I believe the hoplite takes a bigger damage nerf when equiped with a shield than 1 handers right?
~20 blunt is also on par with 30 cut,
Nope? There's no "damage nerf" as far as i know.
Pierce damage is the best damage and does more if you hit someones head if I am not mistaken.All damage types get the same bonus from a headshot.
All damage types get the same bonus from a headshot.
For some reason I thought pierce got more of a bonus.
Everyone is saying that Tydeus ruined the game with it. I think it just needs to be tweaked further maybe buffing previously nerfed weapons around the new 1h stab.
no
All damage types get the same bonus from a headshot.
randomized_damage = (random.random() * 0.1 + 0.9) * raw_damage
soaked_damage = randomized_damage - randomized_soak
if (soaked_damage < 0.0):
soaked_damage = 0.0
randomized_reduction = math.exp((random.random() * 0.55 + 0.45) * reduction_factor * 0.014)
reduced_damage = (1.0 - 1.0 / randomized_reduction) * soaked_damage
if (reduction_factor < 0.00001):
reduced_damage = 0.0
damage_difference = round(reduced_damage + randomized_soak)
effective_damage = randomized_damage - damage_difference
if hit_bone == head:
effective_damage *= 1.2
if item_is_ranged:
effective_damage *= 1.75
elif hit_bone == calf or hit_bone == thigh:
effective_damage *= 0.9
effective_damage = clamp(effective_damage, 0.0, 500.0)
They should not deal damage when they have stopped moving
It doesn't really make sense that people complain about 1h facehug stabs when polearms have always been able to do just that. I don't think anybody would argue it is normal to hit for full damage with a long spear yet not with a short sword when your target is 10 centimeters away.
Your comment is "L2P" basically. Want to elaborate? I've played 1 hand with 1 WPF several times after this change and it is a super fast and long stab while maintaining the swings with a shield. Its like a hoplite with swings
I've done 1 wpf plenty with this new stab and I can tell you it is very fast still. If you think any 1 hander is slow you aren't used to using actual slow weapons. I'm not going to go into how well I do, I'll just say I do as well as with my 160 polearm
It doesn't really make sense that people complain about 1h facehug stabs when polearms have always been able to do just that. I don't think anybody would argue it is normal to hit for full damage with a long spear yet not with a short sword when your target is 10 centimeters away.
i can assure you you will do horribly with 1 wpf, unless you go full agility and dagger. even at 140wpf in 1h sometimes feel slow with my long espada.
anyone who has met longsword spammer as 1h knows they have no hope of beating them with with low wpf.
I've done 1 wpf plenty with this new stab and I can tell you it is very fast still. If you think any 1 hander is slow you aren't used to using actual slow weapons. I'm not going to go into how well I do, I'll just say I do as well as with my 160 polearm
I've done 1 wpf plenty with this new stab and I can tell you it is very fast still. If you think any 1 hander is slow you aren't used to using actual slow weapons. I'm not going to go into how well I do, I'll just say I do as well as with my 160 polearmI´m going to have to say Grumbs went like 22-2 with 1 wpp long espada, just proving his point.
1 person going 22-2 one time doesn't prove much. If it was THAT op most 1h players would be raping everyone. That said the high pierce 1h could use a slight nerf.
i can assure you you will do horribly with 1 wpf, unless you go full agility and dagger. even at 140wpf in 1h sometimes feel slow with my long espada.
This is not true. Sometimes after a few duels ppl take my 1h sword instead of their 2h/pole and quite often they're much more dangerous than with their primary weapon.
As a 1h/shielder I don't see side sword or any other stabbing 1h sword OP per se (some of them can be OP in comparison to other 1h swords though). I get more or less the same scores with niuweidao, scimitar, grosse and side sword, if any of them I'd say that niuweidao is most effective and "OP", not side sword. So from my point of view 1h stab is hardly game breaking, especially in comparison to insta pole stab attacking from the air :P But, well, I don't play any other class, so quite possible that I'm biased :P
we are talking about 1wpf
This is not true. Sometimes after a few duels ppl take my 1h sword instead of their 2h/pole and quite often they're much more dangerous than with their primary weapon.
