Transfering garbage to a fief under siege

[BaleOhay]

think you both are missing his point.. People openly cheat against us.. and in their defense generally like to say it is because we cheat. Those cheaters are then labeled the good guys which is ironic.

End Matey's point.

Discuss

[Matey]

I'm sure everyone agrees that item-bombing is an issue in strat. However, when you only bring to the table occurrences that affected your own faction, you're going to seem like the people who complain for their own gain. Bring multiple examples, and a proper discussion so people can talk about the issue at large instead of clawing at each others necks.

I reported an incident of item bombing. We already know that item bombing is against the rules, those discussion happened a long time ago. Would I be better to not report this instance of cheating until I can report multiple other incidents at the same time at which point this one would be out of date?

[Kreczor]

I reported an incident of item bombing. We already know that item bombing is against the rules, those discussion happened a long time ago. Would I be better to not report this instance of cheating until I can report multiple other incidents at the same time at which point this one would be out of date?

Even if rules have been put in place to deal with past occurrences doesn't mean the past occurrences couldn't have been stopped before hand either. The point is to show the commonalities between the cases and prove that it's a re-occurring issue.  You're better off making it seem like a general case of an issue instead of pointing fingers and only getting angry when it happens to you. If it happens, report it, add it to the list.

[Malaclypse]

I reported an incident of item bombing. We already know that item bombing is against the rules, those discussion happened a long time ago. Would I be better to not report this instance of cheating until I can report multiple other incidents at the same time at which point this one would be out of date?

You reported a suspected incident of item bombing (which would be depositing items into a fief with the intention of exploiting the gear system), which is a good thing to do, but until there is a post by someone who can verify that information (by whom was this stuff transferred) that's all the further this appears to be able to go.

I don't know who was in the fief at the time, so, you know, I can only hazard guesses as to what happened. One is that the attacker, or someone working for them, put things into the fief with or without the intent of griefing; there's a precedent to this, and the timing makes it the most readily seized hypothesis. Another is that someone (either attack affiliated or otherwise uninvoled) accidentally transferred things to the wrong person. Another is that some hapless person thought maybe they were selling items to the fief, or intentionally put them in there for an unknown reason. Another yet is that someone not affiliated with the attackers saw an opportunity to grief and took hold of it. The point is, I think, made here (and was made in the first paragraph- I'm fairly stoned and enjoy stringing words together in this state mostly for my own amusement): someone who can actually sift through logs of strategus transfers times (under my somewhat informed assumption that such a thing exists) will have to weigh in on this and, if needed, take action either publicly here or elsewhere or privately.

[Matey]

Even if rules have been put in place to deal with past occurrences doesn't mean the past occurrences couldn't have been stopped before hand either. The point is to show the commonalities between the cases and prove that it's a re-occurring issue.  You're better off making it seem like a general case of an issue instead of pointing fingers and only getting angry when it happens to you. If it happens, report it, add it to the list.

Well it is pretty hard for me to report incidents that don't happen to me. If someone ever item bombs you Kreczor and you don't want to report it yourself for fear of appearing biased then you let me know all the details and I'll report it for you. That sound fair? I can't report instances of item bombing that I don't know about, and if it didn't happen to me then the only way for me to know about it is if someone else has already reported it or contacted me about it before it has been reported (which has never happened). I'm really not just reporting anything that negatively affects me... I'm just reporting any incidents I know of as they occur and that pretty much means I can only report the stuff that has happened to me.

[Kreczor]

Well it is pretty hard for me to report incidents that don't happen to me. If someone ever item bombs you Kreczor and you don't want to report it yourself for fear of appearing biased then you let me know all the details and I'll report it for you. That sound fair? I can't report instances of item bombing that I don't know about, and if it didn't happen to me then the only way for me to know about it is if someone else has already reported it or contacted me about it before it has been reported (which has never happened). I'm really not just reporting anything that negatively affects me... I'm just reporting any incidents I know of as they occur and that pretty much means I can only report the stuff that has happened to me.

By that statement you are acknowledging that this has never happened before in the history of c-rpg to your knowledge. Stop being a child.

[Matey]

By that statement you are acknowledging that this has never happened before in the history of c-rpg to your knowledge. Stop being a child.

