cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Sharky on May 12, 2011, 03:10:50 am

Title: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Sharky on May 12, 2011, 03:10:50 am
So, where is the fun in playing at impossible hours, with impossible pings? It isn't pretty, that's why in most games Americans plays in their servers while Europeans plays in Eu servers.

But i know, this is just a a free mod and the devs and admins probably don't want to take care of two strategus. If my guess is right, i suggest another solution like making two continents, with one playing battles on Na servers so the americans will be more happy to settle there, and an European continent where the battles are going on Eu servers.

This way you will have to take care of only one strategus, we will still all play togheter but a war between NA and Eu will be less likely. All will be happier to not play with 200 ping at 6 am, everybody wins.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Reinhardt on May 12, 2011, 03:12:34 am
So, where is the fun in playing at impossible hours, with impossible pings? It isn't pretty, that's why in most games Americans plays in their servers while Europeans plays in Eu servers.

But i know, this is just a a free mod and the devs and admins probably don't want to take care of two strategus. If my guess is right, i suggest another solution like making two continents, with one playing battles on Na servers so the americans will be more happy to settle there, and an European continent where the battles are going on Eu servers.

This way you will have to take care of only one strategus, we will still all play togheter but a war between NA and Eu will be less likely. All will be happier to not play with 200 ping at 6 am, everybody wins.

But then Acre would have to split   :cry:

I like the idea, but then again I don't. I think that if they make strategus more diplomacy and small battles and less super wars, everything would work out fine.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Sharky on May 12, 2011, 03:16:10 am
But then Acre would have to split   :cry:

I like the idea, but then again I don't. I think that if they make strategus more diplomacy and small battles and less super wars, everything would work out fine.
Well there will be always huge wars this is a game based on war anyway, so sooner or later we will have to do battles in servers in wich we wouldn't never play, on impossible hours too.
Multinational clans will have an advantage anyway, for example you acres could enstabilish a powerbase on both continents while europeans only clans will settle easy just on one continent.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: ManOfWar on May 12, 2011, 04:36:49 am
Do what an lljk member seleected, make 2 complete continents, one NA one EU
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Beauchamp on May 12, 2011, 10:19:28 am
we'd have to split too
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Casimir on May 12, 2011, 10:31:47 am
Good diplomacy should mean that you can provide coverage at all times of the day.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Sharky on May 12, 2011, 01:42:00 pm
Good diplomacy should mean that you can provide coverage at all times of the day.
I saw how well those agreements works in pratice. Na players that doesn't really care about their European contractors fighting really bad (and probably quitting mid game) .
And Eu players doing the same for their Na contractors ofc. Na players fighting on Eu servers and Eu players fighting on Na servers, teamkilling and spamming blindly.

Example:an european clan attacks a Na fief so the battle will be on an NA server. The Na have to recruit 60 NA players for fighting a battle at 5pm european Time wich means let's say 10am NA time. European clan have to recruit NA players too ofc....
Are you sure the best diplomacy will be able to get 120 Na players to show at that time? No, there will be 120 Europeans fighting with 200+ pings on an American servers. Really Funny!
That's just mental, and i didn't see it in any action game.

Battles between NA and Eu clans were always the worse, because or peoples who didn't give a damn fighted them, or people with really high pings at awful hours fighted them.

Nah, Eu and Na players just can't play togheter.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Hirlok on May 12, 2011, 02:05:45 pm
just to drop in my usual smartass note: bad ping does only affect the one who has it - so he has a disadvantage, will see things after they happened and have turte-like reflexes -  and becomes an easier target.

The myth that all others have to suffer and "lag"  because of the highpingers is still alive, but does not get more true over time.

If the server feels laggy, it is a problem of

- the server (too weak, too many players, other stuff in the background causing trouble)
- the server's internet connection (our servers seem NOT to be hosted in a datacenter....)
- your internet connection
- your computer

One of those or a combination.

There is no disadvantage for other players on the server, if some people have high ping, except the highpingers will most likely suck and maybe cause a little more friendly fire because they have to compensate for the timeshift.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: okiN on May 12, 2011, 02:16:06 pm
From the viewpoint of an EU player, I support it 100%. I can see a few reasons why it might not be done, though, the work involved in making the split happen notwithstanding. Main question is whether the NA community for cRPG big and diverse enough to properly support their own game.

Still, to be perfectly honest, whatever issues it might lead to, I think it'd be worth it. Having the two on the same map really adds absolutely nothing but negative effects, at least for the EU side.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Leiknir on May 12, 2011, 02:53:01 pm
I try to lobby chadz, as it is absolutly no fun playing on foreign servers. And I think anyone who (really) played strategus knows, a war between a big EU and NA faction is unlikely to happen because it's just frustrating, making 1/3 of the current map "unused".
People that are concerned that the community will be split, well, it already is, I know nearly nothing about the NA playerbase, and you can't tell me you participate much on the other side of the pond (tournaments for example, clan battles and such).

My current idea would be:
2 calradias, players can chose on which they spawn, and freely travel between them with ships.
EU continent forces EU server and has EU-nighttime(no battles, less speed on the map), NA continent the NA server and NA-nighttime. If you are a masochistic one, you are free to play on the other continent, but you won't be able to force your server on them.

If you have a mixed clan, you either take coastal regions on both continents, or a part of your playerbase has to suck it up and always play on foreign server. Not that different from the current situation, if you currently have 50% NA and 50% EU players, 50% of your players always fight on the wrong server anyways.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: okiN on May 12, 2011, 02:59:15 pm
I don't really see the point of that kind of system, but I wouldn't really care either way as long as the NA continent is smaller than the EU one, proportional to player base. It's only fair. :P
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Sharky on May 12, 2011, 03:05:58 pm
just to drop in my usual smartass note: bad ping does only affect the one who has it - so he has a disadvantage, will see things after they happened and have turte-like reflexes -  and becomes an easier target.

The myth that all others have to suffer and "lag"  because of the highpingers is still alive, but does not get more true over time.

If the server feels laggy, it is a problem of

- the server (too weak, too many players, other stuff in the background causing trouble)
- the server's internet connection (our servers seem NOT to be hosted in a datacenter....)
- your internet connection
- your computer

One of those or a combination.

There is no disadvantage for other players on the server, if some people have high ping, except the highpingers will most likely suck and maybe cause a little more friendly fire because they have to compensate for the timeshift.
I know that for who has good ping is a dream slaughtering people with high ping is easy and doesn't cause any issue to them.
In mine example i pointed out that on strategus it was possible to have an entire NA server full of europeans, so the entire server population played with bad ping.
It happened a lot of times to have a majority of NA players on european servers and viceversa, thing that would be impossible to imagine on regular crpg server (or any other action game)
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Camaris on May 12, 2011, 03:24:58 pm
If you make 2 continents you also could do 3.

2 smaller continents - only EU and only US
1 bigger - EU and US

Another Solution would be Timezones for continents.

Continent one 8h open for battles
Continent two 8h open for battles
Continent three 8h open for battles

Just an example.
So mixed clans could compete at every continent and EU US etc. could concentrate on their favorite.
Nobody would be excluded this way.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: okiN on May 12, 2011, 03:28:02 pm
If you make 2 continents you also could do 3.

2 smaller continents - only EU and only US
1 bigger - EU and US

That would totally defeat the point of splitting up the map in the first place.

