cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Strudog on September 13, 2013, 10:55:11 pm

Title: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Strudog on September 13, 2013, 10:55:11 pm
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 (http://s686.photobucket.com/user/strudog/media/mb40_zps0b33298d.jpg.html)

IMG quality crappy, its meant to say 17-7

3/36 build, 0 PS, 197 WPF, 2 hitting most people
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Sniger on September 14, 2013, 01:23:06 pm
3/36 build, 0 PS, 197 WPF, 2 hitting most people

...no armor, toothpick blade shorter than my moms dick. but still, yeah you right, its totally OP. 0 PS wtf xD
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: the real god emperor on September 14, 2013, 01:27:02 pm
Its easy to avoid , but i think the system shouldnt let someone get 36 agi..
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 14, 2013, 02:49:25 pm
Its easy to avoid. No not when you are a tincan :D.....

then you just get killed....and cant do anything because you are to slow.... so  delete the word "avoid" out of your language now because you don´t know what it really means.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: the real god emperor on September 14, 2013, 03:33:29 pm
Its easy to avoid. No not when you are a tincan :D.....

then you just get killed....and cant do anything because you are to slow.... so  delete the word "avoid" out of your language now because you don´t know what it really means.

its because you cant play properly, mr tincan
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 14, 2013, 04:31:48 pm
no it is because you have a small penis size this is why you need this weapon implementet in the game.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 14, 2013, 04:34:22 pm
oh i can not do anything against plated guys..... lets make Daggers OP.... it is because you can not kill me with anything else.  Mr Pro player.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: the real god emperor on September 14, 2013, 04:54:28 pm
who said i am using it for gods sake? -_-
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Strudog on September 14, 2013, 05:00:38 pm
Chill out, its not just against tin cans its about everyone, 2 hitting people with armour with a dagger and 0 PS is ridiculous
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 14, 2013, 05:16:47 pm
i am sorry i am just so angry. because even telling it is not is satch a lie.  :wink:
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: polkafranzi on September 14, 2013, 05:45:36 pm
Its easy to avoid , but i think the system shouldnt let someone get 36 agi..

Ridiculous suggestion.  Variety is what makes it fun.  Not the same boring balanced builds and spawning the same +3 gear set and playing the same class for 3 years like most people do.

I personally wouldn't play crpg any more if it weren't for the 3/39 builds that I STF with Minjy, be it 13 riding, ath or PS.

Long dagger works just as well, and it's a tiny bit longer too for same speed and a little less damage. But nobody is saying it's OP..
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: zottlmarsch on September 14, 2013, 06:03:01 pm
Quote
Rondel daggers were ideal in battle for puncturing chain mail, and although they would not have been able to punch through plate armour, they could be forced between the joints in a suit of armour and helmets. This was often the only way in which a heavily-armoured knight could be killed.

Stop QQ cunts, If its so OP why don't you just respec, sell all your best weapons and start using it instead?  :lol:
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Strudog on September 14, 2013, 06:16:41 pm
Stop QQ cunts, If its so OP why don't you just respec, sell all your best weapons and start using it instead?  :lol:

When has this game ever been about realism, if this game was based on realism you wouldn't have a game, and i dont think you get what i am saying, i am using 0 PS and i can 2 hit most people, is that not ridiculous to you? you rarely glance and you rarely find yourself in trouble, no other weapon can do this, its OP and you know it,

Getting 17-7 with just a rondel dagger shouldnt be possible, its a sidearm weapon not a main weapon
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Shemaforash on September 14, 2013, 06:27:18 pm
16-6 seems like a reasonable score for any weapon..? what's the big issue
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: XyNox on September 14, 2013, 06:39:01 pm
I dont see a problem here. You didnt tell us how you got those kills and I assume you just stabbed people in the back of the head who were occupied with someone else. If so, ANY weapon can generate those stats. You make it sound like the rondel triumphs over greatswords, poleaxes and other top tier weapons, which I can easily prove to you is not the case with a 1 on 1 on EU3.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Gurnisson on September 14, 2013, 06:41:31 pm
16-6 seems like a reasonable score for any weapon..? what's the big issue

2-3 shot heavy armour with few to no ps with a weapon costing a massive 598 denars.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: karasu on September 14, 2013, 06:47:30 pm
Disregard how terrible it may seem, I've had quite some fun playing lately with those assassins running around crazy, gave me an extra need to keep watching my back, extra awareness, and randomizes a lot the outcome of a battle.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: zottlmarsch on September 14, 2013, 06:49:22 pm
In EU1 right now there are 60 people, only one of them has this agi build using Rondel dagger. He has a 4-4 KD. How dreadful this plague is!

I agree they can be pretty annoying, but I really can't see that it is so much of a problem, sorry.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: F i n on September 14, 2013, 07:23:00 pm
Disregard how terrible it may seem, I've had quite some fun playing lately with those assassins running around crazy, gave me an extra need to keep watching my back, extra awareness, and randomizes a lot the outcome of a battle.

apsodlutely
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 14, 2013, 07:23:31 pm
""""I have the looms, if i want them to nerf Rondel i guess the best way to ensure that happens is to loom one and brag on forums about how good it is. Guaranteed nerf. Far more effective than these '___ is OP' threads that people often ignore or get defensive on. So that's my aim, anyone who wants rondel to be nerfed i propose you go and spend your looms on getting +3 rondels, make a skip the fun 3/36 build and brag all over forums about how well you do and how the community are just 'mad cos bad' if they propose a nerf. We'll have this sucker doing 18 pierce by October!""""

