cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: wanteds on June 29, 2013, 01:39:37 pm

Title: New patch first thoughts
Post by: wanteds on June 29, 2013, 01:39:37 pm
ok here we go, I'll be the first to start QQ about ranged damage getting buffed and nudge kinda ruining the fun in 1 or 2 vs groups fights.

I was playing today on my alt which has 43 body armor 38 str and 12 IF and I was shocked as a bolt to my arm took more than 3/4 of my hp; and earlier than that  in a previous round a bolt took more than half my hp.
I mean wtf? seriously? Are you deliberately trying to ruin your own mod?
This could be a game breaker for me after almost 3 years of crpg...

About nudge all I can say is it is an unnecessary extra feature, tho fun to land one on your opponent but it reduces the fun of engaging in a fight vs multiple enemy where you could try to focus on your footwork and blocking/chambering all incoming swings etc etc which was lots of fun and adrenaline packed action, now its like one of them agi-builds face-hugs you, nudges you, bam nudge-stun, the kicks follow, and you're finished by the rest.

I don't know why was nudge introduced at all in battle and siege when kick was already available. Maybe its a means to dumb down the game for those who are new or those who can't get better at game as it is.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Torben on June 29, 2013, 01:42:41 pm
how about counter nudging mate.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on June 29, 2013, 01:51:03 pm
Need a proper item balance team that isn't biassed and plays the game

Huge ammo buff, damage buffs even for people who don't specialise into ranged (non-loomed), speed and accuracy buffs..Xbow buffs?

Swiss Halbard got -.05 weight...

Nudge is still a pointless addition to the game and now everyone has it.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: poikakoira on June 29, 2013, 01:59:36 pm
archery has been nerfed like 2 years and now first buff came out :D we deserve this buff!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on June 29, 2013, 02:00:25 pm
You were doing just fine. Skilled guys were raping melee.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: darmaster on June 29, 2013, 02:12:18 pm
You were doing just fine. Skilled guys were raping melee.

problem was unskilled players were raping melee.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Joker86 on June 29, 2013, 02:20:25 pm
I was playing today on my alt which has 43 body armor 38 str and 12 IF and I was shocked as a bolt to my arm took more than 3/4 of my hp; and earlier than that  in a previous round a bolt took more than half my hp.
I mean wtf? seriously? Are you deliberately trying to ruin your own mod?
This could be a game breaker for me after almost 3 years of crpg...

You know, I will never understand how someone in a game which is so much focused on melee fighting can decide to go ranged, but I have to admit that without ranged things would be much more boring, the battles would lack depth, and I also have to admit that the poor ranged players had been nerfed to shit.

I just want to point your attention to your own words. You said a single bolt took more than half or even more than 3/4 of your life. So actually you are saying that in a multiplayer game a weapon which fires a single shot every few seconds wounded you severely, needing probably two shots in a row to finish you off.

This actually seems right to me. I mean, you can't expect that crossbower needing three, four, five or even more bolts to kill yo, which would take more than half a minute if he does everything right and you do everything wrong.

I repeat myself yet another time, but the lack of a proper goal in battle mode ("Kill everyone and his mother" is not a proper goal) causes those problems you are having with ranged. And those problems have very, very little to do with how fast, how precise or with how much damage ranged shoots.

On the other hand you have to keep in mind that ranged are important for the gameplay and that you should keep them motivated, at least a bit. Having to shoot a single person five times with a crossbow to kill him can't be fun at all.

I am neither lobbying for or against ranged buffs. I just want the community to try to stay neutral, objective and also to put themselves into the point of view of their opponents.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Fips on June 29, 2013, 02:23:21 pm
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Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: jtobiasm on June 29, 2013, 02:26:54 pm
archery has been nerfed like 2 years and now first buff came out :D we deserve this buff!
This is a great day robin, we now even have more arrows so we can kite!
MORRRRRROOOOOOOOOO
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: poikakoira on June 29, 2013, 02:27:59 pm
MOROOOOOOOOOO MOROOOOOO :DD LETS RUN NEXT TO EACH OTHERS!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: tuttiritari on June 29, 2013, 02:28:28 pm
This is a great day robin, we now even have more arrows so we can kite!
MORRRRRROOOOOOOOOO

Nokia sauna finland perkeleeeeeee ::D:DD:D:D:DD:D:D:D:D:D::D:D:D:DD::D:D:D:D:D:D:
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Sparvico on June 29, 2013, 02:37:46 pm
This patch has added depth to the game. There are a few ranged stats that seem a little weird, but nothing in this patch has made ranged-melee hybrids any more viable then they were, it has simply given dedicated ranged (and hybrid ranged to some extent) a more level playing field. The fact that they can kill you easier adds challenge to the game, which is a good thing.

As for the nudges and shield bash, I think that adding them is excellent. They are not necessary, but they sure do make things a bit more complex, and quite a bit more fun imo. They also made it so you can't do the nudge-kick-hit combo, and that was really the only broken thing about nudge.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: wanteds on June 29, 2013, 02:50:30 pm
You know, I will never understand how someone in a game which is so much focused on melee fighting can decide to go ranged, but I have to admit that without ranged things would be much more boring, the battles would lack depth, and I also have to admit that the poor ranged players had been nerfed to shit.

I just want to point your attention to your own words. You said a single bolt took more than half or even more than 3/4 of your life. So actually you are saying that in a multiplayer game a weapon which fires a single shot every few seconds wounded you severely, needing probably two shots in a row to finish you off.

This actually seems right to me. I mean, you can't expect that crossbower needing three, four, five or even more bolts to kill yo, which would take more than half a minute if he does everything right and you do everything wrong.

I repeat myself yet another time, but the lack of a proper goal in battle mode ("Kill everyone and his mother" is not a proper goal) causes those problems you are having with ranged. And those problems have very, very little to do with how fast, how precise or with how much damage ranged shoots.

On the other hand you have to keep in mind that ranged are important for the gameplay and that you should keep them motivated, at least a bit. Having to shoot a single person five times with a crossbow to kill him can't be fun at all.

I am neither lobbying for or against ranged buffs. I just want the community to try to stay neutral, objective and also to put themselves into the point of view of their opponents.