Different time zones for the two continents were already included in Leiknir's post.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Camaris on May 12, 2011, 03:35:53 pm
One problem i see with this that you still only have two strategus servers eu and us.
So probably only 2 timezones would bring any benefit.
But that would kill matches at saturday morning for eu for example ;) i liked those.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Reinhardt on May 12, 2011, 04:24:21 pm
I still would rather have a single (much larger than calradia) map.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: ManOfWar on May 12, 2011, 06:29:04 pm
What leikner makes the most sense,

1. Make it one ginormous map, both NA and EU

2. There are 2 large continents , one NA one EU

3. This would allow the Na and EU to still trade with this new economy system
b. This would allow for awesome sea battle in between if they are ever implemented
c.  The mixed clans can still stay together and both communities both EU and NA still stay somewhat together, or at least influence one another with troop transports and what not

P.s make it so the the continents  lack a resource that the other has( make trading necessary)
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: gazda on May 12, 2011, 06:34:41 pm
im for it, esppecially now when strategus is on its way
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on May 12, 2011, 06:37:02 pm
A believer HALLAJUAH!
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on May 12, 2011, 07:08:27 pm
I don't really see the point of that kind of system, but I wouldn't really care either way as long as the NA continent is smaller than the EU one, proportional to player base. It's only fair. :P

The  :P May have been used however this is actually an important point.

Otherwise the American factions will all on average be more powerful than the European as they will be fitting less players into an equally sized area. Leading to a larger "GDP per capita". This would then give an advantage to the American continent in any continental wars.


---

I would rather see a better developed territorial control system that allows you to choose the server you fight your battles on, like what we had before but better. Think something more along the lines of "core provinces" in Europa Universalis. Or as suggested by others a total disconnect as opposed to an imbalanced American continent.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Keshian on May 13, 2011, 01:22:00 am
Wrong, Since strategus ended the NA population has doubled with a number of clans coming from Native, we have same number of servers and roughly the same number of players as EU.  Also, a lot of the new people have joined clans who were previously active on Strategus or are planning to be. 
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Thovex on May 13, 2011, 01:25:15 am
Wrong, Since strategus ended the NA population has doubled with a number of clans coming from Native, we have same number of servers and roughly the same number of players as EU.  Also, a lot of the new people have joined clans who were previously active on Strategus or are planning to be.

Not for anything but EU players had a blast aswell.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Nessaj on May 13, 2011, 03:51:27 am
I try to lobby chadz, as it is absolutly no fun playing on foreign servers. And I think anyone who (really) played strategus knows, a war between a big EU and NA faction is unlikely to happen because it's just frustrating, making 1/3 of the current map "unused".
People that are concerned that the community will be split, well, it already is, I know nearly nothing about the NA playerbase, and you can't tell me you participate much on the other side of the pond (tournaments for example, clan battles and such).

My current idea would be:
2 calradias, players can chose on which they spawn, and freely travel between them with ships.
EU continent forces EU server and has EU-nighttime(no battles, less speed on the map), NA continent the NA server and NA-nighttime. If you are a masochistic one, you are free to play on the other continent, but you won't be able to force your server on them.

If you have a mixed clan, you either take coastal regions on both continents, or a part of your playerbase has to suck it up and always play on foreign server. Not that different from the current situation, if you currently have 50% NA and 50% EU players, 50% of your players always fight on the wrong server anyways.

This. Would. Make. Strategus. Awesome.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Sharky on May 13, 2011, 04:06:02 am
I would rather see a better developed territorial control system that allows you to choose the server you fight your battles on, like what we had before but better. Think something more along the lines of "core provinces" in Europa Universalis.
Well that would be better then the current system, like if you take control of a fief for some time, after a while you gain a core and you can always choose you favourite server to do battles on that fief and all the lands near it.

But it still would have a lot of issues, for example: A na clan attack an army outisde an Eu fief. Since they know the battle will happen on eu server, they attack at some impossible hours for europeans, so the defenders will probably have to recruit the North americans randomers that wants/can fight at that hour. So we will have 120 North americans fighting in an European server, with ovius results.

I think a total split would be the best. If impossible a territories split is the second best solution, i think too that Na players are much less and they should have a smaller continent for balance reasons, but for the sake to not playing with huge ping and hours i would accept even a 50% 50% split if NA/Eu player ratio can't be determined easy. Or just make the Na continent 20, 30% smaller so we can't go wrong.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Loki on May 13, 2011, 07:18:39 am
I'm against this as long as the strategus server is ran by a clan.  We've already seen massive abuse, this would just make it worse.  Also this won't stop the shitty time slots and bad pings.  I make sure the battles are at bad times for my enemies, because I plan ahead of time.  We recruit NA and EU players so we can cover all time zones.  We had the NA players make archers for strategus to compensate for the bad pings.

All in all it'd be more trouble than it's worth, and wouldn't solve any of the problems.  You're still gonna have battles scheduled while you're at work and at 3am.  And my ping will always be shitty because I live on the west coast.   
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Gamerofthegame on May 13, 2011, 07:50:19 am
Still, the idea is to try and limit it from happening all the time. Will it happen? 'Course. But it'd be nice to try and lessen it.

Two continents sound nice, though it also sounds like a bit more work to actually make it up.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: PhantomZero on May 13, 2011, 08:09:57 am
Two continents sound nice, though it also sounds like a bit more work to actually make it up.

True it is, lets leave the map the way it is now so we can get some sort of Strategus faster. Deal with a new map/continent issue after the current territories are to be wiped.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on May 13, 2011, 09:05:33 am
I don't really like this idea at all.

Firstly, it would split up a lot of clans. There was supposed to be a tactical element to recruiting EU/NA players or at least making friends with an EU/NA clan (respective to what continent your clan is based in).
Anything that widens the gap between players is a bad idea I think - I enjoy playing with the NA guys, and having them forced by a mechanic to be more remote and less involved in EU stuff (or the other way around) is limiting to enjoyment. NA has quite a few big and small clans, having them so far removed would lessen the content of strategus I think.

Unless something is changed (and I don't think it will be) strategus will always be quite time consuming for a clan, and they'll have to manage it as best as they can. You're always going to have times when you're going to be vulnerable to attack - not everyone in your clan can play 24/7. Instead of eliminating the possibility of having someone attack you at night, it'd be better to have to deal with it by making friends with an NA clan and trying some diplomatic solutions.

And why only for NA? Obviously its not such a big time zone difference, but from my memories of strategus, most night attacks against EU clans were done by Russian clans, mostly in the early morning (2-6 am GMT). And obviously there isn't such a large player base, but what about China? Chinese clans are still playing, and I think there are some Australian ones too.

I think the defender picking the server solution worked fine. You have to spend more resources attacking than you would normally, plus hire players from the other continent if you want to win, but its a far better solution than to separate a huge amount of players.
I think all that will happen is that EU/NA diplomatic involvement will be necessary, and NA and EU clans will be hesitant to go to war with each other directly. It'll create some interesting tactical situations.

Also, playing with 150 or so ping isn't so bad. For archery its ok, and 100 ping can work as a 2hander even. Or just buy all your troops big spammy weapons and low armour and use them as Forlorn Hope.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Thovex on May 13, 2011, 09:15:30 am
I don't like the splitting up either, but I do like the idea of 2 calradia's, just a bigger map.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Leiknir on May 13, 2011, 04:08:43 pm
We had the NA players make archers for strategus to compensate for the bad pings.
I am sure they have fun beeing forced to play as 1 role, as any other role is useless for them. They can fight and play on EU territory in the future, too, but won't be able to force NA server there. So nothing much changed for them.
Quote
All in all it'd be more trouble than it's worth, and wouldn't solve any of the problems.  You're still gonna have battles scheduled while you're at work and at 3am.
No. Read my idea, I suggest there will be "night times", during which there will be no battles, and movement speed halfed. With the 2 continents you can have EU nighttime here, and NA nighttime there, this would not be possible with the current system.




I suggested a "soft-split", no one will be forced on which continent they spawn, your clan will still be able to play together, if you want to play on both servers for some reason, settle coastal regions. I think most of the "mixed" clans operated on one server anyways, didn't they?

