cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Kanclerz on August 04, 2013, 01:18:14 am

Title: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Kanclerz on August 04, 2013, 01:18:14 am
Catapult for defenders? NO!
Catapult is a OFFENSE weapon, not defense!
Defense version of catapult is Mangonel.

Prohibit the catapult for the defenders

Catapult in defender team give no chance for assault with siege towers to the walls..........
In wooden castle attacking side can't break walls and can't use siege towers............

0% chance for attack to walls with siege towers
ladder falls after 3 hits, siege tower is destroyed after 2 shots.............. That's horrible
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: tortoul on August 04, 2013, 01:39:14 am
i voted yes. but actually i would vote for the possibility of destroying the wooden walls by catapult.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Sebi_is_Hero on August 04, 2013, 01:41:03 am
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 04, 2013, 01:49:31 am
Butthurt again for losing a siege  :rolleyes:

Catapults are not just an assaulting weapon. Catapults (and often trebuchets) were often found on a wall.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Kanclerz on August 04, 2013, 01:51:57 am
Catapult is offensive, Mangonel is defensive.
Mangonel's are placed on top of big towers.
Don't be a Merc Haboe, start to read history books
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Strudog on August 04, 2013, 01:53:16 am
Just because im an amazing shot, no need to get butt hurt about it
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 04, 2013, 01:55:58 am
Catapult is offensive, Mangonel is defensive.
Mangonel's are placed on top of big towers.
Don't be a Merc Haboe, start to read history books

And since our trebuchets are mere models that do't work, we use catapults for that instead.

Maybe when the ballista/ scorpion gets added for defenders, the cata won't be needed anymore.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Tuetensuppe on August 04, 2013, 01:56:25 am
(click to show/hide)

iam the guy with the bec!

im famous now, thx!!!! anything information was givven in the video btw?
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on August 04, 2013, 01:57:04 am
When wood is indestructible, prohibiting catapults from defending team sounds fair?
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Strudog on August 04, 2013, 01:57:53 am
As soon as something doesn't go the Greys way, there is an instant forum post about it.

Sigh
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Darkoveride on August 04, 2013, 01:58:15 am
iam the guy with the bec!

im famous now, thx!!!! anything information was givven in the video btw?

Im the guy with steel pick WOOOOOT
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Tuetensuppe on August 04, 2013, 02:00:43 am
Catapult is offensive, Mangonel is defensive.
Mangonel's are placed on top of big towers.
Don't be a Merc Haboe, start to read history books


no worries that you cant handle catapults that good (i remember some really funny actions/battles)...im sure we can teach you how to use and shoot it in the right way, but only if you explain us how to aboose ladders in the right way ;)

Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Kanclerz on August 04, 2013, 02:00:51 am
Too much Lord of the Rings, Haboe.
Show me a castle with BIG, BIG TOWERS, where you can place the trebuchet?
Dover Castle? NO
Marienburg Castle? NO
Kerak Castle? NO

Read the wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet
Look at images, trebuchet is to BIG for towers,
catapult have short arm


PS
Kowcio, jesteś kretynem i nie pisz nic w tym temacie........
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: kowcioo on August 04, 2013, 02:01:36 am
Catapult is offensive, Mangonel is defensive.
Mangonel's are placed on top of big towers.
Don't be a Merc Haboe, start to read history books


What kind of history books you read? "The siege of legoland" ?
Mangonel is a siege machine which was used to shot multiple smaller stones at once.
Catapults, same as trebuchets were used for - actually who doesn't knows that..
Catapults were oftenly spotted on walls and towers, same as trebuchets.
All.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Kingtrisp on August 04, 2013, 02:02:51 am
I dont remember there being any trebuchet or Mangonel in crpg so how are people supposed to use somthing that is not actually in the game?

Futhermore if people want destructable walls then i want to have Ballista's and oil (and when lit fire stays lit until it is put out or goes out by itself)
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: kowcioo on August 04, 2013, 02:04:36 am
Im the guy with steel pick WOOOOOT

I am the morningstar one! yaaaay!


ps. Kanclerz (debilu) nawet w historii Twojego (jak i mojego) własnego państwa używano katapult do obrony podczas oblężenia (np. Bitwa pod Niemczą w 1017 bodajże), a i dziękuję, za jakże ładne przezwisko, widzę, że mam do czynienia tylko z dorosłymi.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Falka on August 04, 2013, 02:05:43 am
Heh, he changed poll, becasue there was too many "no"?  :lol:
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Osiris on August 04, 2013, 02:07:55 am
Heh, he changed poll, becasue there was too many "no"?  :lol:


typical grey :D
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Tuetensuppe on August 04, 2013, 02:13:25 am
Too much Lord of the Rings

may alburq dont looks like that...but wait for all the GKs comming soon to take your right flank!


Heh, he changed poll, becasue there was too many "no"?  :lol:

http://z0r.de/2277 (http://z0r.de/2277)
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Kanclerz on August 04, 2013, 02:14:13 am
No, not to many no...............
I not must change the option.
Look, people hates using catapult in defending castle and immortal wooden wall
Minas Tirith walls and towers? Imagine of Tolkien and Jackson's.

Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Falka on August 04, 2013, 02:15:08 am
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Fucking cheaters. If you can not play without aimbots, cheats and haxes just don't play!  :wink:
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Tony007rammstein on August 04, 2013, 02:24:57 am
If u dislike catapults for defenders - give them ballistas so, it would be even worse for attackers... Realism ftw! Also, give them burning arrows, boiled oil and suiciding hedghocks!
And don't forget the ancient Greck and Roman history, catapults (Onagrs) were well known in this period as for sieging side and for defensive aswell. Dont u thing that thing people used more than 2000 years ago became forgotten in medieval ?  :wink:
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Latvian on August 04, 2013, 02:27:06 am
and what did you expect? Us standing and watching how you jump in castle from siege tower? we have best way how to destroy siege tower, but hey , lets not use it only because attackers dont like
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Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Kanclerz on August 04, 2013, 02:29:14 am
I didn't a developer. I can't give him ballistas. I want the wooden walls, which is impossible to destroy, and so what?

When is goood for Merc's - no post on the forum
When is bad for Merc's: http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/flag-cheat/
http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/the-kicking-of-attackers-at-maras-castle/
http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/crpg-ladder-simulator/
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Tony007rammstein on August 04, 2013, 02:30:47 am
Raging kid detected, life is not fair ha?
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Zaalback on August 04, 2013, 02:32:11 am
If u dislike catapults for defenders - give them ballistas so, it would be even worse for attackers... Realism ftw! Also, give them burning arrows, boiled oil and suiciding hedghocks!
And don't forget the ancient Greck and Roman history, catapults (Onagrs) were well known in this period as for sieging side and for defencive aswell. Dont u thing that thing people used more than 2000 years ago became forgotten in medieval ?  :wink:

And give to the attackers rams to ram the doors, with burning chariots for the wooden castles !  :mrgreen:
They can also implement tunnelling stuff :p
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Strudog on August 04, 2013, 02:37:37 am
No, not to many no...............
I not must change the option.
Look, people hates using catapult in defending castle and immortal wooden wall
Minas Tirith walls and towers? Imagine of Tolkien and Jackson's.