Joker as you can see my build was very extreme on that character (38 str and 12 IF) and if a xbow do so much damage to me with a body shot, having 43 armor on body, then they can easily 1 shot anyone not even needing a headshot.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: zottlmarsch on June 29, 2013, 03:01:11 pm
''You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.''
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Molly on June 29, 2013, 03:04:42 pm
For me it just screams "let's annihilate low armour agi builds with a nice ranged buff!"

Haven't played for nearly a month... don't see a point in starting it now
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Prpavi on June 29, 2013, 03:06:53 pm
BUFF RANGED!!!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: EyeBeat on June 29, 2013, 03:07:32 pm
Love this patch so much. 

Makes shielder vs shielder fights way less boring.  I love it!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: XyNox on June 29, 2013, 03:17:18 pm
I just played on EU1 and, as after every patch, people rage for their lifes. Its funny to read "OMG MW LONGBOW MW BODKINS DOES SO MUCH DAMAGE NOW WTFBBQ GOOD JOKE DEVS" when it has exactly the same damage values as pre patch  :rolleyes:

The one thing I am REALLLY looking forward to with the range buff is that this mindless hold-W-spam-charge-gank finally gets to an end. Now that you dont need 10 gens of archery experience and a high level character with fully loomed equipment in order to be a considerable threat as an archer, melees have no choice left but to adapt and invent actual strategies, as in TEAMPLAY to win the round. No more 2h/pole hero gankblobs that could rapetrain their way through maps without giving a fuck about the average enemy rangedplayer. Who knows, maybe players will even consider COOPERATING now in form of cavcharges or shieldformations to counter the enemy ranged formations and protect their allies. Hmmm, makes me feel warm inside.

Whether its too much of a buff, hard to tell right now. It might be wise to wait until the initial rage wave is over before drawing conclsion.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Panos on June 29, 2013, 03:24:47 pm
I just played on EU1 and, as after every patch, people rage for their lifes. Its funny to read "OMG MW LONGBOW MW BODKINS DOES SO MUCH DAMAGE NOW WTFBBQ GOOD JOKE DEVS" when it has exactly the same damage values as pre patch  :rolleyes:

The one thing I am REALLLY looking forward to with the range buff is that this mindless hold-W-spam-charge-gank finally gets to an end. Now that you dont need 10 gens of archery experience and a high level character with fully loomed equipment in order to be a considerable threat as an archer, melees have no choice left but to adapt and invent actual strategies, as in TEAMPLAY to win the round. No more 2h/pole hero gankblobs that could rapetrain their way through maps without giving a fuck about the average enemy rangedplayer. Who knows, maybe players will even consider COOPERATING now in form of cavcharges or shieldformations to counter the enemy ranged formations and protect their allies. Hmmm, makes me feel warm inside.

Whether its too much of a buff, hard to tell right now. It might be wise to wait until the initial rage wave is over before drawing conclsion.

shut your whore mouth ranged my old friend
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 29, 2013, 03:28:56 pm
Dont go on eu1 without a shield.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: sF_Guardian on June 29, 2013, 03:30:27 pm
Seriously, this 4 more damage on non-loomed Arbalest and 2 more damage to non-loomed Steel Bolts are ~6% more damage.
This can't be too gamebraking and taking it as a reason to whine about ranged is just silly.
The stuff will calm, less archery and crossbow stf's will be on the battlefield and the QQ will flow normally again.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: _GTX_ on June 29, 2013, 03:31:37 pm
So this will be fun. I never played eu1 because of the ranged having alot of control there, now i cant even imagine it. How is the strategus fights btw? Because ranged has always dominated that, i would like to see that now :P.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Panos on June 29, 2013, 03:31:45 pm
hurr hurr, joined EU1, walked 15 meters, got shot 2 times in a row, died with 6 if and 66 body armour!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Fips on June 29, 2013, 03:34:52 pm
Good lord Panos, calm your tits already.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: XyNox on June 29, 2013, 04:00:05 pm
Woah guys calm down, I was merely daydreaming. We all know that melees will not tolerate having to adapt in any way. Obviously the next step is to lobby the shit out of the forum until devs revert the ranged buff, right ?  :wink:
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on June 29, 2013, 04:03:08 pm
Woah guys calm down, I was merely daydreaming. We all know that melees will not tolerate having to adapt in any way. Obviously the next step is to lobby the shit out of the forum until devs revert the ranged buff, right ?  :wink:

We should retire our guys, sell looms and make a big QQ thread were we promise to leave the game and never come back? Where have I seen that before..
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: MrShine on June 29, 2013, 04:05:17 pm
Literally the only masterwork xbow/bow items that got a damage buff are the low tier bows (which got an overhaul in general) and some of the cut damage arrows.  All the masterworks we're used to (MW crossbow, MW arbalest, MW heavy xbow, MW horn bow, MW rus bow, MW longbow, MW bodkin arrows, MW steel bolts) have no change to their base damage. 

I can't wait to see how many more people start whining about how ranged damage got buffed when it actually didn't.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on June 29, 2013, 04:11:27 pm
Average damage will have gone up since not everyone had looms. There will be more ranged because the barrier for entry to decent damage is removed

Speed, ammo, accuracy and missile speed got increased (that in itself is a direct damage buff I believe). It was at least made easier to land hits, which can be seen as a damage increase

Cut arrows got damage buff

Depends how this armour tweak was implemented though, could be that people take less damage but not sure how it was implemented yet

Also check out some of the stats on lower PD bows. Decent damage and low PD requirement will mean more agi kiting archers
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tydeus on June 29, 2013, 04:12:16 pm
Literally the only masterwork xbow/bow items that got a damage buff are the low tier bows (which got an overhaul in general) and some of the cut damage arrows.  All the masterworks we're used to (MW crossbow, MW arbalest, MW heavy xbow, MW horn bow, MW rus bow, MW longbow, MW bodkin arrows, MW steel bolts) have no change to their base damage. 

I can't wait to see how many more people start whining about how ranged damage got buffed when it actually didn't.
Preposterous! Get this logic out of here!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tore on June 29, 2013, 04:16:28 pm
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Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: XyNox on June 29, 2013, 04:20:41 pm
We should retire our guys, sell looms and make a big QQ thread were we promise to leave the game and never come back? Where have I seen that before..

