When has anyone ever said it would make you a murderer?(click to show/hide)
That thinking is deeply flawed. "Murderer" is not a profession. Playing a fighting game can make you want to go out and fight, playing an NFL game can make you want to go out and play football, playing a surgeon game can make you want to become a surgeon, playing a cooking game can make you want to cook...
Following that logic, GTA is indeed very bad. It's a good thing, then, that the logic is also flawed.
When has anyone ever said it would make you a murderer?
When has anyone ever said it would make you a murderer?
I know it was a kid in america that killed her grandmother or something cause he played GTA. It's a game for 18+ and it's the parents fault for buying it. If you could provide some information about someone that is over 18 and has gone out on a killing spree because of GTA please do so, would be interesting to read. If you are so sick so you go out killing people because of a game you should sit in lockdown 24/7.
That thinking is deeply flawed. "Murderer" is not a profession. Playing a fighting game can make you want to go out and fight, playing an NFL game can make you want to go out and play football, playing a surgeon game can make you want to become a surgeon, playing a cooking game can make you want to cook...
Following that logic, GTA is indeed very bad. It's a good thing, then, that the logic is also flawed.
you say that my logic is flawed because murderer is not a proffesion and that these games can make people go out and become those who they play as in these games.
the problem is that most players play games so they can have fun at competing and completing objectives, and not because they enjoy cooking or murdering.
i for example not play games to see gallons of blood or guts, i play games to have fun competing or to be creative.
ofc some people will play those games so they can murder people, but they are psychopaths to begin with, and not because they are playing those games.
if anything, your logic is flawed.
That thinking is deeply flawed. "Murderer" is not a profession. Playing a fighting game can make you want to go out and fight, playing an NFL game can make you want to go out and play football, playing a surgeon game can make you want to become a surgeon, playing a cooking game can make you want to cook...
Following that logic, GTA is indeed very bad. It's a good thing, then, that the logic is also flawed.
*facepalm*
There is so much wrong in that comment.
First of all, i never said GTA was to blame. And to compare GTA with a freaking simulator is just stupid. The kid murdered his grandmother after he had played GTA, all his fault. But GTA contains violence and people shooting eachother, does microsofts simulators do that? No. Quite the big different, so don't compare it as microsoft would be guilty cause i never said rockstar was.
you say that my logic is flawed because murderer is not a proffesion and that these games can make people go out and become those who they play as in these games.
the problem is that most players play games so they can have fun at competing and completing objectives, and not because they enjoy cooking or murdering.
i for example not play games to see gallons of blood or guts, i play games to have fun competing or to be creative.
ofc some people will play those games so they can murder people, but they are psychopaths to begin with, and not because they are playing those games.
if anything, your logic is flawed.
games that let you murder people dont make you a murderer, nor games that let you cook food make you a chef.
Going to step in here. Recently, most research on video games and their pyschosocial health has been thrown out by several goverments in the world. The US supreme court, said in 2007, most of what the media and research says concerning the likelihood of committing an act based on video games is completely false, and a large majority of data is biased to approve an agenda of restricting video games.
Look it up, it's very intersting. There is close to 25 scholarly journals relating to this(before the supreme court tossed most of it aside) and even then the data was very inconclusive in some, and misleading in others.
So. Any time you hear: X plays games therefore X will likely do Y cause of games, ignore the commentator immediately. In most instances, the people who represent other facets of the crime(In America, the NRA is a BIG proponent of Games = Violence mentality) try to spin it on another type of media/thing to draw attention from theirs.(Like I said, This is American Centric, as you see this happen a lot more in America than elsewhere, and I only have my data from American sources.)
Had to do a write up on the stuff recently(IE data Aggregation). Was hell to do, but interesting what I learned.
If you wish to learn yourself(I took all my refrences read/used, only 25% are related to subject at hand. Rest are about other health effects of games):(click to show/hide)
All this was done as part of my Masters Program.