And please stop with that "It will split the NA and EU community even more!" stuff. That implies they were together once, outside of the forums. How many NA clans are participating in the fallens events? Out of 19, I see 1 NA clan. Shogunate tournament has 0 NA clans. Are there even NA tournaments? I have no idea. But as far as I can tell, really mixed clans are the minority here.

You say it was fine with the old system, but were you really playing strategus (more than "I sit in my village all day long!")? Once in ye olde days filthy NA-LLJK were attacking our proud EU-Kwynn, they stood no chance. Not because they sucked, but because they just had no chance with their ping (people told me I was a good commander after that crushing victory, but I think everyone knew why we wiped the floor with them). I doubt they had much fun in that battle. Or that one battle where fallens had 10k(?) troops in our southern land, Loki was on a egotrip and decided NA server. It ended as 60 EU players versus 40 EU players and 20 NA players. Guess which 20 had fun.
All this ping stuff, hiring of foreign players and chosing fugly timeslots is stupid metagaming that kills the fun and should be removed.

My suggestion so far:
This system would allow the die-hard international clans to settle coastal areas, and have fun on both servers, or force 1 server on all their players, like some already do. And the majority of the clans can play freely without having to worry about night attacks, lagfests and other fugly metagaming

Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Gurnisson on May 13, 2011, 04:45:07 pm
Players can participate in battles on both continents (if they get hired)

If so, there should be a tag on the recruitement page that shows if he belongs to the EU or NA continent, so you know if you're about to hire a high-pinger or a low-pinger.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on May 13, 2011, 07:34:18 pm
And please stop with that "It will split the NA and EU community even more!" stuff. That implies they were together once, outside of the forums.

Well, they were together once, before NA got a server. Also, plenty of clans have had a proportionate number of NA players as members.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Blondin on May 13, 2011, 07:53:42 pm
Once again, each one defend his own interest...
International clans want a single continent as they have worked to have multi continent members,
Single continent clans want to split the server cause they fear to be ineffective against the other one.

I'm not in a clan, and i have participated in NA and EU battles, both was funny, high ping was harder ofc, but with some training you can achieve to anticipate.

I don't see any problem to have only one continent, it adds strategy and tactic, it adds alliances NA/EU (not only on forum).
Strategus is on 24/24h, fief owners have to deal with it.

Btw, ofc 2 continents will split even more the community.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Sharky on May 14, 2011, 02:59:24 am
I'm surprised, i tough that this idea would get support from all players, i wonder how many of those who disagree had fight some of those wierd "120 eu players playing in a Na server" battles.

Name me only one action game that requires you to play on another continent server. There must be a reason there aren't. And don't tell me that you just need good diplomacy to be able to recruit mercs for every slot/hour, as showed by strat history and by my previous examples that is bs.

Also it's not true that most clan are multicontinental, they are just an handful. Those few clans will still have the same advantage, having the possiblity to have soldiers from their clan at every hour and to expand on two continents.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Thovex on May 14, 2011, 11:04:46 am
I'm surprised, i tough that this idea would get support from all players, i wonder how many of those who disagree had fight some of those wierd "120 eu players playing in a Na server" battles.

Name me only one action game that requires you to play on another continent server. There must be a reason there aren't. And don't tell me that you just need good diplomacy to be able to recruit mercs for every slot/hour, as showed by strat history and by my previous examples that is bs.

Also it's not true that most clan are multicontinental, they are just an handful. Those few clans will still have the same advantage, having the possiblity to have soldiers from their clan at every hour and to expand on two continents.

It would split out 40 people of my community.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Beauchamp on May 14, 2011, 11:32:10 am
i'm lost, what is the last suggestion?

if its just a new map design that will feature some continents (that will be maybe settled by the same timezoned clans) while you still can fight on both? than i'm down for it.

still i'm not sure if it will change much (like international clans like us or acre will still be using the advantage they got because of na player base). and pure NA or pure EU clans won't fight each other anyways (but this is the same like it was in strategus until now).

but of course we could use a better map after this beta is over. in the end i'm sure we will have one as the playerbase increased A LOT and the world is to crowdy.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: okiN on May 14, 2011, 01:21:09 pm
Once again, each one defend his own interest...
International clans want a single continent as they have worked to have multi continent members,
Single continent clans want to split the server cause they fear to be ineffective against the other one.

I'm not in a clan, and i have participated in NA and EU battles, both was funny, high ping was harder ofc, but with some training you can achieve to anticipate.

I don't see any problem to have only one continent, it adds strategy and tactic, it adds alliances NA/EU (not only on forum).
Strategus is on 24/24h, fief owners have to deal with it.

Btw, ofc 2 continents will split even more the community.

Defending my own interest? Maybe my own interest as an individual player. I don't care about clans, as such, I just don't want to ever be in a situation where I have to think about fighting on the NA server, and I don't want to have to worry about being attacked at four AM if I happen to have NA players nearby. Sure, you can try to work around both of these problems, but the fact is I think either case detracts from my experience as a gamer, adding nothing. Maybe you enjoy that kind of thing, but you do it at the expense of the rest of us.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Sharky on May 14, 2011, 03:43:49 pm
i'm lost, what is the last suggestion?

if its just a new map design that will feature some continents (that will be maybe settled by the same timezoned clans) while you still can fight on both? than i'm down for it.

still i'm not sure if it will change much (like international clans like us or acre will still be using the advantage they got because of na player base). and pure NA or pure EU clans won't fight each other anyways (but this is the same like it was in strategus until now).

but of course we could use a better map after this beta is over. in the end i'm sure we will have one as the playerbase increased A LOT and the world is to crowdy.
My first idea was just to split NA from EU, but since there are Multinational clans and probably the effort to manage two strategus would be too much for lazy chadz, i proposed creating a new map with two continents, one with Eu timezone and another with NA. We will still be able to fight other continents battles, and go to both continents ofc.
Not a big change really, but it will make less likely to have an open na vs eu war, that isn't nice.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: RandomDude on May 14, 2011, 06:39:05 pm
Before my long break I used to play on NA servers quite often with other fallen but that's pretty much the only reason I played there.

It sux to play with high ping - it's frustrating but then a lot of things were in strategus and you just got used to it.

I would say there's enough NA players to have their own strategus.

I wouldnt really want to split with my clan-mates though and who is going to fight for us when we have a 5/6/7/8am battle?
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Leiknir on May 14, 2011, 07:24:37 pm
I wouldnt really want to split with my clan-mates though and who is going to fight for us when we have a 5/6/7/8am battle?
They are still free to fight on EU servers, they dont get banished.
I suggest a nighttime, during which no timeslots for battles are open. Maybe for the 8am battle you need an alarm clock, but the other ones shouldnt be possible
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: panderson on May 15, 2011, 01:51:29 am
System works as is.  No change is needed. 

If someone wants to try to fight us off peak, we will merc out as much as we can.  If we don't win, then we'll take it back on their off peak.

There were plenty of prime time battles.  It doesn't behoove either side to fight off peak hours (you still need to get your own ppl to be there to fight it), but if one side can pull it off, then they deserve it.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tristan on May 15, 2011, 02:50:11 am
My current idea would be:
2 calradias, players can chose on which they spawn, and freely travel between them with ships.
EU continent forces EU server and has EU-nighttime(no battles, less speed on the map), NA continent the NA server and NA-nighttime. If you are a masochistic one, you are free to play on the other continent, but you won't be able to force your server on them.

If you have a mixed clan, you either take coastal regions on both continents, or a part of your playerbase has to suck it up and always play on foreign server. Not that different from the current situation, if you currently have 50% NA and 50% EU players, 50% of your players always fight on the wrong server anyways.