Uhh ... wait a sec I think I know who you are talking about ... oh right I got it, you are talking about Leshma.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: cmp on June 29, 2013, 04:21:39 pm
shut your whore mouth ranged my old friend

Well, looks like you've gone full retard again (and I'm not referring just to this post, but also your attitude lately). Unfortunately, given your history, it's not something you can do.
Good luck with your next account, maybe it will finally be the one.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on June 29, 2013, 04:24:04 pm
fuck you

he just stated sth why would some1 perma ban him for that
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tore on June 29, 2013, 04:24:17 pm
Sigh...

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Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: darmaster on June 29, 2013, 04:29:05 pm
Well, looks like you've gone full retard again (and I'm not referring just to this post, but also your attitude lately). Unfortunately, given your history, it's not something you can do.
Good luck with your next account, maybe it will finally be the one.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: karasu on June 29, 2013, 04:31:29 pm
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Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: XyNox on June 29, 2013, 04:34:05 pm
Well, looks like you've gone full retard again (and I'm not referring just to this post, but also your attitude lately). Unfortunately, given your history, it's not something you can do.
Good luck with your next account, maybe it will finally be the one.

I appreciate your administrative measures cmp but if I may interject, I did not take any offence by him and there is no demand for punishing Panos on my behalf. I took it merely as a joke.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Uther Pendragon on June 29, 2013, 04:34:14 pm
New patch
Forum nerdrage
Panos got permabanned once again

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Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: darmaster on June 29, 2013, 04:34:21 pm
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i can't breathe i can't breathe goddamit ahahah we need to counter it with another great gif

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Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Joker86 on June 29, 2013, 04:59:19 pm
While I indeed was fed up with Panos' comments about 2hd and ranged, and in general dislike that "clique" of high post count members who openly act completely biased, insulting and discriminating against ranged focused members, I think a permaban is too much for this outburst of full retardness. I mean, it's Panos, if you read his name backwards it says "I just went full retard", what can you expect from him?

How about you give him the chance to get the permaban lifted by writing an essay about why ranged is important for the game, why it is important to keep ranged players motivated, and about how everyone is free to enjoy the game the way he wants to?

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Support me in this, folks!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Lannistark on June 29, 2013, 05:02:51 pm
For fuck's holy lord's sake, Panos banned again? What did he do this time; are you telling me just for a slight temper slip-of the dude is getting banned again? I must admit I saw this coming, a new fucked up patch bringing a wave of nerd rage and complaints was the perfect panorama for this to happen.

I'll never understand how shit works in this place.

Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: _GTX_ on June 29, 2013, 05:05:52 pm
How many times did Panos get banned? xD (Serious question)
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Akryn on June 29, 2013, 05:11:56 pm
I mean, it's Panos, if you read his name backwards it says "I just went full retard", what can you expect from him?

...it says sonaP.  :)

I agree though, it's Panos, take everything with a pinch of salt. Give him a chance to explain, everyone knows he wasn't being serious. No need to instantly crucify him.

Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: wanteds on June 29, 2013, 05:24:34 pm
Woah guys calm down, I was merely daydreaming. We all know that melees will not tolerate having to adapt in any way. Obviously the next step is to lobby the shit out of the forum until devs revert the ranged buff, right ?  :wink:
You gotta tell me, whats ur idea of "adapt", cause I see 2 options: one is all melee go shielder and polearm and 2h be extinct which is not what ppl want even if u dream of that, the other is sacrifice all mobility and speed and put to flesh to be more survivable like I did (0 ath, all points to flesh) which still gets 2 shotted by xbow, body shots, no headshot. So what the fuck is on your mind, please share it with us.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Thomek on June 29, 2013, 05:27:02 pm
Notice that excellent anti-archer throwing weapons are now 0 slot.. :)
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tibe on June 29, 2013, 05:28:38 pm
(click to show/hide)
This would be funny. Althou I bet its gonna be hard for him. He would go into swearmode kinda like Tourettes here:
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 29, 2013, 05:32:52 pm
Ahahahaha cRPG you so silly.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: djavo on June 29, 2013, 05:33:45 pm
This is too harsh, no matter how much senor Panos got on someones nerves constantly or not.

Regarding patch, remove item balancer from premises.


Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Nihtgenga on June 29, 2013, 05:35:48 pm
Free Panos!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: StonedSteel on June 29, 2013, 05:35:58 pm
ill talk about the patch when i notice the differences...but for now



FREE PANOS!!!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Akynos on June 29, 2013, 05:39:04 pm
I appreciate your administrative measures cmp but if I may interject, I did not take any offence by him and there is no demand for punishing Panos on my behalf. I took it merely as a joke.

Probably the most decent and gentleman-like person on this forum.
From now on, you will get a free + for every post.

Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: XyNox on June 29, 2013, 06:07:24 pm
Probably the most decent and gentleman-like person on this forum.
From now on, you will get a free + for every post.

Thank you very much

No matter how much we internet people like to troll because of comforting anonymity, in this case I think its the very least I have to do.

I just took a long break from the game and the community and had enough time to cool down and get some distance :)
In the end we all wanna have good time online after work, school or whatever, no matter if my old friendcher, gayvalry or inmy old friendtry :D

I think Panos is a funny guy and I dont mind him raging but well, cmp has a point when he says that this is by far not the first case of him doing so :(
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: woody on June 29, 2013, 06:15:16 pm
Hey nudge for all with timer is great!

Good to see we can learn from nintendo combat games. Dont worry if move makes sense if is too powerful put a nonsensical timer on limit rather than actually making it vaguely balanced.

When will we add:

9 foot long greatswords with 2 foot wide blades
Spiky armour
Hit x then x then x then g and h together for spinning death move.

Lets also add magic, fireballs would be great. But lets put a timer on it for cooldown of powers so it works as well as nudge.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Kafein on June 29, 2013, 06:25:59 pm
Please Xynox, stop referring to these imaginary "formations", "teamwork" and "strategies" when nobody was ever able to come up with actual things to do in a real situation, besides "hiding somewhere with the vain hope someone else will kill the archers".

Without those terms being defined, it makes about as much sense as saying archers should be nerfed because unicorns.

