Serious 1h Stab Discussion

[AntiBlitz]

I think my biggest gripe with the 1h stab animation is just how quickly it starts, you can be midway through a left or right swing and they are able to put out a quick thrust and beat you nearly everytime, and they just do so much damage.  On top of that its quite clear that it is op when the major playerbase shifts from using other weapon types to weapons with higher pierce damage.  Just look at most archers, they now carry high pierce swords over blunt weapons,  we now also have agi espada spammers and rondel daggers galore. 

I'd like to see a chart showing the usage of each weapon just to justify what i am saying, i remember they did that before, and id surely like to see the comparison from pre/post patch.

[Teeth]

It is time, I've given it a while for me to get used to, but they simply are fucking OP. They connect ridiculously quick, at ridiculous reaches and hurt a fuck ton. They have been overbuffed. That said, I find 1h, 2h and polearm all active for too long. They should not deal damage when they have stopped moving, they should stop dealing damage a bit before that. I can literally walk my pike into people when the pike isn't even moving.

Slow 1h stab down a little, and make all stabs stop dealing damage a bit earlier.

[Phantasmal]

The main reason there was a shift in usage is because the 1h stab actually became viable. Before that it was the high cut damage 1hers that dominated the majority of the player base. My only gripe with the 1h stab is the lightning fast ready and release of it. There is almost 0 prep time for it.

[Torben]

They should not deal damage when they have stopped moving

this,  please.

[Grumbs]

I think it makes it more fun to fight 1 handers when they use all the attack types, rather than just spamming left attack. But the stats on some of these swords are really OP for how good the stab is now.

[MURDERTRON]

The 1h stab has a longer hot zone than pole arms do.  Pole arms glance if too far or too close and your footwork is not exactly perfect.  While that is true for 1h stabs, it is much much less extreme.

You can tell its too powerful here, because I am not a 10 kill player.  Not even in my wildest dreams.
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[Kafein]

It doesn't really make sense that people complain about 1h facehug stabs when polearms have always been able to do just that. I don't think anybody would argue it is normal to hit for full damage with a long spear yet not with a short sword when your target is 10 centimeters away.

[rufio]

like was overly clear when the changes were implemented , 1 handed stab has been overbuffed and is very broken atm, polearm stabs need a tweak to but not as bad as the 1 handers, lighter 2handed stabs are also op but come 3rd in needing the tweak. but ye chamber of tears chamber of tears chamber of tears, because devs are to snobby and stuck up to realise the current feedback is legit.

[Grumbs]

It doesn't really make sense that people complain about 1h facehug stabs when polearms have always been able to do just that. I don't think anybody would argue it is normal to hit for full damage with a long spear yet not with a short sword when your target is 10 centimeters away.

You're comparing a 4 direction 1 hander to a 1 direction hoplite though. Otherwise you're comparing to someone who doesn't get the antiranged ability of the shield while fighting, or who has to manual block every incoming attack (can't block 2 directions at once etc). Or they have no side swings available with a crappy overhead, or they have a crappy stab damage with 3 other directions, huge movement speed nerf (some turn speed nerf too) with the length of the weapon etc. The stab is balanced by taking something else away that limits the player in some fashion, encourages them to play in a certain way with their team or adds some extra level of skill requirement.

1 hand with shield is just an amazing multi tasker atm. They aren't really limited in any particular way. They have the shield, 4 directions, awesome stab, great feinting/insta hit on some swings, naturally hits the head with swing animations etc. The stab isn't even short, its got a great range and is active early and late in the animation. Someone has tried to balance 1 handers with 2 handers based on the 2 hand stab, but they forget the utility that a shield brings when you have it active all the time with your primary weapon, and 1 hand with shield has been very strong in the meta game for ages due to the amount of ranged and that left swing.

Solutions for me are to stop trying to balance around the 2 hand stab. Do something with 2 hand stab if you need to, just make it harder to use well than it is now. Stop trying to move away too much from A-synchronous game balance. Its ok that 1 handers don't have a great stab as well as great other directions (but make the stab useful in some situations). Its ok that polearms have weaker swings than 2 handers but a good stab. Its ok that 2 hand have a nice stab (but it is kind of quirky and their swings are amazing too). 1 hand with shield never needed a big buff with its attacks

[Nightmare798]

if you fail to stab 1h user with polearm before he stabs you, you need to train more.

[Grumbs]

Your comment is "L2P" basically. Want to elaborate? I've played 1 hand with 1 WPF several times after this change and it is a super fast and long stab while maintaining the swings with a shield. Its like a hoplite with swings

[Nightmare798]

Your comment is "L2P" basically. Want to elaborate? I've played 1 hand with 1 WPF several times after this change and it is a super fast and long stab while maintaining the swings with a shield. Its like a hoplite with swings

i can assure you you will do horribly with 1 wpf, unless you go full agility and dagger. even at 140wpf in 1h sometimes feel slow with my long espada.

anyone who has met longsword spammer as 1h knows they have no hope of beating them with with low wpf.

this also works for 2h. i once looted some guy for mw katana for shits and giggles, and even with 18 agi, i was slow as fuck.

EDIT: also you have no idea how hoplite works. hoplite relies in backpedaling, range and hit-wiggling [also a thing that needs to be fixed]. 1h shielder plays completely different.

[Grumbs]

I've done 1 wpf plenty with this new stab and I can tell you it is very fast still. If you think any 1 hander is slow you aren't used to using actual slow weapons. I'm not going to go into how well I do, I'll just say I do as well as with my 160 polearm

[Nightmare798]

I've done 1 wpf plenty with this new stab and I can tell you it is very fast still. If you think any 1 hander is slow you aren't used to using actual slow weapons. I'm not going to go into how well I do, I'll just say I do as well as with my 160 polearm

the problem is not being used to slow weapons, but not being used to fighting all master work superspeed scrubs.

[Gurnisson]

It doesn't really make sense that people complain about 1h facehug stabs when polearms have always been able to do just that. I don't think anybody would argue it is normal to hit for full damage with a long spear yet not with a short sword when your target is 10 centimeters away.

You have to wiggle it to instastab with a long spear, unlike shorter polearms (spear, forks etc.), and 1h weapons. 2h weapons almost always require wiggling, if the enemy is not really low on armour. 2h and polearms bounce at long range as well, which grants your an enemy a free hit because of the long stun. Haven't really noticed a very hard thrust-stun when I've stabbed with one-handers though, unless using a slow shield like the steel shield.

i can assure you you will do horribly with 1 wpf, unless you go full agility and dagger. even at 140wpf in 1h sometimes feel slow with my long espada.

anyone who has met longsword spammer as 1h knows they have no hope of beating them with with low wpf.

I've done 1 wpf fighting with 1h both as a crossbowman and a pikeman. It works quite well (just like polearms and 2h), but I would recommend getting at least 50 if you plan to use it a lot. Beating a longswordman with 1 1h wpf is no different to a player with elite scimitar, niuweidao, hafted blade, long axe or other very fast weapons. You'll be at a disadvantage for sure, but you'll be able to beat them if you play better than them.