GTA 5 Torture Mission (debate inside and no big spoilers hopefully)

[Bittersteel]

You'll have to forgive me, english isn't my first language, so i didn't understood much of that.

[Lt_Anders]

You'll have to forgive me, english isn't my first language, so i didn't understood much of that.

Person A Plays X. X causes you to DO Y.

Therefore Person A will do Y.

That is flawed. A murder who claims games made him murder is wrong. But, as I saw during my research, those who were already more prone to those conditions were aggravated by them. In fact, where you live was a worse causal factor than what you play/watch.

[Bittersteel]

You're to smart. The only thing i understood was the first part. Altough i'm gonna give it my best. So let's say a phsycho who has never EVER tought of murder before just picks up the game. He plays it and finds it cool how the awesome guy took on 30 cops and just drove away. He has acces to a gun and shot a person. Saying he killed someone because of the game is as much right/wrong as saying he killed someone not because of the game. You can't see it from his point of view, he can be lying or he can be telling the truth.

[zagibu]

While I agree that computer games do not make you any more aggressive or violent than any other media, I do think playing a lot of shooters does one thing to the mind: it learns to abstract the human shape as a target.  This doesn't make you want to kill or something, but I think, if you ever found yourself in the situation where you had to, it would probably be easier for you to pull the trigger if your brain had already learned this abstraction. I don't really have any concrete information to back this up, though, just some observations I made during my military service.

[Lt_Anders]

While I agree that computer games do not make you any more aggressive or violent than any other media, I do think playing a lot of shooters does one thing to the mind: it learns to abstract the human shape as a target.  This doesn't make you want to kill or something, but I think, if you ever found yourself in the situation where you had to, it would probably be easier for you to pull the trigger if your brain had already learned this abstraction. I don't really have any concrete information to back this up, though, just some observations I made during my military service.

That might be true. Military (US at least) does use games as a form of training. But then again, they can't always train a unit under certain conditions, so virtual training is the best you can do(without risk, of course).

Or we could go with the fun route: Games are nothing more than training for the incoming alien armada. And everyone needs to learn to fight the aliens.

[Xant]

Games aren't used in the military to train people to think of the human shape as a target....

Infantry units don't use games to train. Officers and some pilots/crew members use them but for some completely unrelated reasons.

[NejStark]

I think your original post was spot on Kafein. I found myself not wanting to return to trevor for more rounds of torture. I think it raises a mirror/casts light on events peple know are happening, and it deliberately and sustainedly makes you feel uncomfortable with it. It is one of the least subtle parts of the game, but maybe it needs to be. I have massive respect for Rockstar for not giving a fuck about what they do regarding pertinent contemporary real world issues. Facebook(Lifeinvader), torture, religion, the media all get made to look ridiculous or perverse in an expert fashion.

[Kafein]

I think your original post was spot on Kafein. I found myself not wanting to return to trevor for more rounds of torture. I think it raises a mirror/casts light on events peple know are happening, and it deliberately and sustainedly makes you feel uncomfortable with it. It is one of the least subtle parts of the game, but maybe it needs to be. I have massive respect for Rockstar for not giving a fuck about what they do regarding pertinent contemporary real world issues. Facebook(Lifeinvader), torture, religion, the media all get made to look ridiculous or perverse in an expert fashion.

Yeah, I think people get the wrong idea when this mission is called a "satyre". It doesn't make fun of anything and isn't funny at all. It's one of the crudest, down to earth depictions of all the horrible stuff ever featured in a GTA game. A book or a movie, even very harsh and describing precisely real torture, can't reach the level of intensity of forcing the player to "enjoy" the act. It's a shock because everything similar in the game is extremely warped, this is actually believable.

[IR_Kuoin]

Had to go watch the torture scene on YouTube since I don't have GTA V yet, have to say I've seen a lot worse in movies, typical media to go berserk on stuff like this in games but not if its in a movie.

[Kafein]

Had to go watch the torture scene on YouTube since I don't have GTA V yet, have to say I've seen a lot worse in movies, typical media to go berserk on stuff like this in games but not if its in a movie.

Watching it and playing it isn't really the same

[IR_Kuoin]

Watching it and playing it isn't really the same

Well obviously, still I think people is overreacting about it though.

[Xant]

Meh, I thought it'd be a lot worse to be worth all the controversy. Not very graphical and the torture bits are fairly tame and over quickly.

[Havoco]

I find surgeon simulator more disturbing than that.

[Xant]

Yes. And those "torturer! Sadist!" shouts from the guy being tortured were.. corny at best.

[Clockworkkiller]

Watching it and playing it isn't really the same

didnt watch the scene but.....
arent you simply pressing a button in some QTE?

doesnt seem like much play to me