Prob is when everybody is arguing like this. we have only trolls with daggers left. no more Knights. or samurais . or vikings. or durhzina. So maybe it would better to make a own mod. because i don´t like the jerk off child community what get happy when they can kill you. And you played like 2 years to get plate armour and make yourself knightly. Same with archers now every little retard can make now the same damage for bows. (like somebody who loomed his hole kit) don´t need to loom one. That people are getting angry should be naturally. but some people are really children with those things. And in TS we also have only children. but i worked hard for get all the looms. and they just think oh yeah fuck you simon. what not ok. on a scale like -200000 not ok.

When crpg dies it is only because of small little children what take over.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: polkafranzi on September 14, 2013, 07:38:00 pm
""""I have the looms, if i want them to nerf Rondel i guess the best way to ensure that happens is to loom one and brag on forums about how good it is. Guaranteed nerf. Far more effective than these '___ is OP' threads that people often ignore or get defensive on. So that's my aim, anyone who wants rondel to be nerfed i propose you go and spend your looms on getting +3 rondels, make a skip the fun 3/36 build and brag all over forums about how well you do and how the community are just 'mad cos bad' if they propose a nerf. We'll have this sucker doing 18 pierce by October!""""

Prob is when everybody is arguing like this. we have only trolls with daggers left. no more Knights. or samurais . or vikings. or durhzina. So maybe it would better to make a own mod. because i don´t like the jerk off child community what get happy when they can kill you. And you played like 2 years to get plate armour and make yourself knightly. Same with archers now every little retard can make now the same damage for bows. (like somebody who loomed his hole kit) don´t need to loom one. That people are getting angry should be naturally. but some people are really children with those things. And in TS we also have only children. but i worked hard for get all the looms. and they just think oh yeah fuck you simon. what not ok. on a scale like -200000 not ok.

When crpg dies it is only because of small little children what take over.

Dude chill.  You talking like us that play that class are doing it only to annoy others, not for our own pleasure.  I also have like 3-4 full knight sets, all +3 but it's boring as fuck playing same class for over 3 years (like you have afaik??).  Try these builds and lighten up, you just seem to be in a rage mode talking about kids all the time.  You're supposed to be like 28?  Of course it's a good feeling when someone with a small dagger can kill a plated knight on horseback, but as a matter of fact, doesn't make them a kid. I'm 29 and it's fun as fuck.  And working hard to get looms?  It's not exactly work...
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Fartface on September 14, 2013, 07:40:46 pm
I don´t realy see how Rondel Dagger is even close to OP , it has a nice pierce damage but that´s all it´s short and 1 directional and you can´t block with it. How hard is it to downblock the damn thing.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: pingpong on September 14, 2013, 07:42:24 pm
These daggerwhores are fun, i love 1 hitting them  :D , but yes maybe the price+dmg+effectiveness combo is a bit too much, i say rise the price of rondel to 3-5k and its fine
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: San on September 14, 2013, 07:42:46 pm
The weapon is too cheap and (IMO) shouldn't really be used with shields, but I like it that there are some daggers with strong stats. I wish there were some stronger daggers and then make it so that they can't be used well (or at all) with a shield. Other than that, I feel that there are enough counters built into the game to stop it. People who built slow characters will just have to be wary. 17-7 also isn't very convincing, you're a glass cannon that can get quick hits on enemies, but also die easily once caught.

With around 200 wpf and hardly any armor, it's like adding +2 to +3 PS compared to your average build. With low PS, it doesn't matter much since you only get  ~16-32% extra damage. Your 0PS is easily mitigated by high base pierce damage, high wpf, and speed bonus (easy to get with stabs since moving forward is the optimal movement). Even so, I doubt you'll 2shot people from full health if they don't let you get those high bonus attacks + holding; it's their fault for not having enough ath/too much armor and must accept this (rare) weakness. My 8ath guy would have a much easier time and can still wear better armor.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 14, 2013, 07:50:41 pm
i don´t chill i can 2 hit almost every horse even a plated charger. so fuck you that for sure. yeah and it get boring for you because of the fact that you could´t keep up with other people. So what do people when they can not be equal they make a troll class. Like with an dagger. or plated charger and an yumi bow.  :wink:
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 14, 2013, 07:51:14 pm
this is not even an good excuse for me that i should chill this argument dosent count at all.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: polkafranzi on September 14, 2013, 07:52:13 pm
These daggerwhores are fun, i love 1 hitting them  :D , but yes maybe the price+dmg+effectiveness combo is a bit too much, i say rise the price of rondel to 3-5k and its fine

Tbh it's a good suggestion but let us be realistic.  Most people have been playing a while now, and have plenty of gold to spare.  I sold my last loompoint purely for upkeeping certain items, and I think nothing of spawning my plated charger and paying the 4,5k upkeep, if it means I can use my 13 riding character and have fun.