This, this, please implement this!
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Dexxtaa on May 15, 2011, 08:51:04 am
So, where is the fun in playing at impossible hours, with impossible pings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzZ-Mgi1My4
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: kastellan on May 15, 2011, 09:49:22 pm
This, this, please implement this!

yeah, it sounds good
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Timotheusthereal on May 15, 2011, 11:32:41 pm
I say NO!
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Thovex on May 16, 2011, 12:09:21 pm
This, this, please implement this!

Agreed!
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tor! on May 16, 2011, 04:09:40 pm
This, this, please implement this!
Yes, please.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Diavolo on May 21, 2011, 09:38:45 pm
I agree with OP.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Seprest on May 23, 2011, 03:30:22 am
Why do people think you need to split?!??!  You just all join one server lol!   One will just be preferable for EU/NA players to use!  Not saying that this is needed, tho.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Jacko on May 27, 2011, 11:57:24 pm
Filthy Americans, begone I say, BEGONE!
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tristan on May 28, 2011, 02:17:36 am
Why do people think you need to split?!??!  You just all join one server lol!   One will just be preferable for EU/NA players to use!  Not saying that this is needed, tho.

What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: PhantomZero on May 28, 2011, 01:16:48 pm
I think he might be assuming Strategus is going to be like Persistant Worlds or something.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Oberyn on May 29, 2011, 01:36:52 pm
If the two continents are linked by trade and travel is possible, it's really not that different from old Strategus. NA clans more or less were a big, isolated land concerned with its own internal affairs in the previous Strategus. Like someone pointed out the possibility of a war between NA and EU landholders was slim since any invasion would easily be repelled by whoever was the defender and chose the server. The interactions were limited to diplomatic relations and mutual defence treaties. If anything with the implementation of trade the interests of the different timezones will have more opportunity to converge. If my supplier of a particular good (say, iron or whatever) across the sea is involved in a war, it could directly affect my own capability to defend myself, or support the economy of my holdings. Depending on relations with the supplier and the direction the war is going, you could work out a deal with the invader to continue the trade after conquest, or send troops, weapons and armor to your supplier.
As it was the NA clans felt that they had to band together in one megablock to counter any possible threats from EU clans looking to expand and it was just a stalemate for the duration of the game. Giving NA the chance to have their own intrigues and wars with their own continent, while still being relevant to each other through trade and diplomacy sounds better. There may not have been enough NA clans and players to justify it when Strat was just launched, but it was also said that NA now has a lot more clans and players. There's always going to be a divide due to latency anyways, may as well manifest it literally by having two linked separate continents.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Jarlek on May 30, 2011, 12:13:15 pm
Yes!
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Sultan Eren on May 30, 2011, 01:44:42 pm
Splitting worlds also so medieval-ish.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tristan on May 30, 2011, 04:02:27 pm
Old world to the old wolders and new world to the new worlders.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Keshian on May 30, 2011, 09:52:16 pm
If they split NA will definitely be the british side of the sea, you EU people can be the French....
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Jarlek on May 31, 2011, 01:40:24 am
Make instead a big nice world with loads of towns, villages, castles and resources and then have a small island nation to the south big enough for the USA with 4-5 REALLY SPECIAL resources or something. Then make another island to the north for all the Asians to fight on. Maybe one unique resource here too?

Not really serious that btw, but If you split it then don't do a East/West thing. I would rather have a Central continent thingy with some islands or slightly separated (think Norway/Sweden in europe) landmasses that the smaller communities could focus on. Maybe like a big Island group + a slightly separated mainlandconnected part for the bigger NA community to the south and some lesser island to the east or west for the smaller asian community. Then the EU/NA clans could focus on the borderlands while NA pure could go for the islands, maybe the mainland if feeling courageous with the pings...
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Reinhardt on May 31, 2011, 03:44:06 am
...why not just make more diplomacy rather than 100% war? I mean... old strategus was all about eliminating everyone forever, so that's why people stuck together. With the new strategus, I hope that there will be more intrigue and less all-out 200k ticket wars. NA/EU, I see no problem with not splitting them. I'd rather us all be together.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Elmetiacos on June 15, 2011, 06:24:36 pm
System works as is.  No change is needed. 
As someone who couldn't defend his own village because the battle was scheduled at 5am my time, I say no, it didn't work as was.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: ArchonAlarion on June 15, 2011, 07:08:01 pm
Multiple continents that force server for real world locations would be so COOL.

The continents should be similarly sized, but the terrain should be different.

If items required terrain specific resources to produce (wood-forests, metal-mountains, wool-pastureland, etc.), and the world map terrain translated to the battle terrain, then over time the continents would evolve different fighting styles.

My underwear is now sticky thinking about it.

Like, if the NA continent had lots of steppes and plains, then horseback combat would dominate; if EU had lots of forests and hills, then archery would take more precedence. This would be a general trend though, not a necessity.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: JihadistMexican on June 15, 2011, 07:11:41 pm
I would support either a total split of NA/EU players or a map with two continents and players being able to choose where they spawn and the ability to sail between the continents. Like one person said, If your clan is half EU/NA you can settle in the coastal regions making it easier to support each other.  If you say your clan is going to be split up, then split up your clan into an EU section and an NA section. Leadership would have to be changed and leaders who want the best for their clan would choose this idea. Unless your the leader who wants total control they you would not support this idea.

EDIT: EU leaders who say their clans would be split: How many of your members are actually active and would split be from clan if there were 2 different strategus'?
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: CtrlAltDe1337 on June 15, 2011, 07:31:54 pm
I'm an NA player and I support this.  Why not make the map bigger and have 2 continents (add one to the west of Calradia).  Calradia can be for EU, the new one for NA (or vice versa).  Make it possible to reach the other's continent across the ocean but it should take a while.  That way if someone conquers all of 1 continent they can start an invasion.  Maybe make each continent only EU or only NA servers so people will naturally segregate.  If you want to hang around the other's area nothing will stop you; you will just have high ping (think of it as a home advantage :P )


The NA community is big enough to support this.  Right now most NA guilds are allied to combat the big EU guilds.  If a separate NA map was created, we could fight eachother.

Heck, you could even create a small Australian island somewhere in the middle :P
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Joseph on June 15, 2011, 07:39:04 pm
Multiple continents that force server for real world locations would be so COOL.

The continents should be similarly sized, but the terrain should be different.

If items required terrain specific resources to produce (wood-forests, metal-mountains, wool-pastureland, etc.), and the world map terrain translated to the battle terrain, then over time the continents would evolve different fighting styles.

My underwear is now sticky thinking about it.

Like, if the NA continent had lots of steppes and plains, then horseback combat would dominate; if EU had lots of forests and hills, then archery would take more precedence. This would be a general trend though, not a necessity.

It'd be interesting to see how the world will react to an invader (greek vs persian style).
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: JihadistMexican on June 15, 2011, 07:45:17 pm
That would interesting. But lets hope no stinky frenchmen invade. That would be terrible.

+1 for sticky underwear
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Chico on June 15, 2011, 08:22:07 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


NA would be on Dothrakies continent ofcourse.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Matey on June 16, 2011, 07:30:35 am
chadz ever posted his thoughts on this? id like to know if its a possibility ;{
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Cyclopsided on June 16, 2011, 07:42:08 am
Just saying, Eu always makes the argument of NA player base being small without realizing that they are very similar in number nowadays...
I'm all for a split. I don't want to have to fight on eu servers with over 200 ping. I went to try and duel there and my blocks won't work with that lag :(
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Matey on June 16, 2011, 07:48:52 am
not to mention that i dont have any grudges against any EU players... i dont really know any EU players. I have lots of NA players id love to kick around in strat though! but if its a big NA alliance and a big EU alliance... then theres no room for any smaller factions to duke it out without getting wiped off the map.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: tankmen on June 16, 2011, 09:06:20 am
i remember asking this on the old forums.... chadz says he enjoys the annoyance caused by NA/EU grouped together. IDK maybe his view changed, doubt it
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Warcat on June 16, 2011, 09:11:14 am
I wouldn't mind a bigger map (more room to conqueror) and even choosing where to start. But I don't want a split between NA and EU. I like they way it is where defenders determine the server. You can find people who will fight when the battle is, or in the case of Fallen, always have people in a timezone that can play. NA and EU factions choosing to group up in areas together may not be a bad idea though.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Kenji on June 16, 2011, 09:45:15 am
From all the discussion I'm seeing, I prefer the split continent idea.

