New patch first thoughts

[Lt_Anders]

http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/0-3-0-1-winners-and-losers/msg814966/#msg814966

My only comment on this.

Also, Nudges seem wonkey with a shield. You might want to look into it more.

IE, if you start a nudge JUST before someone swings(as a shielder), you take damage right there and your nudge never goes through, even if it would hit. It could be ping, or otherwise, but maybe check it out.

Seen it multiple times using the defensive nudge with shield up. Doesn't seem to matter in the other scenarios, they seem to hit and not get canceled like this.

[Thomek]

Just coming in here to remind you that these guys work for free, and if we want to see any further changes in the future, we have to keep them motivated. Being putting too much spice on your comments won't serve any purpose..

I think calm, reasonable people have a much greater chance of reaching through to the devs than shouting kids..

*Although I think a decrypted, clear information about the intention and consequences of the changes might put out some flames..

[Leshma]

The beauty of balance discussion is that you can throw a suggestion in there and be sure it will be implemented at some point in the future

I suggested archery buff and 0 slot Italian Falchion a year ago when I wanted to respec into OP level 35 archer/1h hybrid. Too bad I wasn't patient enough.

Edit: We should be glad our devs learn fast. You see, there's no such thing as perfect or even good balance. Too many variables to get it right. You know what those who are considered the best in industry when it comes to balance in video games do? (I'm talking about Blizzard Ent.) They create a illusion of perfect balance and they do it by overhauling the game every few months. That way community gets an impression that dev team works hard and trying to achieve that holy grail called perfect balance. Truth is that game is unbalanced most of the time. But when you look at from a time distance everything was indeed balanced because in two years every class got it's 3 OP months which makes all classes equally balanced for two year period.

[Legs]

I agree that bows were underpowered before but I always thought that it was intentional, so that 'archer' wouldn't become the default class for new players.

The problem I have is with all these new nudges. They're completely ridiculous. I mean, you can even nudge with a crossbow out.

Also, the regular "Bow" is OP (better than Rus bow wut) and kicks are broken. Instead of kicking you just do this weird little stumble/headbutt thing.

[Algarn]

About Panos , I want to say he's a bit dumb sometimes ... But who isn't dumb ? And Panos made goods things for this community (like successes , or an explanation of graphic options of WSE2, etc ... ). That's like if I would say : cRPG is shit because it's hard to play with a lot of experimented players or stuff like it ... I think this ban is ridiculous because Panos "insulted" XyNox , like others archers or 2handers ... Everyone knows Panos wanted a crusade against 2h and archers . So , Free Panos !

[Xhandor]

Well I appreciate the nudge for all - but the timer is a bit harsh...5 sec no nudge no kick is a bit much - I know it was done to avoid getting kick/nudge/knockdown combos - but well most of the players are not able to do that anyway...

Archer buff is great -  makes it more interesting for new players I think...

The steel-bolt buff was unnecessary I think - most of the high level players dont have to think so much about money....So the increased repairs wont hurt them that much. I guess I'll have to prepare for more oneshots now - annoying but well if there are not too many of them it is endurable.

Making the Italian Falchion 0 slots must have been a great mistake...What about the other small 1h weapons then? Cannot think of any sound reason for that decision (maybe bribing the balancer?).

[Grumbs]

Just coming in here to remind you that these guys work for free, and if we want to see any further changes in the future, we have to keep them motivated. Being putting too much spice on your comments won't serve any purpose..

I think calm, reasonable people have a much greater chance of reaching through to the devs than shouting kids..

*Although I think a decrypted, clear information about the intention and consequences of the changes might put out some flames..

They might do it for free, but there have been plenty of guys that put themselves forward for item balancing who also would do it for free. If we had a proper group of regular players that represented different parts of the playerbase we probably wouldn't have had all these ranged buffs. Look:

http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/restructured-crpg-hierarchy-positions-open!/

Do we have around 5 guys that discuss and vote on item unbalance? Or was it mostly a couple guys between themselves?