Some virtual gold vs a nice warm feeling bumping some archer to death...I know where I stand  :mrgreen:

yeah and it get boring for you because of the fact that you could´t keep up with other people.

what??

you're hallucinating.

i can 2 hit almost every horse even a plated charger.

more hallucination.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 14, 2013, 07:57:18 pm
more hallucination? with an dagger of course :D
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Gurnisson on September 14, 2013, 07:59:08 pm
I don´t realy see how Rondel Dagger is even close to OP , it has a nice pierce damage but that´s all it´s short and 1 directional and you can´t block with it. How hard is it to downblock the damn thing.

It has all the swing directions in the secondary mode, so you can't just downblock by default like against long spears and pikes.

 It can deal massive damage with agility builds for all that I care, but I don't think it should be usable with what ends up as an almost unbreakable shield. It being strong for its price is okay, because without the shield it's quite a risky play-style. Wouldn't even mind seeing a small buff to the side swing damage if they make it unusable with a shield.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Strudog on September 14, 2013, 09:35:46 pm
Just to let you know, i did not use a shield and plus blocking is not needed with this weapon when you can run in stab the guy in the face and run out in a matter of milli seconds.

I dont think people get the point here either, the Rondel dagger would be fine if i used it in conjunction with at least 4 PS and i 2-3 hit people, but i dont u
i use 0 PS and i can do this.

PIm not saying that i am amazing with it like some people have suggested, i just find it ridiculous when i have the damage out put as someone with 7 PS with 0 PS.

Maybe i titled it wrong
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: zottlmarsch on September 14, 2013, 10:14:42 pm
Since you've made this Thread I swear i've seen an increase of about 5x more of the fuckers!  :lol:
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: pingpong on September 14, 2013, 10:19:12 pm
long rondel dagger confirmed for next patch, i got leaked info here are stats:

102 reach
45p dmg
130 speed

price 2034 gold
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Gurnisson on September 14, 2013, 10:42:15 pm
Strudog, with a 3/36 build you'll be one-shot by pretty much anything, one of those things being ranged. It's surely not gamebreaking being able to do nice damage up close when you're so fragile at length, be it against longer melee weapons or ranged. However, it's when you add a(n almost unbreakable) shield to the equation that the high damage with low to no ps doesn't have many downsides anymore.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: San on September 14, 2013, 10:47:07 pm
Just to let you know, i did not use a shield and plus blocking is not needed with this weapon when you can run in stab the guy in the face and run out in a matter of milli seconds.

I dont think people get the point here either, the Rondel dagger would be fine if i used it in conjunction with at least 4 PS and i 2-3 hit people, but i dont u
i use 0 PS and i can do this.

PIm not saying that i am amazing with it like some people have suggested, i just find it ridiculous when i have the damage out put as someone with 7 PS with 0 PS.

Maybe i titled it wrong

I'm trying to say PS isn't some magical factor for getting hits in. At low PS, your damage is only increased by like 30% or so, so the other damage multipliers are more important anyways and you should make due with 0PS given that high base pierce is its best companion. Going from 0 to 4 PS isn't going to double your attack, so if you 2-3 shot at 4PS, chances are that 3 shotting (and even 2) isn't farfetched given that you have more wpf and move faster. In general, high wpf makes up for some PS, but cRPG has a lousy wpf reduction from armor that's based on % instead of a raw subtraction like it should. You had all your wpf at your disposal.

A point in PS is similar to +2 damage. Your wpf is like +3 PS to the average build. Your damage output without speed bonus is close to 30 pierce and 5-6PS. Add great speed bonus and that means that you can still get in some pretty damaging hits. I doubt in the normal case (standing still, no holds) against a full HP guy that you're 2-shotting, but I believe it's possible with good speed bonus and holds (you may hold a bit while moving to get close enough).
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Teeth on September 14, 2013, 11:18:35 pm
First of all 17/7 is not an OP score, for a player like Strudog it's probably below average. I don't see how that is in any way gamebreaking. Sure the weapon is cheap, but so is the quarterstaff, maul and plenty of other cheap weapons that can be used to obtain top 5 scores. The build will still be oneshot by anything and his mother and I don't believe the two shotting everyone argument at all. I love gimmicky builds that are viable and I like that we have another one.

Instead let's focus on the real issue here: Fucking 1h stabs, they are broken.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: HoboJoe on September 14, 2013, 11:25:45 pm
Instead let's focus on the real issue here: Fucking 1h stabs, they are broken.
Nou! Since the change they no longer are!
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Dezilagel on September 14, 2013, 11:32:59 pm
Rondel + plate shield is stupidly effective.

And 1h stab is borked.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Strudog on September 15, 2013, 12:20:28 am
First of all 17/7 is not an OP score, for a player like Strudog it's probably below average. I don't see how that is in any way gamebreaking. Sure the weapon is cheap, but so is the quarterstaff, maul and plenty of other cheap weapons that can be used to obtain top 5 scores. The build will still be oneshot by anything and his mother and I don't believe the two shotting everyone argument at all. I love gimmicky builds that are viable and I like that we have another one.

Instead let's focus on the real issue here: Fucking 1h stabs, they are broken.

The difference is i would say that the dagger is a side weapon not a main weapon unlike the quarterstaff and maul which are main weapons this is what my argument is based around, i might be wrong.

