically getting into kick range. This is an added threat that a shielder has to deal with. It breaks the turtling and can be used very effectively.Kicks are from a whole different dimension, sooo many factors with them. But as with most combat, everything is someone's fault.
Shield-breaking weapons will not auto-win against a shielder. I said they help...and they do. Most shielders don't have above average manual blocking skills, but plenty still do. Still, breaking the shield helps.
Use whatever tools you have at your disposal. Hey, I'm a shielder and I'm telling you what works against me. Take it or leave it. :)
Kicks can be because of the skill of the kicker (it takes some skill to time it right, trust me I suck at it) OR the "fault" of the kicked. If you are using a short 1h (which is most, but not all of the good ones) you are automatically getting into kick range. This is an added threat that a shielder has to deal with. It breaks the turtling and can be used very effectively.When I was a shielder I hardly ever got kicked, try jumping when doing rightswings and do irratic moment try not to be predictable also thrusting every once in a while helps alot.
Shield-breaking weapons will not auto-win against a shielder. I said they help...and they do. Most shielders don't have above average manual blocking skills, but plenty still do. Still, breaking the shield helps.
Use whatever tools you have at your disposal. Hey, I'm a shielder and I'm telling you what works against me. Take it or leave it. :)
Which is a marginally useful tool if we consider good players that additionally slows you down and makes you lose half a dozen skill points.
Sooooo a stab on par with what a pole arm and 2h sword can do is overpowered? Your fucking silly. Should of known when a man uses a peter pan character as his name
30% more turn rate, meaning more damage, ...lol, rufio are you tripping? 1-handers have much less effective spots in sideswings, compared to your favorite class -- aren't you 2h? talking about turn-speed? jesus christ, man, stop smoking, no offense.
i agree that longswords are bs, and polearms stab also need a rework, but what people dont seem to realize is im posting this from a battle perspective where all classes are intwined, and not from a dual perspective. like other people have stated 1handers dont have a real weakness anymore. and even 1 vs 1 they are probably the winning class considering they have the longer nudge. im also not calling for a huge nerf, only thing i really want is the stab animation tweaked so its not as rediculous as it is now. most unbiased players can agree on this, i just mentioned all the other things to put into perspective how wellrounded 1handers actually are, and to justify the tweak on the stab.
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as a stabby 1 hander i have 0 problem with cav, srsly cav is like the most nerfed class in this game.
and i use a heavy greatsword, so my turn speed is pretty shit, my stabs also fucks me over alot because the stun on them when glancing or blocked is very punishing, wtich i have not experienced when playing as 1 hander.
and you seem to heavely overlook the fact that 1 handers can block ranged witch is freakin huge in battle, ofc you run arround naked with a sword so hey you wouldnt know....
1 handers can facehug stab way more effective than 2handers asfar as ive experienced, maybe the longswords and shorter are more effective than what i use
. alot of polearms are also great on facehug stabs.
I read what Kafein said and think: holy fuck! these 1handers are really underpowered, shitty weapons, stun, useless overweigth shields, have a mercy devs and buff shielders goddamnit! :shock:
Moral of the story? We are all biased.
Heavyyyyy Laaaance
This is me posting in a QQfio thread
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explain how turning while the swing is released dousnt ad to the speed/damage?as far as I understand it, the turnspeed of your character (mouse) simply does not influence the damage output, but your character movement (WASD) does. so, either way, long weapons have an advantage if you utilize the length and try to hit your enemy while circling/side-strafing. as you may have noticed in your own playstyle keeping the walking speed up when around other players, and hitting them ever so slightly will do enough damage to eventually kill him. this is also why 1-handers are NOT benefitted as much as 2-handers and polearms in this regard -- they simply can't stay away to circle the enemy, they will have to engage. and they also don't have such wide areas to cover with one swing, and this is one very important disadvantage if you think about it, as with more speed and turning speed hits become very hard to evade. you can easily avoid my 1h swing and still hit me when you move just one step.
and you seem to heavely overlook the fact that 1 handers can block ranged witch is freakin huge in battle, ...aren't you using a shield too before going into melee? or is my memory flawed?
Why hasn't this been moved to the chamber of tears?
Because what's the use of a forum if we can't use it to discuss things ?
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silence maggot
I wouldnt call it OP, but the stab is just frustrating as hell. Some 1h players have taken the privilege of doing 90% of their attacks as stabs. Fuck those players!Those are the 1h players with 31 pierce 26 cut weapons, and I still stabbed about 75% of the time before the animation was changed, the 1h rightswing needs to be longer than the 1h stab, besides that, things are fine.
i agree that longswords are bs, and polearms stab also need a reworkSo you're basically saying that all weapons that aren't Greatswords and axes need nerfs, hmm, I wonder what weapon class you use on your level 35 main.
Unless the EU meta is as different from NA as Venus is from Earth, I'm not sure where this idea that 1h is far and away the most effective of class of weapon in large-scale engagements comes from. Consider the following:
Battle 1 (castle siege):(click to show/hide)
Battle 2 (village attack):(click to show/hide)
Battle 3 (village attack):(click to show/hide)
These are the three largest Strategus battles in which I have participated recently. None of them were "dominated" by 1hs; quite the opposite, in fact.