What I get from this patch :

- 1h nerfed, 2h and 4d polearms mainly untouched ? (the opposite would have been nice, someone mixed it up)
- missile speed increased ? (if this is actually the case, I'm sad. I remember paul said something very sensible about reducing projectile speed and increasing accuracy and now we go in the opposite, malevolent and retarded direction)
- non-loomed ranged buffed (I don't really care but I'm concerned at an increase in ranged pop. If there was a way to regulate it, that is, a class that counters it effectively it wouldn't be a real problem but there's none)


also unban panos already, this is ridiculous
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Aseldo on June 29, 2013, 06:56:34 pm
Arbalest people are 1 shotting left and right. Seriously op now
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: sF_Guardian on June 29, 2013, 07:01:41 pm
Panos got perma'd?
Seriously, taking this post as the final reason is pure mother******* bullshit.
Greatz on that one, cmp.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Malaclypse on June 29, 2013, 07:03:47 pm
Arbalest people are 1 shotting left and right. Seriously op now

They were already doing that to me, glad that more health havers are getting a taste of it finally.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: StonedSteel on June 29, 2013, 07:04:54 pm
Hey nudge for all with timer is great!

Good to see we can learn from nintendo combat games. Dont worry if move makes sense if is too powerful put a nonsensical timer on limit rather than actually making it vaguely balanced.

When will we add:

9 foot long greatswords with 2 foot wide blades
Spiky armour
Hit x then x then x then g and h together for spinning death move.

Lets also add magic, fireballs would be great. But lets put a timer on it for cooldown of powers so it works as well as nudge.

ROFL, +1 for u
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: sF_Guardian on June 29, 2013, 07:10:10 pm
Arbalest people are 1 shotting left and right. Seriously op now

6% dude, 6 percent. Didnt experience many oneshots today, it just semms like I oneshot archers more often, which is great.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Kafein on June 29, 2013, 07:16:49 pm
6% dude, 6 percent. Didnt experience many oneshots today, it just semms like I oneshot archers more often, which is great.

You don't seem to realise that with armor on, those 6% are in fact much much more ? Also, usually people were left with very few HP after an arbalest shot before this patch. A very slight difference is enough to be the difference between being twoshot and oneshot.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Thomek on June 29, 2013, 07:23:42 pm
Yeah.. well I can guestimmate I got 1 shot by arbalesters 30% of the time from full HP. The rest of the time I was left with very little hp left. I can expect to be one-shot twice as often at least now.. :P

I think arbalests was the last thing that needed a buff!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: justme on June 29, 2013, 07:25:07 pm
archery has been nerfed like 2 years and now first buff came out :D we deserve this buff!

why u deserve it? as already u  oneshoot me in full plate..
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: darmaster on June 29, 2013, 07:26:55 pm
why u deserve it? as already u  oneshoot me in full plate..

bah archers always result victims in this community :l even now they could complain.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Gudari on June 29, 2013, 08:13:05 pm
Not pretending to be a victim, or complaining against the new patch or the previous nerfs to archers. I'd like to point out that the deadly arbalest costs as much as 18730 and 1300 upkeep. Same as the best 2h weapon aviable.

The arbalest of course is a ELITE weapon that should kill and penetrate plate armour It was feared in real life and IMO should be feared in the game. But think on the price (1300 upkeep). I think that's quite a lot.

Other types of crossbow (I've got well-made crossbow and steel bolts) don't kill people in one shot. Even the less armoured.


BTW. Only thing I miss in the game is cavalry. Armoured knights are so scarce to see...
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Normanguy on June 29, 2013, 08:17:34 pm
All you need now is some new good gears and weapons to gobwith a new patch !! :D

Would be even better then :)
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Count_Grishnackh on June 29, 2013, 08:21:44 pm
What the hell is a silver btw?
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Oberyn on June 29, 2013, 08:22:54 pm
Quick question, does this mean that HX were, in fact, buffed?
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: pingpong on June 29, 2013, 08:23:28 pm
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THANKS FOR RUINING MY MW BOW chadz!

whats the point of looming it to +3 if you only get +1 to accuracy and +2 to speed???!!

I DEMAND REFUND, IN LOOMPOINTS!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: StonedSteel on June 29, 2013, 08:30:42 pm
What the hell is a silver btw?

Silver is your strat gold.

And money asked for in strat battles will now be silver, not that people really asked for money anyways



Posted by: Oberyn
« on: Today at 08:22:54 pm »

    Insert Quote


Quick question, does this mean that HX were, in fact, buffed?

^ wasn't that the class that was voted most OP in that poll?
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tydeus on June 29, 2013, 08:34:55 pm
Quick question, does this mean that HX were, in fact, buffed?
Not at all.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Nehvar on June 29, 2013, 08:39:33 pm
You know, as douche-y as Panos can be sometimes, he only said what all melee players were thinking.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Osiris on June 29, 2013, 08:42:56 pm
thing i liked most about being a shielder is when you were being ganked 3-4 vs 1 and you could move around switch targets etc. just tried it today and i just got bumped around :(
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tore on June 29, 2013, 08:52:38 pm
BUFF WOODEN STICK 2013
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tydeus on June 29, 2013, 09:07:31 pm
Someone do some basic math for me, maybe I'm retarded.  :rolleyes:

If armor effectiveness was changed from being 45%-100%, to being 70-75%, does this not mean that the maximum possible damage was lowered? So 1 shots are actually less likely than they were before, unless you're wearing paper.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Legs on June 29, 2013, 09:27:48 pm
A hotfix is badly needed.

I don't know what you were thinking, just dumping a bunch of big changes all at once like this.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 29, 2013, 09:39:14 pm
http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/0-3-0-1-winners-and-losers/msg814966/#msg814966

My only comment on this.

Also, Nudges seem wonkey with a shield. You might want to look into it more.

IE, if you start a nudge JUST before someone swings(as a shielder), you take damage right there and your nudge never goes through, even if it would hit. It could be ping, or otherwise, but maybe check it out.

Seen it multiple times using the defensive nudge with shield up. Doesn't seem to matter in the other scenarios, they seem to hit and not get canceled like this.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Thomek on June 29, 2013, 09:55:39 pm
Just coming in here to remind you that these guys work for free, and if we want to see any further changes in the future, we have to keep them motivated. Being putting too much spice on your comments won't serve any purpose..

I think calm, reasonable people have a much greater chance of reaching through to the devs than shouting kids..

*Although I think a decrypted, clear information about the intention and consequences of the changes might put out some flames..

Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Leshma on June 29, 2013, 09:59:34 pm
The beauty of balance discussion is that you can throw a suggestion in there and be sure it will be implemented at some point in the future :lol:

I suggested archery buff and 0 slot Italian Falchion a year ago when I wanted to respec into OP level 35 archer/1h hybrid. Too bad I wasn't patient enough.

Edit: We should be glad our devs learn fast. You see, there's no such thing as perfect or even good balance. Too many variables to get it right. You know what those who are considered the best in industry when it comes to balance in video games do? (I'm talking about Blizzard Ent.) They create a illusion of perfect balance and they do it by overhauling the game every few months. That way community gets an impression that dev team works hard and trying to achieve that holy grail called perfect balance. Truth is that game is unbalanced most of the time. But when you look at from a time distance everything was indeed balanced because in two years every class got it's 3 OP months which makes all classes equally balanced for two year period.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Legs on June 29, 2013, 10:08:46 pm
I agree that bows were underpowered before but I always thought that it was intentional, so that 'archer' wouldn't become the default class for new players.

The problem I have is with all these new nudges. They're completely ridiculous. I mean, you can even nudge with a crossbow out.

Also, the regular "Bow" is OP (better than Rus bow wut) and kicks are broken. Instead of kicking you just do this weird little stumble/headbutt thing.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Algarn on June 30, 2013, 12:42:39 am
About Panos , I want to say he's a bit dumb sometimes ... But who isn't dumb ? And Panos made goods things for this community (like successes , or an explanation of graphic options of WSE2, etc ... ). That's like if I would say : cRPG is shit because it's hard to play with a lot of experimented players or stuff like it ... I think this ban is ridiculous because Panos "insulted" XyNox , like others archers or 2handers ... Everyone knows Panos wanted a crusade against 2h and archers . So , Free Panos !
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Xhandor on June 30, 2013, 12:14:58 pm
Well I appreciate the nudge for all - but the timer is a bit harsh...5 sec no nudge no kick is a bit much - I know it was done to avoid getting kick/nudge/knockdown combos - but well most of the players are not able to do that anyway...

Archer buff is great -  makes it more interesting for new players I think...

The steel-bolt buff was unnecessary I think - most of the high level players dont have to think so much about money....So the increased repairs wont hurt them that much. I guess I'll have to prepare for more oneshots now - annoying but well if there are not too many of them it is endurable.

Making the Italian Falchion 0 slots must have been a great mistake...What about the other small 1h weapons then? Cannot think of any sound reason for that decision (maybe bribing the balancer?).










Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on June 30, 2013, 01:14:09 pm
Just coming in here to remind you that these guys work for free, and if we want to see any further changes in the future, we have to keep them motivated. Being putting too much spice on your comments won't serve any purpose..

I think calm, reasonable people have a much greater chance of reaching through to the devs than shouting kids..

*Although I think a decrypted, clear information about the intention and consequences of the changes might put out some flames..

They might do it for free, but there have been plenty of guys that put themselves forward for item balancing who also would do it for free. If we had a proper group of regular players that represented different parts of the playerbase we probably wouldn't have had all these ranged buffs. Look:

http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/restructured-crpg-hierarchy-positions-open!/

Do we have around 5 guys that discuss and vote on item unbalance? Or was it mostly a couple guys between themselves?
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: HappyPhantom on June 30, 2013, 01:21:38 pm
You gotta tell me, whats ur idea of "adapt", cause I see 2 options: one is all melee go shielder and polearm and 2h be extinct which is not what ppl want even if u dream of that, the other is sacrifice all mobility and speed and put to flesh to be more survivable like I did (0 ath, all points to flesh) which still gets 2 shotted by xbow, body shots, no headshot. So what the fuck is on your mind, please share it with us.
Try dodging.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: cmp on June 30, 2013, 01:56:46 pm
They might do it for free, but there have been plenty of guys that put themselves forward for item balancing who also would do it for free. If we had a proper group of regular players that represented different parts of the playerbase we probably wouldn't have had all these ranged buffs.

Yes, definitely. What did you have in mind? 3 balancers from the two handers playerbase and 2 from polearms?
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Oberyn on June 30, 2013, 02:02:36 pm
Take all the most outspoken and raging lobbyists and put them on an item balance commitee. I doubt they'll accomplish anything but at least it'll contain/divert the butthurt.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on June 30, 2013, 02:14:38 pm
Yes, definitely. What did you have in mind? 3 balancers from the two handers playerbase and 2 from polearms?

Lol. Actually don't mind if the players are regular in battle, understand battle gameplay, play at a decent level and aren't too biased.

The way I see it M&B is a melee centric game. The ranged is almost tacked on with the depth is has. Balance around the strengths of the gameplay or at least have decent representation from a melee/cav perspective
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tydeus on June 30, 2013, 02:52:11 pm
Lol. Actually don't mind if the players are regular in battle, understand battle gameplay, play at a decent level and aren't too biased.

The way I see it M&B is a melee centric game. The ranged is almost tacked on with the depth is has. Balance around the strengths of the gameplay or at least have decent representation from a melee/cav perspective
Glad to see I fit all of the important criteria and still was the one to suggest the ranged changes(Shik suggested the 0slot throwing stuff months ago, and admittedly was the one who said we should probably address the problem now). Melee is easily my favorite part of this game, it's the most fulfilling. Yet somehow, even with me enjoying my melee 2h/polearm hero characters the most, I still made the suggestions for the majority of the ranged changes(really, most of the ranged weapons got a side-grade, the ones that were legitimate buffs, were absolutely needed). Is it more damage? Only on the 2 worst bows in the game. Is archery overall more accurate with faster projectiles? Yes, still not even close to the projectile speed or accuracy that most crossbows have though.

I call this not being biased, dunno about you though.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Prpavi on June 30, 2013, 03:07:46 pm
Yes, definitely. What did you have in mind? 3 balancers from the two handers playerbase and 2 from polearms?


How about all the balacing team agreeing to changes.