[HappyPhantom]

You gotta tell me, whats ur idea of "adapt", cause I see 2 options: one is all melee go shielder and polearm and 2h be extinct which is not what ppl want even if u dream of that, the other is sacrifice all mobility and speed and put to flesh to be more survivable like I did (0 ath, all points to flesh) which still gets 2 shotted by xbow, body shots, no headshot. So what the fuck is on your mind, please share it with us.

Try dodging.

[cmp]

They might do it for free, but there have been plenty of guys that put themselves forward for item balancing who also would do it for free. If we had a proper group of regular players that represented different parts of the playerbase we probably wouldn't have had all these ranged buffs.

Yes, definitely. What did you have in mind? 3 balancers from the two handers playerbase and 2 from polearms?

[Oberyn]

Take all the most outspoken and raging lobbyists and put them on an item balance commitee. I doubt they'll accomplish anything but at least it'll contain/divert the butthurt.

[Grumbs]

Yes, definitely. What did you have in mind? 3 balancers from the two handers playerbase and 2 from polearms?

Lol. Actually don't mind if the players are regular in battle, understand battle gameplay, play at a decent level and aren't too biased.

The way I see it M&B is a melee centric game. The ranged is almost tacked on with the depth is has. Balance around the strengths of the gameplay or at least have decent representation from a melee/cav perspective

[Tydeus]

Lol. Actually don't mind if the players are regular in battle, understand battle gameplay, play at a decent level and aren't too biased.

The way I see it M&B is a melee centric game. The ranged is almost tacked on with the depth is has. Balance around the strengths of the gameplay or at least have decent representation from a melee/cav perspective

Glad to see I fit all of the important criteria and still was the one to suggest the ranged changes(Shik suggested the 0slot throwing stuff months ago, and admittedly was the one who said we should probably address the problem now). Melee is easily my favorite part of this game, it's the most fulfilling. Yet somehow, even with me enjoying my melee 2h/polearm hero characters the most, I still made the suggestions for the majority of the ranged changes(really, most of the ranged weapons got a side-grade, the ones that were legitimate buffs, were absolutely needed). Is it more damage? Only on the 2 worst bows in the game. Is archery overall more accurate with faster projectiles? Yes, still not even close to the projectile speed or accuracy that most crossbows have though.

I call this not being biased, dunno about you though.

[Prpavi]

Yes, definitely. What did you have in mind? 3 balancers from the two handers playerbase and 2 from polearms?

How about all the balacing team agreeing to changes.

That was the idea? 4 votes or it doesn't get implemented/changed right?

[ToxicKilla]

Glad to see I fit all of the important criteria and still was the one to suggest the ranged changes(Shik suggested the 0slot throwing stuff months ago, and admittedly was the one who said we should probably address the problem now). Melee is easily my favorite part of this game, it's the most fulfilling. Yet somehow, even with me enjoying my melee 2h/polearm hero characters the most, I still made the suggestions for the majority of the ranged changes(really, most of the ranged weapons got a side-grade, the ones that were legitimate buffs, were absolutely needed). Is it more damage? Only on the 2 worst bows in the game. Is archery overall more accurate with faster projectiles? Yes, still not even close to the projectile speed or accuracy that most crossbows have though.

I call this not being biased, dunno about you though.

In my opinion increasing both projectile speed and accuracy is not the way to go. Lower projectile speed and higher accuracy makes things based more upon skill and, for me at least when I play my longbow char, I find it much more fulfilling to land hits at long distance where you must aim quite a ways above the enemy, although it'd be nice to have some way to see where your arrows are landing so you can adjust. I'm not sure if it is possible but lower projectile speed, slightly higher accuracy, some way to judge where your arrows are landing, increased damage at longer distances and perhaps a small damage/accuracy bonus when grouped with other archers may lead to archery in this game being more realistic and hopefully more fun for everyone.

[cmp]

How about all the balacing team agreeing to changes.

That was the idea? 4 votes or it doesn't get implemented/changed right?

No, it was 3/4. Now there are just 3 balancers, so it's 2/3.