36 greys does not count as everyone hating it, and yes wooden walls "aren't" destructible
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Osiris on August 04, 2013, 02:41:36 am
no strudog you missed it! those 36 people voted no but then because no was winning greys changed the poll so we all voted to ban catapults ^^
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Silicium on August 04, 2013, 02:47:28 am
Too much Lord of the Rings, Haboe.
Show me a castle with BIG, BIG TOWERS, where you can place the trebuchet?
Dover Castle? NO
Marienburg Castle? NO
Kerak Castle? NO

Read the wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet
Look at images, trebuchet is to BIG for towers,
catapult have short arm


PS
Kowcio, jesteś kretynem i nie pisz nic w tym temacie........

This link as a reference. 

http://web.grinnell.edu/courses/ant/S00/ANT154-01/vick/cat_def.html



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Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Erasmas on August 04, 2013, 02:51:11 am
Butthurt again for losing a siege  :rolleyes:

Not really. It was frustrating but we had our share of fun. Guys on TS even started to sing to keep the morale up :D It is a very difficult castle indeed. Steep hills, wooden walls and little space to place the siege tower. Plus bugged con materials...  The point is that in this particular case it was clearly visible how the defenders' catapult makes the difference. This should be balanced somehow... Hell, just look at the results of the recent sieges. Rare result for ANY siege, no matter who is the attacker.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 04, 2013, 02:53:51 am
I didn't a developer. I can't give him ballistas.
They have a working finished model for it, i'm secretly hoping for it to release at strat 5)

When is bad for Merc's: http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/flag-cheat/
Simply breaking the rules there.

http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/the-kicking-of-attackers-at-maras-castle/
Not a clue what this is, seems a teeth whining topic about coalition exploiting, wasn't there at the time, but don't see the relation to it.

http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/crpg-ladder-simulator/
There were no rules at that time, the topic made there, is one of the topics that inspired me to make the strategus rules we all have to obey to nowadays.
Was unclear what was exploiting and what was allowed, even admins from both sides kicked ppl for doing stuff no one knew if it was allowed.

Not saying we don't do this, but you just took fiefs (rivacheg, can't remember the other) where the doors could only be opened by the attacker. Not a word on that is there?

yet, now you get your asses kicked, i count 4 topics dedicated to nerfing down that 1 single castle...
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Silicium on August 04, 2013, 03:01:01 am
Not really. It was frustrating but we had our share of fun. Guys on TS even started to sing to keep the morale up :D It is a very difficult castle indeed. Steep hills, wooden walls and little space to place the siege tower. Plus bugged con materials...  The point is that in this particular case it was clearly visible how the defenders' catapult makes the difference. This should be balanced somehow... Hell, just look at the results of the recent sieges. Rare result for ANY siege, no matter who is the attacker.
Maybe adding the ballista as an expansion for castle instead of catapults, though separate ammo's would need to be made for in game, i think using siege projectile as defense is a legit way of keeping any siege engine away from the walls, as it was only attacking the siege tower.

Adding flaming arrows would be cool aswell, such as having a flaming pot and the defender and the attacker would need to press F on it each time, after the object being constructed of course, decreased damage against non wooden structure or cloth, increased damage if targeting the proper material.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 03:02:27 am
First of all, we have to agree there is a problem, if we dont we cant really discuss solutions to it now can we. So, attackers are, by the looks of it, strangely enough agreeing on that game mechanics on the sieges of wooden castles has problems.

Haboe, could we agree on this or are you fine with the way things are now?

And btw about the Rivacheg doors (that really didnt do any difference to the outcome anyway), yes it has been mentioned a couple of times and you managed to do it again - and that problem should be solved I agree

Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Strudog on August 04, 2013, 08:12:08 am
Not really. It was frustrating but we had our share of fun. Guys on TS even started to sing to keep the morale up :D It is a very difficult castle indeed. Steep hills, wooden walls and little space to place the siege tower. Plus bugged con materials...  The point is that in this particular case it was clearly visible how the defenders' catapult makes the difference. This should be balanced somehow... Hell, just look at the results of the recent sieges. Rare result for ANY siege, no matter who is the attacker.

Im truly honoured that my catapult skill have been recognised by the other side, i consider my 10 kills with it to be game breaking. PLus you guys are using the completely wrong tactic anyways, it is a small castle and thus rather easy to hit the siege tower, your ladder assaults are lack lustre and very unorganised and looks like you already set your selves up for defeat before the battle starts.

You guys haven't explored every option, you seem too set on that siege towers are going to work when they obviously don't.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Latvian on August 04, 2013, 08:51:43 am
Im truly honoured that my catapult skill have been recognised by the other side, i consider my 10 kills with it to be game breaking. PLus you guys are using the completely wrong tactic anyways, it is a small castle and thus rather easy to hit the siege tower, your ladder assaults are lack lustre and very unorganised and looks like you already set your selves up for defeat before the battle starts.

You guys haven't explored every option, you seem too set on that siege towers are going to work when they obviously don't.
shush.... let them use same tactic  :twisted:
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on August 04, 2013, 09:47:30 am
Wooden castles should be made destroyable (which however will never happen due to dev inactivity), catapults shouldn't be prohibited.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: YnScN on August 04, 2013, 09:49:25 am
(click to show/hide)

I'm that Kapikulu guy :D. Btw there must be a balance for the wooden castles, since atackers cant use catapults i think defenders shouldnt be able to use it. Or if possible modify wooden castles so they can be hit by catapults.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Sebi_is_Hero on August 04, 2013, 10:28:05 am
iam the guy with the bec!

im famous now, thx!!!! anything information was givven in the video btw?

Maybe read the title of the video ?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Strudog on August 04, 2013, 11:21:47 am
Maybe read the title of the video ?

(click to show/hide)

I count 9 hits
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on August 04, 2013, 11:22:59 am
Please, don't take away the last hope of mercs!!!
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on August 04, 2013, 11:30:10 am
This is nothing but pathetic.

Everybody knows these wooden castles are absolute bitches to take, due to the indestructable walls.

Instead of crying to the devs to change all sorts of things, focus on what we need: Destructable wooden walls.
    And in the mean time, commend your enemy for a defense well played. I must say that the Mercs did an excellent job at defending, but the Greys did a worse than usual result at attacking this one. Before you cry back to me; yes, I know how difficult it is to attack hard castles. I've been leading sieges too, also on difficult castles. The Fallen and I have never resorted ourselves to this senseless forum banter for a bad siege, I had expected better of the Greys.

Devs, make wooden walls destructable. The wooden castles are OP.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Kingtrisp on August 04, 2013, 11:47:46 am
Watching the greys attack last night was like watching whack a mole they spent the majority of the fight putting up ladders in the same darn place!!

Surely the greys tactics for attacking places is better then this? and they know that there is more then one side to that castle.... :oops:
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Kalp on August 04, 2013, 12:29:21 pm
Quote
Instead of crying to the devs to change all sorts of things, focus on what we need:
oh wait..... tell this to Dave...

even if they have things ready to use they don't give a single fuck atm to implement them
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Kanclerz on August 04, 2013, 01:48:47 pm
We have the support of Lord Tywin!
Short interview with him
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Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 04, 2013, 02:04:43 pm

Haboe, could we agree on this or are you fine with the way things are now?


Wood not being destroyable by cata is bs ofc.

I think the only reason for that: There are no broken wooden wall models.
Was expecting them quickly after cata's got implemented, but it seems they never got to it.