I doubt that dedicated 2h or polearmers have more than 1 wpf in 1h :rolleyes:
I went 22-1 with a 1 wpf long spear, it doesn't mean the long spear is OP.
And no 1h stabs do not "prepare" any faster than polearms. The stab animation itself is faster, but the inactive time it the exact same. Without armor I can facehug a long spear user, he only needs to tap RMB to almost immediately inflict damage to me, because the instant his attack becomes active it connects with me.
But you're lying, because with 1WPF it glances most of the time. About the first part, that is.
On the second part, you're doing a shitty job face hugging, so you're actually only hugging the space in front of his face.
Also, being naked should not be considered the norm for balancing. I'm sure Tydeus can pull average armor rating.
The 1h thrust needs a nerf, atm there is no sense in ever rightswinging if your weapon got a pointy end and is used with one hand, amassed at the amount of bullshit I'm hearing about it though.
You can't stab when the weapon is retracting, the moment it starts glancing with the current animation is right before it is at 100% reach, which is for how long I believe stabs should be able to stab, before the buff the animation was also beyond retarded, starting to glance 50-60% into the reach it gives you. Damage is only really strong on espadas, sideswords, and scots, which (besides the sideswords) will deal very low amounts of damage swinging, and even with my 31 pierce I've yet to onehit someone with decent amounts of armor on my 4ps, 181 wpf, char (cannot say the same for my 3ps godknowshowmuchwpfand10ath 2h with a katana). Stab based 1hs are still not overpowered, they went from low to top tier 1h swords, true, but they're still only equal to the great swinging swords. You can't facehug stab someone without twirling a bit, same bit you need to twirl to do it with a 2h sword, the 1h animation makes that tiny bit of twirling extremely natural though.
It's all left swings overheads and stabs right now. People don't even bother to feint anything else.Fixed, and before it was all left swings, overheads, and rightswings for anyone who didn't use a dagger or a stabbing weapon, which at the time was about 95% of the EU 1hs.
Fixed, and before it was all left swings, overheads, and rightswings for anyone who didn't use a dagger or a stabbing weapon, which at the time was about 95% of the EU 1hs.
Ideally the nerf should either be:I think that the stats on the stab weapons being too good is an internal balance issue (along with spathovaklion), and once that's fixed we can focus on global changes. I believe that 1c swing should = 1p stab for a fair tradeoff. I think non-stab focused 1hs have bad enough pierce stabs that they don't need a nerf there.
Flat -1, 2 or even 3 pierce damage on all 1hs, nerfing just a few 1hs stab would be idiotic, and shit on internal balance, either nerf all the stabs or leave them all alone.
Do a completely new animation, that extends only 75% or so as much as the current one does, but keeps the same overall speed as the current anim (so that you won't glance while still stabbing and not retracting).
Slow down the time it takes to prepare the stab quite a bit, making it as powerful as now for range stabbing, but easy to spam at facehug range.
I disagree. Overhead and right swing are very good nowadays.
I think that the stats on the stab weapons being too good is an internal balance issue (along with spathovaklion), and once that's fixed we can focus on global changes. I believe that 1c swing should = 1p stab for a fair tradeoff. I think non-stab focused 1hs have bad enough pierce stabs that they don't need a nerf there.
If just a few weapons got nerfed internal balance would be incredibly screwy, look at your list for example, nerfing the espada leaves the scottish sword being clearly superior again, nerfing that will leave something else clearly superior/just as good at what it did while still being good at something else.
I do agree that the damage dropoff at the very end of the stab isn't quick enough, but I'm unsure about how much tweaking it takes to make it perfect. I would ideally have the stab have the same reach bonus as right swing, but it would be quite risky to attack at the very end of your range. That makes it so that right swing wins at the very edge of their ranges, but a stabber can move in a little bit more for a quicker hit. I cannot say how much more range the current stab has over right swing, but stab is dominating openers for 1h.
What? I suggested that the moment the damage drops off fits the animation realistically, but that it leaves the stab either to fast or long. The stab has (crude guess) 10 points more reach than the rightswing, of which 8 points don't glance.