But enable the trades between the continents through sea? So that cities with ports will have its unique value, thus adding more variety towards Strategus gameplay.

Of course... One step at a time, there's no need to add more stress onto the devs as they already have a lot in their hands, I believe.

Maybe they have mortgages and kids to take care of, which I could understand.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on June 16, 2011, 05:13:25 pm
I'm against a splitt cause it will splitt the community, NA and EU will not share anything.

EU will not make a big alliance, many Eu clans are at war each others.
I never understood why Na clan make a big alliance, they were scared by something, but Eu never attacked them because of bad ping.
Only LLKJ had the bollock to go by themself.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: JihadistMexican on June 16, 2011, 08:03:12 pm
The community is already split.  If the community was together in arms we would be playing in EU servers and having a blast no matter the ping. But were not are we? We have NA servers cause we don't want to play with 200+ ping.
I don't really care about Euros. Most of them aren't even on when I'm awake lol.  If their asleep and I'm awake we can't really have fun playing together. I think the community is just fine. And relating to what Brunch said, I don't think Euros have much of a community as they did before.  I would like the idea of making a poll of how many NA/EU players there are now who are active and how many of them would participate in Strat.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: JihadistMexican on June 16, 2011, 08:05:54 pm
"not to mention that i dont have any grudges against any EU players... i dont really know any EU players. I have lots of NA players id love to kick around in strat though! but if its a big NA alliance and a big EU alliance... then theres no room for any smaller factions to duke it out without getting wiped off the map."

This ^
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: PhantomZero on June 16, 2011, 08:34:13 pm
I'm against a splitt cause it will splitt the community, NA and EU will not share anything.

EU will not make a big alliance, many Eu clans are at war each others.
I never understood why Na clan make a big alliance, they were scared by something, but Eu never attacked them because of bad ping.
Only LLKJ had the bollock to go by themself.

Herp derp derp whatever you say Wolf Blitzer
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on June 17, 2011, 09:31:18 am
Eu community is smaller than before?!
Are you kidding? It has never been so big, and a lot of players are waiting for Strat and will come back.

Btw, even is there is not 2 big alliances (which is impossible) little clans will be crush by bigger clans anyway, crush or they should join the bigger one, what do you believe, this is Strategus, there will be blood!

In fact you're right guys, more i read your post, more i want a splitt strat too...
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Memento_Mori on June 17, 2011, 03:23:36 pm
So, where is the fun in playing at impossible hours, with impossible pings? It isn't pretty, that's why in most games Americans plays in their servers while Europeans plays in Eu servers.
All will be happier to not play with 200 ping at 6 am, everybody wins.

200 ping at 6 am and then work in 3 hours, I think splitting strategus would be a great idea if not though, NA can always try to plan battles against EU when they're asleep and vice versa or just never attack one another for fear of having to fight at ungodly hours and with terrible ping.

imo, SPLIT IT.

Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Oberyn on June 17, 2011, 07:38:32 pm
The community is already split.  If the community was together in arms we would be playing in EU servers and having a blast no matter the ping. But were not are we? We have NA servers cause we don't want to play with 200+ ping.
I don't really care about Euros. Most of them aren't even on when I'm awake lol.  If their asleep and I'm awake we can't really have fun playing together. I think the community is just fine. And relating to what Brunch said, I don't think Euros have much of a community as they did before.  I would like the idea of making a poll of how many NA/EU players there are now who are active and how many of them would participate in Strat.

Compare number of servers in EU and the players on them to the NA ones, not exactly rocket science.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Thovex on June 20, 2011, 02:41:56 am
Now I think about it, a split wouldn't be a bad idea.

But it will be bad for some factions. Take fallen as example.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: [ptx] on June 20, 2011, 02:51:26 am
Yes, split them. Playing on NA servers as EU player is shit, totally ruins it. Same goes other way as well, i guess. Also, i imagine NA clans made their alliance in an effort to appear big and not have to fight numerically superior EU clans on their servers, but i don't see how they enjoyed strategus, being at peace all the time. Also, the night time idea is great.

p.s. stop -'ing me, pl0x.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Classical on June 28, 2011, 05:59:43 am
I wouldn't normally endorse a split but considering the cross-server problems, unless it's fixed a split just seems logical. However I'd rather suffer through lag than have a split, or an entire half of the modding community outsourced to some third-party fuckwit who only wants e-Power. A split would only be logical to the community as a whole if it was done by the current official developers, otherwise it would turn into a cluster fuck of biased bullshit and would bog down this mods potential.

Bottom line, a split is only a good idea if the server issues are not fixed (I don't see a logical way to fix them..), and it's only a good idea if it's done by the official developers, outsourcing this would be very, very, bad!.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Sharky on June 28, 2011, 02:35:46 pm
chadz ever posted his thoughts on this? id like to know if its a possibility ;{
Devs told me that all devs and admins supports the idea of splitting but chadz is against it, so it's unlikely we'll see implemented in the near future. Still no harm in expressing our opinions and i hope that with time chadz will realize that NA players can't really play with Eu players.
Yes, split them. Playing on NA servers as EU player is shit, totally ruins it. Same goes other way as well, i guess. Also, i imagine NA clans made their alliance in an effort to appear big and not have to fight numerically superior EU clans on their servers, but i don't see how they enjoyed strategus, being at peace all the time. Also, the night time idea is great.

p.s. stop -'ing me, pl0x.
Yeah i think the big NA alliance is already happening with the northern empire.
I think it would be much more enjoyable for NA players to fight each other instead of do a single big alliance of all NA clans just to be sure they don't get attacked at impossible hours, so getting all the NA forced to have a permanent peace or to play as a secondary force (like a support to one Eu faction in strategus)
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Grimm3r on June 29, 2011, 04:55:36 pm
I hope for a split as well for the sake of good ping and reasonable hours.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Topsnus on July 01, 2011, 12:15:11 am
The problem is that the player base is too small for a strategus split.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tristan on July 01, 2011, 12:32:36 am
The problem is that the player base is too small for a strategus split.

No it is not.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Reinhardt on July 01, 2011, 01:13:06 am
I'm still against it. chadz is going to make strategus take much more effort and time and thought as far as waging war. So, if it's not constant war, why split? Also, wouldn't that further split the community?
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: MountedRhader on July 01, 2011, 01:21:57 am
Something like a new york server where everyone has 100 ping besides a few would be the best option if there is no split.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Reinhardt on July 01, 2011, 02:15:17 am
Something like a new york server where everyone has 100 ping besides a few would be the best option if there is no split.

Well, that would help with the EU playing on NA, but not vise-versa... I say leave it as is.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tristan on July 01, 2011, 02:15:34 am
I believe chadz has a solution for it. we'll see...
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: MountedRhader on July 01, 2011, 03:01:41 am
Well, that would help with the EU playing on NA, but not vise-versa... I say leave it as is.
Sorry. I was thinking of everyone, not just NA if there is no split
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Classical on July 02, 2011, 12:42:39 pm
Create a new data center in the middle of the North Atlantic Ocean.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: SPQR on July 02, 2011, 06:20:22 pm
Having a NA continent would benefit both communities as it would allow more space for smaller clans to have a place in the sun and for everyone to actually interact with their neighbors. As it stands the NA community is pretty much formed into two blocs, LLJK and NE(at opposite sides of the map where they cant even interact), with no real place for smaller clans to thrive. Small NA clans have a tough time getting territory because their options are either to join the big clans, or try and fight EU clans, which is suicide with pings what they are. Even the big clans pretty much end up ignoring any neighbors from the opposite timezone since fighting against them would be absolute misery.

