Stay classy LL. I tell you I'm stuck at work and that one of your guys dumped in some shit gear which would lead to equipment bugs and asked you to delay an attack... What do you do instead? attack minutes after the battle and set it to raid trying to steal all the gear I won't have time to remove or sort. Stay fuckin classy. You deserve every item you get out the raid.
Matey I honestly feel bad for you since you were at work. But I also don't blame LL for using this to their advantage since FCC does whenever possable.
About the transfer, how many other people were in the feif? Are there any "randoms" who could have said I'm never going to play strat again, I'll give these guys my stuff to be nice.
Stay classy LL. I tell you I'm stuck at work and that one of your guys dumped in some shit gear which would lead to equipment bugs and asked you to delay an attack... What do you do instead? attack minutes after the battle and set it to raid trying to steal all the gear I won't have time to remove or sort. Stay fuckin classy. You deserve every item you get out the raid.
Stay classy LL. I tell you I'm stuck at work and that one of your guys dumped in some shit gear which would lead to equipment bugs and asked you to delay an attack... What do you do instead? attack minutes after the battle and set it to raid trying to steal all the gear I won't have time to remove or sort. Stay fuckin classy. You deserve every item you get out the raid.Think of all the guys who have told you they're stuck in EU... I don't see you waiting...
I believe you accusing me is just a put off because you couldn't be there when the battle ended.Re attacking the instant a wave finishes is the proper way to siege a fief under the current rules.Im not here to be friendly im here to take your city or inflict as much damage as possible.I pulled all gear out of the fief after yesterdays battle to ensure that there would be a really well done gear list for the next battle since I would be at work; that way the fief could survive 2 fights without bugged gear (hopefully); but lo and behold, a bunch of random shit gear showed up in my fief after the battle was already initiated and what do you know? you had a new army with 0 extra crates. I can't prove who did it, but seeing as it all looked like leftover gear from the last fight it seemed pretty likely that it was you sage, prolly dumping your extra shit on me and then getting your new army with no extra crates that way you didnt have to sort your inventory or anything.
Lol I deserve every item I get?That makes me believe that I will get nothing and somehow you managed to get all the gear out even though I pressed attack the second the battle ended.
Think of all the guys who have told you they're stuck in EU... I don't see you waiting...
If you had 0 troops on you are lucky they raided...
If you had 0 troops on you are lucky they raided...
Matey I honestly feel bad for you since you were at work. But I also don't blame LL for using this to their advantage since FCC does whenever possable.
The only time we did a proper item bomb was during strat 2. We did a lot of "beta testing" in those days. I'd say we've been acting well within the rules this year.
If you simply mean attacking our enemy when they're obviously in a weakened state, then yeah we've done that. However, we also will negotiate battle times with our enemies when they come to us. It's rare that you lot try to be civil, but it happens.
Which battle was that? How long ago? What did you want exactly?
Without knowing the specifics, I'm still not surprised. You Frisians want us to HATE you. You try very hard at it. Not all of our enemies are so zealous.
Sorry but it was the sieges of almerrad about 6 months ago.
edit: I don't really want to make you guys hate us. I just tend to try to prove people wrong whenever possible and most of the FCC's who post are the type who refuse to be wrong. (not a fun combo)
Sounds like you are talking into a mirror.
makes me laugh.. we get accused and vilified for things we do not actually do.... People actually do them against us and people shrug. Very confusing
but the way you "cobble" weak armies that aren't real armies might be like that.(Justification: why waste our real gear on a first wave battle? BTW this is Fine, but just saying)
I have had Kesh, in the Ahmerrad Sieges back in the day, talk about the amount of extra shit they brought just for bombing the fief.
Annnnnd no, I did not. I did mention using up our leftover gear from the previous battles in the area in the first wave with our non-loomed gear, +1-+2 gear in the second wave and saving the +3 gear in the third and 4th waves. We do the same thing with every siege, absentee fief owner or not - just like when we took ichamur and the chaos castles, because you dont want to give defenders scads of +1 gear they can reuse for the follow up attacks and make it easier to defend (what lost legion doesn't realize is they fully equipped ichamur for whenever hospitallers attack it, even more so with the tax money from selling goods there - we probably would have had some issues with replacing high end gear otherwise). That has nothing to do with item bombing - everything to do with defender's advantage with the looting system and why we apply to all attacks regardless of whether the gear is taken out or not.