I think the stab preparation is okay since they're supposed to be faster than 89 speed awlpikes and the like. Stab with a shortened spear and that's also lightning fast, but it has no bonus reach. It's in the stats.
Point is you can stab about as fast as you can leftswing or overhead, while having far more reach, and far faster than the rightswing, which has a tiny bit less reach, internal animation balance is somewhat fucked.
I use right swings D:And your weapon is a onehander with a stab and not the warhammer?
By damage dropoff, I mean the last 5-10 cm of its reach, thought I was agreeing. I can't say much about the scottish sword, but it should probably just be balanced with short arming sword, so -1 pierce. The swords I mentioned in the OP being balanced with the knightlies, italian, etc.Nope, I believe that on all attacks the last 5-10 cm should still deal damage, but that damage should go to zero right after it moves the final pixel towards the enemy.
I think 1h stab is fine now. Before it was borderline unusable (even with a slight damage buff). Now it is effective, just like overhead or left swing.
There is no need to nerf. 1h now has 4 valid attack directions. 1h stabs are potent now, but they are not dominating the battlefield in any way.
No stabs or kicks should deal damage when the animation has reached full extension and stopped moving.Test it on two stationary people on NA_3 or something, the 1h stab still glances before being fully extended.
That's not just 1h or 2h stab problem, overhead mauls can do the same (after they are buried in the ground), and kicks still kick you after the animation has stopped.
Test it on two stationary people on NA_3 or something, the 1h stab still glances before being fully extended.
I haven't noticed 1h stabs being OP now. I've noticed them being actually useable and on par with a 2h stab.
One of the first things we did. And so, occasionally yes it happens :? it still needs some possible work.
I find it intriguing that people have forgotten the LOLstab of the 2h, and now completely re-coined it for 1h stab.
yes lol stab, 2h have to abuse animation to make it usable other way you will glance a lot
for example 1h is now noob way tp stab because there is almost no way to glance
thats bs and you know it. in fact i rarely see 2h swords to glance on stab, and they do NOT glance more that 1h stabs.
Both pole arm and 2h have to do the wiggle to stab at close range and not glance. 1h doesn't. The guy you're replying to is correct.Bullshit, only the longer poles need wiggling, next to no wiggling is needed with most 2hs, 1h requires about the same amount of wiggling as 2h does with the shorter ones.
Also, 1hers used to be bump-slash candy. Now they are the deadliest threat to charging cavalry because the stab time is so quick and forgiving.
Both pole arm and 2h have to do the wiggle to stab at close range and not glance. 1h doesn't. The guy you're replying to is correct.
Also, 1hers used to be bump-slash candy. Now they are the deadliest threat to charging cavalry because the stab time is so quick and forgiving.
Bullshit, only the longer poles need wiggling, next to no wiggling is needed with most 2hs, 1h requires about the same amount of wiggling as 2h does with the shorter ones.
Wiggling lolstabs all of that are bad for game, but warband is fucked with stab animations , I don't like that on 2h too.
In my opinion stab should depend on footwork timing and distance control but way how it works on 1h is way worse that old "bit to hard" stab
and hey no one whine about 2h stab OP so something have to be on topic
but that is all my opinion
Test it on two stationary people on NA_3 or something, the 1h stab still glances before being fully extended.
1h stabs are just as stupid as all the other stabs now. I think people just aren't used to 1h stabs actually connecting instead of glancing.
Here's an easy way to take care of your 1-hander problem:
1. Buy one of these:
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visitors can't see pics , please register or login
2. Block down.
3. Overhead the thrust stunned 1-hander.
Problem solved!
Good luck getting a held overhead in with a long maul after 1 stab :) . 1 on 1 you will still get wrecked unless you make sneak attacks when they try to kill someone else
1h stabs are just as stupid as all the other stabs now. I think people just aren't used to 1h stabs actually connecting instead of glancing.you have no idea howshiet that weapons are in 1v1
Here's an easy way to take care of your 1-hander problem:
1. Buy one of these:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
2. Block down.
3. Overhead the thrust stunned 1-hander.
Problem solved!
you have no idea howshiet that weapons are in 1v1
I disagree. If you practice with them they are pretty damn good in a 1v1. I used to duel with the long maul a lot BEFORE it got buffed.