Having a dual continent would allow smaller clans a chance to gain land without having to compete with clans from the opposite continent and also eliminate the current stalemate that having foreign neighbors next to you tends to cause.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Cepeshi on July 03, 2011, 03:45:28 am
I have joined just after strat was shut down, or shortly before, so i could not experience any battles, but at love and war nothing is too rough, right?
I can see the frustration from being attacked at weird times, but as i work on shifts, i have weird playtimes anyways, so this really does not bother me. Splitting community? Bullshit, the guys who play together will keep playing together no matter what...at least i do that, if all my friends from one game are some other country and have better pings, i dont care, i will keep playing with them cause i enjoy the time spent together.

Anyways, the more and more i am reading about Strategus, its gonna be fun! And hopefully the guy who brought me to cRPG will come back to play again aswell! :) YAY :D
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 03, 2011, 03:48:49 am
Splitting community? Bullshit, the guys who play together will keep playing together no matter what...at least i do that, if all my friends from one game are some other country and have better pings, i dont care, i will keep playing with them cause i enjoy the time spent together.

This for me. If NA and EU split, I am going EU despite my 178-220 ping so I can play with my Fallen Brethren.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: PhantomZero on July 03, 2011, 04:14:39 am
This for me. If NA and EU split, I am going EU despite my 178-220 ping so I can play with my Fallen Brethren.

Not like it would stop you from signing up for NA battles.  :D
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: MountedRhader on July 03, 2011, 06:43:30 am
I change my vote. Smaller clans in both NA and EU need some time to shine, like stated above. Perhaps a split would be better.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Beans on July 05, 2011, 02:23:20 am
2 big ass continents would be the best thing I think. For one thing everything can be handled centrally. We have already seen what kind of horrible shit can security wise and having another database and shit to run for NA is a bad idea.

It could allow clans with multiple countries worth of people to still fight in each others battles and could lead to interesting trading deals as well. Clans will be doing a lot of plotting and scheming and with a EU continent smaller clans could have a nice neutral group of people to reach out to for trades on troops/weapons. With 2 full sized continents smaller clans will get their chance to grab some land.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on July 05, 2011, 09:19:42 am
I don´t know where come this idea that if we splitt then small clans will have a better chance? How? Why?

I really don´t care a splitt, and more i see post from na, more i want a splitt, but why ppl are so naive?
Splitt or no splitt, small clan will have to ally or oath to big clan, otherwise they will be destroy to ashes.

I agree that a bigger map could give more space and allow small  clans to grab some fief in the process, but this has nothing to do with a splitt. And at the end it would be the same, or they join a big clan or they die.

This is the inner principle of Strategus, total domination.

A splitt will just give more job to chadz and delay more the release of Strat.

Btw if na community is so big, then na clan will have not to ally in a big group, like old Strat, what they didn´t understand is that eu clan have the same fear to attack na fief...


Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Soldier_of_God on July 05, 2011, 09:29:20 am
I see many great suggestions with no replies, and i certainly hope this doesn't end up that way...

if the dev team is ACTUALLY reading this, please implement this. or, run a vote. see if its worth your time.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Oberyn on July 05, 2011, 02:53:10 pm
afaik a lot of the Dev team is for some variant of the idea, but teh chadz is dead set against it.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Keshian on July 05, 2011, 06:18:08 pm
afaik a lot of the Dev team is for some variant of the idea, but teh chadz is dead set against it.

Thats really sad.  Even just a 2 continent or 1 continent split by sea and only connecting the 2 sides by a  narrow isthmus (think panama) would actually create more dynamism and prevent stagnation through powerblocks where na or eu clans dont border anyone of the same continent so they just sit and do nothing for 4 months (think Northern Empire in last strategus).  Would still allow for pirate raiding expeditions and adventurous clans to attack across the sea but would make all the people on your border be worth invading and not avoiding simply because monstrous ping as the best defense in a siege.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Lorenzo on July 05, 2011, 08:03:24 pm
I really dont see the point... Even if we split the small clans are going to ally and forme bigger clans... the less players you have the quickest it going to come to the point where one faction is overpowered.

I know that getting out of your ts/ventrilo to talk to others clans may seem hard but just try it and get involved in one of the most interresting part of this mod : Diplomatic game.

Make arrangements, treaties, merc contract etc. Even if you are a small clan, it does not mean that you have not you place in a world-wide strategus.

I dont want a split, and the main reason is not because I play in a international team, it's mainly because there is not enough players in NA to have his stand alone strat, even a ''continent'' it would be just boring.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Soldier_of_God on July 05, 2011, 08:26:20 pm
I really dont see the point... Even if we split the small clans are going to ally and forme bigger clans... the less players you have the quickest it going to come to the point where one faction is overpowered.

I know that getting out of your ts/ventrilo to talk to others clans may seem hard but just try it and get involved in one of the most interresting part of this mod : Diplomatic game.

Make arrangements, treaties, merc contract etc. Even if you are a small clan, it does not mean that you have not you place in a world-wide strategus.

I dont want a split, and the main reason is not because I play in a international team, it's mainly because there is not enough players in NA to have his stand alone strat, even a ''continent'' it would be just boring.

The point is Eu+Na = bad ping battles.

now i'm not sure how many na there actually are, but i know that there numbers at least 200+ if 100 of those individuals were in say... 5 clans, over a large map... it could actually be quite fun.

if there were a shift in the balance of power of a clan, others could ally and keep it in check. sort of like it is now with how the alliances are going, at least from my eyes.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Keshian on July 05, 2011, 08:50:34 pm
The point is Eu+Na = bad ping battles.

now i'm not sure how many na there actually are, but i know that there numbers at least 200+ if 100 of those individuals were in say... 5 clans, over a large map... it could actually be quite fun.

if there were a shift in the balance of power of a clan, others could ally and keep it in check. sort of like it is now with how the alliances are going, at least from my eyes.

Yes, before the steam update messedthings up for a lot of people so theyc ouldnt play, evenings would see siege, and 1 battle server completely full, and usually another 2 battle servers partially full.  Thats 250 right there and not everyone plays every night.  A rough estimate is that there are 500 active NA cRPG players, which is more then enough to have a fulfilling strategus match up even if only 2/3rds participate.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Joseph on July 05, 2011, 09:09:11 pm
There is way more NA than Eu would think.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: [ptx] on July 05, 2011, 09:16:17 pm
Whoeps, misread.

Anyway, bumping for attention. chadz, change your mind, you stubborn equine!
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Ecko on July 05, 2011, 09:59:52 pm
If NA and EU split, i'm almost positive the Northern Empire would decide for the NA community's benefit to separate to allow a more diverse game play for all.

Sharky was right, the Northern Empire was created to create an offensive and defensive capability on an EU dominated game. If its NA dominated who knows what would happen. 
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: [ptx] on July 05, 2011, 10:08:13 pm
On another note, Ecko, your personal text looks funny right now  :lol:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Thovex on July 05, 2011, 10:38:40 pm
Fixed that. :wink:

I suppose splitting it into 2 worlds will be the best idea, since then each continent does not have to fight with terrible pings.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Lorenzo on July 06, 2011, 02:18:36 am
Maybe you are right about the numbers, I have no clue how many NA players are out there but I still think that the more players the best it will be.