This whole post in a non sequitur. And I never said people play GTA because "they enjoy murdering."
Oh for god sake. Your comparison is rubbish. It would be good if in the simulator you flied a plane into a building, then, only then you could make that comparison. I'm not sure if he did it because of GTA or not BUT there is certainly some nutcases out there that have killed people because of GTA. If you actually see someone crash a plane because of a flying simulator you tell me.
No one has ever said that. Games that let you murder people ingame and then if you go outside afterwards and go on a killing spree, well guess what it makes you a murderer.
Your argument is silly.
It is a well known and scientifically acclaimed fact that NOT playing video games makes you a murderer. Over 90% of all murderers in the history of mankind have never played a video game.
if you play a game about murdering and then go out and go on a killing spree, that means that you are murderer to begin with, and not that the game made you do it. Not even answer the amount of stupidity in that one.
and about my comparsion, please, read one of my earlier posts again. You still don't make any sense.
ofc you dont see people crashing planes into buildings, because people who have planes are usually sane enough not to jump in them and crash them into a building. Then why did you even do a comparison of that? People might go kill people because they tought it was cool in a game. That's it. And don't say they were murderers to begin with, they might not even had the idea before to even touch a fly.
people murder themselves because they have motive and means to do this, not because they play video games. Not even sure what this is an answer to.
And no, i do not believe it happens alot. But you are denying that it has ever happened.
you know i played hundreds upon hundreds of games, many that contain extreme ammount of gore and violence.
i never killed anyone.
i never severely wounded anyone.
the worst thing i ever done to anyone was beating them up [and only to the point where he was lying on floor, i am not an asshole to beat someone who cannot fight back.]
i am a living example of the fact, that video games have little no actual impact on your personality.
Your arguments are just getting thinner and thinner. When the hell did i ever fucking say that every damn person has to go murder anyone after they've played violent games? I think the amount of times this has happened might be, 15? Do you even read anymore?
How come Bittersteel, nor Xant have replied to my post?
How come Bittersteel, nor Xant have replied to my post?
I AM FUCKING TELLING YOU THAT NOBODY EVER MURDERED BECAUSE OF THE VIDEO GAMES!
the intent is already there! video games causing people to kills is an ugly lie so they have someone else to blame for their fucking deed so that consequences are not so bad for them.
think about it, why would anyone claim they killed because of video games? SO THEY CAN FUCKING BLAME THE SAID GAME!
murderer: yeah the game made me do it, the game is guilty for what i have done, not me. i am innocent!
and some people are stupid enough to believe this.
if you keep on posting just so you can tell me how poor are my reasoning skills, then please, fuck off.
people killing because they played video games is a bullshit myth that needs to die.
How come Bittersteel, nor Xant have replied to my post?1) Any time I try to engage in a discussion with you you stop replying when it becomes difficult to answer the questions I ask.
They probably have the NA filter on.
1) Any time I try to engage in a discussion with you you stop replying when it becomes difficult to answer the questions I ask.
2) What is there to reply to? Think very carefully about what exactly I've said and how that contradicts your post.
You are quite retarded, eh? Your argument is do stupid it's not even worth trying anymore so i'm gonna post one last time and hope you understand why you are wrong.
First you made a dumb comparison between GTA and a flying simulator. How about comparising with a game that actually has in it? And then you think it affects every person and say you have played plenty of violent games and you have not murdered anyone. Use your fucking brain mate. Some insane person most likely have played the game with no intention of killing before, saw how cool it is and have gone outside shooting people. You are so stupid you are not even looking at the options, thinking that it affects every damn person. If they say the game affected them, where the hell do you have the proof that they are lying? I could go caps lock on you aswell but i'm just gonna say that you are deadwrong pal.
Cause they said so? I think that's more of a reason than you just saying "Nope, fuck you".¨
To Anders, well what i've tried to tell this moron is that i believe that some people might have gotten killed because of a violent game. Some pshycotic bastard with medical conditions played a game and then went out killing people. I truly doubt that this has never happened. Or as Nightmare would have said it:
IT HAS HAPPENED, K?