It's bullshit ofc, but no one is forcing you to attack alburq.

As for mapfixes, they usually get through during resets of strategus.
With some luck we will get one at some point, then i hope to see broken wooden walls, fixed doors/ gates, ballista's and all the other crap they worked on in the past month (including reworked eco etc)
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 02:06:49 pm
This is nothing but pathetic.

Everybody knows these wooden castles are absolute bitches to take, due to the indestructable walls.

Instead of crying to the devs to change all sorts of things, focus on what we need: Destructable wooden walls.
    And in the mean time, commend your enemy for a defense well played. I must say that the Mercs did an excellent job at defending, but the Greys did a worse than usual result at attacking this one. Before you cry back to me; yes, I know how difficult it is to attack hard castles. I've been leading sieges too, also on difficult castles. The Fallen and I have never resorted ourselves to this senseless forum banter for a bad siege, I had expected better of the Greys.

Devs, make wooden walls destructable. The wooden castles are OP.

Well Ramses the problem is now at hand, not in 6 months. We both agree it seems that there is a problem, thats a start. Since we cant count on the devs to solve it by making the walls brakeable anytime soon, we could try and find solutions for it together. Would be the sencible thing to do here, since wooden castles are being sieged right now. So, if u have any suggestions other than focusing on the devs to solve it (which we ofc also should do) it would be utterly welcome in the discussion.

I am pretty new to this game, I havent sieged a wooden castle before, actually my first sieges in leadership of a clan was the first attacks of this war from our side - Bulugha and Rivacheg. So I will leave the suggestions up to the more experienced commanders like yourself.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Keshian on August 04, 2013, 02:13:08 pm
What happened?  I don't see the battle results under archives and it looks like the same battle is up again tonight at a later time?  How did they get a redo?
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Zaalback on August 04, 2013, 02:14:44 pm
Watching the greys attack last night was like watching whack a mole they spent the majority of the fight putting up ladders in the same darn place!!

Surely the greys tactics for attacking places is better then this? and they know that there is more then one side to that castle.... :oops:

If you think , that you can coordinate the siege any better , I'll take you in our roster, and give you 150k gold if your method works out . The other sides are just the same pain and as a the castle is small like shit , it takes 4-5 seconds for the defenders to get to the back side of the castle and lolpike the ladders to death.

Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 02:15:00 pm
It's bullshit ofc, but no one is forcing you to attack alburq.

As for mapfixes, they usually get through during resets of strategus.
With some luck we will get one at some point, then i hope to see broken wooden walls, fixed doors/ gates, ballista's and all the other crap they worked on in the past month (including reworked eco etc)

I see, you agree there is a problem with the game mechanic of wooden castles, but you are not willing to do something about it because it wouldnt benefit your clan at this point in the game. But it might in 2 months, or in 3 weeks and then perhaps you will be eager to find solutions, what do I know. Now I know your standing point, it pretty much shows your color - again.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 02:15:42 pm
What happened?  I don't see the battle results under archives and it looks like the same battle is up again tonight at a later time?  How did they get a redo?

It crashed so it will be on again tonight
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Zaalback on August 04, 2013, 02:21:28 pm
We both agree it seems that there is a problem, thats a start. Since we cant count on the devs to solve it by making the walls brakeable anytime soon, we could try and find solutions for it together.

Yea we can arrange this . As it's nearly impossible to capture that stronghold, defenders can let us getting on the walls by not breaking our ladders, and as a payback we will not capture their flags and not spawnrape them  . Seems fair huh ? :P
Or if they come somedays to Suno we could throw them ladders to get in the city in a comfortable way !
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Osiris on August 04, 2013, 02:26:53 pm
I see, you agree there is a problem with the game mechanic of wooden castles, but you are not willing to do something about it because it wouldnt benefit your clan at this point in the game. But it might in 2 months, or in 3 weeks and then perhaps you will be eager to find solutions, what do I know. Now I know your standing point, it pretty much shows your color - again.


ahh yes *gives keys to the castle to wolves* is that the only way to stop the QQ? or would you like us to give you gold and equip too?
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 02:28:25 pm
Thankyou for your wise input Osiris, you really add intelligence to this discussion - we all give you thanks
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Tyr_ on August 04, 2013, 02:30:49 pm
We have the support of Lord Tywin!
Short interview with him
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Ok, remove catapult for defenders but then give them dragons (flying carpet + flamethrower) instead, im totally fine with that.

I see, you agree there is a problem with the game mechanic of wooden castles, but you are not willing to do something about it because it wouldnt benefit your clan at this point in the game. But it might in 2 months, or in 3 weeks and then perhaps you will be eager to find solutions, what do I know. Now I know your standing point, it pretty much shows your color - again.

Don't be such a little pussy. We assaulted wooden castles aswell, and there always was one solution: Throw more armies against it.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Osiris on August 04, 2013, 02:33:19 pm
Thankyou for your wise input Osiris, you really add intelligence to this discussion - we all give you thanks

well what your asking grandmom is to stop making suggestions for ways the devs can fix wooden castles and that apostates should just not defend it much
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Strudog on August 04, 2013, 02:46:52 pm
I did vote 'yes' at the time, but that was just post-siege rage. Honestly, defenders should be able to use catapults, and that really isn't the part of the siege last night that needs to be fixed. Depriving defense of catapults wouldn't really fix or balance things.

The fact is, if wooden walls were breakable, or siege towers weren't so buggy i doubt we would even be having this discussion.

Realistically the two biggest issues with siege at the moment are the invincible wooden walls, and the 1/3 attack rule. Fix those and we can avoid any legitimate butthurt over sieges, they'd still be tough, costly and nightmarish to organize, but they'd be fair. Leave things as they are and i foresee another few months of stalemate fast approaching.

The problem is that the Greys expect every Siege to go their way and for it to somewhat be an easy job for them, as soon as it doesn't there are a lot of threads that pop up complaining about unfair it was, do you think if the positions were swapped around the Greys would be making all these threads about how OP wooden castles are? NO.

The threads would be about their massive victories and saying how shit the Apostates are, its just that the greys are raging at the moment because they are unable to come up with a tactic that is plausible and will help them get somewhat a foothold.

I agree that wooden walls are BS atm, but what are you going to do about it? Nothing, These are a few victories that the Apostates have had in the last few weeks and please just let us enjoy it like we let you enjoy yours, after we are all their for the XP otherwise no one would turn up
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on August 04, 2013, 02:49:34 pm
. lel
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 03:13:18 pm
Ok, remove catapult for defenders but then give them dragons (flying carpet + flamethrower) instead, im totally fine with that.

Don't be such a little pussy. We assaulted wooden castles aswell, and there always was one solution: Throw more armies against it.

Ok Tyr, I see we wont make any progress here, thankyou for trying m8
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Falka on August 04, 2013, 03:15:14 pm
Granny, I don't see greys, wolves or any other faction doing what you propose, if they would be defenders in this castle. "Attackers have hard time capturing our castle so mkay, we won't destroy their siege towers, we won't use catapults which until now were fully legit defence tool". Riiiight  :wink: I remember Bobby using catapult in some castle a few weeks ago, shooting at attackers forward spawn and catapults and noone cared about it. Btw, when Shu Han and GO attacked Senuzgda castle a month ago in first two sieges defenders lost 600 troops, more or less the same amount as now.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on August 04, 2013, 03:21:35 pm
Well Ramses the problem is now at hand, not in 6 months. We both agree it seems that there is a problem, thats a start. Since we cant count on the devs to solve it by making the walls brakeable anytime soon, we could try and find solutions for it together. Would be the sencible thing to do here, since wooden castles are being sieged right now. So, if u have any suggestions other than focusing on the devs to solve it (which we ofc also should do) it would be utterly welcome in the discussion.