That was the idea? 4 votes or it doesn't get implemented/changed right?
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: ToxicKilla on June 30, 2013, 03:12:13 pm
Glad to see I fit all of the important criteria and still was the one to suggest the ranged changes(Shik suggested the 0slot throwing stuff months ago, and admittedly was the one who said we should probably address the problem now). Melee is easily my favorite part of this game, it's the most fulfilling. Yet somehow, even with me enjoying my melee 2h/polearm hero characters the most, I still made the suggestions for the majority of the ranged changes(really, most of the ranged weapons got a side-grade, the ones that were legitimate buffs, were absolutely needed). Is it more damage? Only on the 2 worst bows in the game. Is archery overall more accurate with faster projectiles? Yes, still not even close to the projectile speed or accuracy that most crossbows have though.

I call this not being biased, dunno about you though.

In my opinion increasing both projectile speed and accuracy is not the way to go. Lower projectile speed and higher accuracy makes things based more upon skill and, for me at least when I play my longbow char, I find it much more fulfilling to land hits at long distance where you must aim quite a ways above the enemy, although it'd be nice to have some way to see where your arrows are landing so you can adjust. I'm not sure if it is possible but lower projectile speed, slightly higher accuracy, some way to judge where your arrows are landing, increased damage at longer distances and perhaps a small damage/accuracy bonus when grouped with other archers may lead to archery in this game being more realistic and hopefully more fun for everyone.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: cmp on June 30, 2013, 03:16:03 pm

How about all the balacing team agreeing to changes.

That was the idea? 4 votes or it doesn't get implemented/changed right?

No, it was 3/4. Now there are just 3 balancers, so it's 2/3.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: djavo on June 30, 2013, 03:17:58 pm
5 man team where every member has a veto.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: isatis on June 30, 2013, 03:22:13 pm
5 man team where every member has a veto.

that's ONU security council man

and on the throwing 0 slot... why the rocks aren't 0 slot?????
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on June 30, 2013, 03:24:24 pm
Glad to see I fit all of the important criteria and still was the one to suggest the ranged changes(Shik suggested the 0slot throwing stuff months ago, and admittedly was the one who said we should probably address the problem now). Melee is easily my favorite part of this game, it's the most fulfilling. Yet somehow, even with me enjoying my melee 2h/polearm hero characters the most, I still made the suggestions for the majority of the ranged changes(really, most of the ranged weapons got a side-grade, the ones that were legitimate buffs, were absolutely needed). Is it more damage? Only on the 2 worst bows in the game. Is archery overall more accurate with faster projectiles? Yes, still not even close to the projectile speed or accuracy that most crossbows have though.

I call this not being biased, dunno about you though.

When you're submitting changes to someone who is openly criticising melee players at seemingly every opportunity and talks about how he wants to buff ranged then theres a conflict of interest straight away, especially if you're having to come up with the changes yourself. I just think there needs to be a group with as little biases as possible who aren't influenced by anyone on a war path against melee players.

This was a huge buff for ranged btw, don't kid. Way cheaper, more ammo, easier shots, lower PD required for the damage (more agi kiting), cut buff and the biggest one, no need to specialise into the class so any random joe can do the sort of damage reserved for certain individuals that spent millions of gold on looms. So the average damage from the average archer will be a lot higher with not needing looms. This all leads into there being more ranged. The cost, the ease of the shots, the stronger low PD bows (safer via kiting) and not needing to spend gold on looms. Also weren't there xbow damage buffs in the ammo at least?

Anyway there were a few good options in that thread: http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/%28applications%29-item-balancers/

Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Prpavi on June 30, 2013, 03:34:51 pm
No, it was 3/4. Now there are just 3 balancers, so it's 2/3.

fair enough, my bad.

but still the balancig team obviously completley ignored some recent topics and polls about current situation on the battlefield. I don't know who the balancing squad is ( except Paul whose behavior and posts I'd rather not comment about ) but they do seem quite detatched from the situation on the battlefield, atleast Battle mode. Maybe I am the one who is detatched, I'll leave that posibility open also.

I do understand cRPG now is sort of a testing ground, lets say an alpha before alpha for the new game to figure out what would work what wouldn't in the game (nudge), just making that clear to the community would make the ammount of rage and disappointment considerably lower.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tibe on June 30, 2013, 03:38:01 pm
Take all the most outspoken and raging lobbyists and put them on an item balance commitee. I doubt they'll accomplish anything but at least it'll contain/divert the butthurt.

Indeed. I wouldnt seriuslly know a single person in this entire community I would dare to put in the balancer position. You may all think that you are all qualified cause you play this 24/7, play lots of other games and mybe even know some basis of programing. Newsflash! You are all bloody wrong(including me) atleast 40% of the time when it comes to discussions about gamebalancing.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: cmp on June 30, 2013, 03:43:50 pm
When you're submitting changes to someone who is openly criticising melee players at seemingly every opportunity and talks about how he wants to buff ranged then theres a conflict of interest straight away, especially if you're having to come up with the changes yourself. I just think there needs to be a group with as little biases as possible who aren't influenced by anyone on a war path against melee players.

You know, it's probably the exact opposite: you are so strongly biased towards one playstyle that you see "enemies" everywhere. There is no balancer "on a war path against melee players", that's just your imagination.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tydeus on June 30, 2013, 03:47:54 pm
When you're submitting changes to someone who is openly criticising melee players at seemingly every opportunity and talks about how he wants to buff ranged then theres a conflict of interest straight away, especially if you're having to come up with the changes yourself.
Who exactly is it that I'm submitting ranged buffs to that is "openly criticising melee players at seemingly every opporunity?" Certainly not shik, he was removed before this was proposed. It's not as if I stick to one thing in crpg, I constantly play different builds where several of those consist of different types of ranged weapons, both hybrid and dedicated(except for dedicated throwers, they're shit and don't deserve buffs). 8-)

I just think there needs to be a group with as little biases as possible who aren't influenced by anyone on a war path against melee players.
War path against ranged players is surely fine though, I agree.  :rolleyes:

This was a huge buff for ranged btw, don't kid. Way cheaper, more ammo, easier shots, lower PD required for the damage (more agi kiting), cut buff and the biggest one, no need to specialise into the class so any random joe can do the sort of damage reserved for certain individuals that spent millions of gold on looms. So the average damage from the average archer will be a lot higher with not needing looms
Cheaper in that you can actually expect to not be utterly useless without looms now. Cheaper in that the lowest tier bows might not be complete dog trash. Arrows and highest tier bows are the same price, Steel Bolts actually doubled in price, so it's definitely not cheaper for crossbowmen. Lower PD req for the lowest tier composite bows. It may very well be that the average archer's damage has been increased, but it's not going to be by much, as most players already had looms. It's not a huge buff for ranged, it's a huge buff for shitty bows that weren't used at all.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on June 30, 2013, 04:00:58 pm
You know, it's probably the exact opposite: you are so strongly biased towards one playstyle that you see "enemies" everywhere. There is no balancer "on a war path against melee players", that's just your imagination.