For me getting 17/7 with just a rondel dagger is pretty good since all i have is a linen tunic, getting 1 hit all the time and plus 3 of those deaths were TK's
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Adam_Bomb on September 15, 2013, 01:53:39 am
Please lock this stupid thread. Thanks!
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Akynos on September 15, 2013, 11:38:50 am
How hard is it to downblock the damn thing.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Mala on September 15, 2013, 12:07:50 pm
...
Instead let's focus on the real issue here: Fucking 1h stabs, they are broken.

Like the polearm stabs.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Teeth on September 15, 2013, 12:09:25 pm
Like the polearm stabs.
True, much like the 2h stabs.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Akynos on September 15, 2013, 12:21:13 pm
Agree on 1h stab, can't kickslash a guy with an espada. Hell when I use with 6ps I can two shot a guy faster than I have ever been able to...this weapon has the highest DPS potential IMO
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Gravoth_iii on September 15, 2013, 02:42:56 pm
Rondel dagger is fine, for once a mass agiwhore build is viable, i have yet to be 2 shot by them, but i one shot them nearly every time. Also 1h stab is fine, just have to get used to them. 1h's needed a good stab, their previous was shit. Sometimes it feels like its bullshit but at the same time it is very predictable.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 16, 2013, 03:09:55 pm
Only change the Rondeldagger needs is a MASSIVE price increase, the secondary mode not being usable with a shield, a very slight speed decrease, and maybe its weight being upped to 4. Then all the other daggers should get slight stat buffs to compete/buff my long dagger.

BTW: Simon, what's your thing about penis sizes?
BTW2: The 1h stab could use a small speed decrease, nothing more though.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: F i n on September 16, 2013, 03:52:03 pm

BTW: Simon, what's your thing about penis sizes?


Isn't this whole topic about penis sizes? Or did i just get the wrong end of the stick again? No pun intended.


BTW: I agree on your BTW2, 2.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 16, 2013, 08:13:48 pm
Rondel is too cheap, otherwise it's fine. 

You're a paper tiger with that build....surely it can be annoying if you're slow moving (hell it's annoying with my "heavy" medium armor and 6 athletics).  But it's not OP, and I don't think anything should be done to the stats of the weapon.  Under 600 gold is really cheap for how effective of a killing utensil it is.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Adam_Bomb on September 17, 2013, 03:14:02 am
It's not OP. this thread feels like the same old "Something new! KILL IT!" bs that is prevalent on these forums.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on September 17, 2013, 01:38:00 pm
With most of my chars, I dont care about rondel spammers. The only exception is my xbower, very annoying to have a pure agi rondel spammer near me.
But hey, I'll just go HX instead of regular xbow so they cant catch me. Adapt to win  :lol:
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Nightmare798 on September 17, 2013, 01:43:57 pm
Its easy to avoid. No not when you are a tincan :D.....

then you just get killed....and cant do anything because you are to slow.... so  delete the word "avoid" out of your language now because you don´t know what it really means.

wow! this guy has much more efficent way of farming infamy than i do!

on topic:
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Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 18, 2013, 08:32:41 pm
"""Dude chill.  You talking like us that play that class are doing it only to annoy others, not for our own pleasure.  I also have like 3-4 full knight sets, all +3 but it's boring as fuck playing same class for over 3 years (like you have afaik??).  Try these builds and lighten up, you just seem to be in a rage mode talking about kids all the time.  You're supposed to be like 28?  Of course it's a good feeling when someone with a small dagger can kill a plated knight on horseback, but as a matter of fact, doesn't make them a kid. I'm 29 and it's fun as fuck.  And working hard to get looms?  It's not exactly work...""""

i dont care what other people do. or what you do. i only saying people should not be able to make satch a build. It is like playing with 13 shieldskill.  :wink:
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 18, 2013, 08:38:24 pm
"""Strudog, with a 3/36 build you'll be one-shot by pretty much anything, one of those things being ranged. It's surely not gamebreaking being able to do nice damage up close when you're so fragile at length, be it against longer melee weapons or ranged. However, it's when you add a(n almost unbreakable) shield to the equation that the high damage with low to no ps doesn't have many downsides anymore."""

Yeah but nobody can hit him any more when he runs that fast. but nice try to make his arguments abnegate. you pro player.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 18, 2013, 08:41:43 pm
learn 2 quote and edit posts.

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Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 18, 2013, 08:45:07 pm
"""First of all 17/7 is not an OP score, for a player like Strudog it's probably below average. I don't see how that is in any way gamebreaking. Sure the weapon is cheap, but so is the quarterstaff, maul and plenty of other cheap weapons that can be used to obtain top 5 scores. The build will still be oneshot by anything and his mother and I don't believe the two shotting everyone argument at all. I love gimmicky builds that are viable and I like that we have another one.

Instead let's focus on the real issue here: Fucking 1h stabs, they are broken.""""

You really are not getting it dont you theets. this shit is OP you can take out the finenst players only with an dagger so this sounds not weak-minded for you. Sometimes i really wonder man. i didnt hear one good argument yet why it should stay in the game. Yeah variation is cool but not when you can kill almost everything with that weapon.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 18, 2013, 08:50:13 pm
"""First of all 17/7 is not an OP score, for a player like Strudog it's probably below average. I don't see how that is in any way gamebreaking. Sure the weapon is cheap, but so is the quarterstaff, maul and plenty of other cheap weapons that can be used to obtain top 5 scores. The build will still be oneshot by anything and his mother and I don't believe the two shotting everyone argument at all. I love gimmicky builds that are viable and I like that we have another one.