I am pretty new to this game, I havent sieged a wooden castle before, actually my first sieges in leadership of a clan was the first attacks of this war from our side - Bulugha and Rivacheg. So I will leave the suggestions up to the more experienced commanders like yourself.

Your argument flaws at the moment you think you HAVE to take Alburg castle. There are plenty of other castles to pick from, why don't you try attacking them? Instead of trying to change the rules at the most convinient time for you, why don't you propose the change, hope the best and then be on your way to a new target? It is senseless to accusse the devs of incompetance several months, even years after a change has been made and then think your proposed change happens at that exact moment. Wooden castles have been bugged for ages and you know it (Maybe not you in person, but people from your faction do), you attacked it well knowing what could happen.

Instead of bullshitting on the forums and demanding ludicrious changes (Not what you're doing, but what the Grey guys are), man up and change your game. I have 0 confidence in the devs from experience. I know they never change what is needed at the right time and in the right place. I lost all faith with chadz when he said Strategus would be on hold for 2 weeks, only to make it disappear for 6 months. You can't influence the devs with anything but simple suggestions, and hope for the best.

As Casimir said it once "Think not what strategus can do for you, but what you can do for strategus".

YOU have to change, not the game. Adjust your strategies, your baseline, everything untill you find the right angle.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 03:28:13 pm
The problem is that the Greys expect every Siege to go their way and for it to somewhat be an easy job for them, as soon as it doesn't there are a lot of threads that pop up complaining about unfair it was, do you think if the positions were swapped around the Greys would be making all these threads about how OP wooden castles are? NO.

The threads would be about their massive victories and saying how shit the Apostates are, its just that the greys are raging at the moment because they are unable to come up with a tactic that is plausible and will help them get somewhat a foothold.

I agree that wooden walls are BS atm, but what are you going to do about it? Nothing, These are a few victories that the Apostates have had in the last few weeks and please just let us enjoy it like we let you enjoy yours, after we are all their for the XP otherwise no one would turn up

Strudog, ok, congratulations to your victories, you did a good job defending them and you accuracy with the catapult was amazing, I mean that.  We all are having fun, even us guys on the outside of the castle. Thats all good. And you would probably defend it several times even if the walls were breakable - its not my point - point is we know its a flaw in the game - we all know that devs wont do much to solve it in the near time, and we all know merc leadership wont come to some sort of agreement or even try to discuss it.

Just to show what a bunch of (cencured) your current leadership is, if the Wolves will take this castle we will try and make some agreement on how to make the wooden castles not so OP, even if it will make it harder for us to keep it. If some sorrt of agreement can be found - good, then it will benefit the game.

Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on August 04, 2013, 03:30:27 pm
Jeirbe Castle 12542 men: around 4200 men needed for assault one alone.
Ismirala Castle 19736 men: around 6600 men needed for first assault.
Tehrog Castle 7443 men
Derchios Castle 6970 men
Dhirim 13154 men
Senuzgda Castle 8400 men...

You get the idea, who wants to waste that many on first attack alone? The 1/3 rule is (and has been) priority to change in my opinion above all else. That and make wood breakable as a close 2nd.

Welcome to strat Heskey, these are simply the casualties needed (atm) to take a heavily fortified enemy. The Druzhina did the exact same thing when they were fortifying themselves, we didn't cry about it.

I agree that the 1/3 rule is stupid and should be changed, but I do not count on the devs to come to my aid.

EDIT: Grandmom, you're laying out the issue as if the castle is untakeable. That's untrue.

Yes, it will take LOTS of men to take it, but every time you attack you kill some of the enemies. Y'know, once upon there were no siege towers, no catapults, just ladders. Castles and cities were still takeable back then.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Keshian on August 04, 2013, 03:31:08 pm
Jeirbe Castle 12542 men: around 4200 men needed for assault one alone.
Ismirala Castle 19736 men: around 6600 men needed for first assault.
Tehrog Castle 7443 men
Derchios Castle 6970 men
Dhirim 13154 men
Senuzgda Castle 8400 men...

You get the idea, who wants to waste that many on first attack alone? The 1/3 rule is (and has been) priority to change in my opinion above all else. That and make wood breakable as a close 2nd.

To be fair you probably just ahve to let them know youa re interested in attacking a place like dhirim (which makes alburq look easy) and they wouldn't keep all the troops in the city to save on upkeep but take most out for the attack.  They cant just leave most of the troops out in anticipation of an attack that never happens or they will bleed all their money away on upkeep.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 03:35:03 pm
Your argument flaws at the moment you think you HAVE to take Alburg castle. There are plenty of other castles to pick from, why don't you try attacking them? Instead of trying to change the rules at the most convinient time for you, why don't you propose the change, hope the best and then be on your way to a new target? It is senseless to accusse the devs of incompetance several months, even years after a change has been made and then think your proposed change happens at that exact moment. Wooden castles have been bugged for ages and you know it (Maybe not you in person, but people from your faction do), you attacked it well knowing what could happen.

Instead of bullshitting on the forums and demanding ludicrious changes (Not what you're doing, but what the Grey guys are), man up and change your game. I have 0 confidence in the devs from experience. I know they never change what is needed at the right time and in the right place. I lost all faith with chadz when he said Strategus would be on hold for 2 weeks, only to make it disappear for 6 months. You can't influence the devs with anything but simple suggestions, and hope for the best.

As Casimir said it once "Think not what strategus can do for you, but what you can do for strategus".

YOU have to change, not the game. Adjust your strategies, your baseline, everything untill you find the right angle.

(click to show/hide)

Ramses, you are missing my point, I agree that we should focus on getting the devs to fix the flaws of the game, but until they do we could make agreements on what to do and not do to solve bs problems. For instance, I havent yet seen defenders of a castle build 5 weapon racks before the attackers can even do one - dont know if its a rule, or its just guys playing nicely but it works - its an agreement, perhaps silent, but still an agreement to solve a problem in strat. With your point of view "adjust your strategies" this weaponrackproblem should then be, dont attack any castle/town because you cant as an attacker use weaponracks. This also applies to ladders, if the defenders all spawned 2 medium ladders each attackers wouldnt be able to use ladders, so u see where Im going with this?

And again Ramses, you are missing the point, I know its not untakeable, Im not writing here because I want Alburq castle, I have just seen for the first time the OP level of wooden castles in general, this is a problem and we could work together to solve it.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Strudog on August 04, 2013, 03:35:34 pm
Strudog, ok, congratulations to your victories, you did a good job defending them and you accuracy with the catapult was amazing, I mean that.  We all are having fun, even us guys on the outside of the castle. Thats all good. And you would probably defend it several times even if the walls were breakable - its not my point - point is we know its a flaw in the game - we all know that devs wont do much to solve it in the near time, and we all know merc leadership wont come to some sort of agreement or even try to discuss it.