I'm not going digging out quotes, but I think it would be quite apparent who i'm talking about. Its pretty obvious if you spend time reading here, favourite terms being melee lobyists/retards.

Tydeus buffing damage on xbows is insane, adding a little extra gold won't matter when you're getting extra damage when we're talking small gold increases
You overbuffed the underutilised bows, and the new Bow is ridiculous (and I know its supposed to be 28)

I love how you try to paint me as only being interested in my class when i'm not. I don't say "buff my polearms", do what you need to with balancing between 2 handers, shielders, cav, poles etc, but this screwing around with ranged gets old. Screwing over the gameplay for everyone except ranged gets old
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: cmp on June 30, 2013, 04:10:05 pm
I'm not going digging out quotes, but I think it would be quite apparent who i'm talking about. Its pretty obvious if you spend time reading here, favourite terms being melee lobyists/retards.

I know exactly who you're talking about, that's why I wrote what I wrote. :wink:
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on June 30, 2013, 04:15:10 pm
Well if you can lump non-ranged who talk about ranged balance into a "retard and melee lobyist group" to justify not listening to balance arguments from a whole section of the playerbase you will keep on buffing ranged. This is why we need impartial representation. I would take a shielder, cav player, doesn't have to be 2 hander or pole at all if they understood battle gameplay to a decent level.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: IG_Saint on June 30, 2013, 04:18:59 pm
Screwing over the gameplay for everyone except ranged gets old

Yes, where are the good old days where every patch would screw over the gameplay for nobody except ranged?! What happened to the master plan of nerfing ranged into the ground by adding some small nerf every patch? The dev team has changed, they're no longer the people I thought they were...

If you really think ranged (especially archers) didn't deserve this rather small buff you're just an elitist melee jerk.

(except for dedicated throwers, they're shit and don't deserve buffs).

Omg, biased item balancer! Injustice! Buff throwers 2013!
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: the real god emperor on June 30, 2013, 04:19:39 pm
After the no needed nerfs on archery, this buff just made them balanced imo. I am playing as archer now, and i see melee guys can still enjoy their abusement, archers do not troll them at all. they just kill  :twisted:
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on June 30, 2013, 04:25:20 pm
Yes, where are the good old days where every patch would screw over the gameplay for nobody except ranged?! What happened to the master plan of nerfing ranged into the ground by adding some small nerf every patch? The dev team has changed, they're no longer the people I thought they were...

If you really think ranged (especially archers) didn't deserve this rather small buff you're just an elitist melee jerk.

Omg, biased item balancer! Injustice! Buff throwers 2013!

They never effectively balanced ranged. They took it from crazy 2 shotting down to more managable levels, but always with a little buff at the same time to compensate. Headshot buff, armour limit before wpf is affected, missile speeds/accuracies. Ranged should be very weak by themselves, but strong as a group. People seem to think they should be strong 1vs many though, as they are when they deal damage to any target from range
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Gristle on June 30, 2013, 04:29:01 pm
I currently use a Heavy Crossbow, Steel Bolts, and a Broad Short Sword (all Masterwork of course). My gear was mostly nerfed with nothing buffed.

I like this patch. I'm happy that everyone has nudges now, while their effectiveness was greatly reduced. It feels fair. I don't mind the archery changes, especially with the armor changes that were also implemented. It really hasn't been a problem. I think it's actually harder for them if you're not wearing cloth. Too many melee players completely lose their shit whenever ranged gets any positive changes. They forget how often its been nerfed the second it gets any kind of buff.

I'm pretty sure people thought Paul was biased against ranged about a year ago. You call a few melee guys whiners and, again, they lose their shit.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: wanteds on June 30, 2013, 05:15:27 pm
Grumbs, Don't waste your breath mate.
When you object here that some class is op, they read "buff my own class"...
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Paul on June 30, 2013, 05:28:05 pm
When the (very small) headshot buff was introduced there was also a massive nerf for hitting limbs or even shoulders added. Even a torso hit does less damage with it. The damage loss is way more severe than for melee who got more moderate multipliers there. I'm pretty sure that the average ranged damage got lowered a lot with that.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Rebelyell on June 30, 2013, 05:30:13 pm
Grumbs, Don't waste your breath mate.
When you object here that some class is op, they read "buff my own class"...
he is
mad cuz bad
master balancer edition
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: cmp on June 30, 2013, 05:51:25 pm
Grumbs, Don't waste your breath mate.
When you object here that some class is op, they read "buff my own class"...

He said that ranged has always been on the OP side, even after the bigger nerfs. I don't really read anything, I just see him making a fool out of himself.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Keshian on June 30, 2013, 05:59:01 pm
They didn't really think out shoot speed buffs of lower end bows - it seems they were trying to buff agility archers like 12-24 builds by compensating for the lower power draws being lower shoot speed by increasing base shoot speed of the bows they use.  However, in actual impact what you are doing is making builds of 18-21, 21-18, 24-15 even more OP because they can use those bows with exactly 4 more powerdraw than the bow requirement and will actually do more damage than a long bow at mid to long ranges and even more so in rain.  Shoot speed has a significant impact on damage the longer the range and in rain.  So basically you are making the fastest draw speed bows also do the most damage in large strategus battles (sieges most notably) where long range shots are common.  With the buffs to accuracy and shoot speed the low tier bows allow easy across the map shots with significant damage.