They made a rule against it because it was happening. It is very rare that it happens now and I don't see how wanting to prevent it from happening again is a bad thing. Are you saying that we should all just shut up and wait until it has been done over and over and over again until we try to do something about it?

[BaleOhay]

no he is saying by virtue of being FCC when people cheat against us we should look the other way because we deserve it.

[Kreczor]

no he is saying by virtue of being FCC when people cheat against us we should look the other way because we deserve it.

imapenis

They made a rule against it because it was happening. It is very rare that it happens now and I don't see how wanting to prevent it from happening again is a bad thing. Are you saying that we should all just shut up and wait until it has been done over and over and over again until we try to do something about it?

Even if rules have been put in place to deal with past occurrences doesn't mean the past occurrences couldn't have been stopped before hand either. The point is to show the commonalities between the cases and prove that it's a re-occurring issue.  You're better off making it seem like a general case of an issue instead of pointing fingers and only getting angry when it happens to you. If it happens, report it, add it to the list.

Now we're going in a circle here buddy.

[Canary]

think you both are missing his point.. People openly cheat against us...

Apparently not so openly, in this case...

...and in their defense generally like to say it is because we cheat. Those cheaters are then labeled the good guys which is ironic.

I don't think many people seriously consider, for example, Smoothrich a "good guy", and the total number of people who have conclusively cheated is extremely small. (maybe it's easier to root for the rulebreakers when they're faceless and unnamed?)

The attitude that everyone who is against you (which is admittedly a large group, especially if you go by the forum presence) is either cheating or agrees with situations where people are cheating is a grave exaggeration. To be against you, your tactics or your way of business is not to condone breaking the rules, but it seems like you're trying to make the argument more black and white than it really is.

Breaking the rules is not justifiable, and saying someone deserves something bad happening to them is not the same as advocating cheaters.

There is also the mindset that certain uses of game mechanics, which may not currently be against the rules, are just as bad for the game as some of the ways you can break the rules. As a past example of this, there was no rule against item-bombing until one time when it happened. One might say exploring the limits of the game engine to determine what works and what doesn't because the game is perpetually beta is a noble endeavor and that's all well and good, but when it is evident that the devs aren't paying as close of attention as they once were, it comes to using the limits of the game for gain and power at someone else's expense and does not end up improving the game.

Discuss

Well, yeah. Diplomacy 2.0 is go. (this board needs some of its own rules, it would seem)

[BaleOhay]

I agree with some of that canary... But I would also point out yes we  go to the edge all the time and are a very inventive people... FCC did the first item bomb... before there such thing as the item bomb. They changed the rules and added the transfer button. We have never done it again.

Attacking a fief over and over without a lord (or quickly with one) is neither against the rules or something exclusive to fcc, I would even be willing to guess we are not the first to do it or the last. Pretty sure we are the only ones who get called out on it.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I don't think many people seriously consider, for example, Smoothrich a "good guy"

To be fair he did ban Kesh, that's pretty good guy in my book.
For all we know fcc potentially transfered the gear into the fief to frame poor whateverhisnameis, and while that is really unlikely you still can't be crying about Canary not outright banning everyone in LL or whatever, with no proof, or being biased when he hasn't done anything particularly biased besides give me warnings in the diplomacy section 

[Matey]

To be fair he did ban Kesh, that's pretty good guy in my book.
For all we know fcc potentially transfered the gear into the fief to frame poor whateverhisnameis, and while that is really unlikely you still can't be crying about Canary not outright banning everyone in LL or whatever, with no proof, or being biased when he hasn't done anything particularly biased besides give me warnings in the diplomacy section 

why do you assume I want to see anyone banned over this? I reported the issue because it is against the rules. That is the end of my responsibility in the matter; it is up to devs/admins/whoever to figure out how the shit got there and deal with it.

[Gmnotutoo]

Official FCC Declaration:

Since many of you seem to be upset with the way diplomacy is handled by Matey, Kesh, Bale, etc. I have decided that we are going to change our public image and have an official poster for all diplomacy related topics.

Here at the FCC we care about our relations with other people so we are going to pick the most qualified person for the job, congratulations Epoch! 

(click to show/hide)

All of you will be begging for Kesh in less than a week.

[CrazyCracka420]

Let Joe handle your diplomacy/decisions