Just to show what a bunch of (cencured) your current leadership is, if the Wolves will take this castle we will try and make some agreement on how to make the wooden castles not so OP, even if it will make it harder for us to keep it. If some sorrt of agreement can be found - good, then it will benefit the game.


All im stating is that yes they do need a fix, but if the Greys were the one s defending do you really think they would be making all these threads?

But this thread is about catapults, and the fact is that cata's are the best counter to siege towers, it takes a million hits to kill a siege tower in melee , do you really think we would let you build 3-5 siege towers and just let you run all over our walls?
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 03:39:06 pm
I have no idea if they would have, I dont give a shit really if they would, Im not speaking for the greys, I am speaking as a player/leader in strat - we see a problem that we could perhaps not solve completely but at least discuss in a sorted manner.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Vovka on August 04, 2013, 04:03:36 pm
just boost Siege tower's hp like X20 so defenders can take down towers only with catas  :P
problem fixed

oh and dont forget about ccatas hp aswell x10 will be fine
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: _RXN_ on August 04, 2013, 04:50:58 pm
And also, as i proposed already, make please that the siege tower cannot be moved only by 1 player, but something like by 6 players (3 on the left side, 3 on the right). It's ridiculous that a 10-15 meters tower can be moved like now, only by 1 superman.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 04, 2013, 05:00:20 pm
Strudog, ok, congratulations to your victories, you did a good job defending them and you accuracy with the catapult was amazing, I mean that.  We all are having fun, even us guys on the outside of the castle. Thats all good. And you would probably defend it several times even if the walls were breakable - its not my point - point is we know its a flaw in the game - we all know that devs wont do much to solve it in the near time, and we all know merc leadership wont come to some sort of agreement or even try to discuss it.

Just to show what a bunch of (cencured) your current leadership is, if the Wolves will take this castle we will try and make some agreement on how to make the wooden castles not so OP, even if it will make it harder for us to keep it. If some sorrt of agreement can be found - good, then it will benefit the game.

Bullshit.

You bounced strudog around the map so sargoth would be a big itembombed piece of shit. Instead of making it fun for both sides to fight, you continued the attacks on him.
But yea, then it was not in your advantage to play for fun battles, so ofc you didn't. Our fail was for strudog to be out of his fief, yours is to attack alburq instead of senuzgda/ derchios.

Jeirbe Castle 12542 men: around 4200 men needed for assault one alone.
Ismirala Castle 19736 men: around 6600 men needed for first assault.
Tehrog Castle 7443 men
Derchios Castle 6970 men
Dhirim 13154 men
Senuzgda Castle 8400 men...

You get the idea, who wants to waste that many on first attack alone? The 1/3 rule is (and has been) priority to change in my opinion above all else. That and make wood breakable as a close 2nd.

The desert situation was much like this, all 10k+ fiefs left. Not 1 garrison would be lowered so there could be fights.
Not really sure why anyone would expect us to lower garrisons... We are keeping alburq at around 6k, enjoyable battles at a castle of our choosing, thats the defenders privilege in this case.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 04, 2013, 05:33:29 pm
Can you guys stop raging at my castle please, the mean words are making it upset :(
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 04, 2013, 06:09:06 pm
The 1/3 rule sucks in every case, and in the desert war a few months ago i supported Templar and Ni if i could ever get into a roster.

I'm not complaining that you keep Alburq Castle at 6k men, that's respectable of you, the people who say GO, Wolves etc are dumb and should attack a different castle instead just needed to see the figures that explain why it'd be an even worst waste of men to attack anywhere else. I fully expect we've now reached the point where Apostates have got more active players again and can produce faster than attackers can kill in Alburq Castle (especially with battles being reset). And since noone fancies attacking somewhere else with 5-6k men i expect another fun stalemate. And sure, since it's a game mechanic and everyone else does it who can blame Apostates for stacking their remaining castles they don't want to be attacked? The same way Greys and Wolves can do it to you if you ever want to retake your lost land. So just do away with the rule so nobody can do it, people have posted about it a ton of times, and i haven't heard anyone disagree with the idea that 1800 men should be able to attack any castle, but it always gets ignored or overlooked or postponed or not read- it's hard to tell which.

The thing on 1/3 rule, the castles and all other shit, is that ppl adapt their strategy on it. Simply because if you don't do it, your enemy's will and they get the upperhand.
Strategus is about thinking on the long term for a lot of things, so if they fix very much used tactics, it completely fucks up someone's strategy, major buzzkill. So they makes fixes during resets.
With that many fixes and changes happen all at once, there is bound to be fail fixes, that will wait a year again to be fixed.

So also for the 1/3 rule scrap i'm gonna put my money on a strat-reset-fix.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 06:44:25 pm
Bullshit.

You bounced strudog around the map so sargoth would be a big itembombed piece of shit. Instead of making it fun for both sides to fight, you continued the attacks on him.
But yea, then it was not in your advantage to play for fun battles, so ofc you didn't. Our fail was for strudog to be out of his fief, yours is to attack alburq instead of senuzgda/ derchios.

Firstly, according to most of you that was an idiotic strategy, you laughed at us attacking your runaway lords - nice to see you have realised the value of keeping lords inside their castles.

We never take em out of the castles and fiefs, you can choose to do this also and there is no problem, noone could ever use it against you. To the point, if the lord isnt at home he cannot run the castle properly, is it a flaw of the game? Perhaps it is, perhaps not, perhaps everyone with the right level in the faction should be able to sort the gear, I dont know. But you have options and you choose the wrong one.

But we cant choose not to take a wooden castle because it has flaws, if our side is to wipe you, we need to take it. Its not optional.....and yes, we will try to grind it down, and we will have perhaps 10 sieges more killing 600 troops each time, we will see.


Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Silicium on August 04, 2013, 06:53:33 pm
I see, you agree there is a problem with the game mechanic of wooden castles, but you are not willing to do something about it because it wouldnt benefit your clan at this point in the game. But it might in 2 months, or in 3 weeks and then perhaps you will be eager to find solutions, what do I know. Now I know your standing point, it pretty much shows your color - again.
Were did you see him stating it won't? he can't implement those change, he isn't a dev and instead of jumping into conclusion why don't you bug the dev on irc for a change.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 04, 2013, 07:14:59 pm
Firstly, according to most of you that was an idiotic strategy, you laughed at us attacking your runaway lords - nice to see you have realised the value of keeping lords inside their castles.

We never take em out of the castles and fiefs, you can choose to do this also and there is no problem, noone could ever use it against you. To the point, if the lord isnt at home he cannot run the castle properly, is it a flaw of the game? Perhaps it is, perhaps not, perhaps everyone with the right level in the faction should be able to sort the gear, I dont know. But you have options and you choose the wrong one.

But we cant choose not to take a wooden castle because it has flaws, if our side is to wipe you, we need to take it. Its not optional.....and yes, we will try to grind it down, and we will have perhaps 10 sieges more killing 600 troops each time, we will see.

Lol, its an option to attack it. You don't have to, you want to, nothing more.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 04, 2013, 07:47:46 pm
Were did you see him stating it won't? he can't implement those change, he isn't a dev and instead of jumping into conclusion why don't you bug the dev on irc for a change.

One more merc not understanding the purpose of this, try reading some posts before and call your mom and perhaps she can help you out...

Lol, its an option to attack it. You don't have to, you want to, nothing more.

