Serious 1h Stab Discussion

[Phew]

IMHO, the one and only problem with 1h stab is that the thrust damage on many 1-handers was balanced around the fact that the thrust animation was crap. For instance, the most "stabby" 2h has 27p, but the most stabby 1h has 31p. On top of that, certain 1h weapons get an extra pierce damage from heirlooming, and no 2h gets that.

Solution?
-Make it so every sword in the game gets +3 cut, +2 pierce at Masterwork
-Tone down the pierce damage on some of the thrusting 1h swords 1-2 points to account for the fact that the thrust is actually useful now (side sword should be 28c/28p, for instance)

 

[Jona]

I think we should balance all stabs against the Long Axe Stab, then people would really have something (or nothing) to QQ about.

IMHO, the one and only problem with 1h stab is that the thrust damage on many 1-handers was balanced around the fact that the thrust animation was crap. For instance, the most "stabby" 2h has 27p, but the most stabby 1h has 31p. On top of that, certain 1h weapons get an extra pierce damage from heirlooming, and no 2h gets that.

Solution?
-Make it so every sword in the game gets +3 cut, +2 pierce at Masterwork
-Tone down the pierce damage on some of the thrusting 1h swords 1-2 points to account for the fact that the thrust is actually useful now (side sword should be 28c/28p, for instance)

 

My only problem with it is the insta-hitting property it has. There is no reason there should be some weapons that are unblockable (okay, disregarding mauls) due to the near-zero prep time of the animation. Normally, a person's reaction time allows them to block in the proper direction when they see an opponents attack pulled back. But with 1h stabs all too often do you get stabbed just as they are pulling back... literally giving you no time to react. Sometimes you go into uber-twitch mode and get lucky, but that unfortunately just doesn't happen often enough. I am quite used to being 1-hit... so the massive damage is fine by me     But if there is a hit I can't ever hope to block, then that right there is something to rage about.

Also "1h is at least balanced with 2h now" is probably the dumbest thing to say. Yes, 2h is OP and it is nice for all 1handers to be able to stand up to them, but if something is already gamebreaking, shouldn't it be fixed (nerfed) instead of buffing everything else (or apparently just select things)? Soon enough archers and xbows won't need to reload and can shoot as fast as throwers can throw. Then archers and throwers will get the guaranteed-headshot accuracy of xbows. Next up polearms get turn speed buff that allows them to 180 degree stab people like 2h and 1h can now pull off. And finally you will see poles and 1h able to hilstslash people (before they can even block) and hit them with the beginning and end of their sideswings without ever glancing, just like 2h.  Does this really sound like a game you want to play?  It will soon become 'click left mouse button first to win.'

[Phew]

I think we should balance all stabs against the Long Axe Stab, then people would really have something (or nothing) to QQ about.

Whenever I see you stab, I assume it's a mistake.

[Kafein]

Long maul and great maul aren't slow, it's all about turning into your swings.

I think we should balance all stabs against the Long Axe Stab, then people would really have something (or nothing) to QQ about.

My only problem with it is the insta-hitting property it has. There is no reason there should be some weapons that are unblockable (okay, disregarding mauls) due to the near-zero prep time of the animation. Normally, a person's reaction time allows them to block in the proper direction when they see an opponents attack pulled back. But with 1h stabs all too often do you get stabbed just as they are pulling back... literally giving you no time to react. Sometimes you go into uber-twitch mode and get lucky, but that unfortunately just doesn't happen often enough. I am quite used to being 1-hit... so the massive damage is fine by me     But if there is a hit I can't ever hope to block, then that right there is something to rage about.

Also "1h is at least balanced with 2h now" is probably the dumbest thing to say. Yes, 2h is OP and it is nice for all 1handers to be able to stand up to them, but if something is already gamebreaking, shouldn't it be fixed (nerfed) instead of buffing everything else (or apparently just select things)? Soon enough archers and xbows won't need to reload and can shoot as fast as throwers can throw. Then archers and throwers will get the guaranteed-headshot accuracy of xbows. Next up polearms get turn speed buff that allows them to 180 degree stab people like 2h and 1h can now pull off. And finally you will see poles and 1h able to hilstslash people (before they can even block) and hit them with the beginning and end of their sideswings without ever glancing, just like 2h.  Does this really sound like a game you want to play?  It will soon become 'click left mouse button first to win.'