I have no trouble to play with around 110 ping and having to ajust to the ping is not a good reason for me to be denied to play against all the EU guys.

For the timezone problem, this can be easily managed with alliances imo!
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Kafein on July 06, 2011, 02:33:40 am
Maybe you are right about the numbers, I have no clue how many NA players are out there but I still think that the more players the best it will be.

I have no trouble to play with around 110 ping and having to ajust to the ping is not a good reason for me to be denied to play against all the EU guys.

For the timezone problem, this can be easily managed with alliances imo!

The Fallen Brigade and a few others won't have any problems fighting at weird times alone. But for mono-continental clans it will be a probable nightmare to get trustworthy allies from the other continent. Back in the days of the old Strategus, EU fighting for NA and NA fighting for EU weren't really playing with everything they got. Mostly because the times were still a little weird sometimes (playing at 6:00... sure...) and on top of that people lacked the motivation.


So no, it can't be easily managed with alliances.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: [ptx] on July 06, 2011, 03:30:38 am
Even if it can, what is the point? Getting other clans to fight your wars? Where is the fun in that?
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Sharky on July 06, 2011, 03:47:59 am
Even if it can, what is the point? Getting other clans to fight your wars? Where is the fun in that?
Have to quote that  :P

The Fallen Brigade and a few others won't have any problems fighting at weird times alone. But for mono-continental clans it will be a probable nightmare to get trustworthy allies from the other continent. Back in the days of the old Strategus, EU fighting for NA and NA fighting for EU weren't really playing with everything they got. Mostly because the times were still a little weird sometimes (playing at 6:00... sure...) and on top of that people lacked the motivation.



So no, it can't be easily managed with alliances.
You may had "only" 110 ping, but most of eu playing in NA had a lot more, and i guess south americans and east coast players are even worse.
Also the system were crap because sometimes 120 europeans were forced to play on a Na server just because the guy who was under attack choosed so, but ofc he couldn't bring real northamericans because he was attacked at an impossible hour for Northamericans...
Even the most enthusiastic promoters of the intercontinental mess will agree that this is not fun at all i hope.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Classical on July 06, 2011, 09:34:23 am
Two continents is a pretty good idea actually, one database, no need to out source anything (Who knows, maybe we'll get some officially endorsed NA servers), I guess it would really depend on if the developers want to put the extra mile into doing that, and the majority of the community agrees with the decision.

Otherwise an interesting idea none the less, first to figure out how to craft a boat wins.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: chadz on July 06, 2011, 09:52:55 am
first, i'm not dead set against it.

The reason why I was against it is that
a) strategus is not first and foremost a war simulation, it's a medieval simulation, war only happens sometimes. That's why I claim that pings are not the most important thing. There's still diplomacy and trade.
b) Two worls would be impossible for me to maintain. It's simply not intended to be running on a dpulicated server.

We will probably go for the continent approach or something like that. Either way, it's further down the road and not planned for the next big release because we have other things to do for that :)
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Oberyn on July 06, 2011, 09:55:14 am
D: I have misrepresented the chadz's position. I apologize. I guess rumours on IRC might not always be the best source of info.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Timotheusthereal on July 06, 2011, 09:59:40 am
D: I have misrepresented the chadz's position. I apologize. I guess rumours on IRC might not always be the best source of info.

Its like reading left oriented times
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: ManOfWar on July 07, 2011, 06:56:07 pm
first, i'm not dead set against it.

The reason why I was against it is that
a) strategus is not first and foremost a war simulation, it's a medieval simulation, war only happens sometimes. That's why I claim that pings are not the most important thing. There's still diplomacy and trade.
b) Two worls would be impossible for me to maintain. It's simply not intended to be running on a dpulicated server.

We will probably go for the continent approach or something like that. Either way, it's further down the road and not planned for the next big release because we have other things to do for that :)

Ya chadz! two different continents! Plus maybe ship v shi pwarfare equals a truly awesome thing.

Maybe a tiny island in the middle for the australians :D
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Artyem on July 07, 2011, 10:27:25 pm
Ya chadz! two different continents! Plus maybe ship v shi pwarfare equals a truly awesome thing.

Maybe a tiny island in the middle for the australians :D

If we had sea battles, maybe the server that hosts those battles could be hosted in Australia.

That way everyone suffers  :wink:
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Garem on July 12, 2011, 05:47:27 am
Strategus happens at weird hours, period. Internationalization/Diplomacy is the ONLY way to handle that. Would you rather be forced to be ready to fight at any time, or have an opposing clan from your own timezone manipulate the battles so that you have to fight at stupid times? For crying out loud, a midnight fight for a man in Seattle is at 3am for a guy in Miami. A 10 AM fight by a New Yorker forces a San Franciscan to wake up in time for a 7am fight.

Plus, how will you force clans to fight in their timezone? People always can and always will be able to manipulate time and distance/ping to their advantage. Unless Strategus set fights to occur at set times... but there are just too many fights going on and scheduling would be an absolute nightmare. And as I understand it, there's no chance of getting an Icelandic server so there's no good solution for preventing that, either. Again, internationalization and diplomacy are really your only options. And for whatever fucking reason, NA clans seem to be violently opposed to working with those filthy Europeans (sic). Really, I hear a lot of shit about Europeans on the NA servers. No idea why; they do the majority of the groundwork in making this game fun, running tournaments and events to keep things fresh. I digress.

A two-continent idea is fine, I'm all for shaking things up with geography (although separated by water? that sounds silly- make passage between them possible!) and I can't conceive of any downsides. Just don't expect it to solve the problems being highlighted.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 12, 2011, 06:41:02 am
And for whatever fucking reason, NA clans seem to be violently opposed to working with those filthy Europeans (sic). Really, I hear a lot of shit about Europeans on the NA servers.

Same reason why a lot of EU players talk crap about NA. The average individual has never lived outside of his or her country, and dare I say that opens one's mind.

Bias and stereotypes are bound to happen, both in malicious ways, good fun, and not even knowing it. My parents still stereotype Russia like it is still the 80s...
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: PhantomZero on July 12, 2011, 06:41:49 am
Plus, how will you force clans to fight in their timezone? People always can and always will be able to manipulate time and distance/ping to their advantage. Unless Strategus set fights to occur at set times... but there are just too many fights going on and scheduling would be an absolute nightmare. And as I understand it, there's no chance of getting an Icelandic server so there's no good solution for preventing that, either. Again, internationalization and diplomacy are really your only options. And for whatever fucking reason, NA clans seem to be violently opposed to working with those filthy Europeans (sic). Really, I hear a lot of shit about Europeans on the NA servers. No idea why; they do the majority of the groundwork in making this game fun, running tournaments and events to keep things fresh. I digress.

A two-continent idea is fine, I'm all for shaking things up with geography (although separated by water? that sounds silly- make passage between them possible!) and I can't conceive of any downsides. Just don't expect it to solve the problems being highlighted.

The EU clans don't run any tournaments for NA clans, so I don't know why you would bring up doing any groundwork in making the game fun. A lot of NA clans worked with EU clans in order to cover all the hours and fight on each other's "home turf" when appropriate. You should know this because you are in Fallen. I'm not aware of any NA clans being "violently opposed" to working with EU clans. Any shit talking you hear about Europeans on the NA servers is probably just nationalism and ribbing at you because you mentioned you were from some other place. We do the same thing to Canadians.
 
