Question: Why should you be able to dodge and attack at the same time with a ranged weapon?
Dodging cav is still easy. Just don't expect to be able to shoot and dodge at the same time.
The only one that should get jumpshooting back is throwers. Needs more love.
fuck you and your wall texts dude. :evil:The evolution of Joker:
I didn't meant that archers suppose to shoot while jumping . My point is archers still should be able to jump while pulling spring . After new update its kind a impossible because space button is becoming disabled when i try pull the spring . Sometimes i cannot measure that am i going to able shoot the cavalary before he hits me therefore i need that jumping back . After new update for archers there is only 1 chose left againist cavalary ----> hiding ( not even escaping ) .I knew exactly what you meant. Both dawing and shooting while jumping is retarded as an archer, same for crossbowmen.
(...) i cant describe how retarded is ability to shoot while jumping (...). I have archer alt and i have never even made jumpshot when that was possible, devs did right thing to remove it (...).
(...) Both dawing and shooting while jumping is retarded as an archer, same for crossbowmen.
Yeah, I agree. Devs also should remove attacking while jumping for infantry, because this also has no sense at all. If you want to attack, stay on the ground, don't jump like a monkey.
You can't put proper force to strike when you are not standing on the ground, so they should remove this sillyness from the game!
Fuck, even on my HA I still have no problem dodging enemy cav, and that's with 3 stacks of bodkin and 0 athletics. It's not archers being unable to dodge cav: It's you failing at dodging cav.
The weight increase for bows and arrows makes it damn near impossible to dodge a horse - especially if it's an Arabian. This means that not only can a shielder chase and usually catch my archer with 7 ath, a couching horseman will be almost guaranteed to kill me. Makes having athletics on an archer almost pointless now - might as well switch to 10PD longbowmen, since the arrows do so little damage and you normally can't out-run a pursuer anyway.And that arabian goes down in one hit if it's riding towards you...
Of course, if you do that, your WPF is so low that you can't hit where you're aiming regardless and woe is you if you don't have +3 bodkins.
I knew exactly what you meant. Both dawing and shooting while jumping is retarded as an archer, same for crossbowmen.
Before, you could just keep on drawing and shooting with cav charging you, no problems at all. It was ridiculous. Now, you have to dodge when someone charges you and THEN start drawing. Much more balanced and fair.
Look, it's not hard to dodge cavalry. Just don't DRAW when you try to dodge them. Ptolemy says he can't dodge a horseman with 7 athletics and bow+arrows. Bullshit. If I can dodge cav with 20 armour weight and 17 equipment weight (shield, 2 jarids and a sword) with only 6 athletics, then you should have no problem with 7 athletics. Fuck, even on my HA I still have no problem dodging enemy cav, and that's with 3 stacks of bodkin and 0 athletics. It's not archers being unable to dodge cav: It's you failing at dodging cav.
i read only 1st post, all i got to say is quit crying archers, i cant describe how retarded is ability to shoot while jumping, crawl back to matrix nerds. I have archer alt and i have never even made jumpshot when that was possible, devs did right thing to remove it, you can use legit 1h o slot weapons now, so it should be enough to make you stop crying.
Shooting while jumping, I'll concede that one. Jumping while drawing though (thus cancelling the draw) should be allowed. Right now the place that archers are at their most vulnerable to cav has been made even more vulnerable, which IMO is overkill.Totally agree with this. You should still be able to jump when you press the jump button, but it should STOP the drawing/aiming of the bow/crossbow. But the people here have been bitching about not being able to draw/aim while jumping, which is retarded.
No offense intended, but your last paragraph makes it clear to me you've never (or rarely) played a foot-archer. Archers are in a constant state of draw & aim arrow -> fire arrow -> check surroundings -> repeat. Even for the most aware archers who check their surroundings frequently there are going to be times they are standing still & vulnerable because they are focusing on aiming a shot. Depending on what stage of the shot the cav catches them, they will have a limited window to try and get out of the way, usually starting from a standing position. Oftentimes there isn't even enough time to switch to a melee weapon and downblock, so you're only hope of avoiding death is to get out of the way. In the past with archers being able to jump while drawing & being lighter & more agile you'd still have a chance at getting out of the way from incoming cav if you were paying attention. With recent archer weight & mobility changes though there's very little you can do if you're caught mid-draw other than die or hope the cav is bad.First of all. Right click cancels the shot and let's you jump or whatever. That's what I do and it works, even when caught mid-draw.