Instead let's focus on the real issue here: Fucking 1h stabs, they are broken.""""

You really are not getting it dont you theets. this shit is OP you can take out the finenst players only with an dagger so this sounds not weak-minded for you. Sometimes i really wonder man. i didnt hear one good argument yet why it should stay in the game. Yeah variation is cool but not when you can kill almost everything with that weapon.

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Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: GandalfJr on September 18, 2013, 08:53:31 pm
Only the most skillful use this wepaon
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 18, 2013, 08:55:10 pm
"""Rondel dagger is fine, for once a mass agiwhore build is viable, i have yet to be 2 shot by them, but i one shot them nearly every time. Also 1h stab is fine, just have to get used to them. 1h's needed a good stab, their previous was shit. Sometimes it feels like its bullshit but at the same time it is very predictable."""

Just use a agi build then..... 1 hand step was never UP........ with a agi build you could step befor the change........ and another thing is that now you can step people with tincan armour what is rubbish again. But thanks for your idiotic opinion the opinion of a child. yes and my penis is bigger then yours.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 18, 2013, 09:00:45 pm
Simon, you never told me why you talk about dicks so much
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 18, 2013, 09:02:31 pm
""Simon, you never told me why you talk about dicks so much"" why you are the gay stalker what i should know?
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 18, 2013, 09:13:18 pm
 lets get honest... we have to stop this gay relationship between you and me....this is not working out. because i am not gay. sorry for the hard feeling now. but you will find someone.   :lol:
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 18, 2013, 09:46:26 pm
or maybe make a new seggestion.... what about a cristopher street day event. make daggers small little dildos and give use some nice gay fashion clothing.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 18, 2013, 09:49:17 pm
Simon learn how to quote and edit your posts you fucking scrub...hopefully you get muted for your sins.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 18, 2013, 09:49:47 pm
looks this boots good to that armour?  ........ No No theay make you look fat...... i like that ahlpike it has more length........ then a 2 hander..... oh man you are a bad boy..... i can not deal with 2 handers ......lets use daggers.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: DrTaco on September 18, 2013, 09:59:05 pm
I think the counter for Rondel Dagger is just to go HA. That seems to solve most of our problems in melee.

On a serious not, the only thing you can do is wait for the guy to make a mistake. This means you have to *gasp* block, and attack when it makes sense, not just block and swing.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Simon_Templar on September 18, 2013, 09:59:57 pm
why stoping with this bullcrap nobody makes good suggeestions to fix the problem ether. just troling around. and driveing my arguments crazy our not reliable. a community where only the argument of a few guys counts..... This Simon is a trol dont listen to him..... and this crazy stuff what hes talking..... yeah so funny.

So dont listen to me when you want to let the mod die.

Message 2:


acally just block and swing is the only thing what you can do because chaseing will not work not even with horses :D

it feels so good to show you guys how stupid you are
Modify message


Message 3:

but lets just do something else and let this mod die.



Use the modify button! - Tenne
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 18, 2013, 10:14:56 pm
lets get honest... we have to stop this gay relationship between you and me....this is not working out. because i am not gay. sorry for the hard feeling now. but you will find someone.   :lol:
You're waaaaaaay to in denial for me, sorry boy
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: F i n on September 19, 2013, 11:09:25 am
lets get honest... we have to stop this gay relationship between you and me....this is not working out. because i am not gay. sorry for the hard feeling now. but you will find someone.   :lol:

He's got me.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Strudog on September 19, 2013, 12:29:08 pm
i really dont think people know what i am getting at, 17-7 with a build that consists of a build that get 1 shot by everything is so hard to pull off, for those people stating that 17-7 is not a good score for strudog, can literally go fuck themselves, i would like to see you get a better score than that with this build, its so difficult.

its the fact that 0 PS rondel dagger can do more damage than 7 PS anything else, whats the point in having strength when you can just be effective with agi, its ridiculous
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Palurgee on September 19, 2013, 12:47:39 pm
Stating a few things because a lot of people in this thread seems to be forgetting them:

1. rondel isn't 1-directional, it has an alternate mode that allows swings and overheads. This mode also does pierce damage (26 at +0)
2. rondel has the strongest 1h stab in the game at +3, with 34 pierce.
3. 13 shield skill makes your shield unbreakable.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: XyNox on September 19, 2013, 03:59:44 pm
Let me quote myself:

I dont see a problem here. You didnt tell us how you got those kills and I assume you just stabbed people in the back of the head who were occupied with someone else. If so, ANY weapon can generate those stats. You make it sound like the rondel triumphs over greatswords, poleaxes and other top tier weapons, which I can easily prove to you is not the case with a 1 on 1 on EU3.

You still didnt tell us. You opened this thread because of the KD of 17 - 7 you achieved with this dagger. You admit yourself that you get oneshotted by pretty much anything and also you cant block and cant outreach people. Anyone who knows what he is doing will use a combo of holds and feints combined with backpeddal jumping to hit you before you are even in reach. Dont even get me started on ranged.