Just to throw this out there, i dont really get how they all of a sudden are like "holy crap we added torture to a game for children" when this same kind of thing and much worse has been in gaming for a long while. Games like Metal Gear depicted your character being tortured where you had to button mash to survive your torture, or Far Cry, Skyrim, or the holy grail of violent gaming The Punisher. In that game it depicts nothing but slaughtering massive amounts of people and then torturing them for information.(click to show/hide)
Dont mind the video, it was the only montage one i could find.
To Anders, well what i've tried to tell this moron is that i believe that some people might have gotten killed because of a violent game. Some pshycotic bastard with medical conditions played a game and then went out killing people. I truly doubt that this has never happened. Or as Nightmare would have said it:
You'll have to forgive me, english isn't my first language, so i didn't understood much of that.
While I agree that computer games do not make you any more aggressive or violent than any other media, I do think playing a lot of shooters does one thing to the mind: it learns to abstract the human shape as a target. This doesn't make you want to kill or something, but I think, if you ever found yourself in the situation where you had to, it would probably be easier for you to pull the trigger if your brain had already learned this abstraction. I don't really have any concrete information to back this up, though, just some observations I made during my military service.
I think your original post was spot on Kafein. I found myself not wanting to return to trevor for more rounds of torture. I think it raises a mirror/casts light on events peple know are happening, and it deliberately and sustainedly makes you feel uncomfortable with it. It is one of the least subtle parts of the game, but maybe it needs to be. I have massive respect for Rockstar for not giving a fuck about what they do regarding pertinent contemporary real world issues. Facebook(Lifeinvader), torture, religion, the media all get made to look ridiculous or perverse in an expert fashion.
Had to go watch the torture scene on YouTube since I don't have GTA V yet, have to say I've seen a lot worse in movies, typical media to go berserk on stuff like this in games but not if its in a movie.
Watching it and playing it isn't really the same
Watching it and playing it isn't really the same
Decent Debate topic with some honest questioning behind it that will lead to flame wars.
The TL,DR is a lie. :(
Also, you're missing the point. GTA (imho) is not a satire of the terrible things that humans do to each other. If anything, it's a satire of how hypocritical we are about them - which is what you should actually be worried about, if you are such a self-proclaimed crusader for humanity as you say. Hypocrisy is the root of immorality and the way the global community is all about being ethical nowadays, all the bad things get wrapped up in more and more hypocritical nonsense - which is what GTA parodies.
Funnily enough, the criticism it receives for that is hypocritical in itself. :lol:
i don't even
Aside from me missing the point. I feel more as though I hit the nail on the head so hard that it took someone with a brain to put it back together.
So, who gets the next prize?
I didn't mean that a game can't be a satire/parody/whatever, I meant that GTA isn't. It's like trying to analyze the social and political message of Call of Duty or the latest Michael Bay movie (hint: there is none).If you just skim over it, you will probably miss the satire part. Gotta explore the actual game world, to see it. And there is quite enough of it, which is what the GTA franchise is known for. It being a reality, that is alternate, yet extremely similar to ours, satire is the only word, that comes to mind.
Fuck this world.
What is so trivial about a satire that hundreds of thousands of people are playing through right now? It sounds stupid as shit, but this is history just as much as whats actually going on outside of our comfy rooms right now.tl;dr
I flipped on the news today, and I heard a story about two girls being strangled to death in the town adjacent to mine. I watched soldiers rush into some building in Kenya to try and halt a terrorist attack.
You're not going to remember that. However, a couple of years from now you are going to recall that torture scene from that silly game you played. It made you actually think for a second. You're going to remember this huge ASS PRINCE wagging his finger at you like some self-righteous man on a mission over a forum.
Rockstar actually has a chance to make a big impact on modern history here with this.
History is history because we remember it in the first place.