I found the mother of all slippery slope arguments

[Phew]

My only problem with it is the insta-hitting property it has.

It seems like all three weapon types have equally-fast thrusts now. Everyone complained about how the combat speed in cRPG is too slow compared to native, so they sped up half of the 1h and polearm animations to match 2h speed. Even the average players had gotten too good at blocking, and things were getting boring. Everyone will just have to adapt to the faster pace of combat.

[Paul]

Why did noone (a guess, didn't read lol) suggest to slightly increase the "blocked" duration for 1h stabs like it has been done with 2h/pole(maybe less for 1h) stabs before? That would probably make them more punishable and would deal with rodeleros to a certain degree.

[Molly]

Why did noone (a guess, didn't read lol) suggest to slightly increase the "blocked" duration for 1h stabs like it has been done with 2h/pole(maybe less for 1h) stabs before? That would probably make them more punishable and would deal with rodeleros to a certain degree.

DO EEET!

[Jona]

It seems like all three weapon types have equally-fast thrusts now. Everyone complained about how the combat speed in cRPG is too slow compared to native, so they sped up half of the 1h and polearm animations to match 2h speed. Even the average players had gotten too good at blocking, and things were getting boring. Everyone will just have to adapt to the faster pace of combat.

I don't see how polearm stab is nearly as good as 2h or 1h nowadays. The only noticeably wonky stabs are with the really long poles like pike and long spear. Other than very rarely getting poked super fast with a war spear, no other polearm seems to have an OP thrust in any way. None of the pole axes, staffs, axes, or bardiche/glaive-type weapons have ever thrown me for a loop.

Also, lets not forget that of all the weapon types a dedicated spear should kinda have the best stab. You don't normally go swinging a couple-meter-long weapon made of a thin wooden shaft [in before jokes] in all directions and bash it against solid shields/armor... it would snap and splinter in no time. The only reason sideswings exist on spears is so that the devs didn't have to make a stab animation from each attack direction, most likely. In a real fight you would see a spearman make a flurry of jabs from all angles at his opponent trying to get around his defenses before his opponent could close in and get inside his guard.

I don't know.. I think what really grinds my gears is the fact that in this game polearms also probably have the worst range modifier from the animation, while (at least hoplite-mode) it should be the best. Not to mention that polearm stabs can't ever hit someone near the end of their animation... 2h and 1h definitely have the advantage in that regard. AND not to mention the 180 degree stabbing capabilites of 1h and 2h, which once again poles lack.

Why did noone (a guess, didn't read lol) suggest to slightly increase the "blocked" duration for 1h stabs like it has been done with 2h/pole(maybe less for 1h) stabs before? That would probably make them more punishable and would deal with rodeleros to a certain degree.

This was suggested in another QQ thread about the new 1h stab... or at least someone mentioned how they could spam you with stab while no other class could since they get a slight stun/delay. As long as the other weapons have this, I don't see why 1h shouldn't. It's kinda a no-brainer in my opinion.  However, it still doesn't solve the insta-stab problem... it's only a way to reward the lucky sumbitchez who managed to block it in the first place.


/QQ

[San]

I'm just not sure something should be artificially altered to work like weapons with 10 worse speed. I do notice the stun when I block 1h stabs, but I use a fast weapon.

For me, polearm stabs I probably have the worst time dealing with, so there's at least one person.

[Elindor]

It does seem like 1h stabs have rather low animation time and rather low recovery time before another stab....

I like Paul's idea.

[Jona]

It does seem like 1h stabs have rather low animation time and rather low recovery time before another stab....

I like Paul's idea.

Or they could.. you know... take a look at the animation again. Tydeus took an educated guess when buffing 1h stab. Odds are he wouldn't nail it on his first try, and unfortunately he didn't (he came close, but close only counts in blah blah blah).  I don't see why he can't go all try-hard at fixing this again instead of giving up after one go.  The stab doesn't need to be unbuffed and reverted back into what it was, but the devs/Tydeus should still tweak it a little.

[Kafein]

Why did noone (a guess, didn't read lol) suggest to slightly increase the "blocked" duration for 1h stabs like it has been done with 2h/pole(maybe less for 1h) stabs before? That would probably make them more punishable and would deal with rodeleros to a certain degree.

We could use some of that for virtually any melee attack IMO. And increase damage across the board to make up for the increased control. It is very often much too easy (and relatively inconsequential if you fail) to just brute force spam your way through people, unless they play boring.