We have never transferred gear into a fief after we attacked it to make it item bugged (specifically against the rules (http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/strategus-rules/ (http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/strategus-rules/) 5) Itembombing a fief. Dropping a lot of items in an enemy fief is not allowed. It causes incredibly long equipment lists for the fief.
Now it looks like lost legion has done that, but since you love to hate us you write it off, while accusing us still of doing the same, when we never have and never tried to. Every siege of ahmerrad we had less than 100 item types. In fact I think every siege we have ever done has had less than 100 item types (we have done a lot - Derchios, Ahmerrad, Ichamur, Dhirim, Senuzgda, Kelredan, Ismirala castle, Curaw, Reyvadin, Sungetche castle, probably a couple more i forgot). Yes, I really like teleporting fief owners who don't know to transfer a fief to a faction member before leaving it, and that is part of the game - you lock in the gold and the gear and save yourself 2/3rds of what it would have cost you to take the castle/city (an enormously expensive thing to do for the many people here posting who have never taken a castle or city themselves) because you recover most of your gear used in a +1 state ready to be used in future battles instead of having to buy new fully equipped set of gear.
Anyway I sent pm to Harald, cmp, and meow about the matter - they are taking care of it and looking into who did the transfer.
if I understand correctly, another faction was able to transfer gear into your fief without the fief allowing transfers?
as he stated. We attack with lesser used gear (from other attacks... still the same stuff we use just +1 variety that has seen one fight) in the first wave or two. It is just good business and not malicious.
It is not against the rules and if they were doing this to us I would not complain at all.
HUGE difference is tossing random shit in the fief prior to attacking it and attacking with +1 gear you already used once.
Correction: YOU DID do it. Maybe not now, but the way you "cobble" weak armies that aren't real armies might be like that.(Justification: why waste our real gear on a first wave battle? BTW this is Fine, but just saying)Annnnnd no, I did not. I did mention using up our leftover gear from the previous battles in the area in the first wave with our non-loomed gear, +1-+2 gear in the second wave and saving the +3 gear in the third and 4th waves.
I have had Kesh, in the Ahmerrad Sieges back in the day, talk about the amount of extra shit they brought just for bombing the fief. Course, I don't care one way or another cause I got paid, but it has happened(as a after battle loot way).
We do the same thing with every siege, absentee fief owner or not - just like when we took ichamur and the chaos castles, because you dont want to give defenders scads of +1 gear they can reuse for the follow up attacks and make it easier to defend (what lost legion doesn't realize is they fully equipped ichamur for whenever hospitallers attack it, even more so with the tax money from selling goods there - we probably would have had some issues with replacing high end gear otherwise). That has nothing to do with item bombing - everything to do with defender's advantage with the looting system and why we apply to all attacks regardless of whether the gear is taken out or not.
...
Yes, I really like teleporting fief owners who don't know to transfer a fief to a faction member before leaving it, and that is part of the game - you lock in the gold and the gear and save yourself 2/3rds of what it would have cost you to take the castle/city (an enormously expensive thing to do for the many people here posting who have never taken a castle or city themselves) because you recover most of your gear used in a +1 state ready to be used in future battles instead of having to buy new fully equipped set of gear.
We have never transferred gear into a fief after we attacked it to make it item bugged (specifically against the rules (http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/strategus-rules/ (http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/strategus-rules/) 5) Itembombing a fief. Dropping a lot of items in an enemy fief is not allowed. It causes incredibly long equipment lists for the fief.
Now it looks like lost legion has done that, but since you love to hate us you write it off, while accusing us still of doing the same, when we never have and never tried to. Every siege of ahmerrad we had less than 100 item types. In fact I think every siege we have ever done has had less than 100 item types (we have done a lot - Derchios, Ahmerrad, Ichamur, Dhirim, Senuzgda, Kelredan, Ismirala castle, Curaw, Reyvadin, Sungetche castle, probably a couple more i forgot).