We remember WW2 and the holocaust because some dickhead teacher forced it into our heads, because they wanted to see a better world tomorrow.
If you remember that torture scene in GTA that could have made you actually feel something because I made you read a ten paragraph post, because I'm an incessant asshole, then my job is done.
If you don't, then oh well. You are trivial. Someone else will. Someone that played Rockstar's game will inevitably be put in a similar position over another human being, and just maybe, they will show some compassion because of it. That my friend, is history.
That's why I want people to actually read my "stupid fucking post" instead of scrolling to the bottom and dismissing it because they can't hold their eyes on the screen for something with the potential to change their life.
ahahahhahbsdAHaHAH
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When I get to play it I'm gonna enjoy it, just like I enjoyed shooting all those innocent people in that CoD intro.
I think he is high or something. This is the type of bullcrap id imagine myself writing, when im on crack(acid/weed/mushrooms/???) and decide to go all deep and sophisticated.(click to show/hide)
..."Other Games > GTA V"...
Hey, that Deltah guy took the moral highground and actually has a passion for the topic at hand. Let's all chastise him for it because it's easier to do than trying to represent a reasonable counter argument.I'm guessing next you're going to resort to calling me "and inbred troll" or making a comment about my fiery emotional attachment to the topic?
Quickly, rally under me and show off just how well we fit the stereotype of the subhuman parasite that is the typical internet denizen. While we're at it, let's attempt to dispel his ideology with low caliber sarcasm and mockery.
GTA is a satire. However outlandish the game seems to be, it parodies and depicts modern society with reasonable accuracy.No; it was and has always been made tongue-in-cheek, but it isn't satire. It's just a video game, like cmp says. The developers aren't making the GTA games as political commentary. Just because it contains humor does not make it "a satire."
People with wisdom and empathy(let's just pretend the crpg community has some for a second) will see its correlations to real life.A cute attempt at poisoning-the-well, but fortunately it's utterly irrelevant here: yes, everyone can see what the game is poking fun at, that is the point. If it was poking fun at something nobody understood, it wouldn't be funny.
Believe it or not, Rockstar actually wants us to be human beings and try to make change and reason with this fucked up world we live in.And how do you know this? How do you know what their real motives are? Maybe the mission designer was high and thought it'd be funny.
I hate to sound like some hippy/conspiracy theorist/hipster my old friend but with the way that we currently let the media scare us, social networking prostitute our social beings, and the massive amount of senseless and unjust violence in our culture desensitize us, we are becoming more and more like these characters in this game that we laugh at."Prostitute our social beings"? Utter bullshit. Taboo the words "prositute", "social" and "beings" and try again. You can't replace those words with synonyms, either. I think you'll find that it sounds a lot less dramatic once you replace the symbol with the substance.
You turn on any news channel and here is what you get: " terrible accident/terrorist attack/school shooting/international genocide" What do I do? Probably the same as you. Laugh at it and switch channels.You need to learn to distinguish between "X is happening more" and "X is being reported more." Violence is not on the rise, on the contrary, but as a headline it sells.
Oh look it's kim kardashian and her huge butt. Man I would like to tap that. You know, I could probably get more ass if I worked out more and went to the gym or bought the supplement they are advertising on this commercial.(no that's not actually what you or I are thinking. But it's what they want us to think, because it will make them money.)Your sexual fantasies about Kim Kardashian don't seem to have any relevance to this conversation. And if there is a grand conspiracy to get more people to go to the gym, well, good. Of course there isn't one, but it's amusing you should use that as an example. New news: businesses are out to make money and advertising is to help them advertise their product. Alas, there is no Kim Kardashian gym-and-supplements conspiracy. It's, to put it mildly, far-fetched to assume that Kim Kardashian's butt on the TV is to make you buy a specific supplement to get more ass, unless it's an ad. And if it is, then well, that's what ads are and I'm not sure what the epiphany here is supposed to be.
All of this shit, when drawn out into the open, is really fucked up.Nope, nothing fucked up so far...