This leaves us with 2 options:
1. you killed unaware people from behind or people who didnt know what they were doing. - awareness/l2p issue
2. you killed people who got ganked and couldnt defend themselves.  - any weapon is good in such a situation.

Of course I understand your point, being that a 0 ps weapon should not deal so much damage but it seems you are trying to hide the fact that your build/weapon comes at the expense of reach, blocking and survivability. In the last days I got attacked from plenty of those agi daggers and barely lost any of those fights, even though I am an archer with low armor and low speed. When I got killed it was tony most of the time who sneaked up from behind but that is a problem with my awareness, not with the rondel.

Edit: Oh and I dont quite buy the 2 shotting in plate, not with full HP. Not with 0 ps.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Strudog on September 19, 2013, 04:16:41 pm
Let me quote myself:

You still didnt tell us. You opened this thread because of the KD of 17 - 7 you achieved with this dagger. You admit yourself that you get oneshotted by pretty much anything and also you cant block and cant outreach people. Anyone who knows what he is doing will use a combo of holds and feints combined with backpeddal jumping to hit you before you are even in reach. Dont even get me started on ranged.

This leaves us with 2 options:
1. you killed unaware people from behind or people who didnt know what they were doing. - awareness/l2p issue
2. you killed people who got ganked and couldnt defend themselves.  - any weapon is good in such a situation.

Of course I understand your point, being that a 0 ps weapon should not deal so much damage but it seems you are trying to hide the fact that your build/weapon comes at the expense of reach, blocking and survivability. In the last days I got attacked from plenty of those agi daggers and barely lost any of those fights, even though I am an archer with low armer and low speed. When I got killed it was tony most of the time who sneaked up from behind but that is a problem with my awareness, not with the rondel.

Edit: Oh and I dont quite buy the 2 shotting in plate, not with full HP. Not with 0 ps.

First of all you do not know how i played, it was on one of the smaller town maps thats has a very open areas, most of the time i found myself in 1v1 situations against 2h's, shielder the lot, and against some quite good players who know how to block. and have you tried this class?

You say the survivability the reach and blocking are all a fail with the build, please try the build first, all of these are not  needed when you can run in and out before the guy can react and swing his weapon, its OP, its not meant to be a main weapon and its deals fuck loads of damage for what its meant to be used for

Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: XyNox on September 19, 2013, 04:34:59 pm
First of all you do not know how i played, it was on one of the smaller town maps thats has a very open areas, most of the time i found myself in 1v1 situations against 2h's, shielder the lot, and against some quite good players who know how to block. and have you tried this class?

You say the survivability the reach and blocking are all a fail with the build, please try the build first, all of these are not  needed when you can run in and out before the guy can react and swing his weapon, its OP, its not meant to be a main weapon and its deals fuck loads of damage for what its meant to be used for

First of all, no, I didnt know how you played, which is why I asked the second time in the post above. Thank you for sharing now.

Second, I do play the class pretty much every time I drop my bow. When I do visit EU3 for dueling it is mostly because I want to have some dagger only fun with an alt. One of the main reasons I went with 1h wpf in many generations was so I can play dagger only and who knows, maybe I spent more time in total with daggers than you. The very reason I state that it is easy to counter is because I know exactly what your opponent has to do in order to give you a hard time, hard learned by a lot of trial and error.

I repeat myself, if you dont believe me, I invite you to a friendly sparring-match on EU3. Maybe I am wrong and you are so good with the rondel that I cant even defend myself with a glaive, which however would indeed surprise me.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Bulzur on September 19, 2013, 07:54:06 pm
XyNox, i don't think "how you played" is very much important in this cases.

The sole fact that you can rack up kills that easily with a 600 gold weapon is just wrong.
Very high athletics, means people don't bother chasing you, means you can easily attack people already engaged in melee, etc...
But what's incredible is the high damage output of such a weapon, if you needed 5 PS to be effective with it, no problem. But atm : BIG problem.

In battles, this weapon is just too good for it's price. Since you don't have an  opponent, and can pick off your future victims. Ofc, in a duel against a good reach weapon, it's very hard. But that's not how battle works.

And XyNox, glaive has an OP reach... that's some bullshit duel you're proposing...
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Fartface on September 19, 2013, 08:10:38 pm
XyNox, i don't think "how you played" is very much important in this cases.

The sole fact that you can rack up kills that easily with a 600 gold weapon is just wrong.
Very high athletics, means people don't bother chasing you, means you can easily attack people already engaged in melee, etc...
But what's incredible is the high damage output of such a weapon, if you needed 5 PS to be effective with it, no problem. But atm : BIG problem.

In battles, this weapon is just too good for it's price. Since you don't have an  opponent, and can pick off your future victims. Ofc, in a duel against a good reach weapon, it's very hard. But that's not how battle works.

And XyNox, glaive has an OP reach... that's some bullshit duel you're proposing...
I once managed to get a 30-2 score with scythe which is also damn cheap. It counts as an example according to this thread. SCYTHE OP NERF
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: F i n on September 20, 2013, 12:13:34 pm
Also we should nerf Strawhats since those Guard-Archers kill many ppl while having them equipped.

