New patch first thoughts

[Paul]

When the (very small) headshot buff was introduced there was also a massive nerf for hitting limbs or even shoulders added. Even a torso hit does less damage with it. The damage loss is way more severe than for melee who got more moderate multipliers there. I'm pretty sure that the average ranged damage got lowered a lot with that.

[Rebelyell]

Grumbs, Don't waste your breath mate.
When you object here that some class is op, they read "buff my own class"...

he is
mad cuz bad
master balancer edition

[cmp]

Grumbs, Don't waste your breath mate.
When you object here that some class is op, they read "buff my own class"...

He said that ranged has always been on the OP side, even after the bigger nerfs. I don't really read anything, I just see him making a fool out of himself.

[Keshian]

They didn't really think out shoot speed buffs of lower end bows - it seems they were trying to buff agility archers like 12-24 builds by compensating for the lower power draws being lower shoot speed by increasing base shoot speed of the bows they use.  However, in actual impact what you are doing is making builds of 18-21, 21-18, 24-15 even more OP because they can use those bows with exactly 4 more powerdraw than the bow requirement and will actually do more damage than a long bow at mid to long ranges and even more so in rain.  Shoot speed has a significant impact on damage the longer the range and in rain.  So basically you are making the fastest draw speed bows also do the most damage in large strategus battles (sieges most notably) where long range shots are common.  With the buffs to accuracy and shoot speed the low tier bows allow easy across the map shots with significant damage.

As an item balance its not very well conceived and as a realism its even more silly that nomad bow does more shoot speed than a long bow.  But this needs to be re-looked at for item and game balance purposes.

[XyNox]

I'd like to know, was the shortbow planned this way ? If so I'd probably loom it.

[Algarn]

nice joke ... A silly and tiny bow makes 25 dmg ... 

[Tydeus]

They didn't really think out shoot speed buffs of lower end bows - it seems they were trying to buff agility archers like 12-24 builds by compensating for the lower power draws being lower shoot speed by increasing base shoot speed of the bows they use.  However, in actual impact what you are doing is making builds of 18-21, 21-18, 24-15 even more OP because they can use those bows with exactly 4 more powerdraw than the bow requirement and will actually do more damage than a long bow at mid to long ranges and even more so in rain.  Shoot speed has a significant impact on damage the longer the range and in rain.  So basically you are making the fastest draw speed bows also do the most damage in large strategus battles (sieges most notably) where long range shots are common.  With the buffs to accuracy and shoot speed the low tier bows allow easy across the map shots with significant damage.

As an item balance its not very well conceived and as a realism its even more silly that nomad bow does more shoot speed than a long bow.  But this needs to be re-looked at for item and game balance purposes.

Go run some tests and record shit to prove there are bugs. Otherwise, no, a nomad/tatar won't be doing close to what a rus/longbow do in damage.

[Lord_Bernie_of_Voodoo]

As a pure polearm player with no shield skill who primarily uses 2D weapons, my build is getting a hit by this patch, but I don't think it's fair to get angry about it. I've always thought archery was too weak and it could use a buff. I tried playing on my archer alt and had my best few rounds ever on that character by, 18K , 3D. So i'd say archery is balanced with this patch but I do think the crossbow buff was not needed. I've always thought crossbow was effortless in comparison to archery because of its insane damage to go along with its accuracy. Yes, the ranged buff might take a lot of the fun out of running around killing weak little archers, but it makes the game play more of a style that fits my taste - more shields, more spears, more archers, less 2H hero's, less crossbows.

[Grumbs]

He said that ranged has always been on the OP side, even after the bigger nerfs. I don't really read anything, I just see him making a fool out of himself.

Probably best not to insult community members if you aren't even reading their posts.

We need to separate single archers from groups of ranged when we look at balance. Ranged has an inherently OP ability that force multiplies based on the number of ranged in the area and their position on the map. The main thing about balancing ranged is balancing the amount that you get playing that class. Its not necessarily about the damage. Any small buff, reduction of costing, reduction of barrier to entry (looms), ability to play passively via kiting makes battle more dull to play. Your shield gets blown apart, you have to camp rather than have large melee fights. The tactics needed to win just makes the whole experience more boring and frustrating. It makes battle gameplay less fun when you have the shear volume of ranged hurling projectiles around on the map. You don't even need to take much damage for it to kill you from the large stagger alone.

I just think you're going about balancing the wrong way with ranged. Make it expensive and try to increase the skill needed to land shots. So make it something people dedicate some gold to and make it something hard to play. To me slow projectiles but accurate hits would be better, so you have to lead the shot more or aim higher than the target. The "under utilised bows" weren't used so much because Longbow and Rus bow did the job, having similar bows that require far less PD will lead to more kiting which was apparently something that was attempted to balance before. Risk vs reward that results in high reward for low risk via kiting and dealing damage without putting yourself at much risk is the wrong way to go about it imo.

[wanteds]

To me slow projectiles but accurate hits would be better, so you have to lead the shot more or aim higher than the target

+1

[vipere]

Increasing shot speed and decreasing accuracy is the complete opposite of my skill based ranged doctrine. With high projectile speed and wide spread it really becomes point&click with the randomisation actually helping those who can't even do that correctly. Then the melee blockheads would be actually right with their "ranged takes no skill" retarding. With high accu and low shot speed it puts at least those in advantage who can anticipate the enemy movement and get the ballistic arc right. I'd actually increase accuracy across the board for all ranged(with HX getting HA penalty) but that would make them lobbyist cry.

I just think you're going about balancing the wrong way with ranged. Make it expensive and try to increase the skill needed to land shots. So make it something people dedicate some gold to and make it something hard to play. To me slow projectiles but accurate hits would be better, so you have to lead the shot more or aim higher than the target. The "under utilised bows" weren't used so much because Longbow and Rus bow did the job, having similar bows that require far less PD will lead to more kiting which was apparently something that was attempted to balance before. Risk vs reward that results in high reward for low risk via kiting and dealing damage without putting yourself at much risk is the wrong way to go about it imo.

YES

[poikakoira]

everyone thinks archery is op couse there are more over 32 lvl archers than under 30 lvls. and 1h 2h are many still retiring in lvl 31 so its feels op. still you can top score with 1h or 2h even if arent over lvl 31 easyly, but try top score as an archer at lvl 30 example. i tryed and i didint made it thats why i played to lvl 35 to get even someone killed.  ps. yes i know my enklsih is nat so kood.

[woody]

I found archer with no looms a non starter and gave up by lvl 25 after sticking 10 no effect arrows in someone who wasnt even in plate.

Got more kills with a little hammer as an archer than with the bow.

In essence if this patch has made entry level to archer easier because if so I think thats a good move.

[karasu]

I found archer with no looms a non starter and gave up by lvl 25 after sticking 10 no effect arrows in someone who wasnt even in plate.

Got more kills with a little hammer as an archer than with the bow.

In essence if this patch has made entry level to archer easier because if so I think thats a good move.

That was pretty much their objective.

[[ptx]]

Getting real tired of your shit, Tydeus.

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