Anyway I sent pm to Harald, cmp, and meow about the matter - they are taking care of it and looking into who did the transfer.
Not malicious? The way you add more items than you would otherwise to your army and time your attacks so that people don't have time to pull gear out makes this strategy incredibly detrimental to quality gameplay; it is not a good use of game mechanics, it is cruelty to your opponent.
Things like multiple kinds of zero-slot weapons, three tiers of the same weapon, dozens or more of armors (head and body) were used against Ahmerrad when it was already having problems with the item bug. There is indeed a huge difference between defenders getting many crummy items that aren't very good that are difficult to get rid of in-game and defenders getting a handful of decent item types in very small stacks. (*not that it justifies an intentional item-bomb, though)
4th wave was full of varying levels of gear, you are a liar. Screenshots available if needed.
Your problem is that you feel as though losing gear to the intended game system entitles you to get it back. It's a bad attitude that makes for horrible gameplay when you do what you can to take advantage of bad mechanics such as attack timing, the transfer system and item-slot limits that don't allow defense to have a well-sorted gear list.
Saying defense is easier and that they don't deserve anymore advantages doesn't justify attackers using incredibly cheap tactics - and you can bet you'll hear flak for it (which you're also bound to complain about).
You complained about getting 17 new item types in a fief, a handful of which are ideal for siege defense and as a faction you are literally the reason the item-bombing rule even exists and you guys wonder why people think you're the bad guy? On top of, apparently, denying ever having item-bombed (maybe you just mean before it was a rule and left that qualifier out? Incredibly shady concealment of facts. SPEAKING OF WHICH: Sure, 99 is "less than 100 item types", but you've attacked with exactly that amount before)
Basically, I can't understand how you guys are so surprised to hear shit about it when you bring this issue up.
As an afterthought; if it isn't against the rules, and doesn't fall into a category of extremely obvious and blatant game/engine exploit, you shouldn't be rude to people about it. Paying good mercs to fight on your side is part of the game; why are people upset about it? Why would you call it pathetic when the currency in question is GOLD IN A VIDEO GAME? Shit, I might do the same thing. Why do I need more looms or upkeep money? I've got more than enough and I've played for less time than plenty of people. You do what you gotta do. Sure, the argument "BUT YOU ARENT EVEN HAVING FUN" or "YOU CARE MORE ABOUT WINNING THAN HAVING FUN" is going to get thrown at me a few times. But comon, a large part of having fun in multiplayer games that are even somewhat competitive in nature is winning! Yeah, you can have fun while losing, and you should. Still, it is almost always more fun to win than lose; the only thing more satisfying in this game than winning a large strat battle in which neither side had an obvious advantage is doing the same thing while joking, talking shit, committing general acts of shenanigans in teamspeak with your fellow internet knights.
I don't appreciate the supposedly neutral NA head admin insulting me and my faction and calling me a liar.
Matey get the strat scripts you damn pirate scrub :lol:
the fuck you talkin bout hippy? the one that organizes mah gear nicely? i has that one.
You complained about getting 17 new item types in a fief, a handful of which are ideal for siege defense and as a faction you are literally the reason the item-bombing rule even exists and you guys wonder why people think you're the bad guy? On top of, apparently, denying ever having item-bombed (maybe you just mean before it was a rule and left that qualifier out? Incredibly shady concealment of facts. SPEAKING OF WHICH: Sure, 99 is "less than 100 item types", but you've attacked with exactly that amount before)
Basically, I can't understand how you guys are so surprised to hear shit about it when you bring this issue up.
if someone broke the rules it should be addressed... The item-bombing rule is unfortunately extremely vague and hard to enforce (normal admins don't even have access to relevant information needed): what constitutes "a lot" of items? How do you determine the culprit's intent to grief in this fashion, even it it was your enemy who did it? (while it seems very unlikely, a mistake is still a possibility)
FCC refuses to own up to their purposeful attempts at glitching out the items in feifs
canary is not allowed to post his opinion.