This is like speaking to a teenager, am I? I have an option to stop trying to make u understand, I will use it
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Casimir on August 04, 2013, 08:21:03 pm
There is nothing unrealistic about placing a catapult inside a castle.  On walls maybe but within a courtyard is completely understandable.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 04, 2013, 08:27:36 pm
Maybe you can surrender and accept me as your Overlord?

I shall be known as the Overlord of the East!
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Osiris on August 04, 2013, 08:39:00 pm
you will be overlord of nothing while you still have that dirty acre banner in your sig :D
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: djavo on August 04, 2013, 08:47:07 pm
Check this milf
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Kanclerz on August 04, 2013, 08:52:18 pm
 A few words on the subject of Mercenaries:   
Merc's give to fuck in the ass to win it, as long as it fits them it is ok, and if something does not fit it cries and lamentations on the forum.
"Grey's are cheating! record keys and accounts! "
"Grey's block spawn's with ladders!"
"Grey's have horses! This is cheating! "
We all know the Mercenaries and we know about them, any extravagance, zdradach, combinations.
Haboe is the largest cryer
With normal discussion topic did mess.
I have a rather strange tug, everything comes from us is bad.
So you envy torments that differently than banned our people you can't beat us?
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Casimir on August 04, 2013, 09:06:57 pm
You're a moron.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 04, 2013, 09:07:44 pm
A few words on the subject of Mercenaries:   
Merc's give to fuck in the ass to win it, as long as it fits them it is ok, and if something does not fit it cries and lamentations on the forum.
"Grey's are cheating! record keys and accounts! "
"Grey's block spawn's with ladders!"
"Grey's have horses! This is cheating! "
We all know the Mercenaries and we know about them, any extravagance, zdradach, combinations.
Haboe is the largest płaczką an confusion.
With normal discussion topic did mess.
I have a rather strange tug, everything comes from us is bad.
So you envy torments that differently than banned our people you can't beat us?


The normal thing is that when something is not working or there is no balanced it writes about it and for that matter in this topic
Nothing more here do not write, delete the discussion, because it is senseless


My name comes into effect here.....

....Crymoar
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 04, 2013, 09:09:53 pm
I know i talk too much all the time, but i felt like dignifying this with a reply:

A few words on the subject of Mercenaries:   
Merc's give to fuck in the ass to win it, as long as it fits them it is ok, and if something does not fit it cries and lamentations on the forum.
"Grey's are cheating! record keys and accounts! " You actually got caught doing that, if you cheat on a scale like that, don't be pissed if it hurts your reputation later on.
"Grey's block spawn's with ladders!" Has been a while since this happens, today it was the normans, and whoever was in their roster doing that. Its a bannable offence so off course i report it.
"Grey's have horses! This is cheating! " Where do you get your quotes mate? check the spoiler below on what i have to say about uif movement on the map
(click to show/hide)
We all know the Mercenaries and we know about them, any extravagance, zdradach, combinations.
Haboe is the largest płaczką an confusion. Not sure what płaczką an confusion means, but i assume it means im a dick on the forum, and there you are right  :lol:
With normal discussion topic did mess. Might be going off topic now and then, both sides do, but in the meanwhile both sides have been giving proper input on possible solutions on this problem.
I have a rather strange tug, everything comes from us is bad. I get the same feeling with the massive army of grey minussers that follow me around the forum, thanks for making me feel important there ;)
So you envy torments that differently than banned our people you can't beat us? I didn't ban those guys, they got themselves banned by cheating on a large scale, you got caught, stop whining about it if someone reminds you of it  :rolleyes:


The normal thing is that when something is not working or there is no balanced it writes about it and for that matter in this topic
Nothing more here do not write, delete the discussion, because it is senseless
You start by replying on everything in the discussion to end with "close it now", wanna have the last word? :P It's good that discussion play out like this, shows the problem at hand from multiple perspectives.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Lizard_man on August 04, 2013, 09:54:21 pm
A few words on the subject of Mercenaries:   
Merc's give to fuck in the ass to win it, as long as it fits them it is ok, and if something does not fit it cries and lamentations on the forum.
"Grey's are cheating! record keys and accounts! "
"Grey's block spawn's with ladders!"
"Grey's have horses! This is cheating! "
We all know the Mercenaries and we know about them, any extravagance, zdradach, combinations.
Haboe is the largest cryer
With normal discussion topic did mess.
I have a rather strange tug, everything comes from us is bad.
So you envy torments that differently than banned our people you can't beat us?


The normal thing is that when something is not working or there is no balanced it writes about it and for that matter in this topic
Nothing more here do not write, delete the discussion, because it is senseless


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Silicium on August 05, 2013, 01:26:04 am
One more merc not understanding the purpose of this, try reading some posts before and call your mom and perhaps she can help you out...

This is like speaking to a teenager, am I? I have an option to stop trying to make u understand, I will use it
Oh man this is hilarious, half of your post are a contempt of hatred and a bunch of reply's that could be counted as a 12 year old writing, if not worse then that, and your basic logic is to stop defending Alburq the way its men't be be defended simply because the walls can't be broken? what a great logic.

I did read your post  but one thing is obvious to me, you just can't stand people disagreeing with you and as following start to compensate for something you can't reply to without having to get emotional over a reply, yes i'm a pretty teen that can respond greatly in a more polite way then the guy that is to say married and as a kid? what a joke.

Go get some prehendation for your self!
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Harpag on August 05, 2013, 11:29:11 am
 :shock: ... nice flowers ... straight from Moronland  :rolleyes:  Instead of talking complete nonsense, better force devs to fix ramp in a small siege tower :!:

Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 05, 2013, 11:39:53 am
My point in this thread, simply asking if we could discuss the problem with the Wooden castles and hopefully find a solution for it, and this is with good intentions for strategus, I REALLY dont care about Alburq. I dont claim to have a solution, so how you could disagree with me on that topic is for me out of the blue.

I havent in any post said we should rid the catapults like some says (and yes I know the thread has this as its topic), we could in the community find solutins for the problem - Think about  the weaponrack limit - it could be a huge problem, defenders could easely spawn 5 of them and leave the attackers standing - right? The devs havent solved it, the community has and this is what I am talking about.

So no, I havent told you to stop defending Alburq, I havent whined about getting rid of the catapults for defenders, I havent said get rid of the 1/3 rule, I havent asked for keys to the gate - I HAVENT SUGGESTED ANYTHING OTHER THAN - COULD WE DISCUSS THE ISSUE IN SOME WAY?? Why du some find that so hard to understand? We all agree theres a problem dont we?

And now I will probably get an answer like "stop crying" or "Do u want us to give the castle away?" or "You can chose to siege something else" or " what are you proposing?"

I AM PROPOSING WE COULD HAVE A DISCUSSION CONCERNING THE PROBLEM AND POSSIBLY, JUST POSSIBLY FIND A SOLUTION TO IT THAT BENEFITS THE GAME





Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Nightmare798 on August 05, 2013, 11:40:44 am
lmao what about romans using catapults to defend their ports, have you forgotten about that? heck they even used them on boats dude!
do some research before asking things like this...
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 05, 2013, 11:44:12 am
"stop crying" or "You can chose to siege something else" or " what are you proposing?"

It only seems to be a problem for you because its concerning a castle you want to have, and you can't have it at this point.