Way to completely miss the point nerd.
The way it works right now, when drawing the bow, jump is disabled. Doesn't work. The way it SHOULD work is when you are drawing and press jump, it should auto-cancel the draw, not keep you pinned to the ground. :idea:
Look, if you get caught mid-draw by a horseman then you are kind of supposed to be screwed. If you didn't manage to see them ride all the way too you or they came around a corner or whatnot, then why should they not get to hit you? It's not like you don't have the advantage at range. A horseman (or ninja or shielder or ANYTHING) that takes you by surprise so that you don't even have time to switch to melee is just playing their class right or you not being aware enough. If you get caught in melee range with your bow out it's your own fault, not the games. You should never be able to just go "nope.avi" and continue shooting while people charge you.
Look, if you get caught mid-draw by a horseman then you are kind of supposed to be screwed. If you didn't manage to see them ride all the way too you or they came around a corner or whatnot, then why should they not get to hit you? It's not like you don't have the advantage at range. A horseman (or ninja or shielder or ANYTHING) that takes you by surprise so that you don't even have time to switch to melee is just playing their class right or you not being aware enough. If you get caught in melee range with your bow out it's your own fault, not the games. You should never be able to just go "nope.avi" and continue shooting while people charge you.
Im begging you for this as archer . Pls nerf archers more . Even you can remove bows and arrows because those aren't useful anymore . I rather use pillow instead of bow . And give us marshmellows instead of arrows !
I knew exactly what you meant. Both dawing and shooting while jumping is retarded as an archer, same for crossbowmen.
Before, you could just keep on drawing and shooting with cav charging you, no problems at all. It was ridiculous. Now, you have to dodge when someone charges you and THEN start drawing. Much more balanced and fair.
Look, it's not hard to dodge cavalry. Just don't DRAW when you try to dodge them. Ptolemy says he can't dodge a horseman with 7 athletics and bow+arrows. Bullshit. If I can dodge cav with 20 armour weight and 17 equipment weight (shield, 2 jarids and a sword) with only 6 athletics, then you should have no problem with 7 athletics. Fuck, even on my HA I still have no problem dodging enemy cav, and that's with 3 stacks of bodkin and 0 athletics. It's not archers being unable to dodge cav: It's you failing at dodging cav.
drawing/shooting while jumping... possible and accurate.First of all, game balance before realism. Just because you can jump and shoot IRL doesn't mean you should be able to do it ingame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2zGnxeSbb3g#t=240s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2zGnxeSbb3g#t=240s)
how about instead of nerfing everything, you just re-implement it the way it use to be. im pretty sure every1 would agree this game was more fun about 2 years ago, before you took this mod to a cold and dank basement and raped it with no mercy
First of all, game balance before realism. Just because you can jump and shoot IRL doesn't mean you should be able to do it ingame.
Secondly, that arrow would have no chance penetrating even the lightest mail. Not much draw strength there.
How about instead of having things retardedly OP like in Native, we change things and add things and make it all better? If you want to keep your 360 jumpshot then please go play native. I'll enjoy cRPG.
Stupidest nerf...
Yes, clearly, because endless kiting was never a problem. Oh, wait..
you say balance before realism, and then say why it wouldnt work from realism.No shit Sherlock, guess why the "first of all" and "secondly" was for. 2 different arguments, 2 different reasons. Nothing stops me from telling me that realism shouldn't matter and yet STILL realism doesn't support what you want.
i hope you have the common sense to realize that jumping makes no difference in the power of the shot or drawI hope (but sadly fear that you don't) you get that jumping while drawing wont make you be able to draw as far back as you could if you were standing. You don't draw a warbow with your arm, you use your whole body to brace yourself. Jumping and shooting is possible, but only on weak bows or if you don't pull the bow the whole way.
There were better ways of stopping kiting - a better solution would have been to introduce a hard cap to WPF, say 150, which would mean that archers would have to have some points in melee. The only reason archers don't have points in melee is because if they do, their accuracy falls at longer range and if you can't shoot accurately at long range, you might as well be a thrower.Horrible solution filled with holes.
No shit Sherlock, guess why the "first of all" and "secondly" was for. 2 different arguments, 2 different reasons. Nothing stops me from telling me that realism shouldn't matter and yet STILL realism doesn't support what you want.
I hope (but sadly fear that you don't) you get that jumping while drawing wont make you be able to draw as far back as you could if you were standing. You don't draw a warbow with your arm, you use your whole body to brace yourself. Jumping and shooting is possible, but only on weak bows or if you don't pull the bow the whole way.