It's pretty clear what really needs to be done: fiefs under siege should not be able to be transferred to by non-faction members (and then only within the regular window of time). The ability to do it at all removed = problem removed.
I do think this is a pretty important thing to highlight. Canary is our "neutral" head NA admin and since he is the head NA admin his words automatically carry some weight, especially with newer people. I find it pretty offensive that he spends so much of his time on the forums slandering people who oppose him in strat instead of being a more passive and unbiased observer who intervenes when necessary. Most admins have the sense to keep their biases private and I wish the rest would do so as well.
Man, canary i didn't realize how much vehement hatred you had for us until you accused me of lying and made up some bullshit and gave us some pretentious flak - you are nowhere near the unbiased head admin we need in NA for addressing problems like this, its why i sent the pms to eu and not you.
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FCC 101st typing keyboardists, UNITE!
Seriously, FCC is the most gamey faction out there, why the fuck wouldn't LL attack as soon as the battle is over?
I personally wish more factions were able to be "civil" about their wars (it's a game after all and why not try to have some fun while we play). It would be nice if factions gave the defending fief owner a couple minutes after a battle to get the gear out and be in a position to defend properly. It would also be nice if the defenders coordinated to reduce the numbers of troops in their fief so that the attackers didn't have to attack with more than 1500-1800 troops.
But FCC set the precedent to be as gamey as possible to win at any cost, so why would anyone treat you differently?
so that my gear list would bug out...
Now now sir, you your self said it was insufficient to cause the gear bug.
It's too late to take the fingers back but it seems like everyone's panties are in the proverbial twist and we really have no evidence to say who did what to whom.
So why don't we all just settle petal and get back to the murder.
damn this is bad. cant everyone just kiss and make up? greatsage item bombed and nothing has been done about it. there, are we done now?
Also, playing smart is not cheating; like it or not, FCC is one of the most honourable factions in strat.
I would like rules to be updated to better reflect how things actually are in strat. Maybe add a rule that states "You may freely break all of the previously stated rules so long as you are only fucking over FCC with your rule breaking."
I think most of us are getting a bit tired of people calling us cheaters because they don't like us and even more tired of people actually cheating to gain advantage on us and generally getting away with it every fucking time while crying about how evil FCC is as an excuse for actually cheating at the game. Just because our enemies are delusional and can't handle that we got where we are by playing smart doesn't mean it is ok to use cheats against us. Also, playing smart is not cheating; like it or not, FCC is one of the most honourable factions in strat.
Presently, there is no proof as to who put the items into the fief. There is also, therefore, no proof of intentional or incidental rulebreaking. The fact that the people who can see it haven't looked into it yet(presumably) is indeed a problem...
...however, to act as though you're the only ones falling prey to the broken game systems (that allow players to cheat or otherwise take advantage of unintended mechanics) doesn't help assuage the feelings of players who post unfavorable things about you. You're not the only ones having problems, you're simply the most outspoken; being the most outspoken gives you the most responses, and because in the game you have as a faction drawn the ire of a large amount of players they are bound to lean towards the ill response.
Being "honorable" is relative. Not everyone feels the same way you do about your faction. Furthermore, to place blame on someone before having the facts about the matter is the opposite of honorable, as far as I'm concerned, and it's what you've been doing this entire thread.
FCC is one of the most honourable factions in strat.