Currently the long maul is slow enough to throw people's timing off, but not too slow where you will get spammed. And using it against a 1-hander works great. Generally after a stab, a 1-hander will retreat a bit. You retreat also while holding your overhead. You're now in perfect range for an overhead and have a crushthrough chambered. As long as you have a decent amount of athletics to keep people at it's best distance, it's a beastly weapon. Kills shielders a HELL of a lot faster than an axe in my opinion. Not to mention that most people don't seem to know that stabbing a mauler is a really, really dumb idea.
IMHO, the one and only problem with 1h stab is that the thrust damage on many 1-handers was balanced around the fact that the thrust animation was crap. For instance, the most "stabby" 2h has 27p, but the most stabby 1h has 31p. On top of that, certain 1h weapons get an extra pierce damage from heirlooming, and no 2h gets that.
Solution?
-Make it so every sword in the game gets +3 cut, +2 pierce at Masterwork
-Tone down the pierce damage on some of the thrusting 1h swords 1-2 points to account for the fact that the thrust is actually useful now (side sword should be 28c/28p, for instance)
I think we should balance all stabs against the Long Axe Stab, then people would really have something (or nothing) to QQ about.
I think we should balance all stabs against the Long Axe Stab, then people would really have something (or nothing) to QQ about.
My only problem with it is the insta-hitting property it has. There is no reason there should be some weapons that are unblockable (okay, disregarding mauls) due to the near-zero prep time of the animation. Normally, a person's reaction time allows them to block in the proper direction when they see an opponents attack pulled back. But with 1h stabs all too often do you get stabbed just as they are pulling back... literally giving you no time to react. Sometimes you go into uber-twitch mode and get lucky, but that unfortunately just doesn't happen often enough. I am quite used to being 1-hit... so the massive damage is fine by me :D But if there is a hit I can't ever hope to block, then that right there is something to rage about.
Also "1h is at least balanced with 2h now" is probably the dumbest thing to say. Yes, 2h is OP and it is nice for all 1handers to be able to stand up to them, but if something is already gamebreaking, shouldn't it be fixed (nerfed) instead of buffing everything else (or apparently just select things)? Soon enough archers and xbows won't need to reload and can shoot as fast as throwers can throw. Then archers and throwers will get the guaranteed-headshot accuracy of xbows. Next up polearms get turn speed buff that allows them to 180 degree stab people like 2h and 1h can now pull off. And finally you will see poles and 1h able to hilstslash people (before they can even block) and hit them with the beginning and end of their sideswings without ever glancing, just like 2h. Does this really sound like a game you want to play? It will soon become 'click left mouse button first to win.'
My only problem with it is the insta-hitting property it has.
Why did noone (a guess, didn't read lol) suggest to slightly increase the "blocked" duration for 1h stabs like it has been done with 2h/pole(maybe less for 1h) stabs before? That would probably make them more punishable and would deal with rodeleros to a certain degree.DO EEET!
It seems like all three weapon types have equally-fast thrusts now. Everyone complained about how the combat speed in cRPG is too slow compared to native, so they sped up half of the 1h and polearm animations to match 2h speed. Even the average players had gotten too good at blocking, and things were getting boring. Everyone will just have to adapt to the faster pace of combat.
Why did noone (a guess, didn't read lol) suggest to slightly increase the "blocked" duration for 1h stabs like it has been done with 2h/pole(maybe less for 1h) stabs before? That would probably make them more punishable and would deal with rodeleros to a certain degree.
It does seem like 1h stabs have rather low animation time and rather low recovery time before another stab....
I like Paul's idea.
Why did noone (a guess, didn't read lol) suggest to slightly increase the "blocked" duration for 1h stabs like it has been done with 2h/pole(maybe less for 1h) stabs before? That would probably make them more punishable and would deal with rodeleros to a certain degree.