-In the first battle listed above, none of the players in the top 5 for either team were 1h. (Lumetta is a 2h, Firebus is a 2h, Voester is a polearmer, Duckles is a polearmer, and Sparvico is a polearmer. On the other team, Jack1 was a 2h at the time (now 1h), the Gobblin King is a 2h, Tretter is a 2h, Bonz is a 2h, and Canary is a polearmer.)
-In the second battle listed above, Occitan Arowaine is the only 1h player in the top 5 of either team. (Arowaine's score is quite impressive, especially considering the side he fought for didn't actually win, but the top player on the other team, the polearmer Leman_Russ, had almost double the number of kills that he did.)
-In the third battle listed above, Arowaine is again the only 1h player in the top 5 of either team. (As for the other players, Kaoklai is a 2h, Zulu_Donkeybulge aka Kesh is a 2h, and GiggleKnight_of_TKoV is a polearmer/thrower. The rest are mentioned above.)
These are pretty normal scoreboards for NA. With few exceptions, long weapons/high damage weapons make the greatest contributions in our group fights. That said, I don't think that this somehow means that 1h is weak, less important, more difficult to play, or anything like that, because it is not. I recognize that it just occupies a separate role on the battlefield (leading an advance, fragmenting the enemy blob so that 2hs and polearms can do their job more easily, harassing ranged, dying less often in general etc) due to the fact that it has different strengths as a playstyle.
All of you who are being very vehement partisans for or against a particular class, weapon, or whatever should step back and consider whether you are being willfully blind to the strengths of what you play while focusing excessively on the strengths of what you do not.
Rufio, make sure you cry in a bucket so you can reuse the water later.
A single 5 gallon bucket may be too small, so make sure to grab two
chamber U NUBS CHAMBER!You're not even a real PK.
GOSH DARN IT!
If you know what to look for, stabs are pretty easy to avoid. Certain weapons are better for stabbing, so the person using it will probably stab a lot. If you still find you're getting stabbed a lot, you either don't have enough athletics, or you're not s-keying enough.
Not sure if the meta is very different but apparently EU has higher reasoning skill. Strategus battle killboards as a balance argument and it gets fucking upvotes. Tell me if I should point out the flaws with this, to me they are so blatantly obvious I can't be bothered.(click to show/hide)
Okay, now I think the game is balanced according to battle. It is the game mode where every single class is somewhat viable and playable, from horse thrower to shielder. Now let us think of some differences between battle and a Strategus battle.Biggest burn I´ve seen in a while, keep up the good work.
1) Armour. This difference might not be as severe on NA as on EU, but the average armour in Strat is like 70+, from what I have played on NA 1 and NA Strat, there is probably a 15 armour difference for you at least as well. Immediately reduces perceived effectiveness of any cut weapons.
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=strategusbattlesarchive#!?page=strategusinfobattleroster&id=5269
Two top players on the left and top player on the right are polearmers. Does this mean that polearms are OP, nope, it means that they used a 36p awlpike, which is extremely good at racking up kills against plate. They are also probably the best 3 awlpikers in the game, which brings me two my next point. (Also, Ferdinand in the third spot is me on a level 28 1h no shield, no brag)
Biggest burn I´ve seen in a while, keep up the good work.
2) Individual player skill, who gets the top spot just depends on who's playing.
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=strategusbattlesarchive&view=list#!?page=strategusinfobattleroster&id=5128
Top 3 on the left are 2h, top 5-6 on the right are shielders I believe. Yet I can almost guarantee you that if any of the 3 awlpikers mentioned above would have played, they would've taken the top spots.
3) Most importantly, the fact that there are respawns, that there is organization and communication. Pike is the best weapon for me in a Strat battle, simply because I always get to use it in the perfect situation. Surrounded by closely packed teammates, fighting a group of enemies, that situation lasts for an hour straight in a good battle. How is that even remotely close to what happens on a battle server. Or the respawning cav, which consistently harrasses the infantry. Ranged usually plays way less of a decisive role in strat fights, you never have to clutch a round against multiple class enemies. Strat battles, let alone Strat sieges just have very little to do with pub battle.
I have not nearly exhausted all the points I can make on this, but arguing that 1h is not OP because they don't top in three posted Strat battles is beyond retarded. Shielders are the class that benefits least from Strat battles of the main classes. Worst cav defence, there is cav all over the place. Best ranged defence, ranged often plays a minor role and there are respawns which makes getting shot for half your hp less significant. Lowest damage, which makes killing 70 body armour people a slow process compared to 41p morningstars or 36p awlpikes. Lowest reach, which in consistent group fights filled with pokey weapons makes it very hard to dish out damage, again the consistent group fights are caused by respawning and commanding and are minor part of the average battle round. 1h is a good 1 vs 1 class, but there barely are 1 vs 1's.
Ever noticed how high damage weapons (awlpikes, great mauls) get a lot of kills and low points and low damage weapons (1h) get a lot of score and fewer points? If one were to look at Strat battles for balance, throwers would require a buff, horse archers, any agi build, any cut weapon, any light horse, should I go on? By the way, I am not arguing that 1h is overpowered, just critical of the argument used.