Of course they don't feel the same way. Everyone interprets things as they like. But just cause people don't like us doesn't make any of their beliefs about us even remotely true. You can call me dishonourable for making a thread reporting someone throwing junk into my fief when it was under siege but I actually would like people to follow the rules in strat. You can call me dishonourable because during the course of this thread the identity of the person who dumped things became fairly obvious (if still unproven). But seeing as you yourself have demonstrated your willingness to break written agreements and backstab friends for minor strat gains you may forgive me if I don't take your lectures about honour very seriously. I realize that venting my frustration won't change anyone's mind and that I would be better off just keeping my mouth shut while people continue to call us cheaters in order to justify people cheating against us, but I get sick of false accusations. Many of us in the FCC have done our best to play fairly and honourably, to stick to our word and to work with others and it gets really fucking tired having people labelling us as the bad guys while others who openly cheat are considered the good guys. I'm also not just referring to the topic of this thread but a culmination of various other incidents and so on. I get that we have the most enemies and so we will get the most shit talked about us; I just wish they would at least refrain from making up bullshit accusations about cheating.In particular:
I'm sure everyone agrees that item-bombing is an issue in strat. However, when you only bring to the table occurrences that affected your own faction, you're going to seem like the people who complain for their own gain. Bring multiple examples, and a proper discussion so people can talk about the issue at large instead of clawing at each others necks.
I reported an incident of item bombing. We already know that item bombing is against the rules, those discussion happened a long time ago. Would I be better to not report this instance of cheating until I can report multiple other incidents at the same time at which point this one would be out of date?Even if rules have been put in place to deal with past occurrences doesn't mean the past occurrences couldn't have been stopped before hand either. The point is to show the commonalities between the cases and prove that it's a re-occurring issue. You're better off making it seem like a general case of an issue instead of pointing fingers and only getting angry when it happens to you. If it happens, report it, add it to the list.
I reported an incident of item bombing. We already know that item bombing is against the rules, those discussion happened a long time ago. Would I be better to not report this instance of cheating until I can report multiple other incidents at the same time at which point this one would be out of date?
Even if rules have been put in place to deal with past occurrences doesn't mean the past occurrences couldn't have been stopped before hand either. The point is to show the commonalities between the cases and prove that it's a re-occurring issue. You're better off making it seem like a general case of an issue instead of pointing fingers and only getting angry when it happens to you. If it happens, report it, add it to the list.
Well it is pretty hard for me to report incidents that don't happen to me. If someone ever item bombs you Kreczor and you don't want to report it yourself for fear of appearing biased then you let me know all the details and I'll report it for you. That sound fair? I can't report instances of item bombing that I don't know about, and if it didn't happen to me then the only way for me to know about it is if someone else has already reported it or contacted me about it before it has been reported (which has never happened). I'm really not just reporting anything that negatively affects me... I'm just reporting any incidents I know of as they occur and that pretty much means I can only report the stuff that has happened to me.By that statement you are acknowledging that this has never happened before in the history of c-rpg to your knowledge. Stop being a child.
By that statement you are acknowledging that this has never happened before in the history of c-rpg to your knowledge. Stop being a child.
no he is saying by virtue of being FCC when people cheat against us we should look the other way because we deserve it.imapenis
They made a rule against it because it was happening. It is very rare that it happens now and I don't see how wanting to prevent it from happening again is a bad thing. Are you saying that we should all just shut up and wait until it has been done over and over and over again until we try to do something about it?
Even if rules have been put in place to deal with past occurrences doesn't mean the past occurrences couldn't have been stopped before hand either. The point is to show the commonalities between the cases and prove that it's a re-occurring issue. You're better off making it seem like a general case of an issue instead of pointing fingers and only getting angry when it happens to you. If it happens, report it, add it to the list.Now we're going in a circle here buddy.
think you both are missing his point.. People openly cheat against us...
...and in their defense generally like to say it is because we cheat. Those cheaters are then labeled the good guys which is ironic.
Discuss
I don't think many people seriously consider, for example, Smoothrich a "good guy"To be fair he did ban Kesh, that's pretty good guy in my book.
To be fair he did ban Kesh, that's pretty good guy in my book.
For all we know fcc potentially transfered the gear into the fief to frame poor whateverhisnameis, and while that is really unlikely you still can't be crying about Canary not outright banning everyone in LL or whatever, with no proof, or being biased when he hasn't done anything particularly biased besides give me warnings in the diplomacy section :cry:
Let Joe handle your diplomacy/decisions
Apparently not so openly, in this case...
I don't think many people seriously consider, for example, Smoothrich a "good guy", and the total number of people who have conclusively cheated is extremely small. (maybe it's easier to root for the rulebreakers when they're faceless and unnamed?)