And yes, they are working on a fix for the walls, though i heard its not perfect/ complete yet.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 05, 2013, 12:01:28 pm
It only seems to be a problem for you because its concerning a castle you want to have, and you can't have it at this point.

And yes, they are working on a fix for the walls, though i heard its not perfect/ complete yet.

No, its a problem concerning the game Haboe, thought we had covered that, I could even agree on not even tryin to take any of your wooden castles if we found a solution to the problem. But to find a solution we would need people from both sides discussing it
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 05, 2013, 12:09:47 pm
As i said, fixes are being worked on by the devs, just not functioning properly yet.

Good to see you agree not to take any wooden castles, since yesterday it was "not an option or a choice, we have to take it even it we take it 600 tickets at a time"
Changed your mind after last nights battles?

Wolves    1,830       Apostates       351
Grey Order    2,162       Apostates : Alburq Castle       483

Morales have been boosted the past weeks, activity in the eastern front is back.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Vovka on August 05, 2013, 12:12:24 pm
Morales have been boosted the past weeks, activity in the eastern front is back.
on forum?  :P
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 05, 2013, 12:26:01 pm
Nah, mainly on the field  :wink:
A strategy like this takes heavy losses in the start, but it's paying off now.

Free Peasants of Fisdnar    1,757       Apostates : Fisdnar       1,061
Wolves    1,830       Apostates       351
Grey Order    2,162       Apostates : Alburq Castle       483
Apostates       985    Die Normannen       1,447
Wolves    2,059       Apostates : Alburq Castle       747
Wolves    2,212       Apostates : Alburq Castle       505
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 05, 2013, 12:33:27 pm
As i said, fixes are being worked on by the devs, just not functioning properly yet.

Good to see you agree not to take any wooden castles, since yesterday it was "not an option or a choice, we have to take it even it we take it 600 tickets at a time"
Changed your mind after last nights battles?

Wolves    1,830       Apostates       351
Grey Order    2,162       Apostates : Alburq Castle       483

Morales have been boosted the past weeks, activity in the eastern front is back.

Still see u have a problem with understanding texts Hobbit, try reading my post again - perhaps I should do a shorter version for you? Isnt english your native tongue?
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Haboe on August 05, 2013, 12:40:53 pm
Still see u have a problem with understanding texts Hobbit, try reading my post again - perhaps I should do a shorter version for you? Isnt english your native tongue?

I've read it, you wanna look for a solution. That solution is already there, its just not finished yet.
Seems like you are looking for a solution where defenders intentionally nerf themselves by not using basic game mechanics, that won't happen.

And no, english is not my native language, thanks for the compliment though.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 05, 2013, 12:45:03 pm
You are welcome, ur english is good I actually thought that you came from england. So have fun with your strategy then, this war is really going your way as usual  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 05, 2013, 01:26:25 pm
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Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 05, 2013, 01:33:03 pm
Im sorry Cymro, sometimes this forum takes the worst out of me - and to finish this (trying humor)- ur right my dad is stronger than Haboes dad :)

And, thankyou for your answer, Im looking forward to it
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Rantrex on August 05, 2013, 01:35:34 pm
Phi, terrain adventage is in thir war on apostates side, that's clear. Guess we haven't been expecting anything else than that, since defending something is way easier than attacking it. What the topic is about are castles which are unbalanced. The only way to change it is to rework all those maps (not only wooden castles).

In real life everyone besieging this castle would probably do it digging tunnels.

Also, there is need to separate normal damage from damage to constructions. I think splitting damage type into two is all about copying and changing some words.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 05, 2013, 03:18:56 pm
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Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 05, 2013, 04:21:55 pm
My hangover has gone but for some reason i'm pissed (not the drunken pissed!)

Let's start this off with your targets in mind.

Alburq Castle at this present time is of an extreme strategic importance for both sides, that is without a doubt fact. For us Mercs it is standing there as a beacon, an impregnable log that for us has raised our morale and has brought guys back to playing for us and raised activity substantially. Now to us Alburq has now turned into the Bane of the Wolves, for there have been several failed attempts to storm the walls. So for us it is a morale booster for us and our allies, it also temporarily puts your invasion on hold so we can build up other fortifications.

Now Alburq Castle to you is a pain in the arse to put it bluntly. You cannot risk having 6000+ troops threatening your rear if you decide to move onto other conquests because those troops could be used to attack you, your fiefs, or harass your men. So to you, you need it gone and under your control. Furthermore for us it allows us to attack north, east and south so we can cover 3 points of the compass with one castle hence why you need it gone.

As for the OP, catapults should be banned in castle defence. No, catapults/mangonels were used to defend and attack, for us it has worked very well, the only reason you are moaning about it, is because it makes it exceptionally difficult for you to attack the castle, but then any attack would always be costly no matter what you do. We have adapted our tactics to deal with your attacks, and surprisingly it has worked out for us. The thing you should be worried about is that as soon as you decided to attack my castle shit has gotten into gear, the Mercs have suddenly become an organized fighting force, no arguing on TS, no petty discussions, mixed with full concentration with the task in hand. (Minus my karaoke singing which Phase managed to record....) This has then worked in our favour seeing as we can now fight back with efficiency, for example the VVar battle where we were outnumbered 4 to 1 (450 v 1800) and we won because we had a damn good roster, yes the roster wasn't as full as it could have been for you or us but we managed to work together.

The thing that annoys me (aimed at OP) is that as soon as something doesn't go your way you suddenly complain about it and demand that to make it easier for you that we must be banned from using legitimate tactics to make sure our castle is defended. The same was made after the second battle where Kalp said Alburq Castle should be removed.

Now back to you Grandmom, i agree that wooden castle walls should be able to be destroyed, i agree with that wholeheartedly, for i am a player whom likes to play fair and give everyone a chance, being able to destroy the walls would be an advantage to you but it would still lead to a lot of attacks seeing as the terrain is very difficult to utilise. The surrounding hills provide cover for a catapult but the range you would have to shoot would be huge, furthermore we are atop a hill so our archers range and angle would make it difficult for any breaches you make. As soon as you breach the castle you have to run up steep hills peppered by arrows.

Now my solution to you of how to take Alburq would be to adapt your tactics, these last few days i have been planning attacks on Alburq ffrom all directions involving varying scenarios, a few would work if you had come up with them, but i have covered most avenues of attack now so i am ready for most possibilities, you asked for a discussion so let this post be the beginning.

I await your responses.

Thankyou sir Cymro,

I agree that Alburq is of great importance to both sides, to your side because it is and has been as I understand your "holy grail", to us its important because we want you gone from north of the river at Ismirala so we could use the bridge as a chokepoint for incoming attacks. This way, we (northern clans)could stay relatively unharmed in the north and focus on other things than defending villages. But Alburq in perticular isnt more valuable to us than Jeirbe Castle from that point of view, except for the defence value on Alburq then perhaps .

And the risk of having 6000 troops in Alburq and 12000? in Jerbe Castle behind us isnt what we would like if we venture of on new crusades, I agree. However, if we now pause our attacks, you would be just as stuck, since u cant risk of lowering your defence in these castles if we keep our northern armies in the north. So, with that logic Id say you are stuck in the north, in the middle(Ismirala/Tellrog castle) and in Dhirim. And since you cant connect the three without risking being attacked your trade suffers greatly - especially with Wercheg and Rivacheg gone from your hands (most S/D production on the map). 