What's worse, hundreds of children starving and getting forced into child soldiering and murdered senselessly, or the millions of people that watch it and are not just apathetic, they laugh at it.Uh-huh. And what are you doing about it? I love the hypocrisy. Solving an issue like children being forced to become soldiers is far from simple... what do you suggest these millions of Average Joes and Janes do about it? Grab their guns and kill the child soldiers to get to the ones pulling the strings to help the child soldiers?
We come on here and we make "memes" and jokes and we laugh our asses off at how fucked up the media is.Yeah, deity forbid we have fun.
We play crpg, which is at the end of the day just a medieval murder simulator. "oh but we have objectives and things to strive for" Yeah, like killing as many fucktards as we can so our team can win and get that "x5." And for what? So we can get more gold and xp. So I can buy myself plate and a large two handed sword. So I can make my guy swing harder to kill you quicker so I can move onto the next unlucky son of a bitch who happens to cross me. So I can make my team win.Um, it's a video game, not a murder simulator. Nobody really dies. This paragraph is the silliest one yet. You're trying too hard and it's making you look bad. Also a straw man: no one aside from you would go through that particular chain of logic. Nobody here thinks x5 has any intrinsic value. Except you, that is.
So I can get an x5. See where this is going?
You enjoy beating that guy who killed you last round. You enjoy having a high score so you can gloat about it later. You enjoy watching your enemies crumble before you.Yes, competitiveness is in human nature. Nothing sad about it.
Sadly, it's human nature.
We are all so fucked up and we will never do anything about it. We could. But we choose not to. It's easier, and if you did, it wouldn't make a difference anyway so why try?No, we aren't all so fucked up.
Let's say you live in or near a major city. Chances are, there is more than one guy within a handful of miles being shot or stabbed.A lot of people actually do care. But the rational thing to do is not to care, if you can't do anything about it. Being depressed doesn't help anyone.
You actually don't care. No matter how much you wish you did, you don't.
Our faces are our best masks. We express all of this bullshit about how we care. We don't.Our masks are our best masks, actually. And I was thinking about marking your post with "[citation needed]" as necessary but I realized it'd be more economical to just say [citation needed] instead of marking every other sentence with it. So here it is: [citation needed]. The amount of arguments-by-assertion you make is out of this world and all your arguments are based on previous arguments-by-assertion. Known also as begging the question fallacy.
I for one actually dress up in color coordinated jogging clothes with a facemask and carry around multiple weapons on me. I patrol my streets.Um... okay... well.. there ought to be some psychiatrists near you that can help you with your issue(s)....
No matter how hard I try to be some comic book vigilante hero, or even just that sweetheart who holds the door open for you, I honestly don't care. I don't know why I do it. I could stab you in an alleyway just as easily, and it would benefit me more.
You can play a thousand games about saving the world from aliens and evil men.(anders come join my anti-alien militia irl) You can kill millions of people and creatures. That's okay. They were bad. They would do it to you and worse, in a heartbeat.No, they weren't bad and they wouldn't have done it to me. It's a video game. They don't exist. Repeat after me: they don't exist.
But the second we are put on the other end of what we personally view as right, when we cross that microscopically thin and transparent line, then all of a sudden there is outrage.What you are essentially saying is: we think something that isn't right is wrong. How outrageous.
We remember WW2 and the holocaust because some dickhead teacher forced it into our heads, because they wanted to see a better world tomorrow.This is actually a perfect example of the sort of mistake you make all the time. That "dickhead teacher" is teaching you about the holocaust because that's his job and it's what he's paid to do. Rockstar is making games because that's what they're paid to do, and black humor has worked well for them in the past. Not because they are trying to "better the world."
I mean do you think Rockstar tries to send the message that it's ok to solicit a prostitutes services and then beat her unconscious after she gives you a blowjob so you can get your 50$ back?
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Too many long posts to read.Thanks for informing us of this important fact.
Thanks for informing us of this important fact.