Separation by water would still allow clans to interact if they had access to a port-city, and any serious invasion would be possible, but only under the unification of all nations on one continent.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Matey on July 12, 2011, 07:42:14 am
i have nothing against the EU players... and thats why i want a split. I want to fight the NA players that bug me without having to worry about the EU clans wiping us all out while we are in-fighting. :D
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Soldier_of_God on July 12, 2011, 05:36:53 pm
The Knights of the Black Rose is a split-off of na players from The Risen, and still maintains relations. we have many diplomatic interests from around the world... i founded this clan.

that being said the idea of fighting any EU is not appealing because of ping. i get 240+ ping on european servers, personally. i would do it, but, if we didn't have to fight EU potentially, that would make things a lot more strait forward with politics, and strategus.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Garem on July 13, 2011, 05:08:02 pm
The EU clans don't run any tournaments for NA clans, so I don't know why you would bring up doing any groundwork in making the game fun. A lot of NA clans worked with EU clans in order to cover all the hours and fight on each other's "home turf" when appropriate. You should know this because you are in Fallen. I'm not aware of any NA clans being "violently opposed" to working with EU clans. Any shit talking you hear about Europeans on the NA servers is probably just nationalism and ribbing at you because you mentioned you were from some other place. We do the same thing to Canadians.
 
Separation by water would still allow clans to interact if they had access to a port-city, and any serious invasion would be possible, but only under the unification of all nations on one continent.

cRPG events are run almost exclusively by EU folks, and at times that NA players can definitely make. I've participated in about 8+ scrimmage matches, three 150 player battles, 1 Fallen tournament, several multi-clan training sessions, and organized FRAPS/video shootings since the beginning of the year despite my living in CST (no clue what info led you to deduce that I was not American; in fact, my post itself implied that I was an NA player, not to mention that you've skewered me countless times before in cRPG).

So no, I absolutely stand by my assertions because my experience speaks for itself. Evening events in Europe are afternoon events for North America. Plus, there hasn't been any argument with the REAL point of my post- you have to have diverse players and timezones regardless of fighting people in your hemisphere or in another. That's the nature of Strategus and it won't change because of a split, therefore, none of the issues being raised are going to be fixed by a split. Suggest another solution that works (set or negotiable times for battles, for example) or just DEAL with it by finding an ally across the pond. As you say, I should know- and I do. It works, it makes things more fun. So you're agreeing with me? Your point is muddled, PZ. You seemingly promote internationalization on one hand, and then argue for dumbing down Strategus with an ineffectual solution in the other. Why?

Plus, port cities are fucking stupid because it takes the dev team 7 months just to hit to Power On switch for Strategus with virtually nothing being changed. I'm teasing, of course, but there's still a take-away point here. Keep it simple. Geography changes are easy and do the same damn thing as this peculiar "port" idea that seems to persist despite very obvious reasons for being unfavorable.

Soldier_of_God. You state that you have Risen as EU allies. Then say that you didn't want to have to fight EU pings... that's a self-contradiction. You don't, hence your alliance with Risen. That's what you're supposed to do, what makes Strategus interesting and complex.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: [ptx] on July 13, 2011, 05:20:10 pm
As far as i understand, the idea of 2 continents is that you can still fight on other continents battles, if you so badly want to, but you are NOT forced to do so, if you wish to actually do something in strategus, like, attack a neighboring faction.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 13, 2011, 05:25:29 pm
I am against two separate continents simply because of massive powerblocks like the Northern Empire. I know that EU has their own powerblock from old strat but it makes up a smaller percentage then the NA version...

And again, what about clans that are big for both EU and NA? I don't want the Fallen split.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: [ptx] on July 13, 2011, 05:28:47 pm
Tod, Northern Empire said that they would split up, if there was a separate strategus or at least a continent for them. AFAIK, they only exist cuz of the shared strat.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 13, 2011, 05:29:55 pm
Tod, Northern Empire said that they would split up, if there was a separate strategus or at least a continent for them. AFAIK, they only exist cuz of the shared strat.

ptx, I don't believe them to be perfectly blunt.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Soldier_of_God on July 15, 2011, 08:19:00 am
first, i'm not dead set against it.

The reason why I was against it is that
a) strategus is not first and foremost a war simulation, it's a medieval simulation, war only happens sometimes. That's why I claim that pings are not the most important thing. There's still diplomacy and trade.
b) Two worls would be impossible for me to maintain. It's simply not intended to be running on a dpulicated server.

We will probably go for the continent approach or something like that. Either way, it's further down the road and not planned for the next big release because we have other things to do for that :)

Im curious, why would it be impossible to maintain?

If having a Dup server is the problem, why not just make a strat map with two sections, one NA one EU that runs on the same server? surely it would not be too hard to force all eu's or na's to spawn and stay on one continent?
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Blondin on July 15, 2011, 04:24:36 pm
Im curious, why would it be impossible to maintain?

If having a Dup server is the problem, why not just make a strat map with two sections, one NA one EU that runs on the same server? surely it would not be too hard to force all eu's or na's to spawn and stay on one continent?

Seriously it's may be not hard, but it needs a lot of work (create and code the map, code the spawn, code water...) it's pretty useless, there is more important things to do, first release the new Strategus, after that we can talk of splitt the community.

I don't know why NA clans are so much affraid of EU...?

Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Keshian on July 15, 2011, 04:32:21 pm
ptx, I don't believe them to be perfectly blunt.

Honestly, I expect them to split up on their own now that ATS can't buy the other clans with land they had from before under their brave strategy of complete neutrality during the entire last strategus.

But on the main point, you literally could duplicate the map of Calradia, attach it to the western ocean and have 2 continents.  Having every map have 1 copy somewhere else is not a big deal and you could proabbly do this in one night and be set.  Its funny already you have to give more deference to small EU clans than large NA clans and vice versa if you are from EU, because fighting with 200 ping is extremely costly in troops and equipment.

You can always refine it down the road.  I have to tell you its already getting insanely crowded on this small map.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on July 16, 2011, 11:28:40 am
this is a good idea, there is no point in having fight at 5 am
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 16, 2011, 05:17:21 pm
this is a good idea, there is no point in having fight at 5 am

Sure there is, it represents night-time attacks! :lol:
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Nindur on July 17, 2011, 05:45:54 pm
ATS has servers they could help with :)


Unless you have someone who you think is better at giving free things away :D
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: PhantomZero on July 17, 2011, 06:35:11 pm
Words

It isn't so much about timezones for me, its more about which servers get played on. There would be one continent where battles are always on NA servers, and the other always on EU servers. If you wanted to cover timezones you would see need EU clans, but they would suffer because of ping. EU clans will never be offensive against NA clans and vicesa versa, simply because the defender gets to choose which sever to play on. Leading to huge power blocs and stalemates.

And well fuck port cities then, you can simply walk across the water now as it is. It would look a little weird if armies met and fought on the ocean, but manageable. Water isnt a barrier at the moment, neither are mountains.
Title: Re: Split NA players from EU players.
Post by: Digglez on July 18, 2011, 01:23:35 am
I try to lobby chadz, as it is absolutly no fun playing on foreign servers. And I think anyone who (really) played strategus knows, a war between a big EU and NA faction is unlikely to happen because it's just frustrating, making 1/3 of the current map "unused".
People that are concerned that the community will be split, well, it already is, I know nearly nothing about the NA playerbase, and you can't tell me you participate much on the other side of the pond (tournaments for example, clan battles and such).

My current idea would be:
2 calradias, players can chose on which they spawn, and freely travel between them with ships.
EU continent forces EU server and has EU-nighttime(no battles, less speed on the map), NA continent the NA server and NA-nighttime. If you are a masochistic one, you are free to play on the other continent, but you won't be able to force your server on them.

If you have a mixed clan, you either take coastal regions on both continents, or a part of your playerbase has to suck it up and always play on foreign server. Not that different from the current situation, if you currently have 50% NA and 50% EU players, 50% of your players always fight on the wrong server anyways.

Pirates of the Burning Sea (kind of like Eve lite) has 2 servers, an NA and EU and they restrict their port battles to primetime in those timezones.  It really does promote good fights and no cheap ninja'ing when people are asleep.