Every weapon is OP when the user knows how to use em.

Stop crying.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 20, 2013, 12:20:56 pm
Also we should nerf Strawhats since those Guard-Archers kill many ppl while having them equipped.

Every weapon is OP when the user knows how to use em.

Stop crying.
But strawhats aren't weapons.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: F i n on September 20, 2013, 12:22:04 pm
But strawhats aren't weapons.

damn it zlisch. stop lying!

Rondel dagger isnt a weapon either. Its the dude thats using it i'd call a weapon. now shut up. or ban.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 20, 2013, 12:25:38 pm
damn it zlisch. stop lying!

Rondel dagger isnt a weapon either. Its the dude thats using it i'd call a weapon. now shut up. or ban.
I challenge you to a duel on NA_3
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: F i n on September 20, 2013, 12:28:44 pm
I challenge you to a duel on NA_3

Only, if you agree on using rondels and strawhats only.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Kafein on September 23, 2013, 10:15:45 am
Or let's all get 100 pierce lightsabers, i'm sure the skilled players will still get better K/Ds, in which case the lightsabers wouldn't be OP right?

As we would all have one, no they wouldn't be OP.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on September 23, 2013, 12:59:37 pm
A solution could be to remove the secondary mode, which allows 4-directional attacks. They are fast and as efficient as the stab attack. I mean to think that a dagger swing could deal any noticeable damage on medium or heavy armor is crazy. While I still don't even approve of its almighty stab (because that would only work on a fallen enemy by aiming directly for open body areas), this could be an alright solution.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: DonNicko on September 23, 2013, 09:55:49 pm
OMG!!! My stats 27 str 9 IF, 55 armor, and I was killed twise with this dagger just by two hits(
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: no_rules_just_play on September 24, 2013, 12:16:34 am
my 7/33 pure xbow char with 0 powerstrike and all wpf in xbow:

1 sneaky shot in the back from point blank range -> kill with dagger -> kick of wall
took me about 10 seconds for this triple kill
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


this one was just a 5 stab 5 kill in less than 10 seconds
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


come on guys, its quite op indeed. I can do good with it on na servers!

Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Penitent on September 24, 2013, 12:54:12 am
It's a powerful weapon, but it has lots of downsides and people who use it are just as easy to kill as they are able to kill others.

I think most of the reason people have such success with this weapon is that their opponents are not used to its speed and attack methods (quick dart in and out, or rapid succession of crazy stabs) and they are caught off guard.

If it is truly OP, then more people will start using it, and then more people will get used to going up against it, and people will adapt their playstyles and stop underestimating it.

I don't think its very OP in its own right.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on September 24, 2013, 12:58:30 am
It's a powerful weapon.

You know this is where it all fails right? A dagger isn't supposed to be powerful.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Fartface on September 24, 2013, 01:19:20 am
You know this is where it all fails right? A dagger isn't supposed to be powerful.
Says who?
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Tojo on September 24, 2013, 01:20:53 am
You know this is where it all fails right? A dagger isn't supposed to be powerful.
I can kill you dead with a dagger or a sword, or even a fork, when you wear no armor and don't block.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on September 24, 2013, 01:31:17 am
A solution could be to remove the secondary mode, which allows 4-directional attacks. They are fast and as efficient as the stab attack. I mean to think that a dagger swing could deal any noticeable damage on medium or heavy armor is crazy. While I still don't even approve of its almighty stab (because that would only work on a fallen enemy by aiming directly for open body areas), this could be an alright solution.

Ok Tojo, have a read at that and save yourself the trouble of babbling about "I could do this and that".
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Kampfkarotte on September 24, 2013, 01:55:59 am

If it is truly OP, then more people will start using it, and then more people will get used to going up against it, and people will adapt their playstyles and stop underestimating it.

I don't think its very OP in its own right.

I totally agree with you. I played a whole generation with rondel (and sometimes with knife) and I have to say:
Every kill counted twice for me compared to normal melee, cause it was so hard to kill. Rondel is worse than most of 2h/pole/1h and definitely not OP.  8-)
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Rico on September 24, 2013, 12:03:19 pm
EU_2 community, would my char be more annoying if I gave her a Rondel Dagger?
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Prpavi on September 24, 2013, 01:37:51 pm
Sure some adjustment needs to be done, tbh I'm quite certain devs are also aware of this issue and will be fixed in the next patch, the real problem the patch won't come till December  2013! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Prpavi on September 24, 2013, 03:33:57 pm
My god...



Yes Son?
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: RobertOfDrugsley on September 24, 2013, 04:45:34 pm
Yes Son?

That would make Heksey ...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Bulzur on September 24, 2013, 07:29:38 pm
It's a powerful weapon, but it has lots of downsides and people who use it are just as easy to kill as they are able to kill others.

I think most of the reason people have such success with this weapon is that their opponents are not used to its speed and attack methods (quick dart in and out, or rapid succession of crazy stabs) and they are caught off guard.

If it is truly OP, then more people will start using it, and then more people will get used to going up against it, and people will adapt their playstyles and stop underestimating it.

I don't think its very OP in its own right.

Sorry, you're clearly underestimating this community.
We're not so low as to use xbow and rondel builds, i'd rather play with my own build and with a 2h sword that doesn't have a thrust, for example.