And with the new clans in the north we dont need to defend all of the north alone, so the balance of grinders and naked troops should be pretty balanced there. But, your tactic has been defence from the beginning and it is working now  once you have gotten organised. Then we need to adapt to that, and we will.

My concern isnt Alburq castle itself, its wooden castles in general. Like I said before, I could agree to not even siege Alburq IF(read this word Haboe) we would come to an agreement on how to balance these castles a bit. Otherwise, this will be in the way of the game as I see it, you are not the only one with wooden castles. Someone is saying "forbid defenders using catapults" - well perhaps but that would be just making it easier for the attackers and not really be an agreement that both sides would go for - understandably. If we are to come to some sort of agreement it cant be just one side giving something - it never is when negotiating deals.

So, suggestions would look like something in the line of this(and please dont rage the suggestions they are merely there to point out HOW an agreement could be when finished):

- get rid of the catas in wooden castles and the attackers will give up laddering if using towers?

- attacker dont use forward spawn if defenders dont use catas?

Both sides give up something to get the balance back of the wooden castles, and if the devs fix it until next strat great, but why wait for them?

This really is a negotiation for the more experienced guys in this game, on both sides ofc, I am like I have said before pretty much a noob when it comes to battles/sieges. But, a bit of talk and giving and taking on both sides could make it a bit more balanced and by that the game would be more flexible on the map.

Could someone explain to me why noone builds 5 weaponracks as a defender, when its perfectly doable? I was asked by someone to do it when I lead the defence of Curaw but I didnt want to since noone else did - an agreement made by the community I think - and it works to imporve the game for everyone, even if any side could take advantage of the game being "broken" they dont. Same goes for ladders in sieges, how hard would it be to totally spawn ladders in defence so that teh attackers wouldnt be able to? Yet, noone does it.

Thanks for meeting me in this Cymro, perhaps this will lead nowhere and perhaps the devs will restart strat next week and with it - the changes needed. But we could just aswell try and work some things out cause I really dont see why we shouldnt.

Thanks Cymro, for responding in the way you did, and for your time spent even though you have a hangover, hope it will pass soon m8 :)







Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 05, 2013, 04:39:39 pm
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Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Strudog on August 05, 2013, 04:51:26 pm
The difference between the situations that you mention of weapon racks and catas, is that the weapon rack limit is not intentional and is a bug, and thats why people dont abuse it, catas in defence are not a bug but a counter to siege towers, why has no one complained about this before? Because Siege Towers have never been of strategic importance apart from this battle.

Catapults are the only fun i have in this game because i find the general fighting in strategus just a bore and pure grind, requires very little skill.

In terms of Mercs situation i agree with what Cymro said.
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Harpag on August 05, 2013, 05:08:06 pm
Grandmom, Cymro, You both have a lot of reasons, but why we must negotiate with you, since devs may divide limits for teams (not 1 for whole map) and in most general terms fix siege equipment?
These changes should be made ​​a long time ago, but right now it is very visible. Small siege tower mentioned earlier is a good example, which probably never work properly. Why?
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Lizard_man on August 05, 2013, 05:30:06 pm
Fuck peace! I'd rather be wiped off the map... :twisted:
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 05, 2013, 05:41:47 pm
(click to show/hide)

Dear Sir Cymro,

We arent interessted in peace negotiations since we have little to gain from it, strategically your position in this war is in the gutter, even if you have managed to defend Alburq castle a couple of times. You have still lost 3 cities, 1 castle and no less than 10 villages. Your trade is weak if not noneexisting.  Your lands have been ripped apart, divided, surrounded and you are pinched between several enemy clans, you cant hardly travel outside of your fiefs, your at war with 8-12 (guessing)clans and your former allies/vasalls are leaving you as we speak.

Our position is different, we are friends with those clans that are at war with you, we help them, we have free trade, we have enough armies and constantly buying/grinding new ones, we are organised on the map like a machine, we have an overflow with gold and gear. If we need to, we could strike with 10 armies in 4 days more or less anywhere in the east, and then come with reinforcements a couple of days later.

And Cymro, if circumstances were different I think you and me could get along just fine on the same side of this war, but thats not the situation now, and if we should sign that peace we would have been trashed at the first oppurtunity by your clan. So no, we are happy with the situation and our many friends in this war.

As for the sieges, well like I said those two examples were merely to point out how an agreement could be done, others could try and find solutions for it, those with more experience.

Strudog, I dont think the wooden walls not being able to brake is intentional either - meaning this is just something that isnt ready yet, much like for example the weaponrack situation. The key isnt the catapults here, the key is balancing the game ourselfs until devs do it properly later - like we have done with the weaponrack. And by the way, u shot me while I was jumping from a siegetower last siege, do your stones pass thure people or do they just stop when hitting for example old granmas? Nice shot by the way :)

Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 05, 2013, 06:00:58 pm
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Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 05, 2013, 06:20:01 pm
A castle and a village, don't be greedy! But i am not without conscience, the people of Jayek deserve to be reunited with their brothers in Alburq... SO i think everyone benefits if you erm... lend me Alburq just until the peasants can adjust...

I took on the mantle of Alburq due to Sili not wanting it :3
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Zaalback on August 05, 2013, 06:32:32 pm
Nah, mainly on the field  :wink:
A strategy like this takes heavy losses in the start, but it's paying off now.

Free Peasants of Fisdnar    1,757       Apostates : Fisdnar       1,061
Wolves    1,830       Apostates       351
Grey Order    2,162       Apostates : Alburq Castle       483
Apostates       985    Die Normannen       1,447
Wolves    2,059       Apostates : Alburq Castle       747
Wolves    2,212       Apostates : Alburq Castle       505

I don't get the point , all those victories are meaningless , remember that you're getting sieged , that's to say you're on an inferior position in this war. There's no way to bragg about a victory against some half-geared random players, i'd rather say that your performance was bad there. Same thing last night, it was a roster issue... not even related to your fighting-talent or whatever. You should rather copy-paste your score in the 20 last landbattles against Greys for example , or maybe the perfs in your latest sieges ? Oh i forgot  ....you didn't sieged anything yet :p.
Anyway those scores ain't good enough for the best faction of the game imo.
Dive back to Wercheg for example :/

I still loving you guys, but sometimes i can't get the reason of your pride in this war
...
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 05, 2013, 06:44:43 pm
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Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: GRANDMOM on August 05, 2013, 06:48:29 pm
Think Zaalback is refering to this battle:

Apostates       985    Die Normannen       1,447
Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 05, 2013, 06:58:17 pm
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Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: VVarlord on August 05, 2013, 08:17:53 pm
Where is Kinngrimm and his good sense when you need him to find a diplomatic route...


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Title: Re: Prohibit the catapult for the defenders
Post by: Zaalback on August 05, 2013, 09:19:57 pm
Bah calling any victory meaningless is absolute trash. Every victory means something, no matter how small or large it is. This just shows we are actually starting to fight back.

Zaalback the pride in this war is non-existant, it's a game if you take pride over winning on that or having pride you are in a war it's just sad and petty.

Maybe "pride" is not a right term for you as you're reading it at its first meaning  :rolleyes:. To simplify it, let's say that there's no point to bragg about victories or whatever according to your situation in this war.  :!:
Whatever, we'll see how you can impress on the battlefield in the future days  :) Good luck lads.