Horrible solution filled with holes.
What I want to say with the whole "no melee plz"-archer-attitude is, that raising the melee capabilities will not make archers stand and fight, if they don't want melee at all. They could have 10PS, 180WPF in melee, and some of them would still prefer to run, because they don't feel as entertained or even as "safe" in melee as in ranged.That is why raising melee capabilities is only half of the 'melee archer' argumentation, at least mine, the other half is mechanically preventing them from kiting.
I don't like the whole "melee archer" argumentation, and this is also where I disagree with Teeth, who usually is a very smart and reasonble guy.
drawing/shooting while jumping... possible and accurate.That shot wouldn't even penetrate my butt. Sure you can get jumpshooting back if it does one and a half damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2zGnxeSbb3g#t=240s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2zGnxeSbb3g#t=240s)
The way it works right now, when drawing the bow, jump is disabled. Doesn't work. The way it SHOULD work is when you are drawing and press jump, it should auto-cancel the draw, not keep you pinned to the ground. :idea:Press RMB and then jump?
you might want to clean the jizz stains off your monocle and watch the video again. clearly you can see he draws the bow the same from standing and while jumping(generating the same force). drawing while jumping with a warbow(rus/long bow) sounds reasonable, but horn bow and below is a different story.Since you don't get it when I say it.
That shot wouldn't even penetrate my butt. Sure you can get jumpshooting back if it does one and a half damage.
That is why raising melee capabilities is only half of the 'melee archer' argumentation, at least mine, the other half is mechanically preventing them from kiting.
My long time idea of the best way of doing this is preventing archers from reaching sprint speed with their bow out, which wouldn't affect 'strafe and shoot' and cav dodging maneuvers at all, unlike the heavy arrows that were implemented a while a go.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/how-to-make-archery-more-fun-for-everyone/msg588659/#msg588659
It is a less hard fix for kiting though, and seeing as some archers now are as willing to go as far as dropping their bow, kiting a circle around a building and then picking up their bow to shoot, it just makes me think we should ban a few archer turds so we can unnerf the others.
Yeah, I agree. Devs also should remove attacking while jumping for infantry, because this also has no sense at all. If you want to attack, stay on the ground, don't jump like a monkey.
You can't put proper force to strike when you are not standing on the ground, so they should remove this sillyness from the game!
1. monkey-jumping (im a monkey \0/ :D) is to quickly gain range.
2. ive tried swing a sword while jumping IRL, works fine. 1h stab-jumps should perhaps be nerfed, ill give you that
IRL jumping doesn't give you a free instant speed boost in any direction like it is used in warband fights.We must use vikingr mechanics.
RL people don't glide around each other like pieces of soap either, but that's not the same problem.
Yes, clearly, because endless kiting was never a problem. Oh, wait..It was a problem only for brainless heroes and people who play this game like a streetfighter arcade
It was a problem only for brainless heroes and people who play this game like a streetfighter arcade
It was a problem only for brainless heroes and people who play this game like a streetfighter arcade
It is a problem for people who don't usually die in melee. Then suddenly they are forced to kill kiting archers, and no amount of skill can help you do that.
Calling them "brainless heroes" is funny, because that supposes there's some magical effective counter to kiting. What is it ?
Siege
Siege
Calling them "brainless heroes" is funny, because that supposes there's some magical effective counter to kiting. What is it ?
It is MOTF. It simply needs to be adjusted to a better mechnism than its current state.
So up to this date there effectively was no counter. Except of... like... hiding until the MOTF pops up, which from a game design point of view concerning the flow and motivation of gameplay is a complete disaster.
Still I don't understand why all archers rather prefer to complain about nerfs instead of supporting the conquest mode idea, which would fix the real problem (instad of only trying to cure the symptoms, which hasn't helped much up to this very day, the same problems still persist) and would finally allow the devs to buff archers to a reasonable level again.
There are many ways to address the kiting "issue" that don't involve new game modes or absurd nerfs to archery. Various threads have detailed ways for it to be done, but given the limitations of the game engine and the limitation of development resources, the "easy" method of nerf has been the one chosen.
On top of that, I don't think that you can point out a single instance of an archer who has voiced an opposition to a conquest mode idea. Many, in fact, have already voiced their support. Don't try to pin a lack of one on archers :?
Remmember, the conquest mode adresses more than just kiting issue