It's not because one item is clearly underpriced for it's effectiveness that you'll see dozens of people using it (though i've seen indeed at least 5 new dedicated rondel people...), just as you didn't always see Polearms when there was polestun, or 2handers when it was the only one with an OP stab.

People like to play and have fun, only a minority have fun trolling people with annoying effective builds.

I'll never sink so low as to use an xbow or a rondel.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Penitent on September 24, 2013, 07:39:44 pm
I think I mispoke when I said the rondel is "powerful."  It would have been more accurate to say "effective."

I like having a wide variety of effective weapon types, builds, and playstyles in the game.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Tojo on September 24, 2013, 10:19:28 pm
Ok Tojo, have a read at that and save yourself the trouble of babbling about "I could do this and that".

If ya do some research into what the rondel dagger was used for you will discover that it WAS used to kill HEAVILY armored targets. The way it was used was to use the extreme point on the rondel to wedge it in a crack in the armor. Examples being in the arm pit, neck, groin, or anywhere else that was exposed. Even fully plated knight used them to kill their plated enemies. With the daggers 4 direction mode I believe it has the pierce dmg because rondel daggers don't really have or need and edge. Just Imagine the character grips it in a stabbing motion. (or maybe get a patch that make it look that way)

That being said I see no reason why a peasant with a rondel dagger shouldn't be able to kill a tincan.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: San on September 24, 2013, 10:23:28 pm
Rondel is OP compared to other daggers and probably shouldn't be used with shield since you can't normally block with it. Stats-wise, the Scottish sword looks more appealing.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Penitent on September 24, 2013, 10:49:20 pm
Because of the idea of some fool using a rondel in actual melee combat, not just to finish off someone you're grappling with or who is lying on the ground. Because shield skill is based off agility so this 'peasant' is wearing a sock, but has a steel shield strapped to his left arm...

Justify the 4 directional pierce attack, fine, just give it to every other thrusting 1handed weapon then. Why not, i'm sure you can use them in the backhand just as well. There can't be one rule for the rondel, and one for everyone else, if we involve the possibility of different grips and 4 directions of pierce with 1 onehander, then it opens the question of why the others don't get it far more than if they just left it alone to begin with.

If we actually based the weapon attack directions off what you could do with them in real life then all 2directional polearms would have 4 directions, cos why not? I bet they could all be swung in combat situations. Also since we're on realism why do shields take agility to pick up when armour and weapons need strength? Why don't greatswords have crushthrough, or knockdown against foes who survive the swing, especially those in plate? Or maybe we could add a skill that allowed people to gain the extra attack directions and knockdown with all weapons... hmmm... that'd require a lot of strength in real life... let's base it off... agility! Game fixed.

At the risk of this devolving into a realism thread...I'd like to say that if a dude in cloth with a dagger charged a knight in plate in real life, he'd get cut in half by the knight (just like what usually happens in game).  However, if the cloth dude was fast enough, lucky enough, and/or skilled enough, he could rush the slower knight and stab him through the visor or in the neck (just like can happen in game).  This is ok.

However, you do have a point about the directional attacks.  Keep in mind, however, that the rondel can have either 1 direction or 3 directions, depending on the mode...not 4 directions.  I would not be upset if we added this ability to other daggers, or took it away from the rondel.

I think it should be added to other daggers so ppl can use them.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: //saxon on September 27, 2013, 04:33:54 pm
was this with a shield or without?
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Mr.K. on September 27, 2013, 05:30:50 pm
Introduce a str requirement for Rondel, problem solved. Something like 9 or 12 maybe. Also buff the other daggers as you promised when Rondel was introduced.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Adam_Bomb on October 05, 2013, 02:41:11 am
All I know is my lvl 33 3/36 character I built around using a rondel, (i.e. actually being able to still kill here and there) will be completely useless if its nerfed, and without a free respec ill probably just quit playing crpg altogether. Meh, there's some other good games out now anyway so go ahead and let the crybabies homogenize the game even more...
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on October 05, 2013, 04:04:38 am
if you take away my crappy toy I'm gonna be mad

welcome
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: BlueKnight on October 05, 2013, 04:09:47 am
welcome
It's late grumpy. Wat are you even doing on crpg forum at this time!?
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Bulzur on October 05, 2013, 01:47:11 pm
Rondel is OP compared to other daggers and probably shouldn't be used with shield since you can't normally block with it. Stats-wise, the Scottish sword looks more appealing.

Cost wise, the rondel dagger is OP.
People can litterally leech with it, since they use crappy armor "because" of their fighting style.
It has the best cost/effectiveness ratio ever.
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Delson on October 05, 2013, 02:30:43 pm
Did you have a shield

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on October 05, 2013, 03:31:21 pm
It's late grumpy. Wat are you even doing on crpg forum at this time!?

ye I know...  :cry:
my gf is in hospital this weekend so I stayed up pretty long
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: Osiris on October 05, 2013, 06:49:56 pm
he didn't have a shield just full agi
Title: Re: Rondel Dagger OP
Post by: BlueKnight on October 06, 2013, 02:14:24 am
ye I know...  :cry:
my gf is in hospital this weekend so I stayed up pretty long
Well, I wish her quick recovery then.