As an item balance its not very well conceived and as a realism its even more silly that nomad bow does more shoot speed than a long bow.  But this needs to be re-looked at for item and game balance purposes.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: XyNox on June 30, 2013, 06:33:32 pm
I'd like to know, was the shortbow planned this way ? If so I'd probably loom it.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Algarn on June 30, 2013, 06:37:57 pm
nice joke ... A silly and tiny bow makes 25 dmg ...  :lol:
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Tydeus on June 30, 2013, 07:12:25 pm
They didn't really think out shoot speed buffs of lower end bows - it seems they were trying to buff agility archers like 12-24 builds by compensating for the lower power draws being lower shoot speed by increasing base shoot speed of the bows they use.  However, in actual impact what you are doing is making builds of 18-21, 21-18, 24-15 even more OP because they can use those bows with exactly 4 more powerdraw than the bow requirement and will actually do more damage than a long bow at mid to long ranges and even more so in rain.  Shoot speed has a significant impact on damage the longer the range and in rain.  So basically you are making the fastest draw speed bows also do the most damage in large strategus battles (sieges most notably) where long range shots are common.  With the buffs to accuracy and shoot speed the low tier bows allow easy across the map shots with significant damage.

As an item balance its not very well conceived and as a realism its even more silly that nomad bow does more shoot speed than a long bow.  But this needs to be re-looked at for item and game balance purposes.
Go run some tests and record shit to prove there are bugs. Otherwise, no, a nomad/tatar won't be doing close to what a rus/longbow do in damage.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Lord_Bernie_of_Voodoo on June 30, 2013, 07:26:53 pm
As a pure polearm player with no shield skill who primarily uses 2D weapons, my build is getting a hit by this patch, but I don't think it's fair to get angry about it. I've always thought archery was too weak and it could use a buff. I tried playing on my archer alt and had my best few rounds ever on that character by, 18K , 3D. So i'd say archery is balanced with this patch but I do think the crossbow buff was not needed. I've always thought crossbow was effortless in comparison to archery because of its insane damage to go along with its accuracy. Yes, the ranged buff might take a lot of the fun out of running around killing weak little archers, but it makes the game play more of a style that fits my taste - more shields, more spears, more archers, less 2H hero's, less crossbows.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Grumbs on July 01, 2013, 12:52:49 am
He said that ranged has always been on the OP side, even after the bigger nerfs. I don't really read anything, I just see him making a fool out of himself.

Probably best not to insult community members if you aren't even reading their posts.

We need to separate single archers from groups of ranged when we look at balance. Ranged has an inherently OP ability that force multiplies based on the number of ranged in the area and their position on the map. The main thing about balancing ranged is balancing the amount that you get playing that class. Its not necessarily about the damage. Any small buff, reduction of costing, reduction of barrier to entry (looms), ability to play passively via kiting makes battle more dull to play. Your shield gets blown apart, you have to camp rather than have large melee fights. The tactics needed to win just makes the whole experience more boring and frustrating. It makes battle gameplay less fun when you have the shear volume of ranged hurling projectiles around on the map. You don't even need to take much damage for it to kill you from the large stagger alone.

I just think you're going about balancing the wrong way with ranged. Make it expensive and try to increase the skill needed to land shots. So make it something people dedicate some gold to and make it something hard to play. To me slow projectiles but accurate hits would be better, so you have to lead the shot more or aim higher than the target. The "under utilised bows" weren't used so much because Longbow and Rus bow did the job, having similar bows that require far less PD will lead to more kiting which was apparently something that was attempted to balance before. Risk vs reward that results in high reward for low risk via kiting and dealing damage without putting yourself at much risk is the wrong way to go about it imo.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: wanteds on July 01, 2013, 10:52:01 am
To me slow projectiles but accurate hits would be better, so you have to lead the shot more or aim higher than the target

+1
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: vipere on July 01, 2013, 11:14:46 am
Increasing shot speed and decreasing accuracy is the complete opposite of my skill based ranged doctrine. With high projectile speed and wide spread it really becomes point&click with the randomisation actually helping those who can't even do that correctly. Then the melee blockheads would be actually right with their "ranged takes no skill" retarding. With high accu and low shot speed it puts at least those in advantage who can anticipate the enemy movement and get the ballistic arc right. I'd actually increase accuracy across the board for all ranged(with HX getting HA penalty) but that would make them lobbyist cry.



I just think you're going about balancing the wrong way with ranged. Make it expensive and try to increase the skill needed to land shots. So make it something people dedicate some gold to and make it something hard to play. To me slow projectiles but accurate hits would be better, so you have to lead the shot more or aim higher than the target. The "under utilised bows" weren't used so much because Longbow and Rus bow did the job, having similar bows that require far less PD will lead to more kiting which was apparently something that was attempted to balance before. Risk vs reward that results in high reward for low risk via kiting and dealing damage without putting yourself at much risk is the wrong way to go about it imo.

YES
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: poikakoira on July 01, 2013, 11:57:11 am
everyone thinks archery is op couse there are more over 32 lvl archers than under 30 lvls. and 1h 2h are many still retiring in lvl 31 so its feels op. still you can top score with 1h or 2h even if arent over lvl 31 easyly, but try top score as an archer at lvl 30 example. i tryed and i didint made it :D thats why i played to lvl 35 to get even someone killed.  ps. yes i know my enklsih is nat so kood.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: woody on July 01, 2013, 01:52:28 pm
I found archer with no looms a non starter and gave up by lvl 25 after sticking 10 no effect arrows in someone who wasnt even in plate.

Got more kills with a little hammer as an archer than with the bow.

In essence if this patch has made entry level to archer easier because if so I think thats a good move.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: karasu on July 01, 2013, 02:06:54 pm
I found archer with no looms a non starter and gave up by lvl 25 after sticking 10 no effect arrows in someone who wasnt even in plate.

Got more kills with a little hammer as an archer than with the bow.

In essence if this patch has made entry level to archer easier because if so I think thats a good move.

That was pretty much their objective.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: [ptx] on July 01, 2013, 02:33:13 pm
Getting real tired of your shit, Tydeus.

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Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Strudog on July 01, 2013, 03:12:55 pm
i really cant believe they didn't nerf 1h cav damage in this patch
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: 51L3NC3R on July 01, 2013, 03:21:57 pm
this is a very innovative patch :)
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: slimpyman on July 01, 2013, 03:34:21 pm
i think the sharing cooldown with kick was great.  I also believe the little icon red to green is great.


Im very upset they nerfed throwing weapons across the board.    now stones are weaker then ever, and throwing knives, aka butter knives need some power draw. bad changes.
Title: Re: New patch first thoughts
Post by: Erasmas on July 04, 2013, 05:39:56 pm
I just got through the entire thread and died laughing in the process. Certain things never change.

it's Panos, if you read his name backwards it says "I just